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Posted: 6/10/2024 9:14:14 PM EDT
I am prepared to be hated for posting this but you really need to see this short video on  free trade. I explained it all in my last thread where I was lambasted as a globalist commie.

This video is dead on. More freedom is the solution, not less. Fuck the government.

What’s Not Fair about Free Trade? | 5-Minute Videos



Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:30:45 AM EDT
[#1]
I'm surprised there was no responses. GD hates free trade and competition.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:32:08 AM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
I'm surprised there was no responses. GD hates free trade and competition.
View Quote


Dude, we hate everything!
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:37:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RustedAce] [#3]
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:39:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Free trade is progressive, inhuman, and evil.

Bring back the manorial economy.
View Quote

Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:39:27 AM EDT
[#5]
We (the people) are being screwed by our own gov and others (China). Don’t be surprised if everyone just wants to shut the doors for a wile.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:39:45 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Elijah1:


Dude, we hate everything!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Elijah1:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
I'm surprised there was no responses. GD hates free trade and competition.


Dude, we hate everything!


That is a solid point there.....
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:42:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:44:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Axehund:
We (the people) are being screwed by our own gov and others (China). Don’t be surprised if everyone just wants to shut the doors for a wile.
View Quote


The general consensus here is that we should top all that off by screwing ourselves because it's good for us.

Tying the governments hands and making business more competitive is the real answer. No more business tax paid by the consumer anyway. Less regulation. More exploitation of our natural resources without over regulation.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:45:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: batmanacw] [#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Waldo:

How's that trade with China working out for us?
View Quote


Better than most people think.

They make cheap shit that makes our lives better. We make better shit that we buy when we can afford it.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:48:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:49:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Do not be unequally yoked.

Liberty is not license.

Freedom is not "just another word for nothin' left to loose".
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:50:04 AM EDT
[#12]
When countries known for exporting certain goods reach their price points through slave labor, lack of environmental controls, or lack of safety regulation, is it really free trade or is there a place for environmental/safety tariffs associated with those costs borne by domestic manufacturers?
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:51:06 AM EDT
[#13]
It’s not free when the other side has no rules and we do
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:51:16 AM EDT
[#14]
Considering the United States subsidies the world how does that work?
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:54:29 AM EDT
[#15]
The idea of free trade is good.

Allowing other countries to produce freely while tying the hands of your own country’s manufacturers with onerous regulations has been devastating.

GHWB started this ball rolling (actually, Nixon did with China trade) and he was no fan of the American people, being the first openly globalist President.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:56:04 AM EDT
[#16]
So when China offers to make all our ships, tanks, planes, guns and ammo at a subsidized price, it is a gift?

Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:58:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jollyg83] [#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Waldo:


So, financing their military is good for us? OK then.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Better than most people think.


So, financing their military is good for us? OK then.



This.  And I’ll add shuttering our factories and shipping all those jobs over seas did wonders for small town America.

ETA: perhaps those folks should have learned to code, amirite?  
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 6:59:38 AM EDT
[#18]
It’s like any other utopian ideal. Sounds good in theory.  Doesn’t work in practice.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:01:52 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jollyg83:



This.  And I’ll add shuttering our factories and shipping all those jobs over seas did wonders for small town America.

ETA: perhaps those folks should have learned to code, amirite?  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jollyg83:
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Better than most people think.


So, financing their military is good for us? OK then.



This.  And I’ll add shuttering our factories and shipping all those jobs over seas did wonders for small town America.

ETA: perhaps those folks should have learned to code, amirite?  


If a factory isn't profitable, how does keeping it open help anyone? Do we just pay people to work?

You can have full employment and nothing to eat.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:03:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By inkaybee:
It’s like any other utopian ideal. Sounds good in theory.  Doesn’t work in practice.
View Quote


Protectionism is a utopian ideal. You are correct. It leaves people in grinding poverty.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:17:54 AM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:22:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Agree, with the exception of things like missiles, war ships, and military aircraft. True national defense items in the very narrowest of definitions.  

Look what protectionism did for our auto manufacturers.  Consumers paid more for cars, while the big 3 grossly over compensated union workers.  The result was products that were not globally competitive, domestic auto employment shrunk, massive gov. subsidies, and 2 went bankrupt.  Ford merely renegotiated its debt and got bailout money.  

Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:22:27 AM EDT
[#23]
In theory,  the video is 100% correct, but...

It only looks at this from the perspective of economics and assumes reasonable trading partners.

Unfortunately,  this is only one part of the equation. The world is an ugly, jealous little place where other countries and people want what you want and are willing to sabotage trade, go to war, to achieve their goals.

When you include this in the equation, one quickly realizes that all of the economic theory needs to balance out with game theory. You need to retain critical industry,  you need to protect trade balance,  you need to be ready for war, even at the cost of your consumers benefits.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:25:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RustedAce:


Soulless Materialism has made no one’s life actually better.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Better than most people think.

They make cheap shit that makes our lives better. We make better shit that we buy when we can afford it.


Soulless Materialism has made no one’s life actually better.


Buying simple inexpensive things that make your life more enjoyable is now soulless materialism? I do not see that as the same thing at all.

What does materialism have to do with free trade and the quality of life that it brings?
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:26:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ernesto556:
Agree, with the exception of things like missiles, war ships, and military aircraft. True national defense items in the very narrowest of definitions.  

Look what protectionism did for our auto manufacturers.  Consumers paid more for cars, while the big 3 grossly over compensated union workers.  The result was products that were not globally competitive, domestic auto employment shrunk, massive gov. subsidies, and 2 went bankrupt.  Ford merely renegotiated its debt and got bailout money.  

View Quote

I'm pretty sure we already make our military hardware in house except for the chips.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:30:42 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Voland:
In theory,  the video is 100% correct, but...

It only looks at this from the perspective of economics and assumes reasonable trading partners.

Unfortunately,  this is only one part of the equation. The world is an ugly, jealous little place where other countries and people want what you want and are willing to sabotage trade, go to war, to achieve their goals.

When you include this in the equation, one quickly realizes that all of the economic theory needs to balance out with game theory. You need to retain critical industry,  you need to protect trade balance,  you need to be ready for war, even at the cost of your consumers benefits.
View Quote


You want to retain critical industry. What if those industries are not profitable to keep here? Are those industries to operate at a loss, subsidized by our taxes?

I propose creating an environment that allows them to be more profitable without government and crony capitalism tipping the scales in the favor of the biggest donor.

That is very unpopular in GD.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:32:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


If a factory isn't profitable, how does keeping it open help anyone? Do we just pay people to work?

You can have full employment and nothing to eat.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By jollyg83:
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Better than most people think.


So, financing their military is good for us? OK then.



This.  And I’ll add shuttering our factories and shipping all those jobs over seas did wonders for small town America.

ETA: perhaps those folks should have learned to code, amirite?  


If a factory isn't profitable, how does keeping it open help anyone? Do we just pay people to work?

You can have full employment and nothing to eat.


An American factory in North Carolina can’t compete against literal slave labor in China and you know it.  Thats a bullshit argument.  
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:32:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:

I'm pretty sure we already make our military hardware in house except for the chips.
View Quote

*nitrocellulose and the F35 program have entered the chat*
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:35:42 AM EDT
[#29]
At the start of WW2 we did not have hundreds of tank factories and gun factories and airplane factories.

We converted existing business to making war time materials.

It would be smart to lure a successful, profitable chip maker to the US. If left to the government and crony capitalism the chip maker would be the one with the biggest contributions and they would make substandard garbage.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:36:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jollyg83:


An American factory in North Carolina can’t compete against literal slave labor in China and you know it.  Thats a bullshit argument.  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jollyg83:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By jollyg83:
Originally Posted By Waldo:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Better than most people think.


So, financing their military is good for us? OK then.



This.  And I’ll add shuttering our factories and shipping all those jobs over seas did wonders for small town America.

ETA: perhaps those folks should have learned to code, amirite?  


If a factory isn't profitable, how does keeping it open help anyone? Do we just pay people to work?

You can have full employment and nothing to eat.


An American factory in North Carolina can’t compete against literal slave labor in China and you know it.  Thats a bullshit argument.  


It can and it does. Every day. You were lied to.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:37:13 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kiju:

*nitrocellulose and the F35 program have entered the chat*
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kiju:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:

I'm pretty sure we already make our military hardware in house except for the chips.

*nitrocellulose and the F35 program have entered the chat*


You want to blow up the F35?
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:38:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Only the black market is free trade.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:39:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tsg68] [#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


It can and it does. Every day. You were lied to.
View Quote


It doesn’t compete, it only finds a niche.  It products need to be far superior to gain more market share for it’s increased cost or it dies.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:41:15 AM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tsg68:


It doesn’t compete, it only funds a niche.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tsg68:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


It can and it does. Every day. You were lied to.


It doesn’t compete, it only funds a niche.


It does compete and win. You are just mad that they cannot overcharge the shit out of you because competition forces them to keep prices low.

Without competition our products would be over priced and low quality.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:42:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RichHead] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


You want to retain critical industry. What if those industries are not profitable to keep here? Are those industries to operate at a loss, subsidized by our taxes?

I propose creating an environment that allows them to be more profitable without government and crony capitalism tipping the scales in the favor of the biggest donor.

That is very unpopular in GD.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Voland:
In theory,  the video is 100% correct, but...

It only looks at this from the perspective of economics and assumes reasonable trading partners.

Unfortunately,  this is only one part of the equation. The world is an ugly, jealous little place where other countries and people want what you want and are willing to sabotage trade, go to war, to achieve their goals.

When you include this in the equation, one quickly realizes that all of the economic theory needs to balance out with game theory. You need to retain critical industry,  you need to protect trade balance,  you need to be ready for war, even at the cost of your consumers benefits.


You want to retain critical industry. What if those industries are not profitable to keep here? Are those industries to operate at a loss, subsidized by our taxes?

I propose creating an environment that allows them to be more profitable without government and crony capitalism tipping the scales in the favor of the biggest donor.

That is very unpopular in GD.


In theory I agree with your position. However, we do not live in a theoretical world. Those crony capitalists are well entrenched and not going anywhere.

In practice, “free trade” will never be balanced in our favor. By “our” I mean the American public. We’re not going to out lobby foreign interests, and DC would never give up their meal ticket.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:43:17 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tsg68:


It doesn’t compete, it only finds a niche.  It products need to be far superior to gain more market share for it’s increased cost or it dies.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tsg68:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


It can and it does. Every day. You were lied to.


It doesn’t compete, it only finds a niche.  It products need to be far superior to gain more market share for it’s increased cost or it dies.


Totally agree on the last part. Not sure how that is a bad thing. I love buying American when I can afford it. Tariffs take dollars out of my pocket I'd like to spend on quality where I need quality.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:45:11 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RichHead:


In theory I agree with your position. However, we do not live in a theoretical world. Those crony capitalists are well entrenched and not going anywhere.

In practice, “free trade” will never be balanced in our favor. By “our” I mean the American public. We’re not going to out lobby foreign interests, and DC would never give up their meal ticket.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RichHead:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By Voland:
In theory,  the video is 100% correct, but...

It only looks at this from the perspective of economics and assumes reasonable trading partners.

Unfortunately,  this is only one part of the equation. The world is an ugly, jealous little place where other countries and people want what you want and are willing to sabotage trade, go to war, to achieve their goals.

When you include this in the equation, one quickly realizes that all of the economic theory needs to balance out with game theory. You need to retain critical industry,  you need to protect trade balance,  you need to be ready for war, even at the cost of your consumers benefits.


You want to retain critical industry. What if those industries are not profitable to keep here? Are those industries to operate at a loss, subsidized by our taxes?

I propose creating an environment that allows them to be more profitable without government and crony capitalism tipping the scales in the favor of the biggest donor.

That is very unpopular in GD.


In theory I agree with your position. However, we do not live in a theoretical world. Those crony capitalists are well entrenched and not going anywhere.

In practice, “free trade” will never be balanced in our favor. By “our” I mean the American public. We’re not going to out lobby foreign interests, and DC would never give up their meal ticket.


We need to educate people so they vote for people like Rand Paul and Thomas Massie so we can strip them of that power. It won't happen over night.

We need to start somewhere.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:45:17 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tsg68:
Only the black market is free trade.
View Quote



During the early part of Covid during the lockdowns I created and ran a black market group.

Think ‘silk road’ but for haircuts and doordash, not drugs.

It was glorious.

Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:46:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By arowneragain:



During the early part of Covid during the lockdowns I created and ran a black market group.

Think ‘silk road’ but for haircuts and doordash, not drugs.

It was glorious.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By tsg68:
Only the black market is free trade.



During the early part of Covid during the lockdowns I created and ran a black market group.

Think ‘silk road’ but for haircuts and doordash, not drugs.

It was glorious.



That is freakin sweet!
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 7:56:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Totally agree on the last part. Not sure how that is a bad thing. I love buying American when I can afford it. Tariffs take dollars out of my pocket I'd like to spend on quality where I need quality.
View Quote



40 years ago I developed an appreciation for German optics.

Today I have a few quality pieces and a few American optics and a few Chinese things.

I, as a consumer, enjoy the options.

I wholeheartedly agree that we need more domestic defense production industry. But I don’t blame the Chinese for creating a stifling regulatory environment here. I blame Washington.

Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:08:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RustedAce] [#41]
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:17:29 AM EDT
[#42]
Free trade is a fine idea, but sooner or later somebody plays fuck-fuck games.
"A Republic, if you can keep it."
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:17:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jollyg83] [#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Totally agree on the last part. Not sure how that is a bad thing. I love buying American when I can afford it. Tariffs take dollars out of my pocket I'd like to spend on quality where I need quality.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By tsg68:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


It can and it does. Every day. You were lied to.


It doesn’t compete, it only finds a niche.  It products need to be far superior to gain more market share for it’s increased cost or it dies.


Totally agree on the last part. Not sure how that is a bad thing. I love buying American when I can afford it. Tariffs take dollars out of my pocket I'd like to spend on quality where I need quality.



And I want a supply chain that won’t be interrupted when someone gets a case of the sniffles in Shanghai.  

As was stated in another thread yesterday, we go to war in Asia, hope you like walking barefoot, because you’re not getting new boots anytime soon.  
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:17:52 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RustedAce:


Define what the "quality of life" that free trade brings is.

I bet you cant beyond material goods.

The proof that material goods do not actually bring quality of life is supremely evidenced by declining birth rates.

People are so dead inside that they are choosing to end billions of years of the progression of life to pursue trinkets.

The material bounty brought about by free trade is so horrible that its ends human life.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RustedAce:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


What does materialism have to do with free trade and the quality of life that it brings?


Define what the "quality of life" that free trade brings is.

I bet you cant beyond material goods.

The proof that material goods do not actually bring quality of life is supremely evidenced by declining birth rates.

People are so dead inside that they are choosing to end billions of years of the progression of life to pursue trinkets.

The material bounty brought about by free trade is so horrible that its ends human life.


Correlation is not causation. Your connecting things with no supporting evidence. How is my cheap shower curtain killing humanity?
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:20:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jollyg83:



And I want a supply chain that won’t be interrupted when someone gets a case of the sniffles in Shanghai.  

As was stated in another thread yesterday, we go to war in Asia, hope you like walking barefoot, because you’re not getting new boots anytime soon.  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jollyg83:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:
Originally Posted By tsg68:
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


It can and it does. Every day. You were lied to.


It doesn’t compete, it only finds a niche.  It products need to be far superior to gain more market share for it’s increased cost or it dies.


Totally agree on the last part. Not sure how that is a bad thing. I love buying American when I can afford it. Tariffs take dollars out of my pocket I'd like to spend on quality where I need quality.



And I want a supply chain that won’t be interrupted when someone gets a case of the sniffles in Shanghai.  

As was stated in another thread yesterday, we go to war in Asia, hope you like walking barefoot, because you’re not getting new boots anytime soon.  


In this thread i pointed out how industry is turned to military use during a war. We don't maintain thousands of factories idle waiting for war.

I'd like to create a business environment that attracts those boot makers back without government bullshit
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:21:41 AM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RustedAce:


Soulless Materialism has made no one’s life actually better.
View Quote


Feel free to give me all your soulless material wealth for safe disposal.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:23:11 AM EDT
[#47]
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:24:55 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By batmanacw:


Correlation is not causation. Your connecting things with no supporting evidence. How is my cheap shower curtain killing humanity?
View Quote



Exactly.

He’s conflating economic issues with spiritual/emotional issues. I’m not saying there’s no connection, but it’s complex, not direct.
Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:27:16 AM EDT
[#49]
This question hinges on if you think you are better off in an isolated but strong economy, or if you think the lower cost of goods is worth being dragged down into whatever economy the third world shitheads can manage to accomplish or not.

Link Posted: 6/11/2024 8:27:24 AM EDT
[#50]
When do our trading partners drop their barriers? When that happens we can have this conversation.
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