PaypPal closed my account for taking payments for ammo, no surprise there. They held my funds for 6 months. After the 6 moths were up I went into my account to transfer the balance to my  bank account. PayPal debited my balance from my account as a violation fee. WTF? I opened a case with the BB. Below is there response. Anything else I can do to get my money back?

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I am writing on behalf of PayPal in response to your recent complaint. You complain that PayPal debited your PayPal account balance for its liquidated damages pursuant to the User Agreement; and you request access to those funds.

Response

On October 29, 2018, you created a PayPal account ("Account") at which time you agreed to PayPal's user agreement ("User Agreement") and Acceptable Use Policy ("AUP").

In order to prevent fraud and help ensure the safety of the PayPal system and compliance with the User Agreement and AUP, PayPal routinely reviews account activity. On February 20, 2020, we carefully considered a number of factors that, when viewed together, indicated there was a high level of risk associated with your Account. Specifically, we found that you were accepting payments for ammunition, high-capacity magazines and firearms accessories sold on www.gunbroker.com. Review of your Account reveals at least 17 firearm-related transactions. This selling activity violates the AUP, which provides that "You may not use the PayPal service for activities that: ...2. relate to transactions involving... (j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories."

As a result, we permanently limited your Account as permitted under the Restricted Activities & Holds section of the User Agreement. We notified you of this action through email the same day.

Pursuant to the Restricted Activities & Holds section of the User Agreement, "If you are a seller and you violate the Acceptable Use Policy, then… you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal's damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal's actual damages… PayPal may deduct such damages directly from any existing balance in any PayPal account you control." Accordingly, and because you accepted payments into your Account for ammunition, high-capacity magazines and firearms accessories in violation of the AUP, on August 10, 2020, PayPal debited $438.26 from your Account balance as recovery for its liquidated damages caused by the aforementioned AUP violations. You were notified of this via an entry in your PayPal transaction history stating, "PayPal's damages caused by Acceptable use Policy Violation(s)."

Explanation of Closure

We believe that PayPal acted in good faith and in accordance with the User Agreement when denying you access to our services and debiting your Account balance as reasonable measures to recover damages in accordance with our AUP. Accordingly, we are declining your request for access to the funds.

Please feel free to contact PayPal's Office of Executive Escalations at [email protected] if you have any questions or concerns or if we can be of further assistance.

Respectfully,

Sonya

Executive Escalations

PayPal, Inc.

Cc: Better Business Bureau

Wow, fuck those people.

They stole your money. They didn’t take have any damages. It’s all legal words to make you go away and to think they can legally steal your money.

I finally recovered nearly $1500 from them after 7 months of aggravation.  

I didn't even violate their TOS.  

They can get fucked.

People just never learn.

What damages but yes you should read the fine print.  How could they see 17 transactions were gun related, why did they wait for 17 to do something?  Never going to be worth the fight, thats what they count on.  Wasn't an alternative to paypal started once what happen to it?

Fuckin’ commies gonna fuckin’ commie.  What the hell do they care what two consenting adults do WITH legally owned property?  

Apparently they want to control your life.   Sue them!

But gunbroker has paypal listed as a form of payment!

I'm done with PP finally. Held my business account up for some time now but they have done me wrong as well op.

I don't understand what damages that you have done them? I guess some how you broke paypal ??.

If you are going to use PayPal for anything, but especially gun stuff, sweep your balance to your bank account the day it becomes avaiable. They can't take whats not in your account.

can you sue them in small claim court?

They locked my account recently. I was always careful to immediately pull funds out so I didn't lose any cash.

https://www.firearmstalk.com/threads/paypal-strikes-again.135198/

Oh and it's right in PayPal's terms of service that you agree to when you use their service that if you use PayPal for prohibited transactions, they can 1) lock your account for 180 days, and 2) fine you $2,500.00 per violation.  This policy has been in place for over 10 years.

I know of sellers who had their accounts locked, who then reached out to buyers and explained the situation after closing the linked bank account or cancelling the funding credit card.  The buyers and sellers agreed that the buyer would dispute the charge (item not as advertised, never received, whatever), the seller would not dispute it, and after PayPal refunded the buyer, the buyer would send the seller a check or USPS MO instead.  I think one seller managed to recover a few thousand that way.

I closed my main paypal account a couple years ago after they fucked me.  I always removed money from the account.
But they found a way anyhow.  

Dont miss them.  Fuck paypal

PayPal has been doing this for years. When I was taking "discreet paypal" for things I had heard of this. I also knew that they may be able to do a reverse transfer out of my bank account if they deemed funds I had transferred to my account were done so against their TOS. I setup a new account at my bank that was ONLY an intermediary account. I would transfer funds from PayPal as soon as I received them then immediately transfer from that account to my regular account as an added isolation measure. It worked for about $9,000 worth of 22 ammo after Sandy Hook until some douche nozzle bought ammo then sent payment with, "For gun broker item #xxxxxxxxx" in the notes on the payment. Fucking dumbass got negative feedback and I got my PayPal permalocked. I only lost a couple hundred dollars.

The more lasting thing is that they permalocked my wife's account bc we share a residence. She appealed, they didn't care. She has never let me live that down. She wants to conduct normal, not firearms related business and cannot use paypal to do it.

Also be wary of other money sending apps etc bc PayPal has bought most of them up.

Is there a similar service that is 2A friendly ?

It gets more like Hong Kong here every day.

Bitcoin works without legal issues.

I've taken a bunch of CashApp payments without issue.

Square lets you take CC payments pretty easily.

although I'm in the minority I never fell for the scam "PAY-PAL", ever

if I buy something it's on a real credit card, not a debit card that is tied into a bank account

yeah, GUN-PAL, a whole bunch of morons fell for that scam hook-line and sinker,  because it has the word gun in the name and touted itself as pro 2nd. until one day, everybody's money they had in there just vanish......never to be seen, and the guy who ran that scam got away scot free laughing all the way.

IF you had no $ in your acct. , how did they "find a way" ?

Just looked into square. N/G. #10 in the TOS

use the Services for the sale of firearms, firearm parts, ammunition, weapons or other devices designed to cause physical harm;

@mattsomer1981

How did PayPal associate your transactions to Gunbroker?

Eventually, someone won't follow your discreet instructions. They'll put an auction number, an ammo type or state Gunbroker in a payment.

I had three or four people screw up with one or more of those issues. A few weeks later they killed my PayPal and Venmo accounts.

I can't complain too much. I moved $20k+ before I got caught. I knew I was breaking their rules and I didn't lose any money because I always transferred out of PayPal as soon as any money arrived.

Pretty much this!

You can't fix stupid. As much as you want to believe stupid people don't buy guns/ammo they do. Eventually one of the stupid people will buy your item and do just as he said... put gunbroker, put an auction number, or straight up state, "For ammo" and that's all they need to stick it to you.

I absolutely refuse to do business with PayPal.

Fuck them, leftist cunts.

Yeah, have had it happen once or twice.

But, I was just curious of the OP was being less than discreet.

If you regularly do business through PayPal then they may not catch the occasional slip up by a buyer. But PayPal reviews accounts that have seen significant changes in activity for fraud etc. So if you regularly do $500 of business in a month and you jump to $3,000 a month they will actually review all your transactions to see what the cause of the spike is. If there is anything to indicate it's in violation of their TOS you're screwed bc then they're going to scrutinize every single transaction.

When the dumbass gave them the clue they needed to catch me (gunbroker auction number) they actually listed every current and ended auction where I had "discreet PayPal" listed as an accepted payment. The amount of time they put into sticking it to people is shameful.

Some one put comments on the payment. "GB Auction # 854888101"

This here.   It is what I do on any transaction I receive funds on.

Be careful with Square. I was considering setting up an account with them for my firearms training business, so I asked about it and got a wishy-washy answer that they might decide that it violates their "feelings". So I scrapped that idea and strictly work on cash, MO or checks for my business still.

If they shut me down I'll find a new CC processor.  For the most part, I send people a link, they pay the designated amount, I send what they ordered.  Square gets no data on what it's for.

Lol, no they didn't

They got me recently as well- luckily I had just drained my account.  I hadn’t even violated their terms- they just said they were enforcing “federal regulations” for sellers.  Asked for my “suppliers” and transaction history.  I had no descriptions except for one non 2A eBay transaction.  I told them I had no “suppliers” just a guy using eBay and their service and that they can pound sand. I got lucky.

I use PayPal only to pay for stuff. I don't collect any money through them. They can cut me off with no loss to me.

Looks like Chris Moneymaker (famous poker player) is going after Paypal. If you had your account locked and money taken from you, you may want to consider reaching out his lawyer. This is hot off the press.

https://www.poker.org/chris-moneymaker-to-sue-paypal-for-12000-in-seized-funds/

Anytime I have a pp transaction, I will immediately transfers funds with instant transfer.

Some courts don't like these TOS.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2008/09/washington-court-deals-a-blow-to-unconscionable-eulas/