This is going to be long, but I will try to shorten it up.  I'm currently in the process of trying to resolve an issue with trees at the back of my property line.  In the event that I'm not able to get them to agree to let me remove trees, I was hoping to find out what, if any, options I have.

Trees at back of property line are nuisance, black locust trees.  Toxic to horses, dogs and children, which I have all three of.    My house was built in 1975, and from record searches, there has never been an official survey recorded with the city or county for my property.  At the time, back yard neighbor was farm land/ranch.  Today it is a business park subdivision.  (commercial, non-residential) and technically there are several owners in the complex.  We want to remove the trees (25-30), of which 3 are technically on "my" side of a really old wire fence.  I've been told that anything on my side of the fence is fair game, as well as any branches hanging over the fence line.

A majority of the trees have around 35-70% of each tree hanging or growing over the fence.  It appears that the fence was constructed with the path of least resistance.  I'm afraid of trimming the trees, in some cases it would cut almost the whole thing down, or causing them to die, since the trunk starts on the backside of the fence.

If the trees actually fall on the property line, who owns the trees?  Shared ownership?  What if I want to erect a fence on the property line, but have to cut down trees to do so?  I have contacted a survey company and they have suggested I get out there with a metal detector and try to find the pins myself (free), I can also pay them to come out and help do a preliminary search ($250-$350) and finally $2500 to do a full and complete survey, set pins, record with county.  I'm hoping not to have to do any of this last part, and hoping I might be able to find the pins for the business properties that went in much later.  I have already submitted a public records request for the preliminary plat of the subdivision behind me, as recommended by the survey company.

I've even contacted city code enforcement, and there is nothing regarding this, they consider it a civil matter.

TL;DR-  Want to cut down trees, which may be on actual property line.  If so, who owns the tree? We want to do it ourselves, or if necessary pay to have it done by licensed/insured/bonded company.  We also are very open to replacing said trees with "horse/dog/kid" friendly trees.  Basically older property in a subdivision with no HOA, almost all lots in neighborhood are 1 acre or more.  We want to clean up our property, put in proper fencing to contain said horse/dog/kids, and better maintain and improve irrigation ditch also within 5ft of fence, etc.

And yes, trust me this has been a source of frustration for me and my wife, had I known about the tree issues, I would have never bought this property.  But, we did buy it and for the unforeseeable future, this is home.

Thoughts?  Legal implications I'm not thinking about?

You have to have the stakes properly (legally) placed before you do anything.  It sounds like your not even sure if your current fence is completely on your property.  Trees on your property are yours to do with as you please.  You can trim the portion of trees on the neighboring property where they overhang your property.  Trees on the property line will require mutual agreement which I would get in writing before doing anything.

BTW was the lot surveyed before closing?  I never heard of closing on property that you don't even know if it's yours or not.

Finding the usgs pins is the best option.  My property was heavily treed when I bought it, it took me a lot of searching to find the markers, but I eventually did.

As far as tree removal, talk to the tenants of the business park, they make payments to someone, possibly a management company, if you're lucky to an owner.  Contact the owner or management company explain you're concern about the trees, and convince them it's in their interest to have them removed also.

It's also possible that when the land was sold to what is now the business park, they might have a survey plat which shows a property line.

Montana has a cadastral website that shows fairly accurate property ownership maps for the entire state.  Apps like onyx hunt gps do a pretty good job of overlaying the data on satellite imagry.

Not accurate enough to go lay out property lines or anything, but it should help get you very close to corners and make it easier to find any survey stakes or pins from previous surveys.

Seems like you have two different issues that have come up. First is what property you actually own. A survey can establish that.

Second is whether you can get rid of the trees. First step there is to talk to the owner(s) of the business park. They may not care. The might even prefer the trees being gone and be excited about you helping to pay for them to be removed. However, in some cities, commercial development (and even residential development) comes with commitments about keeping a certain amount of greenspace and trees. In some of our cities, trees are relocated to be able to keep them on the property. You won't know until you talk to your neighbor.

You look at it on property appraisers site?  You could use arc gis app on your phone and get really close . Lots of old fences were built around, and crooked. Once you find your corners try to get up a string as straight as possible to see how many trees your dealing with. It may be cheaper in the long run to clear the line and put up all new fence. Which you as the property owner have the right to clear whats over the line. I have had to chainsaw hunks out of trees to get a fence straight one time because the land owner wanted to save a tree. I am talking about barbwire.

Edit: That survey price, even the lower we gonna help you figure seems really high.

Iirc our state convention I believe is you can harvest 50% of the line trees.    Then the next year you can harvest 50% of the line trees,  and so on.

Do you have a survey?  Did a survey come with the deed when you bought the property?  What did the title company use to ensure the title was GTG?

If any of these answers resemble the word "No", then:

Get A Survey.

Once that's done, everything else is pretty much irrelevant.  The trees will be on your side of the property line or they won't.  If they are, cut at your leasure and pleasure.  If they aren't, time to start a conversation with your neighbors.

Why is this concept difficult to understand????

Thank you all for your replies.  To try and answer some questions.  I have spoken with the company who I believe manages the property, as I don't believe they own it.  This was 2/7.  The person in Property Management sent out a maintenance/grounds dude to meet my wife to discuss and see exactly which trees we are talking about.  He reported back to the woman I spoke with in PM (Property manager?).  She hadn't gotten back in touch with me to tell me what they thought would happen.

I called and left a message last week and followed up with a call yesterday morning (Monday).  She told me that it wasn't something they could make a decision on, as it would need to go before the owners group/association, which meets annually in February...  She said that they can request another meeting with the owners, but we would need to have some sort of proposal.

After doing some more digging today and property record searches, it appears that there are various owners of each parcel and building in the development (some vacant and managed by this corp).  I attempted to contact the business located directly behind our property to try and speak with the owner but they had left for the day.  Based on the free recommendations I have received from the survey company I called, they suggested I request the preliminary plat and any records for the subdivision and or property directly behind mine, as it was built sometime in the past 15 years and should have pins.  Also, I am going to check in with the county and city again, as there should have to be some record, the plat showing on our records for our subdivision lists lat & longitude and what appears to be pin locations on a drawing.  Possibly not available in the city records, as it might have been in the county when built, as my parents live 2 miles away and got annexed into the city in 2000.

In terms of my property, I am looking into that.  This is our 2nd house, our first was in a developed, cookie-cutter subdivision, so fences already erected, pretty easy to define which was our property, also it was only 1/4 acre.

In the mean time, I will refrain from cutting anything down and see if I can get anywhere with the owners directly behind us, not the management company.

ETA:  In terms of the trees, I've spoken to the city and they do not require any replacement, as they are considered nuisance trees and they would actually prefer they not exist, but can't force owners to cut them down.

Copper nails discreetly placed.

I don’t understand how there was never a survey of the property?   While a full survey isn’t required for a purchase,  a house plat normally is and that involves finding the corners set by a surveyor, at least here.

$2500 seems pretty high to me, I’m a 3rd generation surveyor, although i’ve not been surveying for a while.   Dad would probably charge that much, but he hates civil, he does oilfield, and charges enough to make it worth pulling a crew off clients who keep him extremely busy.   If the deed and docs are a way fucked up I could see $2500, or maybe you have 50 corners.

Regardless you need a survey before building a fence if its never been done.

Survey may be a moot issue if you can get agreement from the industrial park. Keep going in that direction.

If it comes down to a survey then find a better one. The one you called quoted you about 6 times what it should cost.

This.

Buying without at least a boundary check is like buying the classic 'pig in a poke.'

Exactly WHAT did you actually purchase?

So, I got a hold of a metal detector and found one of the pins.    Also, the property has been surveyed (1974) and certainly again in 1998-ish when the business park went in, so my neighbor's pins most definitely should be there, as we share a common border.

So the potentially good/crappy part.  Drawing an imaginary line 188' from my west corner pin to the east corner where my other pin "should be", the vast majority of the trees are smack in the middle of the property line. .  From what I have found online is that we both "own" the trees and if one party wants to cut them down or remove them, they need permission from the other owner to do so.  I heard back from the owner of the property and she is willing to work with me. She is not happy with the property management company (who told me no, btw) and wants to tell them to pound sand due to other issues she has had with them.    I am currently trying to find out what kind of CC&R/HOA exists for the business park.

Hopefully, they really don't have a say in it, because they are not the owner of the parcel.

Update:

Have a meeting with the Subdivision/business park association people on 4/5.  Have also spoken to and had several tree companies & arborist out to look at the trees and give me quotes.  We will begin with having 3 trees cut down (these are without any question, on our property).  Presuming all goes well, and we can cut down the trees, we will have the rest of them taken down shortly after.

Ironically, one of the tree companies who gave us a quote is contracted with the business park and does maintain other trees on their property and knows the landscape guy very well.  The tree company has even told them these were going to be a problem and they should have them removed, for years.  He couldn't understand why they would want to keep them.  All of the companies I had out who also sent their arborist, said they would be more than happy to speak to the negative impact the trees are currently having and will become if nothing is done.

If we do as previously suggested and aggressively trim the trees back (like powerline trimming) the trees will go the exact opposite direction and cause huge headaches for the property owner directly behind us.

To make things even better, I spoke with my neighbor to the west, who is a retired/disabled/widowed old vet in his mid-70's who has gone rounds with the association and gave me permission to cut down any trees I want on his property (save the 2 poplars he planted).  He's got a bunch of the black locust trees on his back fence/ditch line as well and wants them gone, he just can't afford to have them removed.  He and I are going to get along real well, as I'm already starting to help him clean up his property too, as he can't get around to do it anymore.

Fingers crossed for better outcome next Friday!

Good neighbor (both the 70's vet and OP)

not too many of those around anymore.