I see this becoming more mainstream.


I feel like the guy with the beard is what is being spoke about by Paul and Peter in their epistles about the false teachers towards the end times. I feel like things have really accelerated recently when it comes to lgbtq stuff and general sjw propaganda. I watched some tv with the wife and literally every show has something to do with a gay or trans couples and one of the shows had a episode where a medical resident was be made to look like the worlds worst person because she backed out of performing an abortion because she’s a Christian.


This stuff is really starting to infect the church regardless of denomination.

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

This stuff started a longgg time ago

What you're noticing is this seasons crop blooming on a tree whose roots were planted over 50 years ago

Christianity used to be the preeminent foe against the enemies of mankind, the evil ones knew this and have toiled tirelessly to subvert and poison it so as to render it weak and actively complicit in their continuing destruction

The End Times began with Christ's ascension.

There is no doubt that a slimy form of liberal Christianity seems to be gaining some traction. I would also agree that liberalism is creeping into many denominations. However, in the 2000 year history of Christianity there have been, I would argue, larger and greater threats to the Church. Arianism is but one of many examples. Heck, for the RCC, one could argue the Protestant Revolt has been of more damage to Christianity. NO, I AM NOT CONDEMNING PROTESTANTS, but from a doctrinal view, yes it was the largest heresy.

Well, Jesus preached heresy so it can't be all bad.

There are thousands of different versions of "Christianity." Probably all of them have at least something wrong.

What's happening now is definately the most widespread, accepted-by-many-people, obvious perversion of the faith in American history. I don't know that we can say much more than that, really. There are some pretty messed up "Christian" churches in Africa and Europe that have been around for a while, though.

Apathy and cowardice are killing the faith in America. I tried to talk to a couple of friends at my church about standing up to the local school board about the stuff that's happening in the local public school. Transsexual acceptance is all the rage, critical race theory, etc. Evil is being taught and condoned at the school. Their response, "yeah...my kid told me about that stuff. We just laugh about it." Their wives are both public school teachers. They're too scared to speak out against it, and they've decided "it's just the way things are now." I lost a lot of respect for both of them.

The Christian church as a whole has failed this nation. Evil is permeating our culture and government like no other time in recent history, and the church is largely silent on it. They'll preach the parable of the mustard seed again because that's what's on the church calendar, instead of educating their flock about the spiritual dangers confronting them today, because "muh non-profit status." I'm very disappointed.

I think the biggest problem and the reason why churches both RCC/Orthodox  and Protestant/evangelical are going more and more liberal is because the majority of people attending just aren’t saved. Because churches have started teaching what I’ll call a “Bloodless Gospel”. The RCC has put so much emphasis on their tradition and sacraments that people end up trusting those instead of Christ and his blood atonement for our sins. I’m not attacking Catholics. But there is a problem when most people that I come across that are Catholic when asked about salvation will say things like, “I do the sacraments so I hope I am” or “ the priest said I’m good” or “ I pray to Mary every night and ask her to tell Jesus to let me in” or “ I pray the rosary every week so I hope I’m going”. Not a single mention of Christ and what he did on that cross for us which is the very thing our entire faith is founded upon. Protestants on the other hand teach the gospel of ask Jesus in your heart if you don’t want to go to hell. When asked about salvation a lot will say things like. “I asked Jesus in my heart” or “my mom told me when I was a kid I prayed to Jesus to come into my heart” or “I prayed the Sinners prayer”. Again not one mention of the blood atonement of Christ or faith in what Christ did for us. When asked they can’t show you in the Bible where it says to ask Jesus in your heart for remission of sins. Many people that  grow up Protestant get saved and then saved again and some times saved a third time. A lot end up Catholic or a different denomination like many a Catholic have ended up Protestant. Some become atheists.


It’s the blood atonement of Christ that has the power to forgive sins. It’s faith in what he did for us. Now that’s not a lip service faith of saying I agree with that. It’s a true repentant faith of coming humbly to God seeking salvation that only the shed blood of Jesus can provide.

When the Ethiopian eunuch wanted to get baptized he simply  said “ I believe “. When Peter told the gospel to Cornelius and his house the Holy Ghost fell on them because they Believed while Peter spoke. Not because they did a bunch of sacraments or prayed some prayer.


But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


I could keep going on with verses but it’s getting late. But I will say this. When you mess with the trinity and the deity of Christ as Arianism does or you start to lose emphasis on the blood atonement of Christ. The two things that the entire faith is founded on, everything begins to fall apart. Like we are seeing now.

The Cross is the Foundation of Christianity, not just a symbol.

When I see the Blood, I will pass over you. EX 12:13

The Blood Jesus shed on the Cross is the only Sacrifice that God will accept for sin.
The Church has left the cross and put there faith in all sorts of man made efforts that won't save or get them out of the sin they are in.

1 Cor: 1: 17-18
17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Pet 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Please cite examples of man-made efforts that don't lead back to the cross. Moreover, since Faith in Christ as the Savior is at the heart of Salvation for Catholics, how do you reconcile that with your statement?

His post illustrates a pretty big rift in the church as a whole. Sometimes a partial understanding can be as bad as, or even worse than, no understanding at all. And that partial understanding can be due to not attending regularly enough to get the full message from a church that's teaching it, or from faithfully attending a church that doesn't teach it at all.

I grew up in free methodist church(es). We didn't attend every Sunday, and the sermons were not centered around the Law and the Gospel. I went from there to a nondenominational evangelical church that had a great vibe and an incredible pastor who taught great lessons right out of the bible, but it was all about "the show" and the feel-good emotions their services could elicit.  They spent more money on their light show every Sunday than the pastor's wages were at any previous church I attended. I joined the LCMS church as an adult in my 30s. During the membership classes I learned just how much I DIDN'T know about God's word, and my salvation. It was my first actual "religious instruction", and it opened my eyes.

I hadn't understood the sacraments of Baptism or Holy Communion, despite almost 30 years of better-than-average church attendance. There are a lot of people who attend well-meaning churches for decades that don't understand them for the same reasons. Then they make what I consider to be huge spiritual mistakes by calling things like Baptism and Communion (both of which were instituted by God, who commands us to do both of them in his word) "man-made efforts."

If anyone thinks I'm giving credit for my salvation in the practice of either of those things, they have a very poor understanding of my beliefs.

I was attending a church after I got saved and we had a small men's group that met once a week.
When a person get's saved, they still have sin's and other habits that are not pleasing to God.
We were told to write them down on paper, and then we threw the paper in a burn barrel, and when the paper burned up so would whatever we wrote on it.

Did not work.
Only when I put my Faith in Jesus Christ and what He did on the Cross did those problems disappear.

That certainly is an interesting experience, but that sort of exercise is of no comparison to the nature of the Sacraments.

It's happening across the board.  Fortunately I haven't seen it creep into doctrine.

Further back than 50yrs. Beginning of mankind is more accurate. I believe this cycle started with the French Revolution. Once a society hits a certain level of "comfort zone" from the result of the previous generations hard work, discipline, and taboos God is pushed out and hedonism/narcissism takes over until the people are wallowing in their own filth/confusion and made ripe for conquer. Of course there are diabolically influenced institutions at the top who accelerate and exploit this human weakness. Making it worldwide and everlasting has always been the goal. No way to fight, nowhere to run, nobody coming in to save you. Submit to the new world "religion" of woke secular humanism or join the line at the guillotine.

The “Cult of Liberalism” as Walter Martin called it. Began over 120 years ago, infected most major denominations and theological seminaries. This is just the culmination.

Of course it was predicted, as most things we are currently witnessing are right there in front of us in Scripture.

The lgbtq... trans stuff, the feminization of society, the running in fear over a cold/flu virus, etc. are just signs of the death of our culture and Republic, they’ve gone off the rails into total fantasy land.

2Peter 3:15-18
2Thess 2:9-12

The Bible has already been heavily edited in mainstream China. The Bible as it is written will soon be outlawed as contraband and hate speech in the western world if we continue on the path we are on. Only leftist committee approved redacted versions will be allowed to be sold or printed online.

I should have specified "the doctrine of my faith"

Genesis 0:1

In the beginning, Man created God in his own image, attributing all the faults, frailties and vanity of the soul of man to the character of God.

With this perversion of truth in mind, man feels free to rationalize anything.

Cite Christian tenets that demonstrate this.

I think you didn't understand that the premis is from the view of the non believer.

OP, I sent this same scripture to my family this week.  I haven't been to our church in a few years.  It is because I didn't leave the Methodist Church, it left me.

May God protect us as the perilous times are now upon us all.

The ignorance contained in posts like this is less shocking than the poster's willingness to openly display it.

Tony Campolo has been around a long time . . . . so this kind of garbage has been around for at least as long as he has.  

And for the Catholics here, the current Pope is not a shining example of maintaining orthodoxy.

I haven't seen any Catholics here bending over backwards to say otherwise.

Catholics don't seem to be saying much about him either way. The Vatican continues to praise him, though.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Whether-Jorge-Bergoglio-is-a-valid-pope/135-2424734/

Forgot about that. I even posted in there.

Could this be why some Christians avoid speaking out so vehemently against the corruption of Christianity? From St. Augustine's City of God:

"But what is blameworthy is, that they who themselves revolt from the conduct of the wicked, and live in quite another fashion, yet spare those faults in other men which they ought to reprehend and wean them from; and spare them because they fear to give offence, lest they should injure their interests in those things which good men may innocently and legitimately use,—though they use them more greedily than becomes persons who are strangers in this world, and profess the hope of a heavenly country…."

And here, why our Churches, including the USCCB of the RCC, refuse to face the wrath of society and condemn its ills?:

"...not only do these weaker brethren gladly obtain and grudgingly lose many earthly and temporal things on account of which they dare not offend men whose polluted and wicked life greatly displeases them; but those also who live at a higher level, who are not entangled in the meshes of married life, but use meagre food and raiment, do often take thought of their own safety and good name, and abstain from finding fault with the wicked, because they fear their wiles and violence. And although they do not fear them to such an extent as to be drawn to the commission of like iniquities, nay, not by any threats or violence soever; yet those very deeds which they refuse to share in the commission of, they often decline to find fault with, when possibly they might by finding fault prevent their commission. They abstain from interference, because they fear that, if it fail of good effect, their own safety or reputation may be damaged or destroyed; not because they see that their preservation and good name are needful, that they may be able to influence those who need their instruction, but rather because they weakly relish the flattery and respect of men, and fear the judgments of the people, and the pain or death of the body; that is to say, their non-intervention is the result of selfishness, and not of love."

Theological liberalism is not christianity. Not the same religion. Not even the same species, really. Never has been.

Machen wrote an excellent book on this, which you can download for free here: https://www.monergism.com/christianity-and-liberalism-ebook

Also there is an excellent free series of video/audio classes on theological progressives/liberals that addresses where the movement came from fairly and makes them easy to identify when you see them here: https://subsplash.com/reformtheosem/learn-about-rts/ms/+3a1a9fc

Within the context of Western, geo-political-influenced religious ideologies and this discussion, they are the same.

Different god, different core beliefs, different authorities for life and practice, different worldviews and different politics because of that. I didn't read the whole thread so I won't comment there, but in all the other categories, they are not the same thing at all, and are mutually contradictory in critical and core places.

People can also call squares and bacon strips the same thing, but they aren't. It's also insulting to the believers in both systems to equate them, it'd be like saying mormons and believers in islam believed in the same system because both believed in a prophet and were in dry climates and have pologamy in their history.

I also don't know why anyone would *want* to think or say the two are the same thing.

It's not that anyone "wants" to say they are the same thing, it's that within the context of this conversation and this thread, our discussion of liberal practices creeping into "traditional" Christianity is not dealing with a different doctrine but rather the perversion of an existing one.

I was about to post Machen.  And he saw that over 100 years ago.  This isnt new.

What GOD gave us should never be changed by human "trends". Progressives are demanding God bow to them and this world. It's just the opposite. We should be prostrating ourselves before Our God.
We are experiencing biblical chastisements as a result.
As spiritual leaders of your families, do not give into this. It is demonic.
Don't fear persecution. Seek modesty, wisdom, persevere, courage, piety the TRUTH and don't be fooled by our own selfishness or what other people may think.
Do not tie yourself to anything of this world. PRAY PRAY PRAY.

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matthew 7:13-14 (NASB1995)

Another scripture to note on this subject:

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,  and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (NASB1995)