Special Counsel Tells Federal Court Rosenstein Investigative Scope Was Detailed verbally

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Special Counsel Tells Federal Court Rosenstein Investigative Scope Was Detailed verbally (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 5/5/2018 11:33:19 PM EDT

to setup the raid and further investigations into manafort.

yep.

verbally. as in not written anywhere.

as detailed in the special counsel vs manafort transcripts

edit - for the tldr
the mueller people told the judge that the reason the investigation into manafort relating to stuff done a decade ago, was such a national security concern and secret, that the justification for the investigation was given verbally and not documented anywhere.

The transcript from the U.S. Special Counsel -vs- Paul Manafort has been released (full pdf below). The entire transcript of the arguments between the Special Counsel lawyers, Paul Manafort Lawyers and Federal Judge T.S. Ellis III are well worth reading.

As noted yesterday Judge Ellis is the first legal entity to identify the origin of the special counsel investigative authority as a troubling issue. This is likely to become a much bigger story as people catch on to the ramifications.

It is only now coming to light how Asst. Attorney General Rod Rosenstein essentially appointed the Special Counsel to take over the counterintelligence investigation originally begun by the FBI in 2016.
...

udge Ellis began asking, and proving, that a 2005 and 2007 tax and banking case against Paul Manafort had nothing to do with a 2017 counterintelligence investigation about Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

Digging into this odd framework results in the judge demanding the U.S. Attorney to reconcile/explain the origination of the special counsel investigation (2017); and the instructions therein; against the background of the case before him (Manafort), which has nothing to do with the originating mandate of the special counsel (2016 election matters).

The entire back-and-forth is well worth a read. It's quite interesting, because there's likely to be precedent established here.

Right from the outset the court begins questioning the entire premise of the special counsel's expanded authority. Page #4:
...
On Page 32 of the transcript, while trying to specify how the initiating special counsel mandate has bearing upon a decades-old banking/tax case, U.S. Attorney Dreeben tells Judge Ellis the detailed instructions were delivered in person:

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https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/05/05/special-counsel-tells-federal-court-rosenstein-investigative-scope-was-detailed-in-super-secret-verbal-instructions/

we are at the point that if the soft coup progresses, it won't be a peaceful one anymore

Posted: 5/5/2018 11:47:41 PM EDT

[#1]

So then there is no mandate .

Posted: 5/5/2018 11:49:17 PM EDT

[#2]

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So then there is no mandate .

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Of course there was a mandate. They just couldn't put "Take down Trump and anyone who dared support him at any cost legal or not" in writing.

Posted: 5/5/2018 11:50:15 PM EDT

[#3]

Heavy Six checking in. Rally point is the local Chick-fil-A, yes?

Posted: 5/5/2018 11:51:12 PM EDT

[#4]

Don't lawyers always say that if it isn't in writing, it didn't happen?

Posted: 5/5/2018 11:51:13 PM EDT

[#5]

z

They rounded up the usual suspects.........

g

Posted: 5/5/2018 11:51:32 PM EDT

[#6]

In_before

Posted: 5/5/2018 11:56:29 PM EDT

[#7]

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Heavy Six checking in. Rally point is the local Chick-fil-A, yes?

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Every time I hear about shit like this I grab my AR and run out into the street ready to join my neighbors in taking our country back. After a few minutes I realize I'm all by myself. I stand there for a few more minutes waiting then shrug my shoulders and go back inside. Every one is too busy watching Dancing with the Stars or something. I don't get it.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:00:06 AM EDT

[#8]

People don't think a banana republic be like it is, but it do.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:00:23 AM EDT

[#9]

I'm pretty sure that's not going to fly with a federal judge and probably not with a few members of congress.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:02:38 AM EDT

[#10]

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I'm pretty sure that's not going to fly with a federal judge and probably not with a few members of congress.

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And they're going to do what, exactly?

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:03:25 AM EDT

[#11]

Interesting times.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:04:27 AM EDT

[#12]

Nothing will happen. Unfortunately.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:05:34 AM EDT

[#13]

Wow.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:05:35 AM EDT

[#14]

Just got here on this. Has Trey "barky dog" Gowdy made any sweet YouTube videos about this yet?

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:08:01 AM EDT

[#15]

The judge can rule that they exceeded their original mandate and dismiss the charges.

Congress can make Muller and Rosenstein's lives pretty miserable. They have already threatened impeachment for Rosenstein.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:08:06 AM EDT

[#16]

Bullshit. They just don't want to hand it over.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:08:36 AM EDT

[#17]

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And they're going to do what, exactly?

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I'm pretty sure that's not going to fly with a federal judge and probably not with a few members of congress.

And they're going to do what, exactly?

Call for a special council and recommend it go to am ethics committee while muller continues to gather intelligence for the dnc.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:09:00 AM EDT

[#18]

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Heavy Six checking in. Rally point is the local Chick-fil-A, yes?

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I bought my team membership thinking I would get a code name and rally point location

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:10:47 AM EDT

[#19]

If Sessions doesn't un-recuse himself and fire everyone Monday morning, he needs to be fired Monday afternoon.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:13:40 AM EDT

[#20]

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If Sessions doesn't un-recuse himself and fire everyone Monday morning, he needs to be fired Monday afternoon.

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Sessions recused himself from the Russia Interference investigation, not from any expansion that Muller and Rosenstein have cooked up.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:13:52 AM EDT

[#21]

Makes you wonder if they aren't used to FISC judges just going along on a wink and a nod.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:15:40 AM EDT

[#22]

Several people should be in jail for shit like this, sadly nothing will happen.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:17:28 AM EDT

[#23]

Extremely careless

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:40:02 AM EDT

[#24]

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Extremely careless

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Well Hillary was suppose to win, oh wait this happened after President Trump won. The left is very desperate unfortunately the so called right is a bunch of leftest also and will do nothing to hurt the real left.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:40:32 AM EDT

[#25]

Based on what I read up to Page 11, DOJ gave there Maniford investigation info to Mueller. Mueller can’t say that it arose out of his work.

ETA: This may be why the Cohen info was given to the NY DOJ as paypack, or because the origin info was from DOJ also.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:41:14 AM EDT

[#26]

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Several people should be in jail for shit like this, sadly nothing will happen.

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Something will happen. It will be part of the list of a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:47:43 AM EDT

[#27]

This only ads to the hilarity of those Russians Mueller indicted actually showing up in court saying, "Let's get it on."

I bet it turns out that buying Facebook ads isn't actually illegal.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:49:50 AM EDT

[#28]

"These people are stupid"

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:50:35 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

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This only ads to the hilarity of those Russians Mueller indicted actually showing up in court saying, "Let's get it on."

I bet it turns out that buying Facebook ads isn't actually illegal.

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Well apparently it isn't illegal for a Canadian to go on network TV and whine about foreign influence in politics. Or for a South African to do the same thing on basic cable when Trevor Noah on the daily show spends every minute bitching about Trump.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:52:21 AM EDT

[#30]

Lying to a federal judge.. probably a felony.. But what's a felony to a traitor.. Like Hilldog said, If Trump gets elected we will all hang.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:55:30 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
Well apparently it isn't illegal for a Canadian to go on network TV and whine about foreign influence in politics. Or for a South African to do the same thing on basic cable when Trevor Noah on the daily show spends every minute bitching about Trump.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This only ads to the hilarity of those Russians Mueller indicted actually showing up in court saying, "Let's get it on."

I bet it turns out that buying Facebook ads isn't actually illegal.

Well apparently it isn't illegal for a Canadian to go on network TV and whine about foreign influence in politics. Or for a South African to do the same thing on basic cable when Trevor Noah on the daily show spends every minute bitching about Trump.

Or an Englishman on HBO.

Posted: 5/6/2018 12:57:33 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lying to a federal judge.. probably a felony.. But what's a felony to a traitor.. Like Hilldog said, If Trump gets elected we will all hang.

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When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.

Posted: 5/6/2018 7:36:13 AM EDT

[#33]

Day crew bump.

Posted: 5/6/2018 7:45:04 AM EDT

[#34]

kick 'em to the fuqqin' curb, already!

I'm tired of their sick, twisted little charade.

WE won, YOU lost...we put up with 8 years of barry. Now YOU get to put up with 8 years of MAGA!

Posted: 5/6/2018 7:45:28 AM EDT

[#35]

Sounds a lot like we'll do what we want and justify it later if someone asks.

Posted: 5/6/2018 7:50:31 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Lying to a federal judge.. probably a felony.. But what's a felony to a traitor.. Like Hilldog said, If Trump gets elected we will all hang.

When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.

People need to swing for this to end. It will be "them" or "us".

Posted: 5/6/2018 7:52:01 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

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Sounds a lot like we'll do what we want and justify it later if someone asks.

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I think that is MO for the .gov.

Posted: 5/6/2018 7:53:35 AM EDT

[#38]

It was such a concern they waited decade to do something?

I hope the judge roasts them.

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:02:28 AM EDT

[#39]

Judge should respond, "so you have no authority to bring this case, since it is not in writing it doesn't exist. I will be dismissing all charges with prejudice."

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:05:52 AM EDT

[#40]

WTF is going on? I thought there was a redacted scope memo and the judge was asking for an un-redacted copy?

So is there now a redacted scope memo plus verbal commands? Is this shit show finally going off the tracks?

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:09:14 AM EDT

[#41]

That’s ok the deep state will construct a second case in parallel once they realize this one will get dropped.

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:12:43 AM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

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And they're going to do what, exactly?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm pretty sure that's not going to fly with a federal judge and probably not with a few members of congress.

And they're going to do what, exactly?

Nothing because Congress can't. Sessions will cover Rosenstein who will cover Mueller.

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:13:00 AM EDT

[#43]

Secret courts, secret orders, secret evidence, secret authorizations.

What will they think of next?

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:15:34 AM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lying to a federal judge.. probably a felony.. But what's a felony to a traitor.. Like Hilldog said, If Trump gets elected we will all hang.

View Quote

What is a felony when your political elite class has made you above the law, they are probably sipping brandy paid for by taxpayer money, puffing on a Cuban Cigar and laughing their asses off at the whole thing.

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:20:14 AM EDT

[#45]

This Rosenstein is a twat. Remember when Congress was asking him for fbi texts he threatened to look at congress’s texts

Little fucker needs his shit pushed in

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:30:49 AM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
And they're going to do what, exactly?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm pretty sure that's not going to fly with a federal judge and probably not with a few members of congress.

And they're going to do what, exactly?

If you read the transcript the lawyer for Manafort actually worked in the DOJ for Rosenstein in the past. He states that there has to be some written direction as he knows that is how Rosenstein operates.

That said the entire premise of the argument comes from the fact that the judge wanted Mueller's team to state how the cases against Manafort had anything to do with the SC since they revealed the case(s) were from 2005 and 2007. Basically, how do the May 17 and then August 2, 2017 letters of direction from Rosenstein to Mueller's team have any jurisdiction on cases against Manafort from 2005 and 2007 that sat idle within the DOJ for over a decade?

When pressed about the redacted and classified portion of the August 2, 2017 letter from Rosenstein to Mueller's team, Mueller's lawyer said the redactions had nothing to do with Manafort and it was within the scope of the unredacted portions. When pressed further they said well, um, it wasn't in the redactions (I.e. don't ask to see what is under all that black magic marker) and it really isn't in the unredacted part but it was verbally communicated by Rosenstein personally to Mueller et-al.

Judge wants to see unredacted August 2, 2017 memo and wants to see Rosenstein's personal memos with regards to the SC's scope and why they are pursuing old DOJ cases that sat idle for over ten years which have nothing to do with Russia. Judge called them out.

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:32:36 AM EDT

[#47]

I said in the other thread that this could be big and by that I mean maybe the biggest thing to come out of the SC bullshit. RR and Mueller may have stepped in a hornet's nest of their own making. Now a federal judge is asking difficult questions and they can't just blow him off like they did congress.

We pretty much know the answers to these questions but we can't actually prove them and RR et al were planning on finishing off Trump before they got exposed as frauds. Now, that might just happen because of something everyone just blew off when it happened, the "Russian indictments" that no one ever thought would end up in court.

it's fucking beautiful!!

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:36:07 AM EDT

[#48]

so, if there is no prior written authority, they cannot prove there was prior crime known.

Without a prior crime known, there can be no special counsel. That is what the special counsel law says.

Without that requirement, the judge can throw out the Manafort case.

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:36:41 AM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:
If Sessions doesn't un-recuse himself and fire everyone Monday morning, he needs to be fired Monday afternoon.

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It should be very clear to everyone by now that Sessions is part of the coup to destroy Pres. Trump and will do nothing to intercede and put a stop to the Mueller nonsense.

Posted: 5/6/2018 8:37:39 AM EDT

[#50]

Quote History

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snip

I bet it turns out that buying Facebook ads isn't actually illegal.

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It isn't.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Special Counsel Tells Federal Court Rosenstein Investigative Scope Was Detailed verbally (Page 1 of 2)

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