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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:06:46 AM EDT
Searched and didn’t see anything on this.
Rand Paul proposes bill to end no knock warrants. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/06/11/rand-paul-bill-end-no-knock-warrants-314303  Attached File |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:07:47 AM EDT
[#1]
About time!
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:08:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: About time! Damn right. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:08:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Are the libs gonna say that it’s racist to oppose no knock warrants now?
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:08:50 AM EDT
[#4]
Rand Paul is awesome. Usually. Great idea.
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:08:58 AM EDT
[#5]
Any time that you make an Absolute Rule, you will find problems with it.
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:09:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Good way past time for this.
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:09:20 AM EDT
[#7]
Good!
Yeah, I know, some dopers might be able to flush their dope... Whatever. Would rather lose some dope case then have any more innocent homeowners get into gunfights at 3am because cops had enough evidence to get a warrant but apparently not enough to know that the target moved out of that house 6 months ago. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:09:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rand Paul is awesome. Usually. Great idea. I agree. My ideals align with his more often than not. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:09:59 AM EDT
[#9]
Sounds good to me. As usual Senator Paul identifies a cause that both sides should be able to agree on.
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:10:12 AM EDT
[#10]
this is bipartisanship
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:10:21 AM EDT
[#11]
I'd like to read the actual bill.
I wouldn't necessarily ban them altogether, but I have espoused that they be considered as "deadly force" (they meet most definitions of deadly force out there) and be treated and used as such... to be used only to protect from an imminent threat of death or bodily harm. (i.e. hostage situations, active attack in progress, kidnapping, etc.). |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:10:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good! Yeah, I know, some dopers might be able to flush their dope... Whatever. Would rather lose some dope case then have any more innocent homeowners get into gunfights at 3am because cops had enough evidence to get a warrant but apparently not enough to know that the target moved out of that house 6 months ago. Or that their suspect was already in custody. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:10:55 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are the libs gonna say that it’s racist to oppose no knock warrants now? Probably. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:11:05 AM EDT
[#14]
Good good, very good...
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:11:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Add in ouija dogs and civil asset forfeiture and we're good.
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:11:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: About time! FPNI. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:12:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Does this mean that if you refuse to open the door they will still come in anyway?
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:13:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would rather lose some dope case then have any more innocent homeowners get into gunfights at 3am because cops had enough evidence to get a warrant but apparently not enough to know that the target moved out of that house 6 months ago. OR have cops shot because someone heard them crashing in and assumed it was a home invasion and started firing. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:15:05 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does this mean that if you refuse to open the door they will still come in anyway? No. They'll set up a perimeter and starve you out. It means they will identify themselves before they break in which is fair enough. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:16:12 AM EDT
[#20]
now get rid of civil forfeitures.
edit and qualified immunity |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:16:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OR have cops shot because someone heard them crashing in and assumed it was a home invasion and started firing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Would rather lose some dope case then have any more innocent homeowners get into gunfights at 3am because cops had enough evidence to get a warrant but apparently not enough to know that the target moved out of that house 6 months ago. OR have cops shot because someone heard them crashing in and assumed it was a home invasion and started firing. The risk of death or bodily injury to suspects, innocents, AND cops is too high for anything other than life-threatening emergencies. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:20:35 AM EDT
[#22]
A good first step in the right direction.
Body cams should be mandatory. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:24:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Promising.
There is actually a time and place for these unfortunately they were abused and killed and/or maimed innocent people. I think there needs to a level of accountability in their use. Whoever rubber stamps them and the raid strike package element mission commander or whatever stupid title they give themselves to wear all the stars should be held accountable if things go wrong. Old school accountable. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:24:09 AM EDT
[#24]
Good
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:24:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Add in ouija dogs and civil asset forfeiture and we're good. 
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:24:52 AM EDT
[#26]
Dan Bongino will shit a kidney.
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:25:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Searched and didn’t see anything on this. Rand Paul proposes bill to end no knock warrants. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/06/11/rand-paul-bill-end-no-knock-warrants-314303 https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/463094/15124AEE-C3CF-49C1-9E33-CE3AE1217E1D_jpe-1458360.JPG A little too far. End no knock raids for anything other than serious violent felony suspects. Murder, kidnapping, terrorist attack, hostage situation, rape, arson. Anything less, not worth it. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:25:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any time that you make an Absolute Rule, you will find problems with it. foot soldiers.If you arent currently in jail or otherwise in custody, there is no gun control law, period. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:26:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Good deal
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:27:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The risk of death or bodily injury to suspects, innocents, AND cops is too high for anything other than life-threatening emergencies. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:28:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Wonder how many thin blue liners around here are crying inside right now?
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:28:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good! Yeah, I know, some dopers might be able to flush their dope... Whatever. Would rather lose some dope case then have any more innocent homeowners get into gunfights at 3am because cops had enough evidence to get a warrant but apparently not enough to know that the target moved out of that house 6 months ago. The only other alternative would be a system with multiple levels of authentication to 100% verify the target, but I lack faith that the .gov could come up with a law that does that. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:28:56 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Promising. There is actually a time and place for these unfortunately they were abused and killed and/or maimed innocent people. I think there needs to a level of accountability in their use. Whoever rubber stamps them and the raid strike package element mission commander or whatever stupid title they give themselves to wear all the stars should be held accountable if things go wrong. Old school accountable. Subjectively, from what I've seen.... if you let them do it at all, they'll find a way to justify why the warrant is needed "this time" because reasons..... no matter how onerous the bar is set to..... once they find the trigger words/ situations.....no- knocks will rise again. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:29:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Statists gonna be upset
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:30:34 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. The risk isn't worth the reward. The only other alternative would be a system with multiple levels of authentication to 100% verify the target, but I lack faith that the .gov could come up with a law that does that. It's the only way I can see a mistake happening right now, yet there are plenty of examples of those mistakes occurring...... just saying ..... |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:30:49 AM EDT
[#36]
So how many "no knock" raids are actually no knock? Looks to me like quite a few are knock once, announce, and then boot the door all in a second or two.
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:31:50 AM EDT
[#37]
Nothing like giving criminals time to destroy evidence. Why not just do robocalls to criminals?
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:32:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So how many "no knock" raids are actually no knock? Looks to me like quite a few are knock once, announce, and then boot the door all in a second or two. If they had a real no knock, they just burst through the door and then start shouting/ shooting. They look very similar. In reality, 3am raids should be reduced. Hit the house while they are out, snag the person when they come home. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:32:52 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: About time! |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:33:29 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn right. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: About time! Damn right. Good with it. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:33:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Good
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:33:57 AM EDT
[#42]
I assume like here the police would not need a warrant to enter they observe a active crime is taking place?
I.e. person being strangled inside a house and the cops have to wait outside on the warrant? For the rest of course no knock warrants would need to end when there no danger to human life. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:34:02 AM EDT
[#43]
Dogs around the country support this
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:34:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I assume like here the police would not need a warrant to enter they observe a active crime is taking place? I.e. person being strangled inside a house and the cops have to wait outside on the warrant? For the rest of course no knock warrants would need to end when there no danger to human life. Finding evidence of a crime isn't an exigent circumstance (no time pressure to save a life, etc) and require a warrant or an active pursuit or other reason that isn't just suspected presence of evidence. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:34:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd like to read the actual bill. I wouldn't necessarily ban them altogether, but I have espoused that they be considered as "deadly force" (they meet most definitions of deadly force out there) and be treated and used as such... to be used only to protect from an imminent threat of death or bodily harm. (i.e. hostage situations, active attack in progress, kidnapping, etc.). None of those things require warrants typically. You are talking about exigent circumstances |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:34:40 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: About time! FPNI. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:35:10 AM EDT
[#47]
I’ve participated in many no-knock warrants. Thank god none ended poorly.
They need to stop. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:35:11 AM EDT
[#48]
This will save lives.
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:35:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: now get rid of civil forfeitures. edit and qualified immunity And the 'ongoing investigation' meme. |
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Posted: 6/12/2020 10:35:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's knock and announce. If they had a real no knock, they just burst through the door and then start shouting/ shooting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So how many "no knock" raids are actually no knock? Looks to me like quite a few are knock once, announce, and then boot the door all in a second or two. If they had a real no knock, they just burst through the door and then start shouting/ shooting. In my humble opinion the knock and nearly simultaneous entry is functionally a no knock. You still aren't allowing the target to comprehend what is happening to them. If police want people to react rationally they shouldn't force them into a fight or flight response. If they force them into a fight or flight it's not the target's fault that they follow their biology. |
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