Socialized healthcare.

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Posted: 12/18/2018 7:20:23 PM EDT

At this point I have pretty much lost any faith that we will ever restore free market healthcare. Over many decades we have built a fascist controlled healthcare system that costs just as much as any socialized system.

Seems to me the only difference is the burden of our systems lies heavily on the middle class. We pay insane premiums or huge medical bills to cover all the lower class.

Atthis point I'm having a hard time not supporting a socialized system like Canada that would require the bottom half of the country to actually pay an income tax.

I don't think we will ever see a free market in healthcare again.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:20:57 PM EDT

[#1]

When did we ever have free market health care?

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:24:34 PM EDT

[#2]

I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:25:03 PM EDT

[#3]

Before most of us were born. It has more or less been turned into socialized healthcare already through laws and regulations. Everyone gets care and those of us that choose to buy insurance or actually pay our medical bills suffer the cost of those who don't .

The only difference between what we have is it doesn't have the governments name on it.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:26:01 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

Retarded, you are.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:27:16 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

"spout more uneducated nonsense."

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:27:39 PM EDT

[#6]

You're dreaming if you think any of the bottom 48% will pay anything.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:30:24 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
You're dreaming if you think any of the bottom 48% will pay anything.

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They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy.

I believe that's the only reason they haven't been heavily pushing for socialized medicine is because when the bill hits the floor everyone in the bottom half will have to sacrifice a bit for it.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:31:09 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
... I'm having a hard time not supporting a socialized system like Canada that would require the bottom half of the country to actually pay an income tax.

View Quote

Have you been hitting the medicine cabinet? Why would one necessitate the other?

Never happen.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:31:47 PM EDT

[#9]

Ban all guns and Medicare for all

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:32:49 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

You want to point to the public school system and socialized Ethanol consumption as to why social problems work? You sure about that Clark?

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:34:19 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy.

I believe that's the only reason they haven't been heavily pushing for socialized medicine is because when the bill hits the floor everyone in the bottom half will have to sacrifice a bit for it.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're dreaming if you think any of the bottom 48% will pay anything.

They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy.

I believe that's the only reason they haven't been heavily pushing for socialized medicine is because when the bill hits the floor everyone in the bottom half will have to sacrifice a bit for it.

There are lots of reasons everyone should be paying taxes, and nobody should be getting more back than they pay.

Our system is fucked. Socializing healthcare won't magically fix it.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:34:38 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

I have lots of friends in Canada. None of them has received care in what would be considered a timely manner as defined by service around me. I know what timely should mean after working in health care.

The supreme Court of Quebec found that plenty of people die waiting for health care there and you are a fool if you don't think it's the same across the whole country.

I consider myself a recovering Canadian after moving to the land of the free.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:34:42 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy.

I believe that's the only reason they haven't been heavily pushing for socialized medicine is because when the bill hits the floor everyone in the bottom half will have to sacrifice a bit for it.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
You're dreaming if you think any of the bottom 48% will pay anything.

They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy.

I believe that's the only reason they haven't been heavily pushing for socialized medicine is because when the bill hits the floor everyone in the bottom half will have to sacrifice a bit for it.

Shirley you can't be serious.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:34:49 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy.

I believe that's the only reason they haven't been heavily pushing for socialized medicine is because when the bill hits the floor everyone in the bottom half will have to sacrifice a bit for it.

View Quote

The bottom folks who receive tax refunds when they haven’t paid any taxes? Those folks?

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:35:11 PM EDT

[#15]

People who use the county health care system here quickly realize that you can get in to see a doctor (non-emergency) fairly quickly, but if you need any kind of imaging like x-rays and ultrasound, you have to wait 3 months to get tested.

Remember people in Canada were bitching about waiting a year to get an MRI? Well, it's not a year here, but if we ever go single-payer, it will be.

And the poor will do what the poor have always done and flood the ERs. And more ERs will close and nothing is actually gained except for losses, and that is a loss of choice and a loss of access to private health insurance.

And that's what the lefties want: to force the people to depend on them and have no other options.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:35:36 PM EDT

[#16]

Pretty much where I'm at too. If republicans were smart they could run on the platform, then negotiate us some huge wins (wall, NFA, or whatever) in exchange. But they won't.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:36:02 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

There are more MRI machines in Manhattan than all of Canada.
Getting an appointment for one take up to 6 months depending on the circumstances ...... still think socialized medicine is great

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:36:17 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
You're dreaming if you think any of the bottom 48% will pay anything.

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This.

Attached File

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:36:35 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

Socialized corn and schools are bad. Children are worse educated today than they were before state-level socialization, and worse yet under federal level. Subsidizing of corn has created a market for artificial corn syrup which they put in everything because it's cheap. They even put corn in fuel which cucks everything about an internal combustion engine.

Taxation is theft. Socialism is coercion.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:36:54 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy. I believe that's the only reason they haven't been heavily pushing for socialized medicine is because when the bill hits the floor everyone in the bottom half will have to sacrifice a bit for it.

View Quote

That's their plan. It's a lot easier to sell communism when everyone is poor.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:37:22 PM EDT

[#21]

Socialism is great,till you run out of other peoples money.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:37:41 PM EDT

[#22]

Do any of you really believe we'll ever have a majority large enough to ram through healthcare reforms that will actually reverse this fucked up system we have now? I don't. I think we lost the battle for affordable free market healthcare before I was born .

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:38:39 PM EDT

[#23]

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:39:28 PM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

Unless she was almost dead, you don't get instant health care in Canada. Canada's socialized medicine is wait, wait, wait, wait and wait some more until they can see you. If you have severe pain, but not immediately deathly, they load you up with opioids until a spot opens up 3-6 months later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:39:39 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
They will have to. They can't tax the top half enough to pay that cost without destroying the economy.

I believe that's the only reason they haven't been heavily pushing for socialized medicine is because
when the bill hits the floor everyone in the bottom half will have to sacrifice a bit for it.

View Quote

You really haven't thought this through, have you?

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:39:45 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Do any of you really believe we'll ever have a majority large enough to ram through healthcare reforms that will actually reverse this fucked up system we have now? I don't. I think we lost the battle for affordable free market healthcare before I was born .

View Quote

Nope, it's never coming back. And now we have the absolute worst of both systems.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:40:09 PM EDT

[#27]

I think at this point our best bet is to be the ones dictating how socialized medicine will be paid for to make sure it's done through payroll tax like social security rather than a progressive income tax that will cripple our economy

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:40:18 PM EDT

[#28]

Two comments:
-I lived in Canada for almost a decade. Their health care system sucked.
-The "bottom half" is never going to pay shit. They will vote for what they want, and it will be given to them.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:42:31 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

Then go to the VA for our fine example of socialized medicine and one women in Canada proves adequate health care. I'm not so far from the Mayo Clinic, and if all the other shit out there was OK, why does everyone with money and a brain go there. Even the middle eastern leaders flock here for non socialized medicine. And find me a place in our system that supports anything socialized actually functions. Social Security, broke, Medicare broke this country is broke

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:44:21 PM EDT

[#30]

We won’t see free market.

We will see more .gov meddling & restrictions on doctors, how/what the can prescribe (like opiates for pain), cost containment re: operations, and flowcharts directing medical decisions & patient care.

I’m a doctor almost 25 years & cannot believe the absurd changes.

The .gov & regulatory agencies continue to portray medical decisions & patient care as easily directed by non-doctors like politicians & internet surfers & done cheaper by “physician extenders” and “mid-level practitioners.”

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:44:37 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
Ban all guns and Medicare for all

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Anbody that doesn’t think a national healthcare system won’t be used to monitor and regulate is an idiot. Letting American bureaucrats run public healthcare would be a disaster of epic proportions. Most of the foreign public healthcare schemes have never been fully funded, and are overblown and always looking to ration and cut. Unless your debt to GDP ratio is good your country can’t really afford it.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:44:58 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Do any of you really believe we'll ever have a majority large enough to ram through healthcare reforms that will actually reverse this fucked up system we have now? I don't. I think we lost the battle for affordable free market healthcare before I was born .

View Quote

You're falling for the trap. They want you to be so beaten down by the socialism that you think the only way out is more of it. What they dont want you to realize is that once they take it all the way over, you'll be paying even more, just to .Gov in the form of taxes instead of your doctor or insurance. The ones not paying now will still be not paying then.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:45:15 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
Socialism is great,till you run out of other peoples money.

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Pretty much this.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:48:00 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

Unless she was almost dead, you don't get instant health care in Canada. Canada's socialized medicine is wait, wait, wait, wait and wait some more until they can see you. If you have severe pain, but not immediately deathly, they load you up with opioids until a spot opens up 3-6 months later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

View Quote

This. And again it’s never been fully funded. Even the socialists in Canadian government have to consider cuts to their system.

You pay for healthcare whether it’s filtered through a government interface or not. The problem with the government interface is you also pay for those who aren’t paying and you are getting less for your money...

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:48:11 PM EDT

[#35]

We just did our annual sign up. The premiums went up the deductibles went up and some options were discontinued, but every other word was how much we would save.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:49:57 PM EDT

[#36]

I have two cousins that are doctors in Canada. Even they don't like the system. Both market to those Canadian citizens that have private insurance although they cannot turn away anyone. It is the private side that keep the doors open.

8+ years of schooling and they make no more than an accountant does here in the states.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:50:22 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
We just did our annual sign up. The premiums went up the deductibles went up and some options were discontinued, but every other word was how much we would save.

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And if you didn't sign up this year, how much would you save?

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:54:21 PM EDT

[#38]

I'm all for it. I see no way for private for-profit health insurance and health care providers to ever meet my needs. Between me, my wife, and our employers the total expense in premiums, deductibles, and maximum out-of-pocket leaves me in a position where anything more than a broken bone would be simply devastating. Like sell the house to avoid bankruptcy devastating. Fuck it. I'm all in. As far as I'm concerned, single payer isn't far enough. I want healthcare delivered in a manner similar to public education.

Schools, hospitals, and prisons - none should be operated for profit.

Say what you will, there's a reason the rest of the developed world and most of the developing world have government-provided health care for all.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:55:12 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
I'm all for it. I see no way for private for-profit health insurance and health care providers to ever meet my needs. Between me, my wife, and our employers the total expense in premiums, deductibles, and maximum out-of-pocket leaves me in a position where anything more than a broken bone would be simply devastating. Like sell the house to avoid bankruptcy devastating. Fuck it. I'm all in. As far as I'm concerned, single payer isn't far enough. I want healthcare delivered in a manner similar to public education.

Schools, hospitals, and prisons - none should be operated for profit.

Say what you will, there's a reason the rest of the developed world and most of the developing world have government-provided health care for all.

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Derp.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:55:19 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
~~Ban all guns and~~ Medicare for all

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I'm in. Let's roll.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:55:35 PM EDT

[#41]

What are you smoking? If they aren't paying income tax now, they sure as hell won't be paying any when yours goes up.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:56:01 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

Name 1 innovative surgical procedure in the last 20 years that came out of a country that has socialized medicine. There is a reason our life expectancy is over 78 years now and it damn sure isn’t because of Canada.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:57:08 PM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

Talk about uneducated, and here we have the classic Socialist fool. No, I paid my way through college and paid in cash. No loans. My kids were never in a public school. They were homeschooled and well educated. They paid for their college in full too. They didn't spend their summers playing at the pool. They all had summer jobs and saved their money. We raise and grow much of our food and provide some produce to other family and friends. Grandchildren are learning to do the same. Yes, socialism sucks and is inherently bankrupt. So when the freebees run out and no more tits to suck off of, what ya gone do, Karl?

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:59:32 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
Derp.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm all for it. I see no way for private for-profit health insurance and health care providers to ever meet my needs. Between me, my wife, and our employers the total expense in premiums, deductibles, and maximum out-of-pocket leaves me in a position where anything more than a broken bone would be simply devastating. Like sell the house to avoid bankruptcy devastating. Fuck it. I'm all in. As far as I'm concerned, single payer isn't far enough. I want healthcare delivered in a manner similar to public education.

Schools, hospitals, and prisons - none should be operated for profit.

Say what you will, there's a reason the rest of the developed world and most of the developing world have government-provided health care for all.

Derp.

I'll keep on derpin' all the derp long day on this one. Fuck it. Show me one sensible alternative that doesn't end in financial ruin for 80% of the US for any kind of major medical event and maybe I'll change my tune. Until then, I'll happily derp de derp de derp derp because the alternative is just not acceptable.

Posted: 12/18/2018 7:59:52 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

View Quote

You clearly don't have any friends or family in the US healthcare system.

Posted: 12/18/2018 8:00:40 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
When did we ever have free market health care?

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1920s

Posted: 12/18/2018 8:01:12 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
There are more MRI machines in Manhattan than all of Canada.
Getting an appointment for one take up to 6 months depending on the circumstances ...... still think socialized medicine is great

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a good friend in Canada. She had severe abdominal pains, that evening she was in surgery.

You will never convince me that socialized medicine is bad.
Anyone who believes big money should be behind healthcare is a fucking fool.

Socialism bad right?! But you sure eat them socialized corn and put your kids in a public school! The truth is, some socialized programs are a good thing. But go ahead and gnash your teeth and spout more uneducated nonsense.

There are more MRI machines in Manhattan than all of Canada.
Getting an appointment for one take up to 6 months depending on the circumstances ...... still think socialized medicine is great

Populations, how do they work?

Posted: 12/18/2018 8:02:18 PM EDT

[#48]

Medical advancement will definitely stall if we socialize medicine . Are we already past the point of diminishing returns on that though? How fucking long can we live? We are already cheating nearly all of the causes of death other than cancer old age and self inflicted disease .

The only realistic argument against it at this point is of you believe we can undo the last half century or regulation and healthcare law.

People have to pay their medical bills or not get service to have a sustainable free market. I don't think even moderate Republicans will ever side with the idea that if you don't pay you don't get treatment even if it drastically reduces the cost.

I think we are fucked on this issue at the end of the day and the best we can do is try and actually make the bottom half pay their fair share of it as a condition of instituting it.