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Posted: 2/18/2019 8:51:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is surprisingly little fabrication involved with a LS swap On the wiring side it’s all plug and play and you can get everything to work as factory no extra gauges or anything crazy traction control still works everything |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 8:59:39 PM EDT
[#2]
It's obvious the car was built to a specific price point. More power = turbo (or larger engine), more weight, larger brakes, more tire, ect. All that stuff costs money and flies in the face of a lightweight rwd coupe. One can argue all they want about parts bin this and that but it's clear what the objective was with this car. Additionally at some point it overlaps with the WRX.
I'm not going to say it's the most amazing car ever because it isn't. It is however, pretty good for the money. V8 swaps are still fairly expensive. I think about the cheapest ones I've seen was around $10k. Add more money if you want everything to work (ac, abs, trac cont., ect) |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 9:04:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 240SX was an unfinished dog. The SILVIA was good.... because it came with a 200hp or more turbocharged engine. See the difference? Look at the numbers produced in the US as time went on and Nissan refused to actually improve the problems in any serious fashion. Underpowered truck engines don't make a sports car/coupe/whatever. Toyota managed to bring the 3SGTE (?) in the MR2 Turbo (and overpriced the fuck out of it killing the platform but that is another story). Your comparison to the Civic means the 86 needs another 88 horsepower. That Corolla for the time was decently quick. Aside from getting rid of a reliable toyota engine for a BMW basket case in the making I haven't followed much of the |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 9:05:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is surprisingly little fabrication involved with a LS swap On the wiring side it’s all plug and play and you can get everything to work as factory no extra gauges or anything crazy traction control still works everything |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 9:07:53 PM EDT
[#5]
People actually saying you need some greater amount of HP to be "drivable in regular traffic" really underscores how absurd the hate is for this car.
And sure, Subaru could have added all kinds of performance improvements -- it just wouldn't be a $25K car anymore. And the WRX does not cost $25K, contrary to what some people believe. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 9:16:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 240SX was an unfinished dog. The SILVIA was good.... because it came with a 200hp or more turbocharged engine. See the difference? Look at the numbers produced in the US as time went on and Nissan refused to actually improve the problems in any serious fashion. Underpowered truck engines don't make a sports car/coupe/whatever. Toyota managed to bring the 3SGTE (?) in the MR2 Turbo (and overpriced the fuck out of it killing the platform but that is another story). Your comparison to the Civic means the 86 needs another 88 horsepower. That Corolla for the time was decently quick. Aside from getting rid of a reliable toyota engine for a BMW basket case in the making I haven't followed much of the Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: 
The Silvia was only in production for 30 years. That’s clearly a failure. 
Economic conditions in Japan combined with global regulatory conditions in various nations made it hard to bring cars like this to market for a long time. With the possible exception of the Subaru engine, the 86 is pretty much exactly what a car called 86 should be. Speaking of sports car names back from the dead, have you seen the two engine options for the MkV Supra? Those horsepower numbers and price tags paint an interesting picture relative to the 86... Your comparison to the Civic means the 86 needs another 88 horsepower. That Corolla for the time was decently quick. Aside from getting rid of a reliable toyota engine for a BMW basket case in the making I haven't followed much of the Horsepower isn’t really a requirement for something to be a sports car, and there are many examples throughout history that are “underpowered.” I’m not the one comparing the 86 to the Civic Si, but the 86 is faster... |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 9:18:58 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's obvious the car was built to a specific price point. More power = turbo (or larger engine), more weight, larger brakes, more tire, ect. All that stuff costs money and flies in the face of a lightweight rwd coupe. One can argue all they want about parts bin this and that but it's clear what the objective was with this car. Additionally at some point it overlaps with the WRX. I'm not going to say it's the most amazing car ever because it isn't. It is however, pretty good for the money. V8 swaps are still fairly expensive. I think about the cheapest ones I've seen was around $10k. Add more money if you want everything to work (ac, abs, trac cont., ect) Think about the Jag F-Type if it wasn't a Jag and was more stripped down vs. luxury sport. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 9:30:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To be fair, plenty of people are already adding big brake kits and better wheels & tire combos with the factory engine. There also seem to be a number of people who are running some mild power mods with and without those other upgrades who are doing fine. I think your over estimating the need to upgrade the rest of the car for another 50-100 hp/tq. That power level ought to put it into "not getting smoked by a minivan but still not going to challenge a V8 muscle car anytime soon" territory while still keeping everything else reasonable. Especially when we're talking factory cars, the cost for them to design a 1" bigger rotor or 1" wider wheel isn't going to make a huge difference like it would to buy that stuff aftermarket, after all the Mustang and Camaro have those power levels and come in nearly the same cost and do it while offering more gadgety interior crap that always tacks on money. I know they don't handle as well, but they were never designed to, and there isn't any crazy suspension tech in a BRZ/FRS so it's not like all of the cost of it comes from there. Think about the Jag F-Type if it wasn't a Jag and was more stripped down vs. luxury sport. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 9:38:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm speaking from an oem perspective, I guess we'll just agree to disagree. A factory Ecoboost Mustang has more power (and weight, causing the need for more brakes) at the same price point. The component costs of the better suspension on the BRZ/FRS aren't causing it to have to skimp on power to meet that pricepoint. The cost difference to a OEM between slightly larger brakes/stiffer springs/etc is negligible as long as the technology level is consistent. Going to electronic suspension or something would cause a price increase, for example. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 9:39:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some folks move past high school stoplight drag racing and just want a car that’s fun to drive. If you can’t fathom such a thought then don’t buy one. It’s quite simple. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: (Sigh).. Some solid mental gymnastics to get here. I post the fact that my swagger wagon in all its bloated soccer mom glory, on run flat tires, fucking wastes the what could have been an awesome car. It's a beautiful look. I'm a huge if the styling. But when Vans and Camrys can lay waste...... Something's wrong. So the result of my observation/experience....... I'm not a good driver.......mmmkkkayy...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtwJvgPJ9xw
At least when it comes to stop light dragging 87s....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGXzlRoNtHU
Right...... Let's have a street car and not have fun. I think the boomers have that covered plenty with their vettes. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 9:41:21 PM EDT
[#11]
I get the argument about not upping engine power because the supporting components would have to be beefed up and that would run counter to the light weight sport car set up.
But the BRZ isn't lightweight to start with. It's the power of a miata with 3-400 extra pounds. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:05:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get the argument about not upping engine power because the supporting components would have to be beefed up and that would run counter to the light weight sport car set up. But the BRZ isn't lightweight to start with. It's the power of a miata with 3-400 extra pounds. That 300 pounds gets you a roof, a back seat, and more space while still being ~800 pounds lighter than the EcoBoost Mustang. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:19:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The 240SX was on the market here for 10 years, and the Japanese recession of the ‘90s pretty much killed the development of it and most other sports cars there. The 240SX had a cult following then and it still does today. Good surviving examples are hard to find and they command a premium. Horsepower isn’t really a requirement for something to be a sports car, and there are many examples throughout history that are “underpowered.” I’m not the one comparing the 86 to the Civic Si, but the 86 is faster... You most certainly did bring the Civic into the discussion. And the rest of the import crowd. The 86 had 33% more horsepower then the Civic Si of the same time. Todays 86 has less and with lower ability to modify then it's civic rival. Look I get where you come from. I just vehemently disagree. And it shows in the sales numbers, magazine tests, and drivers (including in this thread). |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:25:01 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get the argument about not upping engine power because the supporting components would have to be beefed up and that would run counter to the light weight sport car set up. But the BRZ isn't lightweight to start with. It's the power of a miata with 3-400 extra pounds. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:31:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it isn't just weight, but also cost. In fact, I assume it is primarily cost, and that upgrading the engine and drivetrain, etc. would push it into a whole other cost bracket. At $25K it doesn't have much competition among new cars. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:32:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it isn't just weight, but also cost. In fact, I assume it is primarily cost, and that upgrading the engine and drivetrain, etc. would push it into a whole other cost bracket. At $25K it doesn't have much competition among new cars. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:38:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm coming at it from that perspective as well. I only mentioned the aftermarket mods people are doing to counter the idea "All that stuff costs money and flies in the face of a lightweight rwd coupe". A factory Ecoboost Mustang has more power (and weight, causing the need for more brakes) at the same price point. The component costs of the better suspension on the BRZ/FRS aren't causing it to have to skimp on power to meet that pricepoint. The cost difference to a OEM between slightly larger brakes/stiffer springs/etc is negligible as long as the technology level is consistent. Going to electronic suspension or something would cause a price increase, for example. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:43:39 PM EDT
[#18]
I commute 100 miles a day in one of the two AE86s that I have had for years. The sr5 still has the single cam carb engine that made a whopping 87 hp when new. I have no issues keeping up with modern traffic or passing on the highway at 80+ mph.
The other car is a gts with a 3SGE and 6 speed. Is it faster.... yes, but the sr5 gets drove more because it its just more fun to drive and you can and do use 100% of the available power with out getting out of hand. I plan for a GT86 in the spring and most likely will keep bone stock just like my sr5 has stayed for the 24 years i have been its caretaker.. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:50:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I commute 100 miles a day in one of the two AE86s that I have had for years. The sr5 still has the single cam carb engine that made a whopping 87 hp when new. I have no issues keeping up with modern traffic or passing on the highway at 80+ mph. The other car is a gts with a 3SGE and 6 speed. Is it faster.... yes, but the sr5 gets drove more because it its just more fun to drive and you can and do use 100% of the available power with out getting out of hand. I plan for a GT86 in the spring and most likely will keep bone stock just like my sr5 has stayed for the 24 years i have been its caretaker.. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:56:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The market killed it state side because it was a dog. Hence why it continues in Japan and Australia as the S15 and we ended with the S14. Emissions killed the SR power plant iirc after that. The "cult following" does what... MORE POWER SCOTTY! GIVE IT A LS MOTOR. 1990s steel and time with shit resale junked more, then some guys found it was a swap chassis and people ripped the shitty KA engines out and grabbed something with oompf. Same as I did. You most certainly did bring the Civic into the discussion. And the rest of the import crowd. The 86 had 33% more horsepower then the Civic Si of the same time. Todays 86 has less and with lower ability to modify then it's civic rival. Look I get where you come from. I just vehemently disagree. And it shows in the sales numbers, magazine tests, and drivers (including in this thread). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The 240SX was on the market here for 10 years, and the Japanese recession of the ‘90s pretty much killed the development of it and most other sports cars there. The 240SX had a cult following then and it still does today. Good surviving examples are hard to find and they command a premium. Horsepower isn’t really a requirement for something to be a sports car, and there are many examples throughout history that are “underpowered.” I’m not the one comparing the 86 to the Civic Si, but the 86 is faster... You most certainly did bring the Civic into the discussion. And the rest of the import crowd. The 86 had 33% more horsepower then the Civic Si of the same time. Todays 86 has less and with lower ability to modify then it's civic rival. Look I get where you come from. I just vehemently disagree. And it shows in the sales numbers, magazine tests, and drivers (including in this thread). Nearly every review I’ve seen of a pro driver in an 86 variant was positive. Some out there have bad feedback on it, but every vehicle has its critics. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:57:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Would have to email or pm pics. As i cannot seem to post them here... I should probably buy a membership.
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Posted: 2/18/2019 10:59:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only it is the same price as the WRX which has more drivetrain and a better engine. Literally all they need to do it slap on WRX brakes and engine and call it good ?? |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 11:00:13 PM EDT
[#23]
I had one for all of 5 months. The only case of buyers regret I ever had a day after buying a car. I sold it for a loss and bought a used 370z manual tranny. Life is mo' better since then.
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Posted: 2/18/2019 11:10:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please show me where I mentioned the Civic prior to that post. Nearly every review I’ve seen of a pro driver in an 86 variant was positive. Some out there have bad feedback on it, but every vehicle has its critics. Almost every single review I have seen said that the 86 needs 50 or more horsepower. Most kits are adding around 60 to 100 (again, iirc) and people seem very satisfied at that level. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 11:12:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My buddy got his engine out of a donor Camaro, I forget which mullet year, but it had the 5.7l. You could probably buy a crashed car and part the rest out, to offset a lot of the cost. I don't know much about the complexity of the tuning portion but I seem to remember that being a hurdle for him. He's since been working on some other weak links like swapping in a Tremec T5. I remember CA smog laws, what a headache. Dyno load smog check every 2 years, etc. I don't have advice on that. You can see what I did by my profile location. We don't even need cats here, not even a visual inspection when registering a used vehicle. It was a bit of a surprise when I first moved here. The only reason I haven't undertaken an ls3 swap is cost. Around 20 grand... at that point, I'd have more in the brz than if I bought an SS sedan(the new car I've been drooling over.) Yeah it'll be more fun in the brz, though the resale isn't shit. And the ss sedan holds my little kids more comfortably. |
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Posted: 2/18/2019 11:19:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IDK, it seems like a ton of effort went into getting the BRZ engine low and toward the back, and I'm not so sure the WRX version with more HP would swap right in w/o other changes/compromises. Though clearly they could have added more power somehow. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 12:17:06 AM EDT
[#27]
The Miata and BRZ really bring out the ARF GD who gotta justify their own purchases of other vehicles. Drive what you want and have fun.
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Posted: 2/19/2019 1:00:23 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, but there are many mustang permetations, which together, sell in considerable more quantities than the frs/brz. Just a guess, but the margins are likely very small for the Eco boost in an effort to get people in the door. Just my opinion, and you know what they say about those. Even if it is, I think it shows the importance of getting the buyers in the door and having a varied lineup. If they had a base BRZ/FRS and a reasonably priced performance trim with a 50-100hp bump I would bet money that the performance trim would be the trim everybody wanted(simply based on my test drive and multiple owner reviews where they say it needs more power. Heck, every review of the TS is wondering why the hell STI didn't touch the engine). The Mustang GT is 10k more than the Ecoboost and if you ask for advice on which to buy you would get an overwhelming response of "the GT" simply due to the power. Those models have a 150 hp gap and are within 200lbs of each other. Ford only increased the brakes by about 1". You can get the standard GT brakes on the ecoboost with the performance package for $2,500, which includes a LSD, wheels, tires, suspension components, and interior pieces. I highly doubt that Ford makes the exact same profit on a Mustang GT vs an Ecoboost so there is no way all 10k of that difference is in the cost of the suspension/brakes/engine when they can offer all those components in the performance package for 2.5k (and there's no way they're losing money there). If Subaru/Toyota offered a performance trim using the WRX's engine, or even just made it that way from the get go you wouldn't see a huge rise in cost, they could probably go up 2-3k to keep the same margin, assuming that wouldn't strain production. The problem is it would likely steal WRX sales, which at this point are probably more profitable. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 7:17:01 AM EDT
[#29]
Anyone been able to compare the BRZ /86 to the new Civic Si?
I’ve been looking into the Si coupes, Miata, and mainly the 86 because there are more Yota dealers than Subaru in my parts. Biggest problem I’m running into is that the damn things are so hard to find, especially the Miata and 86 in a manual, so I can’t even test drive any. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 8:04:00 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone been able to compare the BRZ /86 to the new Civic Si? I’ve been looking into the Si coupes, Miata, and mainly the 86 because there are more Yota dealers than Subaru in my parts. Biggest problem I’m running into is that the damn things are so hard to find, especially the Miata and 86 in a manual, so I can’t even test drive any. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 1:55:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You brought up the old 86 horsepower. I showed how it was more then the hot civic. Now, barely breaking even or less with lower torque. Comparison and context matter. Almost every single review I have seen said that the 86 needs 50 or more horsepower. Most kits are adding around 60 to 100 (again, iirc) and people seem very satisfied at that level. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Please show me where I mentioned the Civic prior to that post. Nearly every review I’ve seen of a pro driver in an 86 variant was positive. Some out there have bad feedback on it, but every vehicle has its critics. Almost every single review I have seen said that the 86 needs 50 or more horsepower. Most kits are adding around 60 to 100 (again, iirc) and people seem very satisfied at that level. Have you considered the possibility that comparison and context don't matter? At least not in the sense you think they do? You're looking at this from a strictly quantitative view. Horsepower, torque, lap times, etc. Your perspective seems to be that, as time progresses, everything should just get faster and faster, and you're ignoring the qualitative aspects. You want context? Here's some context: After a never-ending automotive arms race, we live in a world where cars have hilariously powerful engines, DCTs that change gear in the blink of an eye, 10 speed transmissions, launch control, torque vectoring, computer controlled electromagnetic suspension systems that adjust hundreds of times per second, and all kinds of other crazy stuff. All of that is cool, but it's also a bit much for the average enthusiast. That stuff can barely be used to a fraction of its potential on public roads, and I'd question how many people can actually get the most out of it on a track. If someone wants a back to basics simple, lightweight, RWD sports car that's precise, tossable, and forgiving, the options on dealership lots today are the Miata, the 86/BRZ, and... that's it. Most of what I have seen indicates the Miata is a better car, but it just isn't usable for most people. I seem to remember Randy Pobst, Jeremy Clarkson, Chris Harris, and Jay Leno all giving the 86/BRZ very positive reviews. The one guy I can think of that has an opinion I tend to respect that criticizes this car is Jack Baruth. His criticism is centered around the engine, but he seems less bothered by the overall power and more annoyed by the "personality" of the engine itself. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 2:00:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IDK, it seems like a ton of effort went into getting the BRZ engine low and toward the back, and I'm not so sure the WRX version with more HP would swap right in w/o other changes/compromises. Though clearly they could have added more power somehow. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Only it is the same price as the WRX which has more drivetrain and a better engine. Literally all they need to do it slap on WRX brakes and engine and call it good ?? Some people would rather have an upright engine and/or forced induction, but there are some trade-offs, and CoG was Subaru's priority. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 2:19:26 PM EDT
[#33]
I watched a couple of review vids for some of the supercharger kits....that looks exactly like what I would have expected/wanted power wise from the factory.
Not crazy but still fun. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 2:49:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone been able to compare the BRZ /86 to the new Civic Si? I’ve been looking into the Si coupes, Miata, and mainly the 86 because there are more Yota dealers than Subaru in my parts. Biggest problem I’m running into is that the damn things are so hard to find, especially the Miata and 86 in a manual, so I can’t even test drive any. The Civic Si is significantly different because it's FWD and it's available in sedan configurations. FWD is the preferred layout for most practical/utilitarian purposes. It's cheaper to build, it's more efficient, and the drivetrain doesn't intrude on passenger and cargo space the way RWD drivetrains do. FWD passenger compartments and trunks don't have to accommodate for transmissions, drive shafts, and rear ends. The flip side is significant differences in the way vehicles behave. With FWD sending both power and steering inputs to the same tires, there tend to be conflicts between the two. Most notably, this means torque steer and understeer as well as front tires breaking traction with throttle and steering inputs that wouldn't have that result in RWD applications. There's also a huge difference in weight distribution. With FWD cars, the weigh of all of the the mechanical systems is up front. With RWD cars, that weight is distributed more evenly down the length of the vehicle changing the balance and the behavior of the car. If you were looking at sedans or hatchbacks, I would say FWD might have some meaningful practical advantages for you, but I think it's harder to make that case with a coupe. The numbers I've seen suggest the cars you are looking at are pretty similar in terms of straight line speed, but you will notice a world of difference in the way the cars feel out on the road. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 7:36:54 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a strict no Mitsubishi policy, but that would probably work well. If I was going 4 cylinder I think the SR20DET with some mild mods would be a good known quantity option. In reality a newer design like fords 2.3L Ecoboost or Jag's 2L turbo they use in the F-Type would probably be amazing but a huge PITA. Something like a NA V6 or that LS shown earlier might need a bit more fab but work easier overall. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Custom hood + 4G63T =  ? |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 11:44:23 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ugh, screw the new stuff, the old stuff is a lot more mod friendly. The SR20 is an aluminum block if I recall correctly, so it would be lighter weight. I can't recall if it's closed deck or not The thing I love about 4G63 though is the amount of abuse it can take, which in part is due to the iron block. If you only want 300-350whp the SR20 would be fine though. My T28/T4 SR was a hoot but there are better picks. |
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Posted: 2/19/2019 11:49:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, in other words, I DIDN'T bring up the Civic. Have you considered the possibility that comparison and context don't matter? At least not in the sense you think they do? You're looking at this from a strictly quantitative view. Horsepower, torque, lap times, etc. Your perspective seems to be that, as time progresses, everything should just get faster and faster, and you're ignoring the qualitative aspects. You want context? Here's some context: After a never-ending automotive arms race, we live in a world where cars have hilariously powerful engines, DCTs that change gear in the blink of an eye, 10 speed transmissions, launch control, torque vectoring, computer controlled electromagnetic suspension systems that adjust hundreds of times per second, and all kinds of other crazy stuff. All of that is cool, but it's also a bit much for the average enthusiast. That stuff can barely be used to a fraction of its potential on public roads, and I'd question how many people can actually get the most out of it on a track. If someone wants a back to basics simple, lightweight, RWD sports car that's precise, tossable, and forgiving, the options on dealership lots today are the Miata, the 86/BRZ, and... that's it. Most of what I have seen indicates the Miata is a better car, but it just isn't usable for most people. I seem to remember Randy Pobst, Jeremy Clarkson, Chris Harris, and Jay Leno all giving the 86/BRZ very positive reviews. The one guy I can think of that has an opinion I tend to respect that criticizes this car is Jack Baruth. His criticism is centered around the engine, but he seems less bothered by the overall power and more annoyed by the "personality" of the engine itself. BRZ entry level analog sports coupe is a good idea. (Though personally it should be better priced considering again the the WRX has more components and costs the same). We disagree on: 200hp is enough. I'm too old to rev my engine to kingdom come to pass a 6.0 half ton when my Vette does it at 3500 rpm. I dont have a problem with the BRZ. I appreciate the single plug engine harness. I appreciate small light cars. I'm just saying that giving it some oomph to go with the chassis would make it stellar and Toyoburu missed the opportunity to really hit it out of the park. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 7:59:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The SR is an old horse now. Plus it was never officially imported so parts are an issue. Fords 2.3 out of the Mustang is your best bet now. My T28/T4 SR was a hoot but there are better picks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Ugh, screw the new stuff, the old stuff is a lot more mod friendly. The SR20 is an aluminum block if I recall correctly, so it would be lighter weight. I can't recall if it's closed deck or not The thing I love about 4G63 though is the amount of abuse it can take, which in part is due to the iron block. If you only want 300-350whp the SR20 would be fine though. My T28/T4 SR was a hoot but there are better picks. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:05:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We agree on: BRZ entry level analog sports coupe is a good idea. (Though personally it should be better priced considering again the the WRX has more components and costs the same). We disagree on: 200hp is enough. I'm too old to rev my engine to kingdom come to pass a 6.0 half ton when my Vette does it at 3500 rpm. I dont have a problem with the BRZ. I appreciate the single plug engine harness. I appreciate small light cars. I'm just saying that giving it some oomph to go with the chassis would make it stellar and Toyoburu missed the opportunity to really hit it out of the park. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:21:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you too old to hit redline in your vette too? Of course I have never done that. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:23:36 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hitting redline in the Vette means violating every speed limit in the state. Of course I have never done that. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:27:30 AM EDT
[#42]
Or, just buy a used low mileage C6 Corvette instead of a 86 and engine swap. Either results in a small excellent handling car with a great power to weight ratio. One is just a lot more reliable and less trouble to acquire. Even if you say 86+supercharger kit... a low mileage 2017 86 + goodies is probably going to cost as much or more than the bone stock C6.
Just buy the C6 and skip all the other hot rodding B.S. unless you find that fun. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:30:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
My car is falling apart. I was thinking about buying a used pickup, but I don't want to pay the ridiculous amounts of money the current market demands. I always wanted to own some kind of truck and a cheap sports car eventually. I decided to look up used Scion FRSs and they seem to be available for very reasonable prices at very low mileages. Any problems with them? I've never driven a "fun" car before. How fun are they? Will a rifle case capable of holding an M1 Garand fit in the trunk? As others have mentioned, if you want something with nice interior, a nice ride, a good commuter car, it may not be the car for you. As you can imagine, it's terribly unsafe in the wet/snow. The reason so many of these get wrecked is because parents think it's a good cheap car to buy for their teenage driver. Giving this car to a teenager is a terrible idea. If you want something even lighter, the new Miata is pretty nutz. I now drive a BMW 135 (which feels like a tank compared to the FR-S). |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:30:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s the beauty of the 200 HP BRZ/86. You can hit redline and rip through the gears on the city streets. Really use the engine like it was designed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hitting redline in the Vette means violating every speed limit in the state. Of course I have never done that. The only way you're legally pushing a miata or 86 in the corners to their limits or anywhere near is on a track. On an auto X course a prepped miata and or 86 may keep up or beat a similarly skilled driver of a vett but on a actual track or street the vett will obliterate either. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:32:00 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: B.S. and like posted earlier pushing it in the corners still means breaking the speed limit by a lot but with the added bonus of less room for error correction. Tree's don't give much, and the nearly instant stop has killed plenty. The only way you're legally pushing a miata or 86 in the corners to their limits or anywhere near is on a track. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:33:06 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looked into the WRX as well, but isn't it in the top 10 of cars people regret buying? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I sell Them. Sold many. Do The WRX. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:34:42 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have tons of fun in mine at around 10 mph over through the turns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: B.S. and like posted earlier pushing it in the corners still means breaking the speed limit by a lot but with the added bonus of less room for error correction. Tree's don't give much, and the nearly instant stop has killed plenty. The only way you're legally pushing a miata or 86 in the corners to their limits or anywhere near is on a track. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:37:46 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10mph huh... sure that's not an exaggeration? Humans can easily run 10mph.... |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:41:36 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no fun in AWD cars. They are not "driver" cars. No donuts, burn outs, spinning tires, drifting, steering with the gas pedal, etc. The WRX is quick at launch, handles great on a curve, and is totally fucking boring to drive. (I had a 2015). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I sell Them. Sold many. Do The WRX. They're boring because you can't screw around without really screwing around. But I promise you they definitely can put a smile on your face, be it stop light or corners. |
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Posted: 2/20/2019 8:44:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s the beauty of the 200 HP BRZ/86. You can hit redline and rip through the gears on the city streets. Really use the engine like it was designed. More torque then 2 BRZs. |
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