I hit 20 years in the military soon and have been looking at jobs.  I know relatively little about the civilian flying job market.  Guys I know retire into the dod civilian world, go to an aircraft manufacturer, or stop flying altogether.   I am not chasing pay, I’m looking for a job that I enjoy.

After retirement I will live in Alabama.  No preference between airplanes or helicopters as long as I enjoy the job.  I have a lot of helicopter hours and relatively few airplane hours(400+ airplane hours, mostly military single engine).  Have commercial airplane/helicopter and I meet atp requirements.  

Airlines - I’m undecided.  From what you guys say here it sounds like I can walk into a regional and meet the minimums for a major that flies internationally within a year or two - how likely is it to get a job at a major airline flying internationally if you just meet their minimums?  Is international easier or harder to get than domestic at an airline?  

I found that helicopter ems flying pays better than I thought - “$82-90k base pay” at the nearest location surprised me.  Closest base is 90 minute 1-way drive and they do 7/7 or 14/14, so if I came home every day after a 12 hour shift I’d have 9 hours at home which would be spent sleeping.  Easy job to get but I wouldn’t like the hours spent driving(I would prefer to travel for 7 or 14 days at a time for a job that I would enjoy more).  

I applied at haverfield a month ago and haven’t heard anything.  I won’t give up on them unless they tell me to go away because the work looks very enjoyable to me.  I’ve never met anybody that worked there though - anybody know anything at all about them?  

I have an offer for one job that I would enjoy, but it is part time(very part time - about one week per month of work) and therefore the pay is acceptable only when stacked on top of my retirement pay.  The 3+ weeks each month off work is very attractive though.  I could do this plus a local part time non-flying job but I am hesitant to become a part-time pilot.  

I looked into the tuna boat thing and it looked like an awesome adventure, but I’m not single enough to do it.  

I considered the overseas dod contractor lifestyle but I value my time too much now to be gone from home that much despite the pay.  

What other options are out there for somebody who enjoys unusual flying work and is unwilling to move?

The right corporate job can be amazing

Yeah, this.  Buddy of mine is a corporate pilot for a family - owned construction company.  Sure, he loses some holidays, but he doesn't work a lot of hours.   He's got a seriously sweet gig.

Regionals are paying 100k with 80k signing bonus. I know you said money wasn’t your motivation, but it doesn’t hurt to get paid well for a part time job. Don’t know your age, but if you have time to move to the majors, captains can clear multiples of that. Seniority becomes your friend.

My stick buddy from flight school is a pilot for a large company everybody has heard of.  He flies their helicopters around the NYC area and small jets domestically and he loves it.  I don’t know of any such jobs that would be local for me.  



I’m later 40s, never seriously thought about airlines but now that my time is approaching and the regional pay is acceptable I find myself considering it.  I know little about airlines and have plenty of questions, but I intend to apply to a couple next week after I get my medical.


I checked into switching to the air guard rather than retiring because fighters would be fun, but the Alabama air guard is switching aircraft and isn’t taking new pilots.  They also weren’t interested in a dumb army pilot like me.  

There’s lots of crop dusting locally and it looks like fun, but the low pay and chemicals scare me away.

Know a guy who went to PHI a few years ago but he only lasted about a year, said it got boring and monotonous very quickly.  He only made it about 1.5 years before quitting.

https://rampartaviation.com/careers/

Casa 212

don't fall out

The question you're really going to have to answer here is an incredibly individual and subjective metric.  What is it that you enjoy?

Personally, when I left the military I also left behind the metric of seeking enjoyment in my job.  For the entirety of my AF career, my job was the majority stake-holder in determining what I did, where I lived, etc., and my hobbies, family, and other personal interests all took a back seat to being a military officer.  And, as we all know, the military is a job without limits that will swell in size to occupy whatever amount of time, effort, and love you will allow it to take.

So, in my second career, I've chosen a job (major airline) that allows me to prioritize things however I want. If I want to work a lot and make a lot of money, then I can.  If I want to indulge in family time, pursuit of hobbies, or side interests, and fly less (and make less money), I can choose to do that, too.

Flying for the airlines doesn't remotely provide the same level of professional satisfaction that my former career as a military aviator did, but to me that's entirely the point. Yeah, it is boring, but as soon as I step off the airplane I'm done with the job. I'm finding my life satisfaction in finally having the time and money to pursue the interests that I never had the time or ability to do while I was working for Uncle Sam. I'm finding life satisfaction in tending to the home fires of my marriage and my kids in a way that I was never able to do given the 24/365 nature of being a military officer.

Ultimately it is about your priorities...and only you can answer that question.

If I had a second life timeline where were looking for an exciting flying job, personally I'd go pursue one of the USFS air attack contractor jobs. Either the SEAT single engine air tanker path, or the lead-in gigs for the multi-engine firebombers.

Or, if I wanted some adventure I'd head up to Alaska and see if I could fly for Everts on their C-46s or DC-6s.

I just got back from 4 weeks in Puerto Rico, France and Italy with my family…on the company’s dime.  Depending on where there are corporate jobs everywhere.  Your low fixed wing time and not ATP will be a hindrance but not complete roadblock in corporate

You question about domestic vs international flying, it is all based on seniority and what you can hold. Mostly international is more senior, but new hires have gone to international aircraft when there were more openings than pilots wanting them. Like the .mil it is all about timing.

Once you are there for a while, as mudeagle mentioned, you can prioritize what you want to do by bidding the aircraft and the seat and the base and then the trips all based on your seniority if you can hold what you want.

Some chase the money, I always chased the time off and the seniority to control my life and stayed senior in what I was doing.

I know it is different for everybody.  My goal is to ensure I don't miss out on something I didn't even know existed or that I could do!  

I see the airline websites and they typically list 70-ish hours guaranteed minimum.  Obviously that is flight hours?  Can you opt to fly less than that?  If they pay you for at least 70 won't they want you to fly 70 hours?  Or is it is guaranteed they will give you 70 hours a month but you can opt (and get paid) for fewer?  How many days a month is a typical airline minimum schedule?  I will live with easy access to direct flights to the eastern hubs so I assume an airline commute should be pretty easy?  

I'm glad you admit that.  I know plenty of people who say airline flying is the supreme accomplishment in a flying career - none of them are at an airline!  I only know a couple guys who went to airlines and they say what you do - it fits their lifestyle, pays well, and is fairly low stress.  

Exciting is the wrong word - maybe satisfying?  I've realized I prefer the clear delineation between work/home, so the airlines keep popping up in my field of view.

I know a guy that flies corporate jets, in a contract type service.  He likes it.  When he needs time he just takes it and they schedule someone else.  He is about 55, married and spends a day or two away from home a week.

That's actually referring to guaranteed hours of pay scheduled.  How that works out compared to block hours flown is going to vary substantially between different airlines and different seniority at different airlines.  My objective is to maximize the differential between credit hours paid and block hours flown.  

At a regional, that's probably going to be closer to 1:1 than it will be at the major airlines or even the ACMI cargo lines.


The latter. Again, it depends on the airline and the contract as to if and how many trips you can drop during a month.  At my airline, it is possible to drop every trip and fly nothing and be paid nothing. At the regional I was at, there was a minimum number of credit hours per month you had to fly in order to keep your health care, your retirement contribution, etc.


Again, varies by the airline and even the seniority at each particular airline.  At the regionals, it will be something like 11 minimum days off per month as a new guy.  I'm in the bottom half of the seniority list at my company, and I've averaged 15 days off per month for several years.  More senior guys can do substantially better than that.


You're going to get lots of different opinions about commuting, as it also is a highly subjective metric. I think a single-leg commute with multiple opportunities per day is pretty easy, yes....but I value living where I'm living, and accept that I'm sacrificing some scheduling flexibility and opportunities to maximize days off and opportunities to pick up flying by not living where I'm based. To me, that is more than offset by allowing my wife and kids to live where they want after two decades of following my ass around Uncle Sam's towns all over the country and world.

Care to share what regional that was?  

I’m not moving so I’d have no option but to commute - a single leg doesn’t seem like a deal breaker.  I have direct flights to Atlanta, charlotte, dfw, Chicago, and DC at the airport 15 minutes away from where I’ll be living.  If one wanted to work out of Atlanta(because it’s closest) which regionals would be the best to apply to?  Google tells me some regionals that have multiples of the above bases are psa, envoy, piedmont, and endeavor.  Does a regional assign you to a location when you are offered a job or after you are done training?  

I feel like I’m in the same boat you were - I’ve grown tired of work controlling my life 24-7.  Thanks for the info!

Compass. Gone to the great terminal in the sky now, but was a pretty fun place to be (for a regional).


Here's a map of airline pilot domiciles as of 8 months ago. I'm not really sure what of these has changed since then, but it gives you a quick look at who is where.

How domiciles worked when I was at CPZ was you bid for airplanes, seats, and bases on your first day in indoc, and then there was a system bid every month or two. Every airline is different with respect to frequency of system bids, though.
Attached File


Always keep in mind that regionals, especially, are prone to open and close bases in response to their contracts with mainline carriers. So, you can't really hang your hat on being at one particular base for any extended period of time...it might be gone next month!

I had a 8 on 7 off schedule at a fractional plus two 22 day vacations a year. Did a regional for a short time but it wasn’t for me. That was over 20 years ago and the culture with them appears to be changing for the better. Current gig is a single pilot corporate jet. I work 6-8 days a month and fly less than 150 hours a year. Have been considering picking up some contract work. Have been offered $1200 a day to yank gear as a SIC for 3-4 days a month. I know a full time contract pilot that works out of Atlanta. Something to consider once you get a type or two. You can make your own schedule doing that.

When you “bid” are the results based on merit (performance in training or similar) or is it random/subjective/seniority based?  

It seems I’m lucky since my local airport has direct flights to so many hubs?  Id be ok with any 1-leg commute, Atlanta is just the closest by far.  

There was a thread in here some months ago that I can’t find now - it was discussed that there are no mandatory obligations to stay at airlines anymore.  I’d like to clarify - absent a non-mandatory agreement to stay you can quit if they move you to a base you don’t want to commute to even if it’s the day after you finish training?  That still surprises me.  

PSA appears to have the most domiciles I can get to on a single leg, seems like a good place to start!
Thanks for the info, much more useful than reading random info online!  

Unless you are applying for a position as an instructor or a supervisor, there is nothing at the airlines that is based on merit, or anything else but seniority.

The great Ernie Gann wrote in Fate Is The Hunter:

Life flight Pilots - Every single life flight pilot I know (3 lol), has given up on it and gone to the airlines.  They just grew tired of the 7 on/7 off lifestyle.  They also lost interest in flying at 0300 on NVGs, in shit weather into a back country road with power lines and their spotter being some nurse that was "trained" to call out obstacles.  That and they realized that their top out pay was a decent amount less than what most 2nd year airline FOs were making.  


Corporate - Can't speak to it because I've never done it.  I turned down an invite because I didn't think it was fair to burden a smaller department with my commitments to the Air Guard.  I just didn't want guys having to pick up the slack every time I deployed for 4-5 months and went TDY for 2 weeks, a few times a year.  Of note, a buddy just left that department for DAL because he was tired of only have 4 guaranteed days off a month.  Most months he had significantly more days off than that, but they just weren't guaranteed thus he couldn't be out of town or have solid plans.  However, I have another buddy who got a corporate/.gov contractor gig that is a true unicorn.  Dude gets paid damn good money to work very little...almost seems unreal lol.  So happy for that dude, couldn't have happened to a better guy.


Airlines - Not everyones cup of tea and not at all what I had planned on doing (I really wanted corporate gig).  Alas, I found myself at an airline that allows me to sit short call from my house/hangar/heck even flying my plane occasionally lol (just gotta stay around 500 ft to get a signal).  Hands down the best gig I could have ever fallen into and I couldn't be happier.  Like MudEagle, I don't get "fulfillment" out of the airline gig (or work in general) like I did flying fighters in the military.  Since I've left full time ANG and gone to the airline, I have shifted to a viewpoint of getting fulfillment in what I do outside of work.  My goal now is to make as much as I can while working the fewest days I can lol.  Now, I get to spend lots of time with my family, visiting friends, taking vacations and flying my own planes (insert your hobby here).  As an example, since 1Jun, I've put on my airline uniform a grand total of 15 times and only slept in hotels 6 nights...a few of those were only because I willingly picked up overtime trips.  As it looks right now, I likely won't fly more than a day or two (no overnights) the rest of the month...and that's if they even use me at all.  Now I am "on call" more than that, but living in base, I spend lots of that time with my family/friends and fly my Stearman around the country side.  


My advice if you do go to the airlines, only go to one that will allow you drive to work and sit reserve from your house.  Second, get senior and stay senior (especially of top pay doesn't matter as much to you)...I spent many years junior, but now that I've spent few years in the top 5-25%, I can tell you that it's a whole different ball game.  I get the days off I want and I get the vacation I want.  If I actually bid a line, I get the trips I want.  If the GF says, lets plan a trip 6 months, I say book it...no worries about getting the days off, I just know I'll get it.  There is a lot of power and freedom in that!  Finally, if you're going to go to the airlines, do it now!  Don't screw around thinking it over to long...seniority is king and everyone is hiring like gangbusters.  Get in now because you can always quit later.  However, you can't get that lost seniority back.


Best of luck in whatever you decide.  I wish you the best and happy hunting!

Finally got somebody at Haverfield on the phone - they currently have no openings but the HR lady said I was "really qualified" so she would forward my resume to the chief pilot anyway.  Not holding my breath.

Got my FAA medical yesterday and submitted a resume to a regional airline today.  

Been networking and discovered a few good paying helicopter jobs that all sound like a lot of fun but they're all relatively small companies and only one might be hiring.  It seems high-paying helicopter jobs are not hurting for people - I suspect that's a byproduct of the small number of jobs and so many experienced helicopter pilots leaving the military.  

The only sure thing I've found so far is a (very) part time helicopter job.  It averages 1 week/month of work and is a 3 hour drive, but they have a free place to stay while working and the pay rate is very good.


I looked into the closest civil medevac job - 90 minute commute and 12 hour shifts on 7/7.  So if I spent 3 hours of 12 hours off commuting I'd go to sleep as soon as I got home and leave as soon as I woke up.  The real killer was that each 7 day shift alternated between day and night.  I know only one guy who has been doing it more than a year or two and it's because he lives very close to the aircraft, his only kid is away in college, and his wife is an O6.  The juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze for me on these ems jobs.

Well…
If you want work more closely related to your military experience. More exciting is what I am reading into it..?

There are private DoD contractors with plenty of work for people with lots of hours and significant experience across multiple aircraft doing multiple interesting things. Some covert. Some crews even wear military type clothing and some of the aircraft have separate military transponders for landing at military bases.
But..you are going to have to travel. A lot.  Period.

Same as the private, private sector…(billionaires)
Unless you find a private gig for a local billionaire that stays home 87% of the time an interesting aviation job flying means travel.
Local type & potentially interesting: PD, sheriff’s office, Fish and Game, local TV station, local air ambulance.
Then there are govt. 3 letter agencies..? Of course corporate aviation.

Jump right into the Majors.   Fedex, UPS, Delta, AA, UA, SW, probably in that order.  Get on the pilot forums and truly learn and understand the respective contracts.   Contract and seniority, is everything.
The pilots here don’t like to talk about pay, but it’s not just the money.., more importantly, it’s your TIME.    IOW, if you’re in a job where you could make $400k, you’ll always have the option to cut your work by 25% and get by on 300k.  
The advice you’ll get here isn’t always the best.

Would be near the top of the list but I don't have the ATP or airplane hours all the majors say they require.  
If I do a regional it would be with the intent of it being a path to go to a major.

Why not apply at the freight haulers anyway ?  It cost nothing to apply

Unless you're at that airline where a newhire makes $900K/year.

Help a brother out…. Which ones don’t require an atp?  I’m not very knowledgeable in the airplane pilot job world.  I just rechecked a few I know of - Kalitta and omni still require atp.  

Apparently atlas has a deal where they’ll get your atp for you if you meet the atp requirements, I may try that out.  Their website says cfi is required though - I don’t have an airplane cfi but am a paperwork drill away from helicopter cfii…  

My suggestion is.......

Get to a MAJOR AIRLINE as soon as you can......

Avoid Kalleta, etc.....

There are resources on the internet for this. Do some google search's....

I think the NAVY guy's have this the best. They do years flying helo's, then take an assignment back to fly/teach in the T-34, get some fixed wing time, and then get out.

So, in my humble opinion, get your ATP.....ASAP.....Find a "PUPPY" Mill that will get your a multi engine checkout, and get your Multi ATP.

The ATP is an advanced instrument checkride.

Now that's getting you closer to competitive. As a military aviator, I do believe you're not subject to the 1,500 limit (But, hopefully you have more hours than that).

Then, start applying to every commuter/regional out there. I'd even fire off App's to the Major's. As the pilot "SHORTAGE" finally take full effect (Kit Darby was RIGHT, after all these years!).

The regional's are throwing big money at folks right now. Signing bonuses, yearly bonuses, etc.....And, while that's good, you need to look down the road and figure out where you want to be...

As far as the Major's go, the current FLAVOR of the month is FedEx and UPS. They seem to have the best contract's in the industry right now. The key question is, CAN you deal with a LOT of back side of the clock flying. Both airlines do a lot of daytime flying, but they still do a majority at night.

As for the rest, there's good and bad. I work for a Major (HA.....More like Large Regional airline based in the SE Part of the USA! I'll let you figure that one out).......Our contract negotiations have been drug out for about 3 years, with no resolution in sight.  

As it's been said, you can pick time off or money. And as you go along you can move that scale whichever way you want.....

Everything is based on SENIORITY.....The sooner you get to where you want to be, the better off you are......

And, yes, with things being the way they are, we are having people no-show for class because they got an offer from a different airline. Or they quit during training for the same reason. Or even quit a year or two on property....After two year's it would have to be an exceptional offer to leave, but, that's up to you.

As far as my background, I started as a WOC, got my bar with a dot, flew in the Army for 4 years. I got out, and joined the Air Force. I tried to get into the Guard/Reserve, but I was coming up on an age limit, so active duty was the way I had to go.

I got out of the Air Force, and got hired by a scumbag freight place, and worked there for 6 months. I interviewed a 3 major airlines, and got hired at the last one. I've been here for almost 25 years. I just bid and was awarded an  International Wide Body Captain position.

Having done all that, I still miss flying helicopters.....The most fun flying jobs I had were in the Huey......

Hope this helps......

Gene

I'd agree with most everything Bill said above, except I'd rearrange the airline choices based on which one allows me to live in base and/or have the easiest commute.  If you don't live in a base, then arguably FDX/UPS are a better option due to their front/back end DH options.  However, if I lived in DFW, I'd target AAL...if I lived in DEN, I'd target UAL.  Living in base is like an entirely different career.  Being able to sit short call from home and being available for last minute overtime trips can be quite lucrative in money, but more importantly time at home.

Also, I too work for the "regional airline in the Southwest," that Halogene mentioned, yet I was flying WB international (330, not 7ER) at 2 years on property and could still be doing that if I had chosen to do so.  Don't let that moniker scare you into a commute just in the name of seeking a WB.

If you’re not going to the RTAG convention in October, you’re wrong. Every aviation company that is worth a damn is going to be there. From Helo, to airlines, to 135’s to cargo. Everyone is there. It’s a great place for you to go to get info and direction. And it’s free for us vets.

Since I had no clue what RTAG was, and you didn't put a link or an explanation......

RTAG

Here you go......

Yep, my Dream sheet didn't age well at all.  Amazing how everything can change in an instant.   Might I add, make your Pick, Based on where you actually want to Live.   I moved to the Jr, base, and not a day goes by, I don’t dream of escaping.    I know I’m spoiled though.  As much as I want to move, I still don’t want to commute.

Any Updates Morgan?

I had a reply typed up but deleted it.  I'm making an aviation safe thread!  
I'll have an update in about two weeks(when my retirement decision is due).  

I read up on the rtag convention - Unsure if I can/will go.  I was stationed with Sabiston once in a previous life - didn't know it was his thing!

Biggest thing I'm doing now is getting my free (mil-comp) helicopter CFII - I'll get to a FSDO before the year is up to add it and a few type ratings.
Got a first class medical, renewed my passport, and paid for that radiotelephone certificate that apparently everybody needs.  Any other things I can/should be doing now?  

Do you have applications in with all the Majors, plus Spirit and Jetblue?

Do you have friends putting in recommendation letters?

Have you decided what priority/order you will place them in?

All the majors plus spirit and JetBlue say they require an ATP.  I don’t have ATP.  
I assume when the application website asks “do you have atp” and I check no that no human will ever see my application.  

I put a few references on my resume.  If my friend bob the bricklayer writes a letter to the ceo of delta will it help me out?  
I know a guy at delta and a guy at ups, that’s it for airline pilot friends for me.  

I figured I’d do a 1-hop commute for airlines(most hubs in the eastern US).  I don’t know anything specific enough to be able to choose one regional airline over another.  
I applied to PSA about a month ago and mesa last week.  Had a couple friends smarter than me look at the letter/resume I made and they said it was fine.  Crickets so far - doesn’t seem like they really need people that badly.  

I’m not even really sure the airlines are where I want to work.  Again, I’d do a major but I don’t have the atp or airplane hours they want.  

Am I supposed to apply to delta even though I don’t have an atp or the 1000 airplane hours they say are required?

A lot of the regionals are focusing on people with prior 121 time and not messing with non-121 time having people for the time being.

I see tons of airlines with "high time" or "previous 121 experience" positions.  Are there a bunch of furloughed people they can hire to save training money or something?  

I got on the rtag facebook group and check it out about once a week - there was a "I got a job offer with 200 hours" guy recently.  You don't even have your airplane commercial or meet atp requirements at 200 airplane hours.  I also read about how people don't even show up on the first day of training because they got another offer they like better.

I easily meet the regional requirements, but nothing from PSA after about a month.  I listed April 2023 availability when I applied for PSA a month ago and listed Feb 2023 when I applied for Mesa last week, will dates that far out push you to the bottom of the pile?  If they're waiting until March to call me I won't be able to do much other than laugh.

To be clear, I'm not sold on the airlines.  Hours and seniority are all anybody cares about - the application process makes me feel like a commodity.  Will they call the guy with 87 night hours before they call me with 86 night hours?  Assuming your piloting skill meets some minimum standard then it seems that little else matters.  

Just a guess, but everyone is so short of pilots that (I imagine) they are concentrating on people who have closer available dates than you. I could be completely wrong though.

I’ve heard good things about RTAG, and flown with/given OE to rotor guys. Most are going to a regional and then jumping to ULCC/LCC/Major from there.

I think your lack of ATP will be an issue at most airlines besides regionals.

ETA

And absolutely pilots are a commodity. Get used to it in the airline world, if that’s the way you go.

Go to a regional, they'll give you your ATP and a new type rating.  Get some 121 time and you'll be moving on in months, not years.

Can’t you go to a flight school to knock out your ATP?  That’s what I would do.   Time, is far more important than money at this point.  

The AMR regionals might not be too bad, with the huge raise they got.
Otherwise, the LCC’s minus allegiant.    

Yes, Network with your pilot buddies.   The hours and experience don’t matter nearly as much as networking.   Put the applications in, anyway, and update frequently.   Apparently, HR likes to see this.  It’s a game.
Be aggressive.  You are competing against smart, highly motivated people, and it’s the most aggressive self promoters who succeed. It took me a long while to appreciate this truism, but if you’re a laid back sort of person, you have to adopt a different mindset, temporarily.

All pro Pilots are a commodity.   If you get the right Corporate job, it can sometimes feel like you’re Family, but you’re still just an expensive commodity at the end of the day.

I considered that - figured it would be close to $10k for the training, written, a few hours to rent a plane and learn it, and then take the checkride.  
I still wouldn’t have the airplane hours required for a major airline that requires it and the regionals don’t require an atp, so I figured it would at most look good on a resume.  

I considered getting my single engine atp since I can do it for very little money but people smarter than me said don’t bother as it would be zero benefit.  

It’s official now - retiring in the spring.  Don’t know what I’m going to do but thankfully I have a bit of time and plenty of options!

I got a job offer from one regional without any sort of interview which seems…. different than I expected.  The other wants an interview.  I’m not sold on the regional airline thing.

An EMS operator just opened a base nearby - it’s close, the pay is decent, and they’re hiring.  Two major turn offs for this job though so it’s my last option.  

The part time helicopter job is a sure thing but the pay is barely adequate only when stacked on my retirement pay - It’s less than 3 months per year of work.

I think it’s going to come down to either getting a civilian job where I work now or the verbal “we can use you” from an airplane place I found here.  I figure each is about 80% chance of success.  Each option has one big downside but many positives.  

I’m on the road for work so I couldn’t go to the rtag convention.  Have good internet here though and was able to watch some of the presentations and learned a bit more about the airlines.  
Any new suggestions?  

Are you going to retire as a CW4?

You are going to have a safety net with your retirement and tricare benefits.

You have to get your ATP. Several people have said this already because it is the key to the big leagues.

As many have also said, corporate gigs can be a jackpot.

Yes w4 with 20 years, it is really nice that I don’t have to count pennies when considering a job.  I never imagined I would stay 20 years in the military, but I made my Army path so far away from the mainstream that it’s very tolerable.  The Army may suck sometimes but it’s been good for me.

So, in no specific order:

I talked to Phoenix Air after their recruiting video was posted here and they said they’d hire me.  It’s a lot of travel time though(50% travel) and the wife would kill me(I’ve been gone for over 8 of my 20 years in the military).  I asked about part time work but they weren’t interested in that.  It matches my personality, pay is better than I would’ve guessed, and I want to do it.  But I also want to stay married!  So it’s not out but has moved down my list a bit.  

I’ve ruled out the civilian medevac because I don’t like the pay/enjoyment ratio or the schedule.

The high paying civilian chopper jobs I know of are still unobtanium due to the small number of them - the ones I know of aren’t hiring.  

I looked into both fbi and dea flying.  Dea in particular sounded like my cup of tea and I would do it except that it would require moving as there are no dea aircraft in my city.  FYSA, the dea takes agents with zero flight time and makes them pilots.  I’m told if you join and have any significant flight experience it’s a virtual guarantee you can go to a flying job within a year.  That blew my mind!  They have around 150 airplanes and helicopters of all kinds spread all across the country.  

My last (I think) big question:
Any input on airlines while being in the guard/reserve?  I’ve read countless places online how people leverage guard duty to make their airline schedule more desirable.  Come to find out I know a guy who did this at united - he was in the reserves and pursued lots of reserve flying while he was junior in seniority(ie getting the least desirable airline schedule) and as he got more seniority at the airline he flew less frequently in the reserves.  In short, it sounds like each day of guard duty means an airline won’t schedule you for that day as well as the previous and next day.  If the above is accurate it makes the airlines much more appealing to me.  I’ve read about the terrible scheduling of junior regional FOs - is this a feasible way to eat less of the poo sandwich while being the new guy?

Seniority has been moving so fast that dropping .mil leave really doesn't really help you out so much after getting off first year pay.  Obviously, YMMV, and maybe in an instance where you live in your guard/reserve base and commute to your airline.  For someone like me who lives in airline base and commutes to the reserve gig, it became not worth it financially pretty quick.  Once I upgraded to the left seat, I just don't even look anymore (or tell my wife) how much I'm dropping to go drill.

I’m looking at it for better scheduling(ie. Less undesirable work during the low seniority FO phase), not for maximizing pay.  

I would commute to either(1-3 hour drive for guard/reserve depending on what unit I choose and a single leg airline commute to base).

If I were to go regional FO, then captain, then to a major FO isn’t that three stints of starting over as the least senior guy doing all the holiday or otherwise undesirable flights?  That’s my big airline sticking point.

Ah, well...you may have a cush reserve gig, but my easiest day flying with the reserves is still more effort than flying any trip at my airline, not even looking at pay.  But, then, I don't get to fly a 757 upside down either, so there's that.  

If it works out for you, especially while you're moving around trying to land your forever job, I'd say go for it.

So, you're going to RETIRE as a CW4......

WHY THE FUCK are you even thinking about the Reserves/Guard????

Won't that fuck up your ACTIVE DUTY RETIREMENT???

Most of the Federal Flying jobs have a MAXIMUM Hiring Age. Are you going to be below that? And, remember all that BULLSHIT you had in the Army? Guess what! You still have that in Government service.

As far as being Junior, and schedules, and moving from Regional to Mainline.....

That's all part of the job. But, depending on the airline that you work for, how the manning is, you "MIGHT" be able to drop trips/reserve days.

Since you have a military retirement, that could offset the dollars lost by dropping trips.

So, if it hasn't been said, GET YOUR ATP ASAP.  

How much fixed wing time do you have? Any "NEW" Fixed wing time should be Multi Engine. You might be able to bypass getting your Multi Engine Commercial Fixed wing and go directly to Multi Engine ATP.

IF NOT, get your Helicopter ATP. THEN, you should be able to just get a fixed wing ATP.

But, As "SMOKEY" Says, only YOU can chose to be an Airline Pilot.

It's not a bad gig.

And, if you have that Military Retirement, and Tri-Care, it can be a really good gig.....

Your Choice....

All of the above.

I've flown as a flight instructor, FAR 135 freight dog in piston twins, 121 regional pilot in Dash 8s, A-10 pilot in the Air Guard, managed a King Air 350 for a trust fund family, flew Challenger 601/604s for an insurance company, was a pilot supervisor and line check airman at a 135 gig on King Airs....

....and the easiest, best paying, best quality of life and  ridiculously well treated aviation gig I've ever had is at a major airline.

What are you, 45, 46 years old?  If that?  Suck it up and go to a regional for a year, you'll be at a major shortly thereafter.

Within 3 years at the major you'll be making more than twice your top earnings in your best year in the military.  16% (or better at Delta) 401k match without you contributing dime one.  

Walk on the jet, fly your trip, go home.

It really is easy and you will finally be able to spend time with your wife and family that has been lacking the last 20 years.

You can buy us beers and thank us later.

What about instructing at Ft. Rucker ?

It’s great money and benefits.  I’m paid for 8 hours a day but am typically at work between 5.3 and 6.5 hours.  I’ve slept in my own bed every night for the last 16 years and my commute is less than 20 minutes.  I fly 5 days a week, between 2 and 3 hours per day with not other duties. For a former Army IP it’s a fantastic job

IF…

You can stand living in the Rucker vicinity forever.  Many can’t.

You have to really, REALLY, REALLY love instructing.  It can suck your soul if it is not your thing.
I’f you do not really really really love that, don’t waste your own or everyone else’s time.  It’s not a time building job.  It’s a flying capstone job.

We have had a lot of expensive and aggravating turnover in the last few years from folks (both military and civilian trained) that came for the money or as a step stone to whatever else the really wanted to do and it just didn’t work out very well for anyone.

Morgan has never struck me as someone very interested in instructing for a living.

Just out of curiosity, who are you teaching and what exactly are you teaching them?  Is this basic flight instruction for army pilots?  And is that done by retired mil and/or civilians?  Seems like that would be important work.

Yes.

I'm a contract flight instructor teaching the Primary and Instrument Phases of the Army's Initial Entry Rotary Wing Common Core in the UH-72 (It's a green Airbus H145).

We have a ex-mil heavy mix of former military IP's from (all the services) and civilian only experienced CFI/IIs.

Bottom line, I have them for the first 80 training days of the Army's flight school assembly line.