I want to get something small just for fun. I'm trying to decide what route to go. Either get a private license and rent, sport license + experimental or ultralight.

Possibly relevant details:

• Wife def won't get in a small plane. She probably wouldn't let the kid fly with me but the option would be cool. Don't have many friends nearby so passengers would be rare.


• I have some hours in a Piper from maybe 20 years ago. I read they don't expire, but it's been long enough that I'd probably just start over.


• Even though I live in farm country with plenty of space I'm still within the 10nm inner ring of the presidential TFR which usually happens on weekends.


• There's a small airfield nearby that has a school and rentals. They're inside the 30nm TFR so weekends would probably be off limits.

I like the idea of the ultralight being small enough (folding wings) to store in my garage. I can get it out whenever I want, trailer it nearby and bring it home. I live on the side of a big hill so no takeoff/landing at home. I would have to store it someplace or trailer it. It looks like I can get a new one for 10-15k. Downsides are limited speed, range and no passenger.

Stepping up to LSA and a 2-seat experimental means more speed, range and room for a passenger. It looks like the training cost would be close to 8-10k on top of the aircraft cost. Looking at the "big ultralight" style experimentals that would be around 15-20k. I didn't really set a budget on this but $30k would be difficult to justify to my wife for another expensive hobby.

If I went private pilot I would probably be spending the same on training as if I bought the ultralight and be limited to renting for a while. If I did buy a used one in the future I'd be looking at more in maintenance and storage fees. I'd have way more flexibility with aircraft choices and passengers, but more limited since I'd be stuck renting what's available and when. Looking at rental pricing, 2hrs every other weekend would be upwards of 8k in a year.

Buy a Champ and use it to get at least a sport license.  You'll save a pile on lessons, have an inexpensive, certified aircraft, learn how to use the rudder, and fly all you want for cheap.

No matter what you choose to buy/rent/fly, get the private. The additional knowledge and experience will stand you in good stead no matter what that is, from ultralight to that Champ that got mentioned. Other than the additional 20 hours of flight training the ass pain is still the same as for the sport pilot, i.e. you have to pass a practical, oral and written for either of them. It's worth having the additional 20 hours under your belt, and the flying is the fun part! If you decide you want to be a full time sport or ultralight pilot after that no biggie, and no medical either.

Agreed.

OP..It good that you're approaching it this way.

NEVER fly in an ultralight.
Get your private.
I have somewhere north of 3000 hours with an instrument ticket and although I don't fly anymore IF IF IF I were to fly again I would be happy with the utility a LSA type aircraft presents. It really depends on YOUR mission profile. Your wife won't fly? Wait until your kid says "Come on Mom! Its' great!".

The point is that getting your PPL solves all your immediate issues as far as being licensed goes.

I started with a beat up C150 and got my ticket in 43 hours in just over a month. It seemed like I flew almost every day and sometime twice in the same day.  Sold the C150 immediately thereafter so it cost me the lowest possible amount to learn how to fly. No rental cost. About two months tie down fee. Minimum instructor time. CHEAP!!! BORROW the money to buy your first plane. Find a MENTOR close to where you fly from. Sell the plane when you get your ticket.

Now you can do what ever you want going forward. I chose a C182 then a C210 and finally a B36TC which we kept for almost 20 years.

I've seen some really neat ultralites. One of the coolest was a scale cub knockoff. Would love to live somewhere where I needed something like that to go shopping.

What can you really do with an ultra lite within the law and outside the law?

Radios? Avionics? Extra fuel? Speed/hp?

I didn't think about buying a plane before starting to avoid rental costs. I'm going to stop by the school nearby and see what they say about bringing my own plane. I looked at the champs someone mentioned but they were all 70+ years old and I didn't know what I was getting into with something that age. They're all within my budget.

They've just about all been restored more recently, and like all certified airplanes, they get inspected every year.  They wouldn't be flying for 75 years if they weren't good airplanes.

Bull.  Been a pilot for decades and the ultralight is my favorite for just goofing around on a nice day.

Been a while since I read through the part 103 regs, but as I recall, 5 gallons is the maximum fuel allowed on an ultralight.  Max level speed is around 50 to 60 knots (I don't recall the exact number).  I don't recall anything saying you couldn't load it down with avionics, but there is a max empty weight that people tend to have some problems staying under, so the weight of an electrical system will likely be an issue in meeting the empty weight requirement.  Unless my memory is off, ultralights are restricted to daytime VFR flight only.

Having a private and Instrument is the way to go.  Then fly what you want but if you ever get into an issue you have the skills to get out of it, or at least ask for help getting out of it.

The real deciding factor in which ticket to seek is whether you are medically qualified for a 3rd class.
If not, Sport Pilot or ultralight is your only option.
If able to get a 3rd class, go Private pilot, then fly everything you can fit in.
Don't listen to naysayers about ultralights... they're an absolute hoot to fly.

Everyone with an instrument rating insists that everyone should have an instrument rating.  If you like to fly in shitty weather, or like spending a lot of your flying time practicing approaches, by all means, get one and enjoy it.  "Getting into an issue" is REALLY easy to avoid if you're not stupid.

Piling on top of this: if you have an instrument rating you might also find yourself willing to push non-IFR capable aircraft further into situations that might not be the best choice.

Also, there is nothing that says that you can't practice flying out of IMC without an instrument rating, just in case you ARE stupid.  In fact, it's required training.  Do it until you know you can do it.

Waaay back when I was just an airport lineman and student pilot, I had the opportunity to see a perfect example of this.

Guy decided he wanted to learn to fly.  He had enough disposable income, so he decided to buy a Lance and use it to learn to fly.  It had all the bells and whistles of that time, including the newfangled LORAN linked to the autopilot.  His instructor was a Citation pilot that instructed on the side.

When he was almost ready for the oral and flight test, an annual inspection found a damaged tube on an engine mount and put his plane down for a while.  He didn't want to wait until his plane was fixed to finish his training, so he looked for a rental that was at least similar to his plane.  I worked at the airport in the next county, and our Cherokee 140 was apparently 'close enough'.  He and his instructor finished up the prep work in the Cherokee, and the day before he had an appointment with the examiner, he came over and took the Cherokee to his home airport, reserving it for the next day and saving himself the drive over to our airport to get the plane early in the morning, as he had a cross country flight to get to the examiner.

The next morning, I got to the airport to open the office up, and mentally noted that it was going to be a really slow morning, since the fog was so thick that I couldn't see the runway lights.  I went through my morning chore list, and at some point, thought about how that student pilot was just throwing money away that day, since he wasn't going to make his appointment and was still having to pay for the plane he rented.  A while after I settled down in the most comfortable seat in the lobby, I heard somebody on UNICOM asking for somebody by name (didn't give their registration number or a registration number or airport of who they were calling).  The person they were calling by name answered and asked where they were, and they replied that they were flying (our Cherokee).

His instructor had met with him the day before, gone over everything with him and signed off the cross country flight for the next day, then went home expecting to sleep late.  The student showed up at his home airport before their lineman showed up to unlock the office, did his preflight on the Cherokee, and decided that he could just take off and get above the fog before making his cross country to meet the examiner.  Problem was that you had to get above the clouds to find clear air, that morning, and it covered a good sized chunk of the state.  If he had been in his plane, he could have just turned the autopilot on and let the LORAN keep him on course, with no more worries than the examiner asking him to explain how he got there when his home airport and the surrounding counties had been solid IFR all morning (though he probably never thought of that).  Instead, he was in a Cherokee 140 with dual NAV/COMs, a transponder, the basic gyro panel, and no autopilot.  He was afraid to climb any higher than he was, because he could still make out a circle of ground underneath him, and flying higher would mean giving up that visual reference.  He was lost.

The lineman at his home airport helped him get a controller on the radio, and after they understood his circumstances, they used radar (and his transponder) to direct him to the airport next to the FSDO (which fortunately had much better visibility).  The feds were waiting for him, when he landed.  After the feds talked to him, they had a talk with his instructor.  It could have ended up a lot worse, for both of them.

I'm glad it didn't have an unhappy ending.  I'll bet he didn't do it again.

If my memory isn't off, he waited until his plane was fixed, did some more training, then made another appointment with the examiner and passed.  Hopefully he learned the lesson - I don't remember hearing anything else about him, after that.

I don't see any reason I couldn't pass the medical. I just had a physical and bloodwork done and my Dr says everything is "boringly normal". Just got my Rx updated for glasses/contacts a month ago. Not sure what else they would be testing for.

The plan keeps evolving but right now it's: Get the medical done first just to make sure I can move ahead. After that I was going to talk to the school nearby about buying a used Cessna 150/152 or a Champ and using that rather than renting. Also need to find what the going rate is for storing it.

I'm fortunate that I can pretty much do what I want as far as work goes so I can probably go for a few hours a day 5-6 days a week to get it done pretty quick. My business partners son is a CFI and flies emergency medical helos so I'll talk to him too. I don't know what I'm looking at in used planes so it would be good to have someone that knows more than I do to help find one.

One thing I noticed is some planes are VFR only which I assume is limited by the instruments. Can this be upgraded later to add IFR?

Wife is super pissed. She thinks I'm going to crash and die.

The VFR birds are that way because of instruments and required inspections.
They can be made IFR- capable- all it takes is money.  

It may be worthwhile to do a consult with an AME first before actually doing your 3rd class medical, just to make sure there are no issues. If you take a 3rd class and fail, you can no longer do light sport, but if you have never taken a third class, all you need to do light sport is a drivers license.

Making sure that you are not on a medication that is on the FAA naughty list, or have a previous diagnosis such ad ADD that would put you into special issuance hell before you file the paperwork for a 3rd class could be a good idea if Light Sport is a viable option for you.

I had a Carlson SS, about 85% scale signle-seater. I bought it because I refuse to deal with 2-stroke engines and it had an HKS. Also, unlike other Cub-like ultralights like Fishers, Carlsons were built using moly tube fuselage and aluminum spars. It basically was a real airplane, only small. One time I flew it from New York to Texas and it took me 5 days. The cruise speed was 62 knots :-)

As a fairly new pilot (400 hours, private with IR) my experience:

1.) As others have said, get private pilot if at all possible. Training is a pain and requires momentum. Best to get it done all the way while you are at it.   A few more hours are not that big of a deal at the time and will make you a better pilot as well as open you up to better aircraft and more options for cross country and practical uses.  

2.) Ultralights:  I am not an ultralight pilot but think they look awesome and fun.  The impressions I got were if you live in a naturally windy area - avoid.   In south Texas (very windy) I don't see any flying around.

3.) The TFR issue you have is tough.  I think many of us understand the desire to be efficient with airplane and hanger cost.  I have always thought the kitfox planes looks nice and I believe have foldable wings and 'real' airplane performance.  

4.) Honestly, if your wife will never fly with you (hence little need for cross country flying) and all flying will likely be for fun, locally, 1-2 hours at a time, renting is NOT a bad option from the cost perspective.  As cessna 182 owner, I am regularly reminded that owning a plane is very expensive when all the cost are totaled.


Good Luck.

Look at just aircraft offerings.

Wings fold to allow it to fit in a garage or car hauler.   It combines your ultralight and light sport pluses.

There is a route where you can get s light sport license and then apply those hours towards a private but I don’t remember the details.

Just rent and get your private. Having to learn plane ownership at the same time as learning to fly most likely isn't  the best idea.
Also your going to have some rough landings in the beginning, so  why beat up your plane if you purchase one.
Then after you get your license, join a flying club or get into a partnership. This will cut your flying cost considerably.

Different point of view. Go for a light sport license, buy a light sport aircraft and fly the crap out of it. It's much cheaper, both purchase and maintenance, less requirements for the license, and all of the hours / experience count toward a PPL if you still want one .