Family and I gradually fell out of the habit of attending Mass every Sunday and we were trying to get back to it. Then COVID completely shut it down for at least a year. Thinking now might be a good time to change parishes.

Our parish had grown to become the largest in the diocese. We were in the midst of fundraising to massively expand the sanctuary. Every Sunday Mass was filled beyond capacity (except summer because a lot of people are out of town on weekends in summer). Then COVID shut down in-person Mass for a year. During that year the bishop moved our much-loved pastor and his associate pastors, scattering them to other churches and towns in the diocese. Our pastor was also the team chaplain for our very popular collegiate football team. He is a man unafraid to have difficult conversations with the bishop (behind closed doors) when he feels it is in the interests of his flock. I suspect he may have pushed too hard somewhere but I don’t know. It was a very unexpected reassignment. The youth education director retired. So did the music director. P

The new pastor is awkward and completely uninspiring, a man too comfortable in his tenure. The associate pastor/parochial vicar is… a twat. The guy rubs me the wrong way and I don’t like him, neither does my wife. (And I like everybody. Something about this guy is off.) We’re going to be stuck with these two for at least 3 to 5 years, if not longer.

In Mass on Sunday it was less than half full. The Bishop reinstated weekly Mass obligations 3 months ago but it seems that, like us, many other families fell out of habit and got accustomed to not attending. they still intend to move forward with the huge new sanctuary but I don’t know where they’ll get the rest of the money.

My faith has taken a big hit over the past 18 months. The church we returned to is not the church we left when Covid hit. My elderly parents live in another diocese and their parish is bursting at the seams with DAILY Mass attendance. Sundays are beyond packed.

So is there reason for us to remain at this parish or are we right to start looking elsewhere? I want to return to my faith and get back to raising my kids in the faith traditions of the Catholic Church, but I have very little confidence in our parish and it’s new leadership.

@benotafraid
@skid2041
@bigstick61

In the last few years I have nothing but dissatisfaction with the catholic church.  The good ones are being punished.

Yes, vote with your feet

"Vote with your feet"; I agree.

A parish....like a family, requires a strong leader.  If you have a pastor that is weak.....move on.

I'd meet with your pastor and discuss these issues. Give him a chance to pastor your family. He might be oblivious or misunderstand what he is seeing. Either way, he deserves the respect of being approached and informed.

If he turns out to not care, yeah, leave. It's your soul.

However, how far is your nearest Latin Mass?

Leaving a parish where you made a home is really tough. It was for me a year ago.

Pray on this decision. Maybe even a novena to Our Lady Undoer of Knots.

Is your current pastor someone who would respond to encouragement? Could you or a group of men start a men’s group - That Man is You is a good one.

A pastor may respond well to a small group of men taking the lead in helping out around the parish, hopefully freeing the priest for more important roles like hearing confessions and providing spiritual direction.

If he is resistant to that kind of help and male leadership, look around, but priests come and go. It’s unfortunate that there are so few which makes any change huge.

I agree that the pastor deserves an opportunity to address the concerns.  I would add that the age of your children should be a big factor.  If you they are still little, you have precious little time to form them in the faith.  If they are adults, you could probably afford to stick it out and try to improve the parish if that what's you wanted to do.

Also, if your faith has taken a hit, start praying the Rosary daily.

Leaving a parish where you made a home is really tough. It was for me a year ago.

Pray on this decision. Maybe even a novena to Our Lady Undoer of Knots.

Is your current pastor someone who would respond to encouragement? Could you or a group of men start a men’s group - That Man is You is a good one.

A pastor may respond well to a small group of men taking the lead in helping out around the parish, hopefully freeing the priest for more important roles like hearing confessions and providing spiritual direction.

If he is resistant to that kind of help and male leadership, look around, but priests come and go. It’s unfortunate that there are so few which makes any change huge.

The primary responsibility for your children's faith formation falls on you and you must take aggressive actions if need be.  I agree with abnk.  You have precious little time if they're still young.

As a family

this and in your great generosity pray for the fallen priests and parish families being lead astray.

I am going to tag @twire.  This sounds just like our parish except he came in guns blazing and very full of himself. It's not like we can just up and go down the road to another Catholic church. There just aren't any close by.
I'm going to add, that you should use this time to deepen your faith. Read more about ordination and understand the difference between an administrator and the parish priest. Read about saintly priests and the miracles God allowed them. Sometimes saints have to be made.
Ask for God's guidance.
God sends us these priests for a reason. Sometimes the reason is for the parish, sometimes the reason is for the priest.
Sometimes they are sent as a heavy cross to test us in fire.
It's important to remember that even a bad priest can say a holy mass. I've not been able to bring myself to leave, because my husband is interned there. (Also something I have to remind my hot tempered sinner self: the priests belong to Christ. He is their judge and their vicar. What we do to them, in thought word or deed, we also do to Christ in the ordination. Avoid falling into that sin out of love for our Lord)
Just remember you are in complete control of your faith and as the leader of your family I second some of the other comments: make, in prayer and prudence, the best choice for your children's formation and your family.

I agree with most here. But, I caveat with, I am not sure approaching the pastor works anymore. I had many run ins with our pastor, over half the parish (mostly families with kids) left because of the pastors divisiveness. I stayed because of relationships there.

My sojourn into the TLM started 4 yrs ago. Mostly because of questions I have had since childhood about Vatican II that most did not explain appropriately to me. We started going 2 a month to TLM, since it was so far for my family to drive. The COVID lock down hit. We had no options. We started going in person. We were the only ones with kids. I was settling in to the NOM again, then everything went back to normal. My family could no longer receive Communion from consecrated hands (deacon, priest refused to give on great tongue).

We went back to the 2.5hr drive each Sunday. Now, my wife and kids won't go back. They love the reverence. My boys really like the TLM. They all do not want to go back.

If you want something for your children... you need to try the TLM. At least 3 masses (make sure it is a High Mass) then see what happens. It was hard to leave our friends. But, I did it for my children's and my wife's souls.

IM me if you want to email. I have some resources I can send you.


I pray for my former pastor daily. But, your family's Faith is in your hands not his. Like Archbishop Sheen said, "it will be the laity that saves the Church."
God Bless.

I wish you the best. Many years ago I grew really weary of our new Pastor (a flaming liberal). I'm still a man of faith but eventually stopped going to mass. If you find yourself moving in that direction, by all means, find a good Parish. I just never could and it's just my wife and me now.

Understand, the grass isn't always greener...

We can never pray enough for our priests, thanksgiving for good and encouragement for bad.  They are under tremendous spiritual assault.

I try to pray a rosary for priests weekly.  

Another idea is to double your penance after confession, offering the second half for the priest who just heard it.

I like the penance idea. H45driver. Thanks!

I wanted to add that all my decisions occurred after many Novenas to St Joseph & Our Lady Undoer of Knots. The 30- Day St Joseph Holy Cloak Novena is one of my favorites.

You will be surprised when your petitions are actually answered. But also remember, you and your family members will come under spiritual attack during Novena. Plus, as a father, Satan is already constantly after you. Because you are the priest, prophet, & king of your family. You hold spiritual authority over your wife & children. Even when they leave the home.

Highlighting that because it's a great habit to develop.  I think I got it from Marshall a couple of a years ago.

I stayed with through college, as a young single adult, and in early marriage, but over the last 5yrs I have really fallen away from mass.  I have had a similar view of the church, both local parish leadership and larger church leadership.

Same here.  For all of the crap accusations against the guy, TM was the one who convinced me of my obligation to pray and fast for priests, bishops, the pope, and the Church.

And while he calls attention to a lot of the nonsense out there these days, he always brings it back to praying for those I mentioned above.

You guys/gals are hardcore

I’ll be honest, I’m in no position to approach the priest about the job he’s doing or the direction of the parish. We really weren’t very involved with our parish pre-COVID. We’d get our kids to faith formation on Wednesdays, attend Sunday Mass inconsistently but often enough for Mass to be a regular part of our lives. We fell into all the pitfalls of fair-weather Catholics of convenience. It became less and less of a priority with each year. As my son begins to ask questions about difficult topics, I’ve found myself referring to scripture. It’s becoming apparent how badly I’ve fumbled my responsibilities for his spiritual direction and upbringing.

It’s just not feasible to approach a priest and say, “hi Father, you don’t know me because I haven’t been to Mass more than 6 times in the past year and I’m not involved in any parish activities, but I think you’re doing things all wrong.”

While you guys are talking Latin Mass vs Novis Ordo, Novenas, daily Rosary with the family, and starting men’s groups at Church, I am a rudderless ship. My marriage, family, job, and mental health are suffering. I see a return to regular Mass as a return to stability. Coming back to this shell of a parish feels like one more blow, another failed attempt to sort things out. But I am to blame for it.

Perhaps I would be better if the Church were better, but the Church has gotten worse because I’ve gotten worse. The parish fell apart because I didn’t act when I could have, when it was easy, when it was right there in front of me but I just assumed it would take care of itself. If I’d been a stronger man, I could’ve lifted up other men and families, and then we could have kept the ship aright together. So perhaps it’s my responsibility to help rebuild. I’m a no-good son of a bitch but maybe that’ll do as long as I’m willing to work instead of coming to Church looking for a spiritual hand out, a welfare check of grace.

How much better might things go if there was just one more person to help with faith formation or office work or making phone calls or setting up before/after Mass? Right now the parish could really use some help. I’m no church lady but I’ve got a pulse.

Thanks for all the input, Arfcom. I Better quit bitching and get to work.

We quit going when we found out our new priest was the one who had moved a  diddler around the diocese before hiding him out in a convent. Cathic church is a shit show and im done with it.Too many good churches out there to be spending time with that nonsense.

Heck of an honest post.  I will pray a Rosary for you and your family within thirty minutes of this post.  You owe five decades to Our Lady tomorrow.  IM inbound.





I know it may sound cliche, but we cannot leave Jesus because of Judas.  Where are you getting absolution currently (assuming you have not given up sinning of course)?

This is fantastic!  Problem identified.  It is never too late to do the right thing!  You don't have to do it all at once; just start with what is required.  Examine your conscience and get into a confessional, then return to communion with the Church. If you need a guide for examination, many of us could recommend one.  Commit to weekly Mass and maybe saying grace before meals. Worry about working up to other stuff later. Set yourself on that path, but give yourself and your family time.  They may need to see you "doing it" for a while before they get onboard without complaining, but it will be worth it.



So much truth here.  The Church is a mess because we are messes. There is a consistent the in the OT of Israel getting the leaders it deserves. When the people are pious, fast, and pray, they get good kings. When they don't, they get bad kings.  I don't know if history repeats, but it sure echoes.

I don't mean to shift the topic. I should probably start another thread (which I will)

God did not want to give us an earthly king. Because God/Christ is The King. But after constant requests He gave them one. Which has caused so many issues.

I theorize, that because of the Subsidiarity. The family structure has a Father, who is Priest, Prophet, & King of the family. Along with a Church. If we ALL 100% followed the Commandments..... would you ever need a over-reaching political body? I will start another thread later on this.

I am starting the process to become Catholic after a lifetime of being raised Baptist, becoming nondenominational for years before going back Baptist. Long story there, and too theological to explain why.

The parish I am going to is not tremendously dynamic, and in this area, there is not a parish that is except for one that I have heard about that still celebrates the Latin Mass. I am guessing that once I am Catholic, I may have to start the search.

It's a good thing God doesn't give up on us as easily as you give up on His Church.

What he said.

So this is the Truth and more than likely being led by the Holy Spirit. You wouldn't deprive your children of food, water or air for their physical bodies would you. As the spiritual leader of your family you must strengthen (in short order) your spiritual life. What you do, your children will do, and the further away from God you get, when these sufferings come up, the harder it will be for you to recover from the hard times. Depriving them of holy mass, family prayer, and formation, out of (name whatever reason you want here) is depriving their spiritual souls of food, air and water. It's death to the eternal soul. It won't fix itself. But with God all things are possible. Note: Holy priest, Holy sheep. You can't shoulder the second half but what you can do is pray and make sure you know your faith enough to keep your family insulated from poor formation. Setting the example for them IS important.

<3  never give up

I've been attending church for ~3 weeks (2-3x a week) now, and can already identify this as great advice.

Glorify God, receive His mercy, and make friends. I was quite fearful about what I might find during that first visit. Fear is a great liar.

Dropping in to post an update and thank you all for your prayers and input. I’ve got the family back on the wagon attending Mass every Sunday. Coincidentally, the parish brought in an outside (religious) organization to conduct a feasibility survey to help direct the future of the parish. I provided thoughtful and honest feedback about mistakes that had been made by the diocese, how we view the present state of things at the parish, our disconnect from the new priests, what our priorities should be, where I’ve failed to adequately contribute, and how I’m willing to help the parish moving forward.

Today at Mass we had a baptism. Twin girls. Father made a few witty remarks and engaged in some banter with the parents and godparents about his own experience having a twin sister. This is the most engaging I’ve ever seen him. It reminded me of how important visual cues are when you’re interacting with an audience.

Prior to Covid, I spent a lot of time in front of groups at work. Then we all got stuck working remotely. It SUCKS sitting at a desk and talking at a computer. The lack of feedback really sucks all of the energy out of the room. Instead of facilitating an activity and fostering relationships, you’re giving a presentation. My team has started having monthly gatherings, just so we remember how to act around people again.

Now translate that to these priests: The pastor comes into a new parish in a new town, unable to establish any real relationships from the get go because we’re celebrating Mass “virtually.” The associate pastor just this month is celebrating his 1 year anniversary as a priest and parochial vicar. Can you imagine starting your priesthood during Covid lockdowns?!?! He strikes me as “off” during Mass but last week it occurred to me:he doesn’t know what to do with his eyes. He’s young and inexperienced and not accustomed yet to being around and in front of a sea of people. I know how to engage with an audience and I know what kind of subconscious visual cues to pick up on from an audience. So, I made sure to plant my family near the front and center to drop those reassuring cues, to engage in singing and prayers and blessings and give him my undivided attention during the homily. I think it’s working. Time will tell. There were more people in Mass today.

So anyway, I figured the first step to figuring this out is to get our butts in the pews on Sunday morning and work it out from there. This strategy seems to be working

Welcome back!

OK... Full on Christian here and I was raised as a Baptist. I am non-denominational for the last 25 years (more than half my life). So this is just a query ( I am not being rude). Why does every Catholic refer to their denomination (or church) as their "Faith"? Isn't all of our faith in the One God and his Son our Savior?

I have not raise my children in the church (regrettably), however I raised them with faith in Christ and His Father.

I did not mean to hijack this gentlemen's post. Perhaps I should start my own.

Lots of prens sorry, but really making sure everyone knows that I am being respectful here.

That's an interesting question.  I don't think of faith as synonymous with church, but I think I see why you'd make that observation.  You are correct that all Christians have their faith in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.  However, faith is not semantically monolithic, inflexible, and uniquely explicit.  General semantics aside, Catholics believe that the deposit of faith consists of Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition.  While Catholics and non-Catholics share most of the beliefs in the Apostle's Creed, we differ greatly in Holy Tradition.  Therefore, the faith is not identical, which is why you see many us speak of the Catholic Faith.

Another way to look at it, from the Baltimore Catechism:

Q. 465. What is Faith?
A. Faith is a Divine virtue by which we firmly believe the truths which God has revealed.

Q. 156. How shall we know the things which we are to believe?
A. We shall know the things which we are to believe from the Catholic Church, through which God speaks to us.

Q. 157. What do we mean by the "Church, through which God speaks to us"?
A. By the "Church, through which God speaks to us," we mean the "teaching Church"; that is, the Pope, Bishops, and priests, whose duty it is to instruct us in the truths and practices of our religion.

Hijack away! There are some super knowledgeable folks here.

(sorry for the delay in responding, Brother, SlimBlundt! mea culpa)

absolutely GREAT responses (yours and theirs) here!

Methinks you're 'back in the saddle!' Keep it up. Throughout this, you've given careful thought, reflection, discernment, and now action. Can't ask for more. Like St. Paul the tentmaker says in the Good Book, we each have to work out our salvation in "fear and trembling." (P.S. Footnote - for me--PLENTY TOUGH, since I've got a 'short-fuse' and I've been working on THAT for 75+ years.)

Me and the world's best spouse (54+ years) had very similar experiences like yours, and after much searching, prayer, and decison, we finally found a Parish and Pastor we were really happy with.

...and guess what?--ya--the Bishop "transferred" the Pastor and Parochial Vicar and we now have a new "Team."

Like my Championship Wrestling Coach aways would tell us: "You'll only get out of it, what ya put into it!" So we dove headfirst into the 'new waters' at the Parish, volunteered for a lot, had coffee/beer weekday chats with other Parishioners, emailed and spoke to the "new guys," and it's working out. Quite well to be exact!

So, you, now being more pro-active, you're going to build your faith even more.

Yep--you've been through some difficult times and faced some tough choices, but you've manned-up and solved most of them.

So glad that you came here and asked for advice, help, and counsel. THAT is one of the reasons we're here--TO HELP AND TO BUILD UP EACH OTHER! in Faith, Mind, Body, and Spirit!

CARRY ON!

Yours in Christ,

BNA

...like the bumper sticker on my work truck says:
"MY BOSS IS A JEWISH CARPENTER"

Another short fuzer here.  I have tried to go after this issue a couple of times, with only temporary success.

Father Ripperger just laid me open in this video, where he talks about the need for detachment and says that if one gets angry frequently, it's from a lack of necessary detachment.  It's an hour-ish and worth the watch.  The first shot on detachment is somewhere in the first 20 minutes.