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Posted: 5/5/2018 12:31:21 AM EDT
failing mutual agreement, as follows:
The parties will alternate three (3) nights on and three (3) nights off, with accommodation to wifes work schedule;

The problem is, she doesn't work 3 days on 3 days off.  She's a nurse and works a 2 week schedule as follows, and here is how we've been handling the exhanges:

Sun: works, picks up child after work 7:30ish
Mon: off
Tues: off, drops off child around 7:30ish
Wed: works
Thurs: works, picks up child after work around 7:30ish
Fri: off
Sat: off
Sun: off, drops off child 7:30ish
Mon: works
Tues: works, picks up child 7:30ish
Wed: off
Thurs: off, drops off child 7:30ish
Fri: works
Sat: works
-start over

I don't understand what "accommodation to her work schedule" means.  Does it have to do with the time the exhange takes place?  Obviously we couldn't exchange at 6pm when she works till 7pm.. and should she get an 8-5, then I'd have to exchange at 5:30 or whatever...

It seems sketchy.  Am I completely at the mercy of the days she works?  OR is she at the mercy of alternating 3 days?  That would screw her totally, she'd have to put him in daycare occasionally on days she had him which could help my position for primary custody later on...

"with accommodation to her work schedule." That phrase seems like it could screw me.
I haven't signed the order yet.
Link Posted: 5/5/2018 12:39:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Tell them to rewrite it, a mutually agreement time with respect to both parties work schedules.

Also, welcome to the fucking system.
Link Posted: 5/5/2018 1:01:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Don’t sign anything without having your attorney involved. That language is vague and subject to interpretation in a way that could screw you around to her benefit.

I’m not an attorney, but I have been through an ugly divorce with contested custody issues. The most important things I learned were 1) never trust your soon-to-be ex to see things “fairly”, and 2) always have your attorney review and advise on anything you sign.
Link Posted: 5/5/2018 3:29:31 AM EDT
[#3]
Save anguish and a ton of money on a court challenge later by mapping out a visitation or shared custody schedule that at least functions now. Live by it. Have boundaries but be flexible if those boundaries are respected.

You do not want to be in constant contact and conflict trying to manage the schedule you posted here and her work schedule.

As has been said, welcome to the system.
Link Posted: 5/5/2018 3:55:42 AM EDT
[#4]
Fuckthat. It is a set schedule or I'll see you in court bitch. I have a 2/2/3 which means every other weekend. I would accept nothing less and told her to sell the property for my half if she didn't accept. Yep. I pulled the bitch card and won my kids even if I gave her the ranch. I still won
Link Posted: 5/5/2018 10:25:19 AM EDT
[#5]
Looks like the order was drafted by HER attorney,  thus, it is going to favor her.

I found the most stressful part of the divorce was coordinating visitation for the next 12 years.

Get a workable order done right the first time, even if you need to pay YOUR attorney for an hour of their time.

Trust me, it is a case of pay me now or pay me later.
Link Posted: 5/5/2018 2:33:27 PM EDT
[#6]
"I don't understand what 'accommodation to her work schedule'"

That would mean when she is working you have to care for the kid.

It is NOT drawn correctly and appears vague and not done by any attorney.
They tend to make things specific and explicit.

It should have listed her present work schedule (as you managed to do), your work schedule,  and who would care for the child on every day explicitly.
And then MAYBE something about possible changes in her work schedule.

A time for dropping off and picking up the child should be included, along with who drops the child off (or picks them up) every day.

You need to have YOUR attorney draw up this paperwork.
Yes it is going to cost you more.
At least it has a chance of being done correctly.
Link Posted: 5/6/2018 12:22:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Thanks for the responses and advice.

Funny thing is, my attorney sent me this after he'd "gone over it" and "made some changes to it..."  
He asked me to go over it and see if it looked good.  And I sent him a return email saying pretty much exactly what I've stated here in the OP.

I'm currently awaiting his response.  I'll tell him that I want this line cleaned up.
What happened was she went to jail for felony family violence.  A 60 day protective order was issued by the judge.  She's a decent loving mother outside of our relationship problems.

Under lot's of pressure from all of my immediate family, I thought it best she be allowed to see our son.  My attorney's suggestion was a rule 11 agreement, which he said could not be brought up in court as I knew that protective order gave me a position of strength at the Temporary Custody Hearing, and i expressed concern allowing her to see him hurting our position.

At the temporary custody hearing, it was literally the first thing her lawyer brought up.  And after about a half hour of testimony on her part where she told numerous lies, the judge ordered 50/50 joint managing custody, along the lines of the current rule 11 agreement.  FML.

This is the aftermath.  I would prefer alternating weeks, or hell even the alternating 3 days as written minus the "accommodation to her work schedule".  Basically I get to see my son half the time, but I'm essentially I'm her daycare while she's at work.  Very convenient for her, very inconvenient for me.

Her attorney is good, aggressive, he ran circles around my attorney at the temp custody hearing which lasted an hour.
I'd really like to fight at a final custody hearing.  Where witnesses and more testimony could be presented, up to 4 hours for each party according to my attorney.  I just don't trust my attorney enough to roll the dice.

My current dilemma is I wonder if I should hire another attorney and go for the throat.  It could work in my favor, and it could work against me.  But I feel like I'd regret it if I didn't.
Link Posted: 5/6/2018 11:36:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Do everything you can now to get a strong, straight forward agreement now, or you will be going back to court in the future.  More billable hours.

Try and address future possible issues such as one of you moving 200 miles away for a new job.

Do NOT let her use you as her day care.  Mine tried that and the judge laughed at her (not really laughed) but told her in no uncertain terms that there was no such thing as forced visitation.

The document you have now, looks like something that the two of you would write up as an informal way to implement a real order from the court.  It is temporary at most and only address her current work schedule.  Are you going back to court every time her schedule changes or your availability changes?  And what about someone moving miles away for a new job.  Who makes the drive to drop/off, pick/up the kids.

I can tell you is sucks to drive 126 mile, twice on a Friday night to pick them up and twice on a Sunday to drop them off.  Does not leave much quality time.

Get a straight forward order from the court and then work out the details between the two of you.

Be fair but firm.  Don't let her have control or you will regret it for a long time.

No, I'm not bitter. Just speaking from experience.
Link Posted: 5/6/2018 12:18:07 PM EDT
[#9]
OP, I have been there. Children need both their parents, whether they are divorced or not. If the parents can't work out an equitable custody arrangement and act civil towards each other, they add "failure at parenting" to their "failure at marriage" credentials. I don't mean to sound harsh, but nothing good ever comes from going to war with an ex spouse. You might feel a little better by temporarily getting the upper hand, but it will come back on you - count on it. Absent abuse, your son deserves to have a healthy relationship with both his parents. You not only hurt each other when you go to war, you hurt HIM. Save your fighting for when you have to fight for HIM, not for yourselves.

I sincerely wish you the best, and hope everything works out for you.
Link Posted: 5/7/2018 3:28:21 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do everything you can now to get a strong, straight forward agreement now, or you will be going back to court in the future.  More billable hours.

Try and address future possible issues such as one of you moving 200 miles away for a new job.

Do NOT let her use you as her day care.  Mine tried that and the judge laughed at her (not really laughed) but told her in no uncertain terms that there was no such thing as forced visitation.

The document you have now, looks like something that the two of you would write up as an informal way to implement a real order from the court.  It is temporary at most and only address her current work schedule.  Are you going back to court every time her schedule changes or your availability changes?  And what about someone moving miles away for a new job.  Who makes the drive to drop/off, pick/up the kids.

I can tell you is sucks to drive 126 mile, twice on a Friday night to pick them up and twice on a Sunday to drop them off.  Does not leave much quality time.

Get a straight forward order from the court and then work out the details between the two of you.

Be fair but firm.  Don't let her have control or you will regret it for a long time.

No, I'm not bitter. Just speaking from experience.
View Quote
From what I understand, currently, per the temporary order, custody is 50/50 joint managing.  My attorney tell me that because it's 50/50 neither of us will be able to leave the county, due to the fact that our son won't be able to attend two different schools.  She get's to say where he lives and goes to school.

We are not on speaking terms whatsoever, i mean i literally don't even make eye contact when she picks him up.  It is ordered that drop off and pick up happen at my house.  So there won't be any working things out between ourselves.

I don't trust her as far as I can throw her.  She's a liar and a cheater, and in court at the temp custody hearing she lied her ass off up there on the stand under oath.
This order we have now, is a temporary custody order.

I'm fine here in the town i live in, all my family is here, my business, and friends.
She has no one, only her twin brother, who's a homeless drug dealer that lives in Colorado.

I know that eventually she's gonna want to move, she hates it here.  She's living with my sister now.  So I see myself back in court eventually.

So, i told my lawyer i want alternating three days, adding in an exchange time, and also, AXE THE "with accommodation to her work schedule"
I'll see what he says, and I'll get some clarification on the geography limitations and have him make sure those are very specific as well.

This whole thing is a soup sandwich.
Link Posted: 5/7/2018 3:41:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
OP, I have been there. Children need both their parents, whether they are divorced or not. If the parents can't work out an equitable custody arrangement and act civil towards each other, they add "failure at parenting" to their "failure at marriage" credentials. I don't mean to sound harsh, but nothing good ever comes from going to war with an ex spouse. You might feel a little better by temporarily getting the upper hand, but it will come back on you - count on it. Absent abuse, your son deserves to have a healthy relationship with both his parents. You not only hurt each other when you go to war, you hurt HIM. Save your fighting for when you have to fight for HIM, not for yourselves.

I sincerely wish you the best, and hope everything works out for you.
View Quote
Thanks for this.

I'm just doing the best I can, and my wife has told me things like, you'll never see him again, or I'll fix it where you'll never see him again.  She's bitter, emotional, spiteful, and is doing everything in her power to make my life hell.  She was recently arrested for felony family violence, which she perpetrated on numerous occasions in front of our son.  I always tried to remove him and myself from the situation, by going outside to see the horses, it really tore me up man, every-time I'd see him go from smiling and dancing to scared and crying because of her screaming and violence.  Often times she'd try to block me in to keep me from leaving, often times she'd steal my phone and keys.

this temp order is pretty much the judge making the rule 11 agreement the temp custody agreement.  My wife was under a 60 day protective order but i believe outside of our relationship problems she loves him and i didn't want to keep him from her, that idea never crossed my mind.  Hence filing the rule 11 to supercede the protective order.

Man when I type my mind goes so much faster than my fingers so I apologize if this seems like it doesn't make sense.  I'm more of a talk in person or on the phone kinda guy.
Link Posted: 5/7/2018 4:55:31 AM EDT
[#12]
Sounds similar to my divorce op.  I managed to get full custody of my son.  She does get visitation every other weekend from Friday 7pm to Sunday 7pm.  Her lawyer managed to force a nightly phone call in the mix which is completely inconvenient.
Link Posted: 5/7/2018 6:42:52 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks for this.

I'm just doing the best I can, and my wife has told me things like, you'll never see him again, or I'll fix it where you'll never see him again.  She's bitter, emotional, spiteful, and is doing everything in her power to make my life hell.  She was recently arrested for felony family violence, which she perpetrated on numerous occasions in front of our son.  I always tried to remove him and myself from the situation, by going outside to see the horses, it really tore me up man, every-time I'd see him go from smiling and dancing to scared and crying because of her screaming and violence.  Often times she'd try to block me in to keep me from leaving, often times she'd steal my phone and keys.

this temp order is pretty much the judge making the rule 11 agreement the temp custody agreement.  My wife was under a 60 day protective order but i believe outside of our relationship problems she loves him and i didn't want to keep him from her, that idea never crossed my mind.  Hence filing the rule 11 to supercede the protective order.

Man when I type my mind goes so much faster than my fingers so I apologize if this seems like it doesn't make sense.  I'm more of a talk in person or on the phone kinda guy.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
OP, I have been there. Children need both their parents, whether they are divorced or not. If the parents can't work out an equitable custody arrangement and act civil towards each other, they add "failure at parenting" to their "failure at marriage" credentials. I don't mean to sound harsh, but nothing good ever comes from going to war with an ex spouse. You might feel a little better by temporarily getting the upper hand, but it will come back on you - count on it. Absent abuse, your son deserves to have a healthy relationship with both his parents. You not only hurt each other when you go to war, you hurt HIM. Save your fighting for when you have to fight for HIM, not for yourselves.

I sincerely wish you the best, and hope everything works out for you.
Thanks for this.

I'm just doing the best I can, and my wife has told me things like, you'll never see him again, or I'll fix it where you'll never see him again.  She's bitter, emotional, spiteful, and is doing everything in her power to make my life hell.  She was recently arrested for felony family violence, which she perpetrated on numerous occasions in front of our son.  I always tried to remove him and myself from the situation, by going outside to see the horses, it really tore me up man, every-time I'd see him go from smiling and dancing to scared and crying because of her screaming and violence.  Often times she'd try to block me in to keep me from leaving, often times she'd steal my phone and keys.

this temp order is pretty much the judge making the rule 11 agreement the temp custody agreement.  My wife was under a 60 day protective order but i believe outside of our relationship problems she loves him and i didn't want to keep him from her, that idea never crossed my mind.  Hence filing the rule 11 to supercede the protective order.

Man when I type my mind goes so much faster than my fingers so I apologize if this seems like it doesn't make sense.  I'm more of a talk in person or on the phone kinda guy.
If you want, feel free to PM me any questions, or if you just need to cuss at someone other than your ex-wife.  
Link Posted: 5/7/2018 10:46:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Based upon what has been provided, I agree that more clarification is needed as to what exactly that phrase means.  However, it is possible that there is something in the larger agreement that helps to provide context/clarification.

For example, you discuss this clause in regard to the pickup and drop off times, but the quoted section does not specify times for either pick up or drop off. If the times are set out elsewhere in the agreement, then the language might be intended to change those times based upon mom's work schedule like you discuss.  However, even if there is something in the rest of the agreement that helps to provide some context, I would still ask that the provision be clarified or that language be added to make it clear what is intended.  While it may cost more money at this juncture, getting it clarified now can save you a lot of money, time, and aggravation in the future because it would remove a possible point of contention/argument that would likely result in everyone having to go back to court.
Link Posted: 5/7/2018 11:47:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From what I understand, currently, per the temporary order, custody is 50/50 joint managing.  My attorney tell me that because it's 50/50 neither of us will be able to leave the county, due to the fact that our son won't be able to attend two different schools.  She get's to say where he lives and goes to school.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From what I understand, currently, per the temporary order, custody is 50/50 joint managing.  My attorney tell me that because it's 50/50 neither of us will be able to leave the county, due to the fact that our son won't be able to attend two different schools.  She get's to say where he lives and goes to school.


Quoted:
I'm just doing the best I can, and my wife has told me things like, you'll never see him again, or I'll fix it where you'll never see him again.

Given these I very much hope that relocation has been addressed - as in, the other parent gets primary custody, the parent moving away gets a long-distance visitation schedule, the parent that moved covers the travel costs, etc.  If not she could move and by the time you track her down, she files a new CS order in her new state based on the child residing there for 6+ months and you get long-distance visitation.
Link Posted: 5/9/2018 11:57:31 AM EDT
[#16]
If your lawyer reviewed that this is the point to fire them and get someone that handle divorcees and child custody agreements.
Link Posted: 12/1/2018 6:48:40 AM EDT
[#17]
I know it's been some time but I thought I'd update this topic with the final outcome.

Final agreement is 50/50 custody with her as "primary"; alternating weeks where the child will be dropped off by the parent in possession each Sunday evening at 7:30pm.  She will get him the entire month of June each summer and I will have July.  We are geographically restricted to this county.   This is good for me as my family and business are here.

As primary, she gets to decide where he goes to school, and where he gets to "live", a moot point IMO being that either way he will be with me 50% of the time.

The only child support awarded was in my favor in that she has to maintain medical insurance on him.

I was able to achieve this by leveraging an affidavit of non prosecution for her felony family violence charge.  My lawyer was a total stooge and worthless, her attorney drew up all paperwork.

My attorney's name was William B. Doonan if you're interested in an attorney to AVOID.
Hers was Charles Myers and he was excellent.  If anyone is going to get a divorce in the Midland Odessa TX area, I would go with him in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 12/1/2018 11:07:08 AM EDT
[#18]
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