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8/16/2022 4:37:09 PM
Posted: 6/3/2022 4:59:08 PM EDT
I get it freedom it is their money and all that but so many people dont have the discipline to keep their grubby fingers off their damn money for retirement. I have set up a generous matching retirement program for my employees and every last one of them cleans it out whenever they have enough money in there to buy whatever the fuck they want that is cool. I set these guys up to be millionaires or damn close when they retire if they just stayed the course but once they get 10k or so in their retirement account they just can't fucking resist and then they cash it out, bitch about the taxes and penalties they have to pay, etc and start over from square one.

In theory I say fuck em they made their bed they can sleep in it but we all know how our society works those who have discipline and are responsible end up paying for those who are not so I am all for people not being able to touch their retirement until they are retirement age.
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 5:04:06 PM EDT
[#1]
While I agree with the sentiment, it's their money. Freedom is a bitch.
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 5:32:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: seamasterpro] [#2]
*looks at avatar* sounds like some treading to me

I know people just like that, its dumb, but its their money
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 6:12:17 PM EDT
[#3]
I know it’s nice to say “I set them up with”, as if it was charity, but it was just part of their compensation package.  


It’s a business, not a fiefdom.  You aren’t responsible for them, and they aren’t to you.
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 6:27:09 PM EDT
[#4]
I appreciate the generous percentage of 401K matching my employer provides.   I started my 401K in my mid 20's, have 10x of my current yearly wages squirreled away, and have never touched a dime of it.
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 9:02:52 PM EDT
[#5]
If the money is going towards homesteading, rental properties, and other means of early retirement self-sufficiency I would say "smart guys, past performance doesn't guarantee future results. Just look at the Nikkei index that peaked in 19 fricken 89" but most likely the money is being frittered away on rapidity depreciating shiny toys, vacations, and dirty women. Either way if fully vested it's their money to save or take out and blow as they see fit.
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 9:37:52 PM EDT
[#6]
but once they get 10k or so in their retirement account they just can't fucking resist and then they cash it out, bitch about the taxes and penalties they have to pay, etc and start over from square one.
View Quote
And when they hit retirement age and find out how little social security pays they'll be bitching about how 'the rich' should be subsidizing their retirement 'cause they're poor.
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 10:26:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 11:04:27 PM EDT
[#8]
I am really torn between principle and reality. My idea of a free society and what we have aren’t the same. In my world people who fail to prepare should starve and die on the street but we know that doesn’t happen. One way or another the responsible citizens will pay for those who fail to plan so why not force them to. I wouldn’t give a fuck if Billy bob cashed out his retirement to but rims for his Camaro if you let his ass starve to death when he didn’t have money at 70 but if you are going to take my tax dollars to feed his ass in old age his careless spending concerns me.
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 11:15:14 PM EDT
[#9]
I can understand the sentiment, but this is the problem with society these days in which we can't just let people fail and allow others to learn from their mistakes.  

and honestly to hell with you wanting .gov to take away mine and others ability to control our own lives

if you wish to control your own employees' lives feel free and stop matching their retirement contributions.  that's between you and them, leave the rest of us out of it
Link Posted: 6/3/2022 11:21:50 PM EDT
[#10]
It's their money. They should be able to do whatever the fuck they want with it, and the government should keep their slimey, tyrannical hands off of it.
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 1:21:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: tooter] [#11]
The freedom to be smart
ALWAYS includes
the freedom to be stupid.
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 12:16:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: teamjawbox] [#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Doodlebug:
I am really torn between principle and reality. My idea of a free society and what we have aren’t the same. In my world people who fail to prepare should starve and die on the street but we know that doesn’t happen. One way or another the responsible citizens will pay for those who fail to plan so why not force them to. I wouldn’t give a fuck if Billy bob cashed out his retirement to but rims for his Camaro if you let his ass starve to death when he didn’t have money at 70 but if you are going to take my tax dollars to feed his ass in old age his careless spending concerns me.
View Quote


I agree with your sentiment again.  But the gov is gonna blow your tax dollars on something and always ask (aka take) more regardless.  If it isn't a handout to a bum it will be giving billions to some shit hole third world country.  Or funding development of a novel virus in China.  

Look at it this way, at least those few bucks would be staying in country
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 12:25:46 PM EDT
[#13]
They should be free to do it, however with the taxes/penalties it’s an extremely dumb financial move
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 8:04:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HEATSEAKER] [#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PewPewPew1212:
They should be free to do it, however with the taxes/penalties it’s an extremely dumb financial move
View Quote


It sure is. 59.5 will be here in a blink of an eye and they will have nothing to show for it. Will suck to have 7 more years of cursing at the alarm clock every morning with every fiber of their broken down body and being the old slow fuck at work that everyone pities/hates while waiting for SS to send them just enough to live in a van down by the river .

I talked a new hire into at least putting in the 6% the company will match 100%. Hell, just leave it in the money market fund if you don't want to gamble in stock funds. Where else can you continually get 100% risk free return on your investment. No brainer. Work some OT and it really builds up fast. Set it and forget it for 35 yrs. She later said she doesn't even notice that measly 6% being taken out every week.
Link Posted: 6/4/2022 9:07:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HEATSEAKER:


It sure is. 59.5 will be here in a blink of an eye and they will have nothing to show for it. Will suck to have 7 more years of cursing at the alarm clock every morning with every fiber of their broken down body and being the old slow fuck at work that everyone pities/hates while waiting for SS to send them just enough to live in a van down by the river .

I talked a new hire into at least putting in the 6% the company will match 100%. Hell, just leave it in the money market fund if you don't want to gamble in stock funds. Where else can you continually get 100% risk free return on your investment. No brainer. Work some OT and it really builds up fast. Set it and forget it for 35 yrs. She later said she doesn't even notice that measly 6% being taken out every week.
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I had a 457 b plan.  No matching, all your own but 3-5% pretax was truly un noticeable but I would still have to goad the young people into getting started.  My plan was bumping up my percentage with raises,....only marginally increase my take home but grow the funds.  

I retired at  52.  ( for now/ until I get bored or catch up on the homestead. )
Link Posted: 6/5/2022 7:07:39 AM EDT
[#16]
I have 3-5 employee's at any given time and since the beginning I have thought about setting up a matching retirement system. I have brought it up to all of them and none of them seem interested. I talked it over with my CPA several times and they have all said that in businesses like mine ( most Hires are between 20-30) most are a lost cause and they won't appreciate it or understand it.

they want the CASH on payday.

I've talked to my current employee's until I'm blue in the face.
Link Posted: 6/5/2022 9:35:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OKnativeson:
I have 3-5 employee's at any given time and since the beginning I have thought about setting up a matching retirement system. I have brought it up to all of them and none of them seem interested. I talked it over with my CPA several times and they have all said that in businesses like mine ( most Hires are between 20-30) most are a lost cause and they won't appreciate it or understand it.

they want the CASH on payday.

I've talked to my current employee's until I'm blue in the face.
View Quote

You could do a SEP IRA instead for them.  That way there is no reduction of the employee's paycheck, you just figure out year over year what your company can afford to contribute to it.
Link Posted: 6/5/2022 10:16:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Depends on whether the government is going to bail them out with welfare money when they get old and can't work. If that's likely then I don't think they should have access to the money. Unless they retire early due to a disability or something like that. I know so many people that make well over 100k and save the minimum for a match or save nothing or borrow against their 401ks for stupid crap. Why should I pay for them, when they retire with nothing?
Link Posted: 6/5/2022 12:37:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By wvar15:
Depends on whether the government is going to bail them out with welfare money when they get old and can't work. If that's likely then I don't think they should have access to the money. Unless they retire early due to a disability or something like that. I know so many people that make well over 100k and save the minimum for a match or save nothing or borrow against their 401ks for stupid crap. Why should I pay for them, when they retire with nothing?
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You shouldn't but you will pay (more) for their retirement as long as they have the majority vote in the near future (hint: they WILL based on changing demographics that favor socialism). SS and Medicare will also become even more means tested to help level out wealth inequality even though it was your paycheck that got raped against your will every week for 40yrs. Isn't democracy grand in a declining atheistic empire?  2 entitled layabout wolves and a lamb (you) voting on what to have for dinner.
Link Posted: 6/6/2022 8:15:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bubbles:

You could do a SEP IRA instead for them.  That way there is no reduction of the employee's paycheck, you just figure out year over year what your company can afford to contribute to it.
View Quote


I'm actually working on that now. we will see.
Link Posted: 6/11/2022 8:48:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OKnativeson:
I have 3-5 employee's at any given time and since the beginning I have thought about setting up a matching retirement system. I have brought it up to all of them and none of them seem interested. I talked it over with my CPA several times and they have all said that in businesses like mine ( most Hires are between 20-30) most are a lost cause and they won't appreciate it or understand it.

they want the CASH on payday.

I've talked to my current employee's until I'm blue in the face.
View Quote


Can you make it a mandatory deduction on a rising rate until they max out the match? My company does that at a 1% rate each year until they meet the company match maximum.

Link Posted: 6/12/2022 9:53:28 AM EDT
[#22]
It’s sad when people waste opportunities to make themselves more financially secure.

Perhaps they should make it much more transparent that by  cashing out every year, they are giving up hundreds of thousands of dollars at retirement.
Link Posted: 6/12/2022 10:33:22 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Smokey0844:


Can you make it a mandatory deduction on a rising rate until they max out the match? My company does that at a 1% rate each year until they meet the company match maximum.

View Quote


That's the liberal Democrat government "mandate" method of coerced behavior.
Link Posted: 6/13/2022 7:24:51 PM EDT
[#24]
I want to say freedom is scary, but when they spend it and then start voting for democrat handouts it affects me. Now if we were truely a free country and uncle sam didnt hand out. ANYTHING then sure let them have at it
Link Posted: 6/29/2022 3:59:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ShermiesRule] [#25]
I'm not really seeing a problem. No one is forcing IRAs or 401k programs on an earner. You can keep the cash or pay in. However once you decide to join one, you need to follow the program. If it costs them extra to raid, I'm good with it.

If their future shortage messes with my future gains then that's the real problem.
Link Posted: 6/30/2022 3:09:22 PM EDT
[#26]
i was good with it until my 401k plan removed cash equivalent options prior to 2007 crisis.   for 13 years i was stuck in a 401k where i had no safe options.  i made a ton most years in index funds, but because i can't take it to cash when the market looks like it's turning down, i used loans or anything i could to withdraw the max (which wasn't much).  I took advantage of the covid waiver of the tax penalty too.
Link Posted: 6/30/2022 6:05:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By taliv:
i was good with it until my 401k plan removed cash equivalent options prior to 2007 crisis.   for 13 years i was stuck in a 401k where i had no safe options.  i made a ton most years in index funds, but because i can't take it to cash when the market looks like it's turning down, i used loans or anything i could to withdraw the max (which wasn't much).  I took advantage of the covid waiver of the tax penalty too.
View Quote


That sucks. Usually they have a money market fund option so you can keep contributing and get the company match. I know a few of my co-workers who were mostly in bond funds because they wanted to "play it safe" only to find out the hard way this year that bond funds get annihilated in a rising rate environment. Years of interest gone with the wind, not to mention inflation eating up a good chunk of the buying power of what they had saved.
Link Posted: 7/2/2022 6:36:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Cannot imagine paying the penalties in a non-emergency.  Or even the extra taxes...  

Bad enough if you do a loan for say house improvements or to build a shop.  But most won’t be that useful of spending plans.

I am conflicted...
Kind of like seatbelts.  I worked traffic crashes for years.  Could honestly care less if you choose to die....except we all know that when someone gets disabled, or in a persistent vegetative state, that the taxpayers are on the hook, forever.  

Same with people who piss away their retirement opportunities.  They should be left to sink if they can’t swim, but nope, we can’t do that anymore, so we financially prop them up, financially punishing those who chose to be smarter, work harder, or were just more cautious.  It is extremely unfair in a country where excelling is so idolized, that we punish those same people who actually excel...
Link Posted: 7/2/2022 6:41:00 AM EDT
[#29]
You set them up?

all honesty you cannot be mad at people for doing it, be mad at the system and laws around it.  Im sure you do things that may upset folks but are fully allowed to do it.
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