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Posted: 10/22/2021 4:45:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, unless you're willing to escalate to things that aren't CoC-compliant, ultimately there isn't anything that can be done to avoid it. Hornady, apparently, is not willing. There are several things a company can do that are CoC-compliant - If have govt contracts, continue until contracts are canx due to lack of acceptance of new provisions - Shift focus away from fed contracts and accept potential losses - Shift into <100 business units if possible/practical/legal (more difficult than most here think) - Delay action on anticipated OSHA regulation until implemented and legal challenges are resolved - Have liberal exception/accommodation approval for those who decide against the vax These are mine off the top of my head, probably others |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 4:49:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well honestly what do you expect them to do? I guess I expect decent companies to put out a token “y’all need to get vaccinated or submit your medical or religious exemption” memo to their employees….and then rubber stamp every goddamn exemption that comes their way. That just seems like such a simple solution. Hornady’s email reeked of “I really don’t want principles getting in the way of my income”. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 4:53:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I expect decent companies to put out a token “y’all need to get vaccinated or submit your medical or religious exemption” memo to their employees….and then rubber stamp every goddamn exemption that comes their way. That just seems like such a simple solution. Hornady’s email reeked of “I really don’t want principles getting in the way of my income”. Hornady's letter reeked of "I haven't really researched shit except CNN/Fox headlines so y'all need to get vaxxed before I get in trouble." |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 5:15:19 AM EDT
[#4]
November 9, 2009
The Honorable Marcy Kaptur One Maritime Plaza 6th Floor Toledo, OH 20515-4146 Dear Congresswoman Kaptur: Thank you for your letter enclosing correspondence from your constituent Mrs. Tara Fisher. Specifically, Mrs. Fisher would like to know whether her employer can mandate that she accept a flu shot. Her employer has threatened the employees with mandatory time off if they do not accept the flu shots. In April 2009, a Novel H1N1 influenza A (genetically distinct from seasonal flu virus) strain of swine origin was identified. Unlike previous seasonal influenza viruses, this pandemic influenza virus disproportionately infects a wider age-range of people. Based on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC's) recommendations, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has guidelines for employers to assist them in the development of a framework in preparing their workplaces in order to minimize transmission of a pandemic virus. OSHA does expect facilities providing healthcare services to perform a risk assessment of their workplace and encourages healthcare employers to offer both the seasonal and H1N1 vaccines. It is important to note that employees need to be properly informed of the benefits of the vaccinations. However, although OSHA does not specifically require employees to take the vaccines, an employer may do so. In that case, an employee who refuses vaccination because of a reasonable belief that he or she has a medical condition that creates a real danger of serious illness or death (such as serious reaction to the vaccine) may be protected under Section 11(c) of the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 pertaining to whistle blower rights. In addition, OSHA recommends that Mrs. Fisher visit both CDC's and OSHA's websites for additional information on the flu vaccine at: http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu and https://www.osha.gov/dsg/topics/pandemicflu/index.html. Also, enclosed is the OSHA Fact Sheet on Section 11(c). We hope your constituent finds this information helpful. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact Janna Bergquist in the Department of Labor's Office of Congressional and Intergovernmental Affairs at (202) 693-4600. Sincerely, Jordan Barab Acting Assistant Secretary https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2009-11-09 |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 5:37:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: November 9, 2009 The Honorable Marcy Kaptur One Maritime Plaza 6th Floor Toledo, OH 20515-4146 Dear Congresswoman Kaptur: Thank you for your letter enclosing correspondence from your constituent Mrs. Tara Fisher. Specifically, Mrs. Fisher would like to know whether her employer can mandate that she accept a flu shot. Her employer has threatened the employees with mandatory time off if they do not accept the flu shots. In April 2009, a Novel H1N1 influenza A (genetically distinct from seasonal flu virus) strain of swine origin was identified. Unlike previous seasonal influenza viruses, this pandemic influenza virus disproportionately infects a wider age-range of people. Based on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC's) recommendations, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has guidelines for employers to assist them in the development of a framework in preparing their workplaces in order to minimize transmission of a pandemic virus. OSHA does expect facilities providing healthcare services to perform a risk assessment of their workplace and encourages healthcare employers to offer both the seasonal and H1N1 vaccines. It is important to note that employees need to be properly informed of the benefits of the vaccinations. However, although OSHA does not specifically require employees to take the vaccines, an employer may do so. In that case, an employee who refuses vaccination because of a reasonable belief that he or she has a medical condition that creates a real danger of serious illness or death (such as serious reaction to the vaccine) may be protected under Section 11(c) of the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 pertaining to whistle blower rights. In addition, OSHA recommends that Mrs. Fisher visit both CDC's and OSHA's websites for additional information on the flu vaccine at: http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu and https://www.osha.gov/dsg/topics/pandemicflu/index.html. Also, enclosed is the OSHA Fact Sheet on Section 11(c). We hope your constituent finds this information helpful. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact Janna Bergquist in the Department of Labor's Office of Congressional and Intergovernmental Affairs at (202) 693-4600. Sincerely, Jordan Barab Acting Assistant Secretary https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2009-11-09 |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 6:12:10 AM EDT
[#6]
I have over 100 employees. I’ll never send a letter like that. What a pussy. I’m done with his products. Offer exemption forms at a minimum.
I will also hold out for a challenge to this rule as I believe it is an improper use of the emergency powers (this is lawyers telling industry this, not just my opinion). So I’m hoping this gets held up. I will deal with no more fed contracts because my people are important than a contract. This guy is a bitch who rolls over at the sight of tyranny; doesn’t have an ounce of fight in him. May all fuck be upon his company. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 8:35:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Totally.fucking.wrong. I've been winning and managing fed contracts for over thirty years and you are just wrong. I've done dozens of contract mods that were either no cost to govt or actually resulted in reducing contract value. I've had several projects cancelled by the govt at various stages and the only recourse was negotiating an equitable settlement based on actual expenses incurred. I've had contract specs changed more times than I can count and I could only ask for more money by showing them actual costs incurred, which since the COVID shots are free I suspect that would be negligible. I've also had to swallow a bitter pill on govt mods I didn't agree with or face contract cancellation. For IDIQ contracts, good luck getting further task orders or contract renewal. You simply have no idea what you are talking about. You are also wrong about the whole "Federal Register" stuff. What has happened through the EO is that the FAR Council has drafted a contract clause that is to be included in future contracts through "deviations" provisions developed by the major contracting agencies. So far the DOD, GSA and VA have published their deviation guidance to their contracting officers. For DOD "The DoD Deviation also allows contracting officers to insert its COVID Clause into contracts under the Simplified Acquisition Threshold and already-issued solicitations as well as using bilateral modifications to insert it into already-existing contracts and task and delivery orders." From the article linked below. Link to good article explaining things Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not so much. Most .gov contracts have cancellation clauses that cost the .gov a LOT of money, which is why they cancel precious few of them. Any time a contract mod is requested, it costs the taxpayers money. Every. Single. Time. Besides, there is no FAR clause yet and won't be until it gets published in the Federal Register, public comment is received, and all the other provisions of the Administrative Procedures Act is followed. Right now, it's a bluff and far too many companies are falling for it. Totally.fucking.wrong. I've been winning and managing fed contracts for over thirty years and you are just wrong. I've done dozens of contract mods that were either no cost to govt or actually resulted in reducing contract value. I've had several projects cancelled by the govt at various stages and the only recourse was negotiating an equitable settlement based on actual expenses incurred. I've had contract specs changed more times than I can count and I could only ask for more money by showing them actual costs incurred, which since the COVID shots are free I suspect that would be negligible. I've also had to swallow a bitter pill on govt mods I didn't agree with or face contract cancellation. For IDIQ contracts, good luck getting further task orders or contract renewal. You simply have no idea what you are talking about. You are also wrong about the whole "Federal Register" stuff. What has happened through the EO is that the FAR Council has drafted a contract clause that is to be included in future contracts through "deviations" provisions developed by the major contracting agencies. So far the DOD, GSA and VA have published their deviation guidance to their contracting officers. For DOD "The DoD Deviation also allows contracting officers to insert its COVID Clause into contracts under the Simplified Acquisition Threshold and already-issued solicitations as well as using bilateral modifications to insert it into already-existing contracts and task and delivery orders." From the article linked below. Link to good article explaining things I've been helping to write .gov contracts longer than that. I've had a few "no cost extensions" when a contractor is running behind schedule. But, it still costs the .gov to process the paperwork and costs the company to do the same even with a "no cost" mod. Having written IDIQ and task order contracts, you are wrong about those, too. As for the Federal Register publication, that is a legal requirement, not an optional nicety. The FAR Council is an advisory body. The Administrative Procedures Act controls how the FARS are modified. Having agencies issue guidance isn't legally enforceable because the proper legal process has not been followed. Federal contracts cannot be unilaterally modified. It even mentions that in the article you posted. Point being, you are wrong on the facts and you should take a little more time to think before posting. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 8:36:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put yourself in 1930s Germany as a German citizen. WWI is over. But that doesn't stop the world and League if Nations from completely destroying your economy and attempting to embarrass you for generations to come. A man comes along and fixes shit. Economy doing better than ever. But you step out of line you're not executed. Your whole family is executed in front of you. You know what's going on but you choose to stay quiet. Since we have the luxury as I said to look at what happened, we can see what happens when the majority complies. The meme I was replying to implied that select people would have complied in 1930s Germany. Which if we were all in 1930s Germany no matter what you believe right now would have most likely complied. Which is why it's a cop out and not a truly fair comparison. We are in America, not 1930s Germany. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Equine excrement. Speak for yourself, Mr. Quisling. Put yourself in 1930s Germany as a German citizen. WWI is over. But that doesn't stop the world and League if Nations from completely destroying your economy and attempting to embarrass you for generations to come. A man comes along and fixes shit. Economy doing better than ever. But you step out of line you're not executed. Your whole family is executed in front of you. You know what's going on but you choose to stay quiet. Since we have the luxury as I said to look at what happened, we can see what happens when the majority complies. The meme I was replying to implied that select people would have complied in 1930s Germany. Which if we were all in 1930s Germany no matter what you believe right now would have most likely complied. Which is why it's a cop out and not a truly fair comparison. We are in America, not 1930s Germany. No, I would not have. You have your conscience, I have mine. Apparently, they are not the same. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 8:39:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not true - mRNA vaccines do not modify or modulate the genome of the vaccine recipient. In order for viral RNA to be integrated into a host cell genome, it must first be transcribed into DNA by reverse transcriptase, which is then inserted into the host genome via transposition. This occurs within retroviruses such as HIV, which is why it is so difficult to treat (along with it's immunosuppressive qualities). The purpose of the mRNA vaccines is to induce the manufacture of SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins by ribosomes within cells in order to elicit an immune response. mRNA stands for messenger RNA, which serves as a transcript that can be "read" by the ribosome and translated into protein (in this case, a spike protein). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The shots are more properly referred to as gene THERAPY. Not true - mRNA vaccines do not modify or modulate the genome of the vaccine recipient. In order for viral RNA to be integrated into a host cell genome, it must first be transcribed into DNA by reverse transcriptase, which is then inserted into the host genome via transposition. This occurs within retroviruses such as HIV, which is why it is so difficult to treat (along with it's immunosuppressive qualities). The purpose of the mRNA vaccines is to induce the manufacture of SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins by ribosomes within cells in order to elicit an immune response. mRNA stands for messenger RNA, which serves as a transcript that can be "read" by the ribosome and translated into protein (in this case, a spike protein). In case you were wondering, Moderna itself referred to their "vaccines" as gene therapy in one of their SEC filings. They and most practitioners knowledgeable in the art use the same term. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 8:40:12 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't bother. Anyone still thinking this is gene therapy is beyond reasoning with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not true - mRNA vaccines do not modify or modulate the genome of the vaccine recipient. In order for viral RNA to be integrated into a host cell genome, it must first be transcribed into DNA by reverse transcriptase, which is then inserted into the host genome via transposition. This occurs within retroviruses such as HIV, which is why it is so difficult to treat (along with it's immunosuppressive qualities). The purpose of the mRNA vaccines is to induce the manufacture of SARS-CoV-2 spike proteins by ribosomes within cells in order to elicit an immune response. mRNA stands for messenger RNA, which serves as a transcript that can be "read" by the ribosome and translated into protein (in this case, a spike protein). Don't bother. Anyone still thinking this is gene therapy is beyond reasoning with. See my post above. It is referred to as gene therapy by the primary developer of the technology as well as one of the companies peddling their shots. Take that however you like. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 8:42:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are several things a company can do that are CoC-compliant - If have govt contracts, continue until contracts are canx due to lack of acceptance of new provisions - Shift focus away from fed contracts and accept potential losses - Shift into <100 business units if possible/practical/legal (more difficult than most here think) - Delay action on anticipated OSHA regulation until implemented and legal challenges are resolved - Have liberal exception/accommodation approval for those who decide against the vax These are mine off the top of my head, probably others Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I mean, unless you're willing to escalate to things that aren't CoC-compliant, ultimately there isn't anything that can be done to avoid it. Hornady, apparently, is not willing. There are several things a company can do that are CoC-compliant - If have govt contracts, continue until contracts are canx due to lack of acceptance of new provisions - Shift focus away from fed contracts and accept potential losses - Shift into <100 business units if possible/practical/legal (more difficult than most here think) - Delay action on anticipated OSHA regulation until implemented and legal challenges are resolved - Have liberal exception/accommodation approval for those who decide against the vax These are mine off the top of my head, probably others The last bullet would, in theory, be the easiest to implement and might help against potential lawsuits for denying religious or medical exemptions. I can't understand why more companies don't take advantage of that. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 9:12:37 AM EDT
[#12]
I am convinced that Amway bought big pharma. And we are all just getting the Amway hustle to be vaxed on a national level.
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Posted: 10/22/2021 9:49:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What are they supposed to do? /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/476-342.gif Not today, Mr. Moderator.   Attached File |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 10:58:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean, unless you're willing to escalate to things that aren't CoC-compliant, ultimately there isn't anything that can be done to avoid it. Hornady, apparently, is not willing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "There is nothing you can do to avoid this." Get fucked  I mean, unless you're willing to escalate to things that aren't CoC-compliant, ultimately there isn't anything that can be done to avoid it. Hornady, apparently, is not willing. Like I keep saying, everyone has a choice. And until consequences, real, personal, tangible consequences, come down on the people pushing this, they’ll just keep going. By resisting them, you gain a mechanism to identify them, and their methods. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 11:34:49 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm also done buying Hornady products bullets after this. The least they could have done was mention the possibile exemptions. Or even offered testing as an option, which they don't. Instead they are trying to force their employees into complying with their personal beliefs. I'll choose to spend my money with a company who doesn't try to bully their employees. Unfortunately this sucks for me. I shoot a ton of Hornady bullets. They probably make up 90% of the bullets that I buy for reloading. I'm not looking forward to having to work up new loads for everything, but it is what it is I guess. This. I use a lot of their products. Oh well, there are other options. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 12:18:52 PM EDT
[#16]
It's the Federal government and Uncle Joe that are requiring all company's with over 100 employees to comply! This is not Hornady bending over it's every large company in the USA getting bent over. Save your outrage for the people who are causing this.
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Posted: 10/22/2021 12:40:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I use a lot of their products. Oh well, there are other options. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm also done buying Hornady products bullets after this. The least they could have done was mention the possibile exemptions. Or even offered testing as an option, which they don't. Instead they are trying to force their employees into complying with their personal beliefs. I'll choose to spend my money with a company who doesn't try to bully their employees. Unfortunately this sucks for me. I shoot a ton of Hornady bullets. They probably make up 90% of the bullets that I buy for reloading. I'm not looking forward to having to work up new loads for everything, but it is what it is I guess. This. I use a lot of their products. Oh well, there are other options. Short of the boutique components, I'm sure Winchester, Remington, Federal, etc are all trying to figure out what they're going to do (or have already done it and didn't send out a retarded letter). There are only a handful of companies making primers and powder. Don't get me wrong, I support trying to get around this issue and definitely believe in calling out the cucks, but it sure seems like the walls are closing in on everything. 
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Posted: 10/22/2021 12:42:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the Federal government and Uncle Joe that are requiring all company's with over 100 employees to comply! This is not Hornady bending over it's every large company in the USA getting bent over. Save your outrage for the people who are causing this. Everyone realizes this is the potato regimes doing, most folks are pissed about his retarded letter. As others have said, he could have stood his ground, he could have waited, he could have said they'd join any companies filing lawsuits, he could have said free exemptions for everyone, etc. but he took the coward's way out. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 2:18:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Short of the boutique components, I'm sure Winchester, Remington, Federal, etc are all trying to figure out what they're going to do (or have already done it and didn't send out a retarded letter). There are only a handful of companies making primers and powder. Don't get me wrong, I support trying to get around this issue and definitely believe in calling out the cucks, but it sure seems like the walls are closing in on everything. And if they all stand firm and say... "we can no longer comply with your out of contract terms..." guess what. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 2:19:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the Federal government and Uncle Joe that are requiring all company's with over 100 employees to comply! This is not Hornady bending over it's every large company in the USA getting bent over. Save your outrage for the people who are causing this. Post count if not join date... I'm guessing you aren't telling us something. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 2:29:49 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And if they all stand form and say... "we can no longer comply with your out of contract terms..." guess what. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Short of the boutique components, I'm sure Winchester, Remington, Federal, etc are all trying to figure out what they're going to do (or have already done it and didn't send out a retarded letter). There are only a handful of companies making primers and powder. Don't get me wrong, I support trying to get around this issue and definitely believe in calling out the cucks, but it sure seems like the walls are closing in on everything. And if they all stand form and say... "we can no longer comply with your out of contract terms..." guess what. A lot of could have, should have, would haves going back to the start of this mess under Trump- as for the retarded mandates, if all companies had told Joe to pound sand there is zero the government could do about it, but most are caving without a fight. 
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Posted: 10/22/2021 2:30:53 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What it should have said: Dear Hornady Employees, Biden is trying to pull some bullshit and we told him to fuck off and die. Get the shot if you want to, don't if you don't. See everyone tomorrow, and Fuck Joe Biden. -Steve Hornady  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 2:39:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of could have, should have, would haves going back to the start of this mess under Trump- as for the retarded mandates, if all companies had told Joe to pound sand there is zero the government could do about it, but most are caving without a fight. So why support those that do... ? What next? We can only let you in the store with... We can only accept your ecommerce order with... Only a small step to "in order to do business with us, we require you to verify that all entities you are doing business with have been vaccinated." |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 2:48:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the Federal government and Uncle Joe that are requiring all company's with over 100 employees to comply! This is not Hornady bending over it's every large company in the USA getting bent over. Save your outrage for the people who are causing this. Yes, it is downright comical reading the outrageous reactions from some of the posters here. Similar letters have been issued by thousands of companies across the country. I don't think many here grasp the scale of what is happening right now. People need to open their eyes, step back, look at the big picture, and focus their energy on what matters. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 2:56:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So why support those that do... ? What next? We can only let you in the store with... We can only accept your ecommerce order with... Only a small step to "in order to do business with us, we require you to verify that all entities you are doing business with have been vaccinated." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A lot of could have, should have, would haves going back to the start of this mess under Trump- as for the retarded mandates, if all companies had told Joe to pound sand there is zero the government could do about it, but most are caving without a fight. So why support those that do... ? What next? We can only let you in the store with... We can only accept your ecommerce order with... Only a small step to "in order to do business with us, we require you to verify that all entities you are doing business with have been vaccinated." We're on the same page. I said that I think companies should have done far more than they have including telling the federal government to get bent. Unfortunately that's not what's happening and companies aren't standing up for their employees rights or the rights of their customers- I don't know what the answer is at this point but it certainly feels like they're forcing people into a corner. I like some of Hornady's loadings, especially their 6.8 SST round, and while I can do without it I suspect that all of the larger companies are doing the same thing, they're just not putting out a retarded letter about it. Short of their own workers taking a stand I don't think our griping on the internet is going to change anything in the long run. He may issue some half-hearted statement about trying to save his company and his employees jobs, but if I'm being honest, I've lost all faith in the American spirit as a whole. ETA- See also the post above this one. Almost every company is capitulating.
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Posted: 10/22/2021 3:48:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it is downright comical reading the outrageous reactions from some of the posters here. Similar letters have been issued by thousands of companies across the country. I don't think many here grasp the scale of what is happening right now. People need to open their eyes, step back, look at the big picture, and focus their energy on what matters. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's the Federal government and Uncle Joe that are requiring all company's with over 100 employees to comply! This is not Hornady bending over it's every large company in the USA getting bent over. Save your outrage for the people who are causing this. Yes, it is downright comical reading the outrageous reactions from some of the posters here. Similar letters have been issued by thousands of companies across the country. I don't think many here grasp the scale of what is happening right now. People need to open their eyes, step back, look at the big picture, and focus their energy on what matters. Yeah, no. I think I'll focus my outrage on everyone responsible. That's the sociopaths in DC, as well as those business owners going out of their way to do the wrong thing. I also think pretty much everyone is well aware of the scale of what's happening here. It's evil and anti American in the extreme. We have to power to stop it, and putting pressure on those who want to cave isn't a bad way to do it. What exactly do you think we should be focusing our energy on? Bending over and touching our toes? The politicians aren't going to listen to us, but they'll lose all of their power if we can get American companies to act like Americans and not help the power hungry leeches. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 6:09:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are several things a company can do that are CoC-compliant - If have govt contracts, continue until contracts are canx due to lack of acceptance of new provisions - Shift focus away from fed contracts and accept potential losses - Shift into <100 business units if possible/practical/legal (more difficult than most here think) - Delay action on anticipated OSHA regulation until implemented and legal challenges are resolved - Have liberal exception/accommodation approval for those who decide against the vax These are mine off the top of my head, probably others Great post. Hornady can go find a nice pile of sand, get themselves a hammer, and pound that sand right up their ass. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 6:27:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone on this board would have complied. We just have the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking it. You too would have been a Nazi in WWII. Jordan Peterson did an amazing speech on this too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone on this board would have complied. We just have the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking it. You too would have been a Nazi in WWII. Jordan Peterson did an amazing speech on this too. Quarter Jew here, with some bonus Gypsy blood to boot. I wouldn't have had the luxury to choose and neither did my family that was in Germany at the time. They either died in the camps, some died when the Nazis came to take them to the camps. A few made it to France where they took up arms to fight the Nazis. Get bent. ETA: not mention all the taking up arms against France and Britain in North American during the 1700's and 1800's |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 6:56:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone on this board would have complied. We just have the luxury of Monday morning quarterbacking it. You too would have been a Nazi in WWII. Jordan Peterson did an amazing speech on this too. No, Jordan Peterson did a speech reminding people of the high likelihood, and the fact that they need to examine their motives carefully because of that. However, you're missing several important distinctions: 1. He was talking about most people, not all people. 2. People on ar15.com are not a representative sample of the national population. This is a self-selected subset of people who are, shall we say, more rebellious on average. 3. On a forum of people more morally independent on average than the national population, some of the posters are more morally independent than the average of the forum as well. 4. The purpose of examining your motives and coming to honest terms with what you are capable of, is to promote more conscious reflection so that more people will choose to do the right thing when the time comes, instead of caving to pressure. Some people have actively made a point to consciously do that very self-examination and take corrective action in their mental habits. If what you learned from Peterson is the futility of thinking you could possibly make sacrifices to do the right thing, you learned the wrong lesson. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 8:10:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Will the members and families of congress, the supreme court, the whitehouse staff, etc also be mandated and subject to the experimental government injection?
Did Steve Hornady get his injection? |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 8:55:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will the members and families of congress, the supreme court, the whitehouse staff, etc also be mandated and subject to the experimental government injection? Did Steve Hornady get his injection? With the possible exception of the White House staff, no. This all being done by the Executive Branch and they cannot mandate anything to the Judiciary (SCOTUS) or Legislative (Congress). Basic separation of powers. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 9:00:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dear Steve, Go Fuck Yourself Yours Truly, Your customers This, in spades. Everyone should print a copy and send it to him with a personal note on it telling him to pound sand. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 9:18:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I would not have. You have your conscience, I have mine. Apparently, they are not the same. Yeah you would have. What did you do during the bumpstock ban? |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 9:19:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, Jordan Peterson did a speech reminding people of the high likelihood, and the fact that they need to examine their motives carefully because of that. However, you're missing several important distinctions: 1. He was talking about most people, not all people. 2. People on ar15.com are not a representative sample of the national population. This is a self-selected subset of people who are, shall we say, more rebellious on average. 3. On a forum of people more morally independent on average than the national population, some of the posters are more morally independent than the average of the forum as well. 4. The purpose of examining your motives and coming to honest terms with what you are capable of, is to promote more conscious reflection so that more people will choose to do the right thing when the time comes, instead of caving to pressure. Some people have actively made a point to consciously do that very self-examination and take corrective action in their mental habits. If what you learned from Peterson is the futility of thinking you could possibly make sacrifices to do the right thing, you learned the wrong lesson. Lol okay bud. |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 9:05:37 AM EDT
[#35]
Sitting here I felt like going to Hornadys website to the contact us section to tell Steve what a pussy he is and he won't get a penny more of my money.
Contact us links non-working. Imagine that. |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 9:08:15 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fixed Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Basically any company that has over 100 employees Fixed I wonder if they'll truly enforce it. |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 9:36:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, I have a feeling he's going to lose business... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The issue is either a supplier or (more likely) a key vendor or sales channel for them is requiring it, and you either do it or lose the business. So if they sell a lot to DoD, or Wal Mart, etc., it's either do it or lose all business. Oh, I have a feeling he's going to lose business... yep |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 9:39:09 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How ‘bout: Wait until there is a final rule, which will trigger federal lawsuits, which will (hopefully) trigger injunctions against enforcement until the full cases are heard? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What are they supposed to do? How ‘bout: Wait until there is a final rule, which will trigger federal lawsuits, which will (hopefully) trigger injunctions against enforcement until the full cases are heard? yep, like not roll over like a trained seal |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 11:48:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah you would have. What did you do during the bumpstock ban? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No, I would not have. You have your conscience, I have mine. Apparently, they are not the same. Yeah you would have. What did you do during the bumpstock ban? Try to buy one, of course. Duh. You just don't seem to have a spine at all and can't understand why others do. |
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Posted: 10/23/2021 12:51:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Steve Hornady sounds like a piece of shit. On the flip side he at least signed the letter and gave his employees until 12/8.
No one at my work even signed the letter of “get the shot or get fired”. Letter was issued on 10/12/21 and you had until 10/29/21 or your fired. And it specifically stated you will not get unemployment benefits.
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Posted: 10/23/2021 1:19:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the Federal government and Uncle Joe that are requiring all company's with over 100 employees to comply! This is not Hornady bending over it's every large company in the USA getting bent over. Save your outrage for the people who are causing this. No, Hornady has options. Not even 1 single mention of exemptions. The only way to stop those at the top, are when their 'legs' no longer support them |
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Posted: 10/25/2021 6:17:22 PM EDT
[#42]
This seems like Hornady has chosen very poorly. Hornady is getting ready to lose a lot of very talented people that keep them running. There isn't exactly a surplus of talent in this area right now.
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Posted: 10/25/2021 6:21:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This seems like Hornady has chosen very poorly. Hornady is getting ready to lose a lot of very talented people that keep them running. There isn't exactly a surplus of talent in this area right now. Could be a lot of opportunity for small businesses with some headroom under that 100 mark to add divisions. |
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