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Posted: 1/13/2021 5:04:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 5:10:51 PM EST by TheKill]
The Constitution and system that we love and hold dear is the ultimate pinnacle of freedom.  Yet, it can only work, and be preserved, by intelligent people whom value independence.

As one of the Founding Fathers said, "only for a moral people".

But the facts are, we as a human race, and today as a nation, or both immoral, and stupid.  What is the real average IQ in America anymore?


Discuss.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:06:03 PM EST
What is YOUR solution?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:06:28 PM EST
In that case, you picks your tyrant and you takes your chances.  Just don't lie to yourself by pretending it isn't tyranny.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:13:22 PM EST
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:14:59 PM EST
unrig the elections then we can talk about whether the constitution needs to be restructured

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:16:04 PM EST
This is basically falling into the viewpoint of the elites which is that token democracy is fine for the peasants but everything important should be up to them and their appointed technocrats/academics...nah.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:17:58 PM EST
It's an imperfect system but nothing better has come along
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:18:05 PM EST
Well, I'm intelligent and value independence so you can roll that idea up and stick up Pelosi's ass.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:31:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
View Quote




^i'll go with this.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:35:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 5:36:15 PM EST by exDefensorMilitas]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 110:




^i'll go with this.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 110:
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.




^i'll go with this.


Hasn't solved a fucking thing in FL. 435 Reps and 100 Senators aren't the problem. The faceless, nameless bureaucracy is the problem.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:38:17 PM EST
Oligarchy's only work for those in charge. We are an Oligarchy but refuse to speak it out loud.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:39:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 5:39:45 PM EST by MotorMouth]
We need an interregnum period, where I, as your benevolent dictator for a period as yet to be determined by me, have unfettered power to rule over these United States in a fashion that I deem in our best interests.

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:41:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheKill:
The Constitution and system that we love and hold dear is the ultimate pinnacle of freedom.  Yet, it can only work, and be preserved, by intelligent people whom value independence.

As one of the Founding Fathers said, "only for a moral people".

But the facts are, we as a human race, and today as a nation, or both immoral, and stupid.  What is the real average IQ in America anymore?


Discuss.
View Quote


Theocracy is the way to go
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:42:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal:
What is YOUR solution?
View Quote

Exterminate moral self sufficient people who produce and give it to the people who can't. It'll be glorious comrade, we can replace them with robots that look great in videos but breakdown every 8.7 weeks.

Or not
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:42:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
View Quote



That didn't work for California.  It just consolidated party power and orchestrated the Democrat takeover of the entire government.  Politics has to be local, including political donations.  You should be able to contribute to a candidate only if you can vote for them.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:45:12 PM EST
It is sad that such a large percentage of our population no longer desires independence or self sufficiency.  We are not the bold frontiersmen of the past.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:45:15 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal:
What is YOUR solution?
View Quote



Crayons and safe spots
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:46:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 5:47:00 PM EST by RockMech]
I imagine that, before the decade is out, we'll either have a Leftist strongman (not an elected (fake or real) POTUS, but someone who is running the country because he has the guns and dudes to do it) or a Right-oriented (whether that's outright Fascist or what have you) strongman ruling us.  Half the country has lost faith in democracy...and there's no putting that genie back in the bottle.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:47:07 PM EST
You must have failed your history classes in K-12 school.   Our constitution did not set up a self government for this union of states.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:48:09 PM EST
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Originally Posted By aggiesq:
unrig the elections then we can talk about whether the constitution needs to be restructured

View Quote

This is the Answer.  The right person won.  But is going home because of fraud.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:49:53 PM EST
viva la morte
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 7:20:16 PM EST
I am going to move to the Oligarch class
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 7:23:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
View Quote

They are a fantasy.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 7:27:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 7:27:17 PM EST by BlaineBug]
The constitution is the people's protection against the government.  It is not the government's duty to ensure it's respect - it's the people's to hold their governments accountable.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 7:57:10 PM EST
They lost the fear, if the fear is put back in them they will fall in line.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:08:52 PM EST
Maybe the people being pandered to are the a bigger problem than the panderers.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:13:34 PM EST
As soon as some of the States changed the voting requirements (removing the owning of property requirement), it was all downhill from there.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:13:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal:
What is YOUR solution?
View Quote


When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:15:03 PM EST
"It is the business of the very few to be independent; it is a privilege of the strong. And whoever attempts it, even with the best right, but without being OBLIGED to do so, proves that he is probably not only strong, but also daring beyond measure."

-Friedrich Nietzsche
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:16:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
View Quote


They did that in California.  The power then just transfers to the long term staffers.  

We would have to put a wrench on that too, I think.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:16:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
View Quote


The bigger problem is the unelected mass of government workers.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:22:01 PM EST
Right wing authoritarianism is the best way to safeguard a moral, just, and traditional society.

Fascism and nazism are gay, they are not good examples. Franco and Salazar are the best templates.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:24:04 PM EST
Conservative Theological Totalitarian Dictatorship is the only way we can be free of the liberals!!!

Or not
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:30:15 PM EST
The problem is enculturation.  Conservative values and principles of self governance were spread person to person and via institution as people worked and networked in their local community.  As community engagement broke down, as people became isolated, and partiuclarly as the means to broadcast to and neurohack large portions of the population came on line via social media and 24 hour news cycle, the old  culture and it's methods of propagation fell behind.

So, can people be raised and enculturated to understand and value self governance (and a majority of people have no clue what's even involved any longer in a social setting)?  If not, then it is dead, and it's all Herd Management or chaos from here on.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:33:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal:
What is YOUR solution?
View Quote

Campos de Fema and deportation of libturds?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:34:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
View Quote
Yeah. We don't have a republic. We have an oligarchy.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:42:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 8:43:41 PM EST by PatrickHangry]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
View Quote

NO.  How many times are people going to argue for term limits, after ignoring the arguments against them a thousand times over?

To recap the biggest ones:
1. Term limits increase corruption, because legislators in their final term don't need to care about voters anymore.  Instead, they can just spend their whole last term courting their next employer with largesse.  Corrupt politicians already have that option today, but they restrain themselves just enough not to anger their voters, because they're narcissistic enough by temperament to prefer the government title over a corporate one.  If you take that away from them, their legislative positions will just become job interviews for "set for life" positions at mega-corporations afterwards.
2. Term limits ensure that elected officials have less experience than unelected bureaucrats.  This gives the unelected bureaucrats greater control, because they're the ones "guiding" the inexperienced legislators and showing them the ropes in a system they helped make too complicated to learn within the timespan of the term limits.  At that point, Nancy Pelosi wouldn't need to be elected or campaign for votes.  She'd just have a permanent bureaucratic position manipulating the inexperienced legislators who cycle in and out, and she'd still be government royalty.  As an analogy, look at how much power the unelected bureaucrats in the federal government had to undermine an inexperienced President they didn't like.  You might think legislators are different, but most depend on their staff for virtually everything.  You want the legislators to have the real power in that relationship, because they're the only ones even ostensibly accountable to the people.
3. The kind of people who want to become politicians are usually narcissistic.  Honest ones are so rare that you want to keep them when you're lucky enough to get one.  Exactly how many Ron Pauls have you seen in politics in your lifetime?
4. As stated earlier in the thread, they tried it already in California.  The result was Democratic hegemony, as anyone who thinks it through could have already predicted.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:47:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DonS:


The bigger problem is the unelected mass of government workers.
View Quote


Thuh resistance!
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 9:22:37 PM EST
Our elections haven't been fair for a long time. A wealthy New York businessman should not be able to dump millions of dollars into a local prosecutor election in Kenosha Wisconsin to get his party's candidate elected. Once influence like that gets involved, the election is no longer a reflection of the will of the local people voting in that election - their will has been artificially influenced by outside interference.

I don't know what the answer is, but I know that it isnt right.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 2:36:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2021 2:49:39 AM EST by steveday72]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
View Quote


Term limits would be ineffective unless it was paired with a ban on politicians & government workers (bureaucrats, staffers, etc) from coming/going  from/to commercial employment with organizations they will/had oversight or government relationship with.  (ie: If someone may be in a position to have BigTech oversight or licensing, then Google cannot send people into government to do their bidding. Neither could Google hire people straight out of government positions where they had oversight or something like licensing etc.)

They also need to ban politicians, their families, and their business partners from receiving money from corporations (or entities sending donationst/gifts/exorbitant fees on their behalf) related to their government oversight or government work. (Ie: no giving their children a job/contract; no credit card companies giving "donations" to those on the banking oversight committee etc.)

The ban(s) would have a defined limit, but also be shorter if they didn't serve a full term: ie: ban duration equals the lesser of - 5 years, or half the duration of their government position.

Otherwise we just have a revolving door between corporations and government, implanting their own people or bribing officials/politicians to get whatever they want.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 2:45:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cavedog:
As soon as some of the States changed the voting requirements (removing the owning of property requirement), it was all downhill from there.
View Quote


Owning of property is a stupid system to determine who votes.  Citizens who are net tax payers should be the only ones voting.  Anyone on the Dole or otherwise getting more benefits from the government than they are paying in taxes should not be able to vote themselves more money from the public treasury.  That's the issue that got us into this mess in the first place.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 3:27:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2021 3:36:33 AM EST by waterglass]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Blue_Devil_JD:
Conservative Theological Totalitarian Dictatorship is the only way we can be free of the liberals!!!

Or not
View Quote


You know, in a federal republic, the states and counties and municipalities decide such things as gun laws and what not.

I'd like to have that. We don't have that. We used to, before your grand parents were born.

The feds should have no say in how your community governs, unless the community is literally holding slaves or chattel or denying people essential rights.

At all.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 3:36:48 AM EST
No.

Sick of legislating for the dumbest in society.  We need policies that reward intelligence and punish stupidity.  

Let's start with eliminating warning labels and go from there.  Maybe we end up with an IQ test to vote and hold public office.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 3:42:50 AM EST
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Originally Posted By sq40:
viva la morte
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What's old is new.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 3:45:05 AM EST
There are some who say this is inevitable, and part of a cycle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 3:48:01 AM EST
Repeal the 17th amendment
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 3:59:26 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal:
What is YOUR solution?
View Quote


A vote from with someone sucking on the government tit should perhaps not carry as much weight as a PERSON (Not organization) actually contributing. Not perfect just a thought for a starting point.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 3:59:51 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RichinCM:



That didn't work for California.  It just consolidated party power and orchestrated the Democrat takeover of the entire government.  Politics has to be local, including political donations.  You should be able to contribute to a candidate only if you can vote for them.
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Originally Posted By RichinCM:
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.



That didn't work for California.  It just consolidated party power and orchestrated the Democrat takeover of the entire government.  Politics has to be local, including political donations.  You should be able to contribute to a candidate only if you can vote for them.


Definitely. The out of state money flowing in is getting ridiculous.

I am not sure about term limits.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 4:24:36 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bloencustoms:
No.

Sick of legislating for the dumbest in society.  We need policies that reward intelligence and punish stupidity.  

Let's start with eliminating warning labels and go from there.  Maybe we end up with an IQ test to vote and hold public office.
View Quote


I wouldn't be opposed to stricter rules about who could serve in high office. Narrower age limits so people serve at their peak, IQ test, civics test, I understand there's a physical test for psycopathy too.

I bet if we disqualified all the psychopaths we get rid of half the current congress.

I bet we'd do better if we just had a draft in the house. Just put everyone with an IQ over 130 who isn't in prison in a district into a hat, get a class of representatives who then take three month intensive civics training and briefings from the people they're replacing. Have senators appointed by state legislatures.

Make it a crime for any representative to profit from anything while they serve. They get their salary, that's it. All their liquid wealth has to be in US index funds or treasuries while they serve.

A genuine meritocracy would be interesting, but it gets difficult to judge who's most meritorious. Gets very elitist very fast.

Really though, I don't think our political problems are actually political. It's more of a cultural bankruptcy born of artificially rapid growth and change due to fiat money and fossil fuels.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 4:33:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By TheKill:
The Constitution and system that we love and hold dear is the ultimate pinnacle of freedom.  Yet, it can only work, and be preserved, by intelligent people whom value independence.

As one of the Founding Fathers said, "only for a moral people".

But the facts are, we as a human race, and today as a nation, or both immoral, and stupid.  What is the real average IQ in America anymore?


Discuss.
View Quote


Actually they (specifically Adams for that particular quote) said a moral and religious people. With the example of revolutionary France as a bloody example of trying to figure out morality with no God. Quite a few of them had a lot to say on the subject if you read their writings... Adams, Madison, John Jay, and others.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 6:16:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2021 6:52:47 AM EST by glklvr]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ExecutiveMendicant:
Term limits would be a start. The privilege of representing us should be shorter and spread among more people.
View Quote


On the other hand, doesn't that violate voters' right to elect who they want to?

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -John Adams
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