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Link Posted: 5/24/2021 11:39:51 AM EST
[#1]
Just bought a home built 2001.  It is an attached villa with adequate insulation.  1760 ft^2, single story with full basement [part of which is finished].  The furnace and water heater are original.  It has natural gas service.  

I need to replace them both.  

What do I need to know?  

What system would you recommend?

Thanks



fnh
Link Posted: 8/6/2021 7:54:06 PM EST
[#2]
what's the consensus on polarized media HVAC system air filters vs normal "paper" filters?

I talked to a furnace company about options to reduce dust / improve air quality and they suggested this thing with a polarized media filter and UV light.

I'm skeptical vs having a 4" high merv air filter.
Link Posted: 5/2/2022 10:49:41 PM EST
[#3]
Does anyone have familiarity with the Mitsubishi hyper heat S Series? I live in SEPA and was wanting to get the hyper heat to remain efficient at low temps. That said, I have called several Mitsubishi diamond elite installers and not one of them seems keen on/ knowledgeable enough to recommend a ducted Mitsubishi solution. Is it that the Mitsubishi ducted system not worth pursuing or is it just that Mitsubishi is not well established in my area? Any help is appreciated.
Link Posted: 5/2/2022 11:34:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: ZW17] [#4]
Link Posted: 5/10/2022 1:26:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: polishkebasa] [#5]
Interesting read, my 1995 Goodman unit just started pushing war air, its been acting up  a bit for the last couple months (bit noisy, runs more than ususal etc). Really debating on even bothering to gave some diagnose it at this point, I just had someone come out and quote it at 5300 for a 2.5 ton seer 14 goodman or a seer 14 carrier with a new hurricane pad and plywood in the closet.

Any thoughts about trying to fix the old unit (r-22 btw) or just giving it up. The only rebates locally for me are 150 for a seer 16 unit so i will have to look into that but I doubt I will like the price.
Link Posted: 5/10/2022 1:55:44 PM EST
[#6]
Link Posted: 5/10/2022 11:40:30 PM EST
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Give up on the R22 system unless the repair is only a couple of hundred bucks or less.

R22 is getting out of hand.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By polishkebasa:
Interesting read, my 1995 Goodman unit just started pushing war air, its been acting up  a bit for the last couple months (bit noisy, runs more than ususal etc). Really debating on even bothering to gave some diagnose it at this point, I just had someone come out and quote it at 5300 for a 2.5 ton seer 14 goodman or a seer 14 carrier with a new hurricane pad and plywood in the closet.

Any thoughts about trying to fix the old unit (r-22 btw) or just giving it up. The only rebates locally for me are 150 for a seer 16 unit so i will have to look into that but I doubt I will like the price.


Give up on the R22 system unless the repair is only a couple of hundred bucks or less.

R22 is getting out of hand.


Yeah that's what I thought, the guy said it was like 1000 bucks per jug(whatever that is). Seeing about 400 bucks for 10lbs on ebay but unsure on what it used to be.
Link Posted: 5/11/2022 3:52:53 PM EST
[#8]
Link Posted: 5/11/2022 5:16:45 PM EST
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By polishkebasa:


Yeah that's what I thought, the guy said it was like 1000 bucks per jug(whatever that is). Seeing about 400 bucks for 10lbs on ebay but unsure on what it used to be.
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Originally Posted By polishkebasa:
Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By polishkebasa:
Interesting read, my 1995 Goodman unit just started pushing war air, its been acting up  a bit for the last couple months (bit noisy, runs more than ususal etc). Really debating on even bothering to gave some diagnose it at this point, I just had someone come out and quote it at 5300 for a 2.5 ton seer 14 goodman or a seer 14 carrier with a new hurricane pad and plywood in the closet.

Any thoughts about trying to fix the old unit (r-22 btw) or just giving it up. The only rebates locally for me are 150 for a seer 16 unit so i will have to look into that but I doubt I will like the price.


Give up on the R22 system unless the repair is only a couple of hundred bucks or less.

R22 is getting out of hand.


Yeah that's what I thought, the guy said it was like 1000 bucks per jug(whatever that is). Seeing about 400 bucks for 10lbs on ebay but unsure on what it used to be.



I've heard 407c can be substituted for R22 if your only other option is a new unit it might be worth a shot.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202458629881?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338767613&toolid=20006&customid=4581596248650291_377867555

Link Posted: 5/11/2022 10:12:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: Bcamp15] [#10]
Glad I found this thread. Bought our new home a couple months ago and finally got the easy Reno's like floors and paint done and just moved in last Friday.

We have an old r22 system. Everything checked out on it today, but it does not cool the whole house evenly. And to add to it, we've got mold growing in the old ducts. So either way, I'm going to be doing a full replacement here soon. Got my first quote today.

First turn off was no calcs. Just running with the same 5 ton size currently installed (2656sf). Second was the prices (I've never had to replace an hvac system before so I am nave).

1. 16 SEER 5 ton carrier system single stage with new r6 ducting = $17,169

2. "Up to" 18 SEER 5 ton daikan variable speed system with r8 ducting = $22,160

3. 21? SEER 5 ton carrier 5 stage with r8 ducting = $24,960

Whew, those numbers hurt. That's just the first estimate, which I feel like may be high. Going to get a bunch more and also going to ask about the calcs before I even schedule future appts.

Eta: they were pushing 2 hard. It also comes with a 12 year equipment and labor warranty, which seems pretty damn good.
Link Posted: 5/12/2022 12:26:04 PM EST
[#11]
Link Posted: 5/12/2022 12:29:37 PM EST
[#12]
Link Posted: 5/12/2022 8:37:54 PM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Rule #1 was broken... No heat loss/gain survey completed.

File that estimate as reference only, they would not be doing the work in my home.

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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By Bcamp15:
Glad I found this thread. Bought our new home a couple months ago and finally got the easy Reno's like floors and paint done and just moved in last Friday.

We have an old r22 system. Everything checked out on it today, but it does not cool the whole house evenly. And to add to it, we've got mold growing in the old ducts. So either way, I'm going to be doing a full replacement here soon. Got my first quote today.

First turn off was no calcs. Just running with the same 5 ton size currently installed (2656sf). Second was the prices (I've never had to replace an hvac system before so I am nave).

1. 16 SEER 5 ton carrier system single stage with new r6 ducting = $17,169

2. "Up to" 18 SEER 5 ton daikan variable speed system with r8 ducting = $22,160

3. 21? SEER 5 ton carrier 5 stage with r8 ducting = $24,960

Whew, those numbers hurt. That's just the first estimate, which I feel like may be high. Going to get a bunch more and also going to ask about the calcs before I even schedule future appts.

Eta: they were pushing 2 hard. It also comes with a 12 year equipment and labor warranty, which seems pretty damn good.


Rule #1 was broken... No heat loss/gain survey completed.

File that estimate as reference only, they would not be doing the work in my home.


Those calculations are a lot of "rule of thumb" type things. If you have an existing structure and based on the last 15-20 years, say a 3 ton unit worked well at keeping the temperature and humidity in check. Why would you deviate from that regardless of the calculations?  

For reference, I had a 3.5 ton unit that the calcs said was fine but based on experience as the owner, I knew it was undersized. I ended up with a 2 speed, 4 ton compressor which works great but I would not want less capacity.
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 10:59:52 AM EST
[#14]
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 12:42:56 PM EST
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By not_sure:

Those calculations are a lot of "rule of thumb" type things. If you have an existing structure and based on the last 15-20 years, say a 3 ton unit worked well at keeping the temperature and humidity in check. Why would you deviate from that regardless of the calculations?  

For reference, I had a 3.5 ton unit that the calcs said was fine but based on experience as the owner, I knew it was undersized. I ended up with a 2 speed, 4 ton compressor which works great but I would not want less capacity.
View Quote


I'm curious, how did you know?
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 4:03:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: not_sure] [#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ohiogators:


I'm curious, how did you know?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ohiogators:
Originally Posted By not_sure:

Those calculations are a lot of "rule of thumb" type things. If you have an existing structure and based on the last 15-20 years, say a 3 ton unit worked well at keeping the temperature and humidity in check. Why would you deviate from that regardless of the calculations?  

For reference, I had a 3.5 ton unit that the calcs said was fine but based on experience as the owner, I knew it was undersized. I ended up with a 2 speed, 4 ton compressor which works great but I would not want less capacity.


I'm curious, how did you know?

Because it did not cool the house enough.  It could drop the temperature maybe 1 degree per hour, sometimes less.
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 4:27:21 PM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Please look up ACCA manual J.

It’s widely used by every single engineering firm out there and is an exact science to size HVAC equipment.

There is nothing “rule of thumb” about it. It’s the gold standard practice in the industry.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By not_sure:

Those calculations are a lot of "rule of thumb" type things. If you have an existing structure and based on the last 15-20 years, say a 3 ton unit worked well at keeping the temperature and humidity in check. Why would you deviate from that regardless of the calculations?  

For reference, I had a 3.5 ton unit that the calcs said was fine but based on experience as the owner, I knew it was undersized. I ended up with a 2 speed, 4 ton compressor which works great but I would not want less capacity.


Please look up ACCA manual J.

It’s widely used by every single engineering firm out there and is an exact science to size HVAC equipment.

There is nothing “rule of thumb” about it. It’s the gold standard practice in the industry.

I have actually done those calculations.  (back in the 90's)

Do you actually know how much insulation is in a wall and how well it is preforming?  How much air leakage you have?  How good are the windows, do they actually measure the size of each one? Yeah there is a number in the book for them but it isn't going to be dead on.  It is the best estimation of what the loads will be, kind of like FEA.  It is a mathematical model of reality not reality itself, again like FEA.  Statistics are another model of reality that get misunderstood.  

Back to my house, the calculation said 3.5 tons was the correct size.  Two different contractors plus the original guy came to the same number.  Reality said I needed a bigger unit.
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 5:01:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: ZW17] [#18]
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 8:01:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: TexasDoubleTap] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bcamp15:
Glad I found this thread. Bought our new home a couple months ago and finally got the easy Reno's like floors and paint done and just moved in last Friday.

We have an old r22 system. Everything checked out on it today, but it does not cool the whole house evenly. And to add to it, we've got mold growing in the old ducts. So either way, I'm going to be doing a full replacement here soon. Got my first quote today.

First turn off was no calcs. Just running with the same 5 ton size currently installed (2656sf). Second was the prices (I've never had to replace an hvac system before so I am nave).

1. 16 SEER 5 ton carrier system single stage with new r6 ducting = $17,169

2. "Up to" 18 SEER 5 ton daikan variable speed system with r8 ducting = $22,160

3. 21? SEER 5 ton carrier 5 stage with r8 ducting = $24,960

Whew, those numbers hurt. That's just the first estimate, which I feel like may be high. Going to get a bunch more and also going to ask about the calcs before I even schedule future appts.

Eta: they were pushing 2 hard. It also comes with a 12 year equipment and labor warranty, which seems pretty damn good.
View Quote
Those numbers are accurate. The 5 ton Daikin FIT itself goes for ~15k installed in my area.

EtA If you go Daikin FIT ask them to run communication wires in conduit. A solid 90% of the issues we had early on were from poor communication runs.
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 8:29:47 PM EST
[#20]
I ran direct burial 7 conductor underground 18 gauge sprinkler wires 9 years ago on my communicating Goodmans. Worked out great.
Link Posted: 5/13/2022 9:21:05 PM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By not_sure:

I have actually done those calculations.  (back in the 90's)

Do you actually know how much insulation is in a wall and how well it is preforming?  How much air leakage you have?  How good are the windows, do they actually measure the size of each one? Yeah there is a number in the book for them but it isn't going to be dead on.  It is the best estimation of what the loads will be, kind of like FEA.  It is a mathematical model of reality not reality itself, again like FEA.  Statistics are another model of reality that get misunderstood.  

Back to my house, the calculation said 3.5 tons was the correct size.  Two different contractors plus the original guy came to the same number.  Reality said I needed a bigger unit.
View Quote



Sounds like someone wasn't inputting accurate information.
Link Posted: 6/27/2022 10:45:04 AM EST
[#22]
anybody have input/suggestions/experience with ecobee thermostats and 2stage units? if this isnt the place for this type of question, lemme know and i'll gtfo

i just had a 5ton 2stage American Standard installed for my downstairs to replace an ancient dying goodman and have the downstairs ecobee recognizing the 2 stages and kicking them on in auto mode.

it seems to be running stage 1 first and then stage 2 when it needs additional help. is there anything to be gained by messing with the settings and taking it out of auto mode? anybody have a similar set of equipment they've been tinkering with?
Link Posted: 6/28/2022 3:23:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: SR712] [#23]
No Ecobee, but I do have two units with 2-stage A/C with 2-stage Heat. About the only thing you could change would be the "deadband" between stage 1 and stage 2. I like my temps pretty tight, so I have only 1 degree deadband between stages. I still hardly ever see the second stage kick in.

I have Venstar ColorTouch thermostats. These settings are configurable in setup on the thermostat, or through the cloud based app.
Link Posted: 6/28/2022 4:37:39 PM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Infamous:
anybody have input/suggestions/experience with ecobee thermostats and 2stage units? if this isnt the place for this type of question, lemme know and i'll gtfo

i just had a 5ton 2stage American Standard installed for my downstairs to replace an ancient dying goodman and have the downstairs ecobee recognizing the 2 stages and kicking them on in auto mode.

it seems to be running stage 1 first and then stage 2 when it needs additional help. is there anything to be gained by messing with the settings and taking it out of auto mode? anybody have a similar set of equipment they've been tinkering with?
View Quote


Just let it do it's job. Most 2nd stages are only used IF NEEDED. If they aren't, they won't jump from first to second.
Link Posted: 6/29/2022 12:00:37 PM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fxntime:


Just let it do it's job. Most 2nd stages are only used IF NEEDED. If they aren't, they won't jump from first to second.
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Originally Posted By fxntime:


Just let it do it's job. Most 2nd stages are only used IF NEEDED. If they aren't, they won't jump from first to second.

Originally Posted By SR712:
No Ecobee, but I do have two units with 2-stage A/C with 2-stage Heat. About the only thing you could change would be the "deadband" between stage 1 and stage 2. I like my temps pretty tight, so I have only 1 degree deadband between stages. I still hardly ever see the second stage kick in.

I have Venstar ColorTouch thermostats. These settings are configurable in setup on the thermostat, or through the cloud based app.


thanks ! i will keep it auto where it is right now
Link Posted: 9/27/2022 5:06:34 PM EST
[#26]
Any experience with Bryant vs Trane? Local HVAC guy primarily deals with those two brands. My limited research shows Bryant is owned also by Carrier (or their parent company).

Link Posted: 9/27/2022 5:33:21 PM EST
[#27]
Link Posted: 9/27/2022 6:20:53 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Trane in my opinion is top of the line. It’s what I installed in my own home.

Bryant is also good. It is a Carrier company. In fact it’s exactly a Carrier with a different name on the equipment.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx:
Any experience with Bryant vs Trane? Local HVAC guy primarily deals with those two brands. My limited research shows Bryant is owned also by Carrier (or their parent company).



Trane in my opinion is top of the line. It’s what I installed in my own home.

Bryant is also good. It is a Carrier company. In fact it’s exactly a Carrier with a different name on the equipment.


So, you pay for the brand with carrier,  not necessarily better equipment vs Bryant?
Link Posted: 9/27/2022 7:52:13 PM EST
[#29]
Link Posted: 10/4/2022 8:27:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: FlyLeaf] [#30]
How much does a entire new hvac heat pump system cost installed? New duct work,16 seer outdoor unit,new air handler, etc. 1650 sqft single story house. Previous owners just didnt take care of the system.

Was quoted $17,000 from 1st company saying ductwork alone was $9000, rest of equipment  American Standard was $8200. 3 ton

What is typical price range on something like this?
Link Posted: 10/4/2022 10:39:46 PM EST
[#31]
Link Posted: 10/8/2022 2:00:38 PM EST
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Go back and read the original thread.

This is covered in there.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By FlyLeaf:
How much does a entire new hvac heat pump system cost installed? New duct work,16 seer outdoor unit,new air handler, etc. 1650 sqft single story house. Previous owners just didnt take care of the system.

Was quoted $17,000 from 1st company saying ductwork alone was $9000, rest of equipment  American Standard was $8200. 3 ton

What is typical price range on something like this?


Go back and read the original thread.

This is covered in there.


Thanks,went back and reread everything.

Got a better quote from another company that wasnt trying to up sell me

16 seer variable speed American Standard 3 ton with American Standard air handler,new ductwork.
Basically an entire new system as the previous owners neglected it for years.

Much appreciated, you saved me @$4500-5000
Link Posted: 10/8/2022 4:52:57 PM EST
[#33]
Link Posted: 10/8/2022 5:03:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: Bohr_Adam] [#34]
Ah, an HVAC guy...

Living in Europe and Asia spoiled me for being able to customize temperature in individual rooms.

Residential ductwork is apparently extremely rare outside of the U.S., but radiators and floor heating are adjustable, and air conditioning is often multiple split units in rooms with outside walls (based loosely on which het hottest from solar heating, best I could tell).

That being said - are there design or owner activity (close ducts/vents) that amount to "best practices" to minimize the problem of rooms that get too hot or too cold?

The HVAC guys I've talked to around here just look at me like I have a penis on my forehead, but we have a rarely used guest bedroom that gets painfully got if the heat is up enough to make the master bedroom comfortable (and similar issues in the summer).

I had one guy claim I just needed a "smart" thermostat. Still can't figure out what that meant, there's only one source of heat/cold.

If I ever build my own place, are there solutions to minimize this that don't often get used in the name of cost-effectiveness?
Link Posted: 10/8/2022 7:30:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: ZW17] [#35]
Link Posted: 10/8/2022 7:52:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: TexasDoubleTap] [#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Good question...

A super critical component that is almost always overlooked in residential HVAC is airflow balancing. Air is like water, it flows to the place of least resistance. There is no substitute to a properly balanced system. Each room needs the proper amount of airflow (thus BTUs) of conditioned air to properly heat or cool it. Anything more or less and it will be uncomfortable. I don't know of a single residential company that does proper air balancing, it's exclusively done in the commercial end of the trade here. It takes specialized equipment and training.

One option you have for unused areas is duct zoning or zone controls. Those rooms would have their own t-stat and a damper would open/close based off demand from that stat. Again, these systems are touchy and need to be set up properly.

The last option is the hillbilly option.... On your t-stat you have the fan on/auto setting or switch. Auto means the blower comes on when there is a call for heat or cooling. On means the blower runs 24/7/365. Turn it on, this will stir up the air in between cycles and help even out the various rooms temperatures. It's going to cost some more to run that blower all the time, but it will help, and it will filter the air all the time as a bonus.

Hope this helps.

ETA- VRF (variable refrigerant flow) technology which is huge in Europe and Asia, is just becoming popular here in the states. In my limited experience with it, it's got a lot of flaws and is unreliable. I'd give it time to work the bugs out.
View Quote
We meter air into each room and are 95% residential. But we are also run by a hvac savant and family owned. Every house gets a heat load run. We pass on jobs for people who want us to shorhorn in a system onto old shitty improperly designed ductwork.

We have a cfm hood we put over the register and they adjust dampers to hit the cfm calculated for each room.

I couldn't have landed in a more squared away conpany.

VRF, we uninstalled a Mitsubishi ducted system because the VRF tech was borked at the firmware level and boards are 9 months out. Replaced it with a Daikin FIT at our expense.
Link Posted: 10/8/2022 8:14:13 PM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:

On means the blower runs 24/7/365. Turn it on, this will stir up the air in between cycles and help even out the various rooms temperatures. It's going to cost some more to run that blower all the time, but it will help, and it will filter the air all the time as a bonus.

View Quote

That is what I do and use a MERV 11 media filter.  I also have an old house with tall ceilings and basically no insulation so the constant airflow is really needed to equalize the temperature.

That brings my question, how do the mini-splits or multi-splits filter the air?  Seems like there would be little to no filtering.  Then do you have to change filters or wash a screen every month to keep the air flow up?
Link Posted: 10/9/2022 7:56:00 AM EST
[#38]
Link Posted: 10/9/2022 10:43:42 AM EST
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:


Good question...

A super critical component that is almost always overlooked in residential HVAC is airflow balancing. Air is like water, it flows to the place of least resistance. There is no substitute to a properly balanced system. Each room needs the proper amount of airflow (thus BTUs) of conditioned air to properly heat or cool it. Anything more or less and it will be uncomfortable. I don’t know of a single residential company that does proper air balancing, it’s exclusively done in the commercial end of the trade here. It takes specialized equipment and training.

One option you have for unused areas is duct zoning or zone controls. Those rooms would have their own t-stat and a damper would open/close based off demand from that stat. Again, these systems are touchy and need to be set up properly.

The last option is the hillbilly option.... On your t-stat you have the fan on/auto setting or switch. Auto means the blower comes on when there is a call for heat or cooling. On means the blower runs 24/7/365. Turn it on, this will stir up the air in between cycles and help even out the various rooms temperatures. It’s going to cost some more to run that blower all the time, but it will help, and it will filter the air all the time as a bonus.

Hope this helps.

ETA- VRF (variable refrigerant flow) technology which is huge in Europe and Asia, is just becoming popular here in the states. In my limited experience with it, it’s got a lot of flaws and is unreliable. I’d give it time to work the bugs out.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
Ah, an HVAC guy...

Living in Europe and Asia spoiled me for being able to customize temperature in individual rooms.

Residential ductwork is apparently extremely rare outside of the U.S., but radiators and floor heating are adjustable, and air conditioning is often multiple split units in rooms with outside walls (based loosely on which het hottest from solar heating, best I could tell).

That being said - are there design or owner activity (close ducts/vents) that amount to "best practices" to minimize the problem of rooms that get too hot or too cold?

The HVAC guys I've talked to around here just look at me like I have a penis on my forehead, but we have a rarely used guest bedroom that gets painfully got if the heat is up enough to make the master bedroom comfortable (and similar issues in the summer).

I had one guy claim I just needed a "smart" thermostat. Still can't figure out what that meant, there's only one source of heat/cold.

If I ever build my own place, are there solutions to minimize this that don't often get used in the name of cost-effectiveness?


Good question...

A super critical component that is almost always overlooked in residential HVAC is airflow balancing. Air is like water, it flows to the place of least resistance. There is no substitute to a properly balanced system. Each room needs the proper amount of airflow (thus BTUs) of conditioned air to properly heat or cool it. Anything more or less and it will be uncomfortable. I don’t know of a single residential company that does proper air balancing, it’s exclusively done in the commercial end of the trade here. It takes specialized equipment and training.

One option you have for unused areas is duct zoning or zone controls. Those rooms would have their own t-stat and a damper would open/close based off demand from that stat. Again, these systems are touchy and need to be set up properly.

The last option is the hillbilly option.... On your t-stat you have the fan on/auto setting or switch. Auto means the blower comes on when there is a call for heat or cooling. On means the blower runs 24/7/365. Turn it on, this will stir up the air in between cycles and help even out the various rooms temperatures. It’s going to cost some more to run that blower all the time, but it will help, and it will filter the air all the time as a bonus.

Hope this helps.

ETA- VRF (variable refrigerant flow) technology which is huge in Europe and Asia, is just becoming popular here in the states. In my limited experience with it, it’s got a lot of flaws and is unreliable. I’d give it time to work the bugs out.


Interesting insight, thanks.

I might check out what kind of difference running the blower makes in the rooms... and in the power bill.
Link Posted: 10/9/2022 11:28:46 AM EST
[#40]
Link Posted: 10/9/2022 12:19:48 PM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ZW17:


They have very cheap thin washable filters in them. They do a poor job at air filtration.

They recently came out with bipolar ionization for mini split systems for the C19 “crisis”. At least it’s something although my limited experience with BPI says it may be a sham product. Not a lot of testing by name brand labs and groups to make me comfortable telling people it does what it claims.
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Originally Posted By ZW17:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:

That is what I do and use a MERV 11 media filter.  I also have an old house with tall ceilings and basically no insulation so the constant airflow is really needed to equalize the temperature.

That brings my question, how do the mini-splits or multi-splits filter the air?  Seems like there would be little to no filtering.  Then do you have to change filters or wash a screen every month to keep the air flow up?


They have very cheap thin washable filters in them. They do a poor job at air filtration.

They recently came out with bipolar ionization for mini split systems for the C19 “crisis”. At least it’s something although my limited experience with BPI says it may be a sham product. Not a lot of testing by name brand labs and groups to make me comfortable telling people it does what it claims.


Yes, usually just plastic mesh-like screens that you slide out and vacuum/rinse off every so often. They're more like the lint screen in a clothes dryer than American HVAC filters.

Another huge problem is humidity management, since the whole house isn't centralized, that rarely-used guest bedroom can become a mold magnet of you don't do something else to manage the humidity - a painful lesson to learn that U.S.-style HVAC makes very unlikely.

Link Posted: 11/6/2022 8:07:46 PM EST
[#42]
Hey guys, hope this is the right place for this.
I had some weird issues with my hvac system last month, I was out of town for work so the Mrs called around, we could only find one place willing to come out and look at it (we live a long way out of town). Ended up being a failing t-stat, he got it to work and recommended replacement. While he was here, we had him check the system out and service things.
The house was built in 2007, apparently the unit is a 2003. Everything is ok, other than on start up the compressor is pulling almost 2.5x the rated amps. He recommended a hard start kit and to start shopping for a new system as the cost to refill the R22 or convert will cost as much or more than a new system.
Apparently, CA only allows one repair per year on a R22 system, and refrigerant pricing is through the roof.
This is a stand up company that has been around a long time in the area, and I tend to trust what he tells us.
I'm in a hot part of CA, we run the AC here 6 months out of the year and heat about 4 months, nothing needed the rest of the year.
I have a propane furnace and I believe it's  a 3.5 ton ac unit, 2200 sqft house, well insulated other than the doors (they don't fit the frames well and leave some gaps top and bottom, I replace the gaskets every year but they get tore up fast).

The question is should I convert to a heat pump system with propane back up (it gets down in the 20s here in the winter) or a 2 stage or something similar to what I currently have? Electrical rates are stupid high here, so I'm looking for something economical to run.
Typically we keep the house between 76 and 78 in the summer and 68 in the winter, just because the cost is so damn high to run. It's not uncommon to have a $1400 electric bill in the summer and a $200 winter bill.
I'm limited on installers due to where we are at, I can probably get 2 quotes but more than that is going to be difficult at best. But that's a whole separate issue for me to work out.

Any help is appreciated, thanks.
Link Posted: 12/7/2022 7:39:56 PM EST
[#43]
Oh boy, here sstwe go!  Have I got some questions!!!

We are in the middle of building a new home.  I spent some big bucks to significantly upgrade the HVAC system from the basic Coleman system the General was going to install to a Daikin VRV system.  I wanted quiet, efficient, and mutliple zones for independent control in the master and the home theater room. The heat pump is I believe a 5 ton unit, and it runs to a 4.5 ton indoor air handler with an electric back up furnace attached, as well as two smaller mini split heads in the two rooms mentioned above.

We have had a week or so of snow, with lots of wet and cold conditions.  There is water dripping from the roof onto the heat pump outside.  The unit frosted up quite badly, with snow and ice covering almost the entirety of the cooling fins.  It was that way for 48 hours before I could get any quidance from the builder/installer. I had to manually put the system into AC mode for about 45 minutes to get the ice to melt away, and so far, it hasn't come back. Should this worry me?

The air handler documentation says it runs up to 1520cfm.  The return air duct has a filter housing right before it enters the air handler, and they made it up to accept only a 20x20x1" filter.  This seems pretty small to me, should I be bothered by this?

When asked about installing a larger (2" or 4" thick) filter, the OWNER of the HVAC company told me that the thicker filter would increase the 'static' on the system, and cause the motor to run hotter.  I called him back and told him I was pretty sure I heard him wrong, but he stuck firmly to his opinion that a thicker pleated filter is more restrictive to airflow than the 1" pleated filter currently installed.  I'm pretty sure he's bass ackwards on this one...

Oh, and today, the system tripped the 40 amp circuit breaker feeding the outdoor heat pump from the house main panel TWICE.  HVAC company advised me to open the breakers to all components (4 breakers in main panel) for 5 minutes and reset.  It seems to be working since then, but I'm not feeling so good about it.

The return air comes from two main ducts, one from upstairs and one from downstairs.  They combine into one 20x20 about two feet before entering the air handler.  The duct from downstairs is only about 6' long, then dumps directly into the duct coming from upstairs at a 90 degree angle with visible 1" sharp edges on the inside.  DB readings taken at the return air duct opening into the downstairs room are 68-70 db.  DB readings in the utility room right next to the air handler are closer to 60db and at the outdoor heat pump (running full speed) are more like 65.  I'm not very happy with the noise level inside the house coming from that return duct.  Is this fixable without lengthening the downstairs return air duct (too late for that)?


I'm afraid I spent the big bucks on high end equipment, but may have ended up with a substandard install.
Link Posted: 12/8/2022 1:24:44 PM EST
[#44]
How long does it take to measure the heat loss/gain for a5k sqft house?
Link Posted: 12/8/2022 5:46:55 PM EST
[#45]
Link Posted: 12/8/2022 5:48:24 PM EST
[#46]
Link Posted: 12/8/2022 5:49:00 PM EST
[#47]
Link Posted: 12/10/2022 3:35:45 PM EST
[#48]
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Originally Posted By ZW17:


@Aspp

I am hoping this simple, but affective, calculator helps you make some decisions.

http://hvacopcost.com/
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Thank you. Looks like an ROI of 3.5-5 years no matter what system I use.
Link Posted: 1/16/2023 9:46:40 PM EST
[#49]
hows lennox quality these days? Trying to be proactive on the replacement of my 27 year old pulse furnace and 30 year old ac.

propane 96% 2 stage furnace and single stage 16 seer ac is what i'm looking at.

so far i've got lennox, carrier, and trane.
Link Posted: 1/29/2023 8:46:33 PM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By blackx-runner:
hows lennox quality these days? Trying to be proactive on the replacement of my 27 year old pulse furnace and 30 year old ac.

propane 96% 2 stage furnace and single stage 16 seer ac is what i'm looking at.

so far i've got lennox, carrier, and trane.
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I have the same question. I'm looking to get install going ASAP.
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