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Link Posted: 2/4/2012 8:54:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Keekleberrys] [#1]
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 8:55:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jonny762] [#2]
Page 2 would deliver a roundhouse kick.



ETA: And fail miserably.



 
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 8:56:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Tag.

Also, are you willing to perform as an expert witness should the need arise?

__________________________________________________________________
Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread).
«nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus»
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 8:57:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: burnprocess] [#4]
Originally Posted By watchwatch:
Best post I've read on this site.  Cold, hard, brutal facts.   Did anyone else notice their heart rate increase?

Thanks OP.  1000 interwebs to you.


Yes.  My ex was gang-raped.  It's how her daughter was made.   Reading about this shit makes my blood boil, but it's something that I have to learn to get under control and keep a cool head over, even if I hate going through these emotions.   Bad guys are everywhere.  There's no "theater" for us as far as attacks, murders, rapes, etc.  It's our neighborhoods, our schools, malls, playgrounds, public and private transportation, everywhere.   Everywhere is a fucking battleground.   .Mil and LEO's have my undying respect.  But for all of you civvies like me, the question is, how are YOU going to handle it?  Be a victim or not be a victim.  It's your choice, but it's their game.

Serious business, these days.   We certainly do "live in interesting times."

Edit - Regarding the civvies comment, it's merely about how we don't have any formal training protocol.  We can choose to train or not, but .Mil and LEO's MUST go through training.  Again, it's our decision to make...
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:02:23 PM EDT
[#5]
This just reminds me to stop putting off that carry gun purchase, to find some leather, get a membership at the closeby range, and get some trigger time in.  

I'm glad I live in a relatively nice area and my workplace (I work at night) is pretty far from any residential areas, so there are no street thugs in close proximity.... but shit can happen anywhere.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:02:51 PM EDT
[#6]
as a former LEO with 13yrs experience all I can say is great post...
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:05:00 PM EDT
[#7]
This is good stuff. Thanks!
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:06:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: stockshift] [#8]
Very good post. In particular, this line echoed a critical learning from a street tactics class:

Originally Posted By BurnedOutLEO:
I pointed out a uniform Officer there was an NFL size guy to that hold up man. Frankly the dude was a monster. I asked hold up man if he would rob him. He said "If I needed the money".


During that class the instructor relayed the results of a study done on violent felons that were in prison.  They were shown a series of videos of people walking on the street.  There were people from all walks of life and physical sizes.  Each felon was asked if he would attack that person and why (or why not).

The most stunning result?  Physical size had no correlation to whether the prisoner made the decision to attack or not.    Big or small, it made no difference.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:06:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Man.  I've been lax about carrying lately.

I think you have straightened me out.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:06:21 PM EDT
[#10]
I vote he gets a lifetime membership for this! I would love to read more posts like this.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:06:49 PM EDT
[#11]
kinda fucked up that the most common reply to this thread comes from people proclaiming how nice it is to read an intelligent, contributing post in GD
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:09:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Great advice here. Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:10:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Well said. For me, one of the most important aspects and one of the first you mentioned, is situational awareness. Many incounters can be avoided






by proper use of it.

 
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:11:15 PM EDT
[#14]
I appreciate your information, I've never had to draw on someone, hope that I don't have to....but if I do I will remember your information
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:14:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Tagged for later.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:15:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Great post...ive taught all of these basics to new students...too many times you can see the words just bouncing off them...but for some it realy sticks...I just wish I was positive that my words were spooken half as well as the OP did here.





Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:16:50 PM EDT
[#17]
tag for reading later
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:17:34 PM EDT
[#18]



Originally Posted By 74novaman:


Thanks for taking the time to post this. Powerful stuff.


Indeed.  Thanks, sir.  I will share this with friends and family.



 
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:18:01 PM EDT
[#19]
tagging this to show family later,  very good post, thank you sir
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:18:36 PM EDT
[#20]
There was just a CCW holder involved in stopping an armed robbery in Milwaukee, Wi a little while ago, I can't believe some of the reactions. People are sympathizing with the d-bags who held shotguns to the clerks heads as they robbed them.  

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:18:47 PM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By Quintanaroo:
I vote he gets a lifetime membership for this! I would love to read more posts like this.


+1 on this, even if he doesn't post again that is well worth it and needs to be made a must read somewhere
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:23:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Thanks for taking the time to write that up. Excellent info!



Subscribed for repeated readings
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:23:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PeepEater] [#23]
The OP's post mirrored exactly what happened in almost exact detail the two times in my life I have drawn a loaded handgun on another person. I was lucky enough to have heard similar things before. If I had not I would have likely been robbed at best. One was the "can I have a cigarette?" request while he closed distance and the other one approached me at a gas station for "change to fill the tires in his bike". In my case I was lucky enough that they broke contact immediately in both instances, in one of them apologizing while they backed off exactly as  described.

 
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:29:36 PM EDT
[#24]

Thanks for posting this, I just emailed it to my wife and family/friends.  

Let's hope they never had to use that great info you provided, but if they do, they have it.

Thanks again.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:33:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Great post.  Someone sticky this thread already.  


Probably the best post I have read in a couple years on these boards and a great way to go out with a bang when it comes to being a team member.  My membership expires in about 3 hours and thanks to the wife losing her job a few months ago and me taking a 40% pay cut to stay employed instead of just going on unemployment I will not be renewing until things are looking better for my family.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:33:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Sharing this with family and friends. Great post.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:34:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Please don't forget that the street beggar that approaches you at the gas pump with that sad story of needing money to get home could very well be a predator looking for an easy mark. I get all kinds of people coming to me for money, even in uniform. I guess I look like an easy mark.






BTW, I was robbed at gunpoint just after getting out of the army almost 30 years ago. I was not armed and it pissed me off to this day. 3 black urban youths. That day I said "NEVER AGAIN!" and so far, it never has happened again.







When I get somebody cutting across the parking lot to scam me, I stop them way back and take the defensive. Then I inform them I can help them out, get them off the street and get them food - take them to jail.







Predators are predators. The difference between begging for change or bucks and strong arm or armed robbery is desperation and experience. Risk verses reward. Can I get away with it?







Good post. This needs addressed.

 
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:36:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By 74novaman:
Thanks for taking the time to post this. Powerful stuff.


Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:37:17 PM EDT
[#29]
thanks OP
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:40:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By MoNkEyTurbo:
There was just a CCW holder involved in stopping an armed robbery in Milwaukee, Wi a little while ago, I can't believe some of the reactions. People are sympathizing with the d-bags who held shotguns to the clerks heads as they robbed them.  

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/aldi-customer-wont-be-charged-in-shooting-sk42et0-138688529.html

Wow, that's quite an awesome story!

__________________________________________________________________
Cross-platform gun database/electronic bound book (v1.3.2) (and the original thread).
«nolite confidere in principibus, in filiis hominum quibus non est salus»
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:41:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Thank you, OP, for the great article. If time allows, you have the knowledge and insight to publish a great book on the subject.....
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:45:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By watchwatch:
Best post I've read on this site.  Cold, hard, brutal facts.   Did anyone else notice their heart rate increase?

Thanks OP.  1000 interwebs to you.


I did.

Compelling read, OP.  You should have a column or newsletter.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:49:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Very good information here.  OP, if you're ok with it I would like to request your permission to repost this on another forum (with credit given to you of course).  I think this is potentially life saving info.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:50:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AZBADBOY] [#34]
I can attest to the effectiveness of the shirt fanning. It's a long story but I was in Comifornia so I couldn't carry my normal daily carry. Was super dark, had the GF at the time with me and approached by someone that I'm 110% sure meant us harm or rob us (prob both). Verbally addressed him while fanning my shirt to draw my shinny knife I had clipped on my pocket. That flash of chrome and me confronting him before closing in any closer than 50ft was enough for the thug to turn face. I felt prepared and helpless all at the same time. Had I not noticed him from the point he stood up and started walking in a direction to cut us off we would have surely been screwed. Still think about that day often and it was almost 18yrs ago. I'll never be a victim, I refuse!!!!!

Oh and great post OP. Many need the reminder daily still.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:51:20 PM EDT
[#35]



Originally Posted By watchwatch:


Best post I've read on this site.  Cold, hard, brutal facts.   Did anyone else notice their heart rate increase?



Thanks OP.  1000 1000000 interwebs to you.






 
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:51:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Nice job and thanks for posting.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:52:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Excellent Post.



Thank you for taking the time to write it.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:52:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:58:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Thank you for taking the time to write that.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:59:11 PM EDT
[#40]
Having been on both ends of a handgun and a knife, I believe this is good stuff.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 9:59:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Outstanding.

Link Posted: 2/4/2012 10:00:35 PM EDT
[#42]
excellent, thank you
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 10:03:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Will finish reading tomorrow. So far I like
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 10:06:14 PM EDT
[#44]
Wow, that was a amazingly informative post. One of the best I have ever seen on this site.

Burned, a few questions:

How many defensive shootings outside the home have you investigated/responded to/seen first hand in your capacity as a LEO over the years?

Did you see any of the CCWers get charged?

Did any of them go to jail?

Do you think the fact that people carry far less cash these days has deterred hold up men to some extent? I mean, what is the point of taking somebody's wallet if all he has in there is 5 dollars and a debit card he's going to cancel immediately? Do they see it that way?

Link Posted: 2/4/2012 10:06:27 PM EDT
[#45]



Originally Posted By makintrax73:


This has got to be one of the best posts I have ever seen in GD.  Thank you.


This. Placing it on my subscribed list for refreshing the brain from time to time. Thank you very mud OP.

 
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 10:06:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6winchester2] [#46]
Originally Posted By rtech:
Please don't forget that the street beggar that approaches you at the gas pump with that sad story of needing money to get home could very well be a predator looking for an easy mark. I get all kinds of people coming to me for money, even in uniform. I guess I look like an easy mark.

BTW, I was robbed at gunpoint just after getting out of the army almost 30 years ago. I was not armed and it pissed me off to this day. 3 black urban youths. That day I said "NEVER AGAIN!" and so far, it never has happened again.

When I get somebody cutting across the parking lot to scam me, I stop them way back and take the defensive. Then I inform them I can help them out, get them off the street and get them food - take them to jail.

Predators are predators. The difference between begging for change or bucks and strong arm or armed robbery is desperation and experience. Risk verses reward. Can I get away with it?

Good post. This needs addressed.
 


Gas stations are on a different level than nearly anywhere else you can imagine in terms of the "opportunity" they provide to get into a bad jam fast enough to make your head spin.

Everyone needs gas sooner or later, the predators know this, and (best of all for them) you have a ton of exposure while you have to stand there and wait for your tank to fill.

I always switch my threat radar to "maximum scan" when I am at a gas station, especially after dark.

On that subject, I have posted this on ARFCOM before, but here it is, one more time...

A young woman who I knew some years ago was driving through Detroit late one night on I-75, coming back to Ohio from having visited some friends in a suburb north of the city.

This poor girl had no idea how bad Detroit is, as she had spent very little time in Michigan.  (Had I known of her plans in advance, I would have warned her.  Tragically, I did not find out until too late).

It was probably around midnight (thereabouts) when she was coming back south, and she ran low on gas.

She exited the freeway to look for a gas station that was open, without realizing she was now in one of the worst parts of Detroit.

After finding a gas station that was open, she was standing at the pump filling her tank when she was approached by two males.

They abducted her right there at the pump, and took turns raping her.

The clerk inside the gas station was a real rocket scientist.  He saw the abduction, and decided (are you ready for this?) to wait 30 minutes before calling the police.  (Moral: Do NOT expect anyone else to come to your aid.  Many people WILL stand there, watch, and do absolutely nothing to help someone being assaulted).

I was able to talk to her after she got out of the hospital, and that girl was destroyed.  Those animals messed her up for the rest of her life.

I doubt they were ever caught.

They are probably still out there, waiting for the next unfortunate victim (assuming they haven't found several more already, who knows).

Thankfully I rarely have any need to drive through Detroit, but when I do, I always carry at least two spare mags.
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 10:10:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Outstanding post.



Saved to a Word doc.
 
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 10:12:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Originally Posted By 6winchester2:
Originally Posted By rtech:
Please don't forget that the street beggar that approaches you at the gas pump with that sad story of needing money to get home could very well be a predator looking for an easy mark. I get all kinds of people coming to me for money, even in uniform. I guess I look like an easy mark.

BTW, I was robbed at gunpoint just after getting out of the army almost 30 years ago. I was not armed and it pissed me off to this day. 3 black urban youths. That day I said "NEVER AGAIN!" and so far, it never has happened again.

When I get somebody cutting across the parking lot to scam me, I stop them way back and take the defensive. Then I inform them I can help them out, get them off the street and get them food - take them to jail.

Predators are predators. The difference between begging for change or bucks and strong arm or armed robbery is desperation and experience. Risk verses reward. Can I get away with it?

Good post. This needs addressed.
 


Gas stations are on a different level than nearly anywhere else you can imagine in terms of the "opportunity" they provide to get into a bad jam fast enough to make your head spin.

Everyone needs gas sooner or later, the predators know this, and (best of all for them) you have a ton of exposure while you have to stand there and wait for your tank to fill.

I always switch my threat radar to "maximum scan" when I am at a gas station, especially after dark.

On that subject, I have posted this on ARFCOM before, but here it is, one more time...

A young woman who I knew some years ago was driving through Detroit late one night on I-75, coming back to Ohio from having visited some friends in a suburb north of the city.

This poor girl had no idea how bad Detroit is, as she had spent very little time in Michigan.  (Had I known of her plans in advance, I would have warned her.  Tragically, I did not find out until too late).

It was probably around midnight (thereabouts) when she was coming back south, and she ran low on gas.

She exited the freeway to look for a gas station that was open, without realizing she was now in one of the worst parts of Detroit.

After finding a gas station that was open, she was standing at the pump filling her tank when she was approached by two males.

They abducted her right there at the pump, and took turns raping her.

The clerk inside the gas station was a real rocket scientist.  He saw the abduction, and decided (are you ready for this?) to wait 30 minutes before calling the police.  (Moral: Do NOT expect anyone else to come to your aid.  Many people WILL stand there, watch, and do absolutely nothing to help someone being assaulted).

I was able to talk to her after she got out of the hospital, and that girl was destroyed.  Those animals messed her up for the rest of her life.

I doubt they were ever caught.

They are probably still out there, waiting for the next unfortunate victim (assuming they haven't found several more already, who knows).

Thankfully I rarely have any need to drive through Detroit, but when I do, I always carry at least two spare mags.


I hate stories like this...
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 10:12:34 PM EDT
[#49]
You cant really "teach" anyone situational awareness, my fiance just kinda thinks it a form of paranoia and no matter how much i try to explain it no one ever gets it and they act like i have a bad attitude of living life of sorts.

Im gonna make everyone read this, thank you
Link Posted: 2/4/2012 10:13:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By makintrax73:
This has got to be one of the best posts I have ever seen in GD.  Thank you.


Page / 56
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