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Posted: 9/14/2020 12:56:39 AM EDT
fuck me...


Flat-head screws on the bus bar cam out real easy; when they do they don't bite the wire, they bottom out on the top of the bar instead.
Cut that wire back, fortunately there was enough in there to get it on the bus a few positions down.  Noalox'd that shit, swapped set screws with an unused one for now.  
Going to buy another bus bar or two, ones with a robertson drive, then swap all the screws out of it.  While i'm at home depot, i'm going to buy a toner and figure out which circuit that went to... tried to chase it back, but it's buried in the panel.  I'd like to figure out what circuit that's from before I call this problem "fixed", best-guess right now is the bedroom circuit I had the air conditioner on, but it could also be the office circuit (4 computers, 3 monitors, hot-air reflow, soldering iron, couple power supplies...).  

Need to replace the rest of the breakers too.  Power back on to the house, i've shot it every hour or two now and nothing's lighting up on thermal.
Link Posted: 9/14/2020 1:09:35 AM EDT
[#1]
I'd say that was a hot one, indeed.
Link Posted: 9/14/2020 1:16:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Yeah a circuit tracer will do wonders. Ive ran into some real spaghetti over the years. That panel has some age on it
Link Posted: 9/14/2020 9:28:29 AM EDT
[#3]
The fact that the wire only overheated where it's terminated is a pretty strong clue as to its cause.

My philosophy is that whenever you have some reason for killing the power and removing the front panel, it never hurts to take a few extra minutes snugging up all the wire connections - And this is why.
Link Posted: 9/14/2020 5:31:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Looks like a Cutler Hammer breaker panel. Eaton brand is a direct swap. Except for the main disconnect, everything else appears to be an easy swap out.

And make a note inside the panel for when the grounding bars and breakers were replaced, and revisit every couple of years to re-tighten the screws. Especially on the aluminum conductors.
Link Posted: 9/14/2020 7:13:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Looks like a Cutler Hammer breaker panel. Eaton brand is a direct swap. Except for the main disconnect, everything else appears to be an easy swap out.

And make a note inside the panel for when the grounding bars and breakers were replaced, and revisit every couple of years to re-tighten the screws. Especially on the aluminum conductors.
View Quote

I've replaced a bunch of breakers already - broken handle ties, smoked, days from failing (thank you thermal camera for finding that one...!)

I do have a "log" going on the inside of the cover.  Electrician-level stuff on the inside, breaker#/amps/circuits on the outside.  I got -nothing- with this house, shortly after I bought it I spent a day going through all the circuits/outlets and figuring out what's where.  

As an EE, i'd rather work with 5v/3v3/1v8 and turn them on and off really fast in a very specific pattern, but i'm not uncomfortable doing line work.  It's not rocket surgery.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 7:25:13 PM EDT
[#6]
NEC is now requiring everything be torqued to the manufacturer specs

You shouldn't be snugging anything down periodically as you will just cause this same issue

Gotta love the thermal cameras! They come in handy
Link Posted: 9/24/2020 12:54:06 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
NEC is now requiring everything be torqued to the manufacturer specs

You shouldn't be snugging anything down periodically as you will just cause this same issue

Gotta love the thermal cameras! They come in handy
View Quote

I've never seen any electrician use a torque screw driver. I had a breaker replaced by an electrician recently, he had to do quite a bit of trouble shooting, I saw him running around with a regular screw driver working on everything.

I got a torque screw driver recently and I actually did use it on a plug for a generator to welder extension cord I made.
Link Posted: 9/24/2020 5:57:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
fuck me...
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FHcsz7J/0/a6deceda/XL/i-FHcsz7J-XL.jpg

Flat-head screws on the bus bar cam out real easy; when they do they don't bite the wire, they bottom out on the top of the bar instead.
View Quote


Say what?

They are called 'plugs.'

When used correctly and torqued (and they take a surprising amount of torque)
they work very well.
Link Posted: 9/24/2020 11:38:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I've never seen any electrician use a torque screw driver. I had a breaker replaced by an electrician recently, he had to do quite a bit of trouble shooting, I saw him running around with a regular screw driver working on everything.

I got a torque screw driver recently and I actually did use it on a plug for a generator to welder extension cord I made.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
NEC is now requiring everything be torqued to the manufacturer specs

You shouldn't be snugging anything down periodically as you will just cause this same issue

Gotta love the thermal cameras! They come in handy

I've never seen any electrician use a torque screw driver. I had a breaker replaced by an electrician recently, he had to do quite a bit of trouble shooting, I saw him running around with a regular screw driver working on everything.

I got a torque screw driver recently and I actually did use it on a plug for a generator to welder extension cord I made.


I can go take a picture of mine so you can say you saw me use one

I personally find it kinda annoying and im guilty of not using it 100% but on any new panels/breakers ill torque everything properly
Link Posted: 9/25/2020 3:27:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I can go take a picture of mine so you can say you saw me use one

I personally find it kinda annoying and im guilty of not using it 100% but on any new panels/breakers ill torque everything properly
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
NEC is now requiring everything be torqued to the manufacturer specs

You shouldn't be snugging anything down periodically as you will just cause this same issue

Gotta love the thermal cameras! They come in handy

I've never seen any electrician use a torque screw driver. I had a breaker replaced by an electrician recently, he had to do quite a bit of trouble shooting, I saw him running around with a regular screw driver working on everything.

I got a torque screw driver recently and I actually did use it on a plug for a generator to welder extension cord I made.


I can go take a picture of mine so you can say you saw me use one

I personally find it kinda annoying and im guilty of not using it 100% but on any new panels/breakers ill torque everything properly


I use a torque wrench with adapters.
Link Posted: 9/25/2020 4:47:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Say what?

They are called 'plugs.'

When used correctly and torqued (and they take a surprising amount of torque)
they work very well.
View Quote

These flathead ones i've got are made of cheese.  Really soft.
Link Posted: 9/25/2020 10:48:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

These flathead ones i've got are made of cheese.  Really soft.
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View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Say what?

They are called 'plugs.'

When used correctly and torqued (and they take a surprising amount of torque)
they work very well.

These flathead ones i've got are made of cheese.  Really soft.


How much did you save on the cheapest panel?
Link Posted: 9/26/2020 5:25:44 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
How much did you save on the cheapest panel?
View Quote
Came with the house bruh.

Worst part about all the electrical fuckery here... I bought the place from a lineman, wife is/was a high school shop teacher.  Neither knew a fucking thing about home repair or electricity.
Link Posted: 9/26/2020 6:10:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Came with the house bruh.

Worst part about all the electrical fuckery here... I bought the place from a lineman, wife is/was a high school shop teacher.  Neither knew a fucking thing about home repair or electricity.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
How much did you save on the cheapest panel?
Came with the house bruh.

Worst part about all the electrical fuckery here... I bought the place from a lineman, wife is/was a high school shop teacher.  Neither knew a fucking thing about home repair or electricity.


Swap out the panel for a decent brand.
If you increase the panel size you may get free wiring from the POCO.
Depends on what state you live in.

In many places they must pay to increase wires to support a larger panel.
You have to remember that POCO wire sizing rules are NOT covered by the NEC.

The POCO uses "distribution" wiring rules.

I have not encountered soft plugs in decent quality panels.
If you want to try you can replace them.
Kill the main and stay away from the feed lines to the main.

Moat plugs are hardened copper with tin plating.
Use a torque wench with adapters down to 1/4 inch hex.
Far more reliable than torque screwdrivers (per Lockheed Aircraft rules).



Link Posted: 9/26/2020 7:09:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Came with the house bruh.

Worst part about all the electrical fuckery here... I bought the place from a lineman, wife is/was a high school shop teacher.  Neither knew a fucking thing about home repair or electricity.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
How much did you save on the cheapest panel?
Came with the house bruh.

Worst part about all the electrical fuckery here... I bought the place from a lineman, wife is/was a high school shop teacher.  Neither knew a fucking thing about home repair or electricity.


High volt guys usually know AC theory but have no clue how to do anything near code.. lineman do not need to abide by the NEC save for a few things
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