use DACA deal as your example

there will be no gun control signed by PDJT

for those flailing themselves off the Trump train, you're a pathetic lot

here's your chance to out yourselves as fools once again

MAGA or nothing

There's a few politicians that I really like, there are zero that I trust.

I like the president but I'm not on his train, I ride beside it watching it chug along and hoping it doesn't derail.

And whatnot

Thought I saw where he was going to support banning the bumpstock. A minor concession, but a concession nonetheless.

Time will tell what DJT is really doing, but I am guessing he is using word-jitsu to throw the "blame" (not that its his fault) that no gun control passes off him.

Good way to put it.  As much as I support DJT, this is the only way to go for any leader.  Trust but verify.  It's dangerous to put all of your faith into any human.

A concession?  Yes.  But I must confess, I for one never imagined that the BATF would approve the use of bump stocks!  I suspect there are many on this forum that thought the same thing.  Well, raise your hand and be counted!

You got it.

Hard to keep up with all the crap on the news, but I thought the initial statement directed Sessions and the DOJ to look into them, not ban them.  The MSM and gun control immediately declared a victory and proclaimed that Trump wants a ban.

I'm with this guy

If he signed it but got the wall (funded and built)  in trade, would you be upset?

I would say illegal immigration is far, far a greater threat to our civilization and country than some firearms toy attachment.

I would rather him stand up solidly for our 2A rights and not play silly political games with them.

Trying to appear to "work" with demoncrats is like pissing in the wind and will not accomplish anything worthwhile.

Whatever you guys have to tell yourselves.

I think he's sold us all out.

I sure hope so.

You can do that, and to a point I agree, but when your playing against a team that cheats and lies, if you don't beat them at their own game, you WILL lose. All be it with your pride in hand.

I tend to kind of think this is where we are headed.  Don't know for sure, and not sure I even agree with the strategy applied to this issue.  With that said, this is exactly how DACA started, with Trump offering to amnesty 1.8 million illegal aliens, and ending with Trump amnestying no one while legitimately saying that Dems hate immigrants and flogging them like a stubborn mule over the government shutdown.  It was so bad that the dems had to get Mueller and the media to go back to Russia lies just to get the heat turned down a little.

So, I am on the wait and see boat.  DJT has often said things that were distressing while still delivering.  I'll wait and see if he delivers before I make any judgment calls.

Still on the MAGA train for now.

Edit: I keep coming back to a comment he made during the campaign that people just forgot, but truly seems to be something we should've taken to heart.  He literally once said that you absolutely cannot believe anything that people say on TV, and then went on to say you can't necessarily believe it even when *I* say it.  I still don't know exactly how DJT's brain works, but the more I see, the more I realize that his thinking processes are radically different than that of most people and, because of that, he presents a serious out of context problem to his opponents.  The downside to that is that he tends to whip up consternation and fear of betrayal in his own base, exacerbated by the fact that said base has been betrayed so many times that it's become expected behavior.  What a shit storm to have to juggle, and yet so far he's doing it.

And then there's this.  We are still socially conditioned to play by the Queensbury Rules, while the left is perfectly happy to shoot you in the back before the duel starts, and then laugh at you for being so stupid.

One of the things that makes Trump different is that he's willing to fight them at their own game, and his first year in office has demonstrated that they are totally unprepared for that.

I agree with your agree.

Any one who blindly trusts Trump does so based SOLELY on emotion.  There is no reason to trust a man who was for an assault weapons ban before he was against it.  There is no reason to trust a man whose core beliefs on the constitution aren't solidly formed in his 50's.  There is no reason to trust a man who is a serial flipflopper and reality TV star.  If you do, you are just a liberal who is on the right side.   Sorry.

I hope nothing comes of this and its 8d maga chess.  But anybody who believes that based on his past is just stupid.  

IE: He has directed the ATF to find bumpstocks machinegun conversion parts.  Machinegun conversion parts ARE machineguns.  This is how you stretch your legal abilities as a president to ban something without signing new laws.  So the ATF will do as directed and find them to be machineguns.  Then it will get fought in courts, which aren't very pro 2A.

Just think folks, if this was a perfect world with perfect solutions and perfect people we would all be...well...perfectly happy, wouldn't we?

That's how the lying media characterized it.  The reality is somewhat more nuanced.  You should read what the memo says for yourself and not rely on what the media says that it says.

Cliff's notes: BATFE has had a proposal for rulemaking on bump stocks going since December and recently ended taking comments on it, and are reviewing comments.  Trump's memo basically is "hey BATFE guys, that thing you started doing in December for bump stocks, you guys keep on doing that thing while I say some nice bipartisan sounding stuff on TV."

There is also some legalese weasel words in it if you pay attention that makes it look like his expectation is for the BATFE to rule bump stocks are legal, again, but to do so later after things cool off.  Certainly that's one way it can be read, but as I said, we have to wait and see.  It is still possible he's screwing us, but I don't think so yet.

Time will tell.

and arfcom GD goes bananas....happens every time, just like clock work

I think he is screwing us by not full throatedly defending the 2a.  All this does is give the left traction with their arguments.  Nothing more, at best.  Why concede the mere thought that it might be the guns that are the problem?  I just don't see it.

That deal was never going get past the Dems, which was the point, but the beauty of it was that the stipulations of it meant that far more illegal aliens would be deported than would be amnestied while stopping entry of even more.  So even if it had passed, it'd have been a net win.

That was one of the amazing things about that bit of political maneuvering.  Trump created a situation in which all outcomes were a win of some kind.

You're not totally wrong about the whole 'guns being the problem' bit.  Which is why I do not necessarily think Trump's usual political judo games, assuming that's what's going on, is necessarily the way forward.  I see issues with what he's doing even if he's fully on our side still like he was with DACA.

I need some winning on gun rights. I was promised at least a little winning and that I’d be tired of all the winning.

Waiting on the winning.

Well, he didn't drop out or lose.

I'm not going to give up on Trump or MAGA.

If it was easy anyone could do this.

This is our best chance to drain the swamp IMO.

MAGA!

At this point in his presidency, I'll wait until he's putting pen to paper on a bill before passing judgement.

This is where I'm at.

I think

This is a whole new game in DC, a game we are not use to seeing.
So, I'm trying to let go and roll with it.

It's hard though, knowing how politicians operate.

I've been extremely happy with his presidency to this point.
I'm cautiously optimistic based on the past year, but HOLY FUCK is his directive concerning.

To all the fervent trumpeteers, are you at least calling and voicing your displeasure that he is in favor of banning bumpstocks and that giving in to the left at all isn't what we want????  Serious question.

You don’t have to fight gun control if you propose it yourself.

Brilliant. MAGA.

Remeber these words when a lever action is "too much" for mere civilians like in Australia.

Just because you are blind to the winning doesn't mean it hasn't been happening.

Sorry your girl lost

Trump doesn't have to sign the ban on bump stocks.  He is using the same tactic that Clinton, GW Bush, and Obama used of having the ATF change their regulations to ban things.

I supported Trump long before it was the cool thing to do.  Back when I was called every name in the book for supporting him during the primary.  I've followed Trump for 2 1/2 years and think I have a pretty good idea of how he operates.  This isn't 4D chess.  This is Trump taking action and pushing more restrictions.

What "winning" have we seen as gun owners over the last year?  Please walk the blind through it.

Just jump the fuck off. If you have to threaten your support when it gets a little bumpy, you aren't cut out for MAGA

Vote for one of your GOP loser candidates next time who wouldn't have put up 1% of the fight he has

None. But that is not what I quoted, was it?

Did you expect to get a pro gun bill passed the day after 58 people died?

We have been winning for the last year and one month.  Or is it that you're a one issue voter?

I’m an all issue voter.

Attached File

Political discourse follows a certain etiquette, and DJT jumps into their OODA Loop and they don't know how to counter that since they've never dealt with someone who both wasn't a politician and un-afraid of being call whatever -ist of the day.

Still getting my MAGA on everyday

You're talking about a guy with the vocabulary of a 4th grader.  Word smithing???

IIRC Trump returned the decision to the ATF.

ATF has to interpret existing law the way it's written and can't manufacture it wholesale. That limits their breadth, whether you believe it or not. So they have to find a specific thing in law about it. And they didn't the first time around. Like stocks or braces on AR pistols, they have vacillated both ways - you could pin a stock short at first, then no stock, now Brace, then Don't Shoulder That Brace, now we get the F- it Don't Bother Us.

Bumpstocks aren't going to be that easy to reverse when the ATF couldn't ban them first time around. Then the ball goes to Congress. Who won't vote on it, likely won't make it out of committee same as the latest FL AWB. Then he just says exactly what he said about the Dems and Obama - hey, eight years and no bills? The people have spoken.

We have already seen much of this kind of stuff. We are talking a man born from a wealthy family, raised in NYC construction politics where every square foot of ground requires city, union, and political approval. Now married to a European Christian who saw purges in her country, son is an NRA member who posts HERE IN THIS FORUM.

But noooooo, Trump is a sellout. No examples to cite, tho. Ignores what he has done: 13,000 sealed indictments, managing a Russian/Trump investigation which exonerated him but implicated the Clintons and FBI, has seen thousands arrested for child trafficking, arranged for the Saudi Crown Prince to arrest bad money in Arabia and they deposed Alwaleed of millions. He's no longer financing ISIS, which collapsed (win) but exposed him as the majority owner of the mass media and then wrote an EO which states if someone got Alwaleed's money, personal or corporate, the US Gov can and will seize the assets as a terrorist organization. Exposing those donations has caused hundreds of CEO's to retire or resign, over 30 Federal reps and senator to quit, and we are moving on DOZENS of investigations including Uranium One, the Clinton Foundation, mass voter fraud, child trafficking, it's a list about three dozen long.

Oh, yeah, Trump is a sellout. Well, if you tell people exactly what you plan to do, they will prevent it, so you don't, you blow a smokescreen across your operation and then you get to do what you need to without their interference. If you want to catch a thief you have to make it look like there is something valuable in the open easy to steal. Even if there isn't - so he "gave us up on bumpstocks!" Really? From the guy who bought developed land in NYC other people wanted and made it work? Are you being serious?

A lot Americans don't even own their own home, but they think Trump is a moron. . .

“a lot Americans” don’t think English be like it is, but it do.

Words have meaning. Trump said capitulatory words.

Going by your statement I quoted, that would be false.

We have been winning on taxes, winning on DACA, winning on draining the swamp, exposing mass quantities of deep state actors/collusion/etc.  I would say that qualifies, at the least, as a little winning.

The statement you quoted was directly related to gun rights genius.

Sorry OP, I have been on the Trump train for a long time but I do not want to ever hear someone who claims to be conservative bring up anything about reviewing or regulating anything arms related.