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UKR
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Posted: 5/26/2022 12:57:00 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By deputyrpa: No. They sent trainees to Kiev to fix Uke troops in place. How does an army take a city of millions guarded by ~100K troops with 30-40K greenies? They don't, and even idiots wouldn't try. Plus, any peace deal would have to be signed by Zelensky. Installing a puppet to sign a deal would be viewed as wildly illegitimate by the entire planet. Right now the Ruskies have pushed through the Uke's depth of defenses and have advanced ~15km. The Uke's have had serious defensive positions in the east for years, and it slowed the Ruskies down for a while. But they pounded them with arty relentlessly. It's not looking good.  I've never heard of the VDV called trainees, but you do you |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 1:01:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1stID: Why can't Russia just buy whatever they need from China? Trade with them hasn't been cut off. And if China doesn't have something, they can just buy it from the west and re-sell it at a markup. It's not like the west is going to raise a stink about that, or anything China does. China made a natural virus incredibly contagious to humans, on purpose or by accident released it into the world with huge damage, and the rest of the world says "Must have been from eating a bat, just like China says. Anything else is a bizarre conspiracy theory". As for Russian money coming in - aren't they making more now than they did before the war started, due to higher oil and gas prices? They demanded being paid in rubles, and Europe had to go along, or go back to romantic candlelight dinners. And breakfasts. And having the power go off. Now the ruble has gone from the rubble, to the highest value it's had. As others have said, from Cuba to Iraq to Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc., sanctions have not worked to change a country's behavior. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1stID: Originally Posted By planemaker: The fact is they don't have money coming in and their foreign-based assets have been frozen. Look at shipment bookings to Russia and you see they are roughly 10% of what they were before the war. They can't get shipments in of critical items they don't make internally and they can't ship out their primary exports because of the sanctions. Note that part of that is insurers refusing to insure ships making Russian port calls either for import or export. Because information is so tightly controlled internally, the impact of the sanctions can't be reported within Russia. Furthermore, much of the inflation we are seeing is self-inflicted by policies from the communist Xiden handlers, not by sanctions we imposed on Russia. We were seeing double digit inflation before the war and the acceleration we're seeing isn't war related, it's Dimorat related. And, the baby formula debacle is also a result of the illegitimate regime squatting in the White House. Stolen elections have consequences. Why can't Russia just buy whatever they need from China? Trade with them hasn't been cut off. And if China doesn't have something, they can just buy it from the west and re-sell it at a markup. It's not like the west is going to raise a stink about that, or anything China does. China made a natural virus incredibly contagious to humans, on purpose or by accident released it into the world with huge damage, and the rest of the world says "Must have been from eating a bat, just like China says. Anything else is a bizarre conspiracy theory". As for Russian money coming in - aren't they making more now than they did before the war started, due to higher oil and gas prices? They demanded being paid in rubles, and Europe had to go along, or go back to romantic candlelight dinners. And breakfasts. And having the power go off. Now the ruble has gone from the rubble, to the highest value it's had. As others have said, from Cuba to Iraq to Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc., sanctions have not worked to change a country's behavior. Not really. The Chinese are set up to produce modern things for western consumers, not ruggedized Russian hardware from the 70's. So, no, they can't get it from us either because we don't make that crap anymore either. The payment schemes for oil and gas haven't changed. Russia demanded to be paid in rubles and Europe has refused. They are paying in Euros which the Russians have to take or leave. And no, the ruble isn't as high as it was before the war. The "official" rate the Kremlin published may be back to pre-war levels, but the financial markets still have the ruble down about 30% last I looked. And, as the Russians can't pay their debts and Russian companies can't sell things, the ruble will collapse further. As countries like Germany wean themselves from the Russian tit, that market for Russian oil and gas will disappear permanently. Same with the rest of Europe. That is what Russia can't recover from. Same with their raw material and agricultural exports. Forcing customers to find alternative sources is a quick and easy way to go broke, which is what the Russians have done to themselves. Sanctions have absolutely caused changes in country's behaviors. Cuba no longer exports mercenaries, for example, nor do they threaten neighbors. Syria has been sanctioned into being irrelevant since they are now a failed nation-state. North Korea? Seriously? They are an international pariah and their behavior has been modified to be far less belligerent because they are dependent entirely on "humanitarian assistance" to keep millions from starving to death. Those who ignore the past make bad decisions in the present. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 1:02:00 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: I've never heard of the VDV called trainees, but you do you I mean, the current VDV are all trainees, now. 
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Posted: 5/26/2022 1:03:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By YaNi05: The T-62's are supposed to be from a reserve unit. So the only thing that would make any sense is that they'll be used for counter-partizan ops behind the lines. There doesn't seem to be any significant tank vs tank battles, so they're only likely to go up against infantry. Their main problem is that they have no ERA, no NV/thermal sights, and almost every AT weapon on the battlefield is capable of defeating them. They do have a manual loader, so it will be interesting to see if they're popping turrets like the autoloaders. Reserve units are what pass as front line units now. We’ve seen the very best units already chewed up and destroyed - they won’t be back this year in any shape resembling what they were. Tanks in anti-partisan warfare are useful as targets, but not as assets. If they are routing them to Crimea, it’s to stuff it full of guns to try and hold it against an anticipated offensive. I don’t personally know where they are going, but would suspect Southern Ukraine as a defensive reinforcement. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 1:14:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1stID]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: You have that completely bassackwards. It is Russia that is losing troops and equipment at an unsustainable rate and at a rate that is several multiples of the Ukrainian losses. Their forward "advance" has come to a virtual halt according to the UK MoD from earlier today. Time *is* on the side of the Ukrainians because they are getting supplied with western weapons at a rate that far surpasses what the Russians can muster. And, the Russians can't easily replace what they are losing whereas the Ukrainians already are. Further, the Ukrainians are gaining ground in many areas while stalemating the Russians in others. The Russian economy is imploding in real time, they can't get critical components to replace what is being lost, and they don't have the money to keep the war going for much longer. This offensive in the east is their last hurrah and it's failing. The notion that Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe and that the weapons being sent there will be stolen is a laughable bunch of complete BS. The Ukrainians are training up soldiers far faster than Russia can conscript and the western weapons will go to the east as crews are trained and integrated into existing units. While we all might want the Ukrainians to push the rooskies back to their own border by tomorrow, the reality of the war is that it will take time, time the Russians don't have and the Ukrainians do. As we've seen posted, several military "experts" are predicting the Russians war effort will collapse completely between June and August, depending on the "expert". Massing fires consumes lots of ammo that the Russians can't replace, same with losing tanks, artillery, aircraft, and personnel. That's a lot of bold statements, presented as verified facts, from someone who like the rest of us is probably sitting at home in the US, reading things off the internet. Lots of "experts" said Russia was going to run out of equipment last week / month. Now it's June or August or sometime in 2023. I don't think any of us really know what the future holds for this war. What I do see is Russia grinding Ukraine forces up, in one small town after another, pushing the Ukraine front lines back to the west. In Kharkiv the Russians were outside the city and holding, and didn't seem to have the size of force needed to conquer it. When pressed, they withdrew, but without the large losses that would indicate they really wanted to stay, or that Ukraine threw them out. From 6000 miles away it seemed more like an effort by Russian to tie up a city and then make Ukraine send forces there to protect it, playing Wack a Mole, while Russia focused on the east. But to a Ukraine supporter that's heresy, and of course Ukraine kicked Russia's ass. Hard to tell from here. Is time truly on Ukraine's side, via NATO equipment, or Russia's, which has a vastly larger capacity than Ukraine does? There's been very little cold hearted, analysis of this war. Far too much cheerleading, using random pictures of blown up equipment (all from a conflict where both sides use very similar equipment so who's who in a random photo?), or this and that factoid being reported in the regular media, of this training camp or that tank being sent it. Western Ukraine Kiev seem in no danger of being overrun, nor Kharkiv (2nd biggest city I believe). The south seems stable beyond some shelling on the front, and various hints of an Ukraine counteroffensive, yet to martialize. The action is in the east, where the Russians are on the move west, and making steady advancement. At some point Ukraine will need to actually use all these NATO weapons and new troops guys here are hanging their hat on, or Ukraine's going to look like the Black Knight in Monty Python - "yes you're all the way to the Dnipro river, but it's just a flesh wound. I have yet to even begin to fight". |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 1:31:36 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Not really. The Chinese are set up to produce modern things for western consumers, not ruggedized Russian hardware from the 70's. So, no, they can't get it from us either because we don't make that crap anymore either. The payment schemes for oil and gas haven't changed. Russia demanded to be paid in rubles and Europe has refused. They are paying in Euros which the Russians have to take or leave. And no, the ruble isn't as high as it was before the war. The "official" rate the Kremlin published may be back to pre-war levels, but the financial markets still have the ruble down about 30% last I looked. And, as the Russians can't pay their debts and Russian companies can't sell things, the ruble will collapse further. As countries like Germany wean themselves from the Russian tit, that market for Russian oil and gas will disappear permanently. Same with the rest of Europe. That is what Russia can't recover from. Same with their raw material and agricultural exports. Forcing customers to find alternative sources is a quick and easy way to go broke, which is what the Russians have done to themselves. Sanctions have absolutely caused changes in country's behaviors. Cuba no longer exports mercenaries, for example, nor do they threaten neighbors. Syria has been sanctioned into being irrelevant since they are now a failed nation-state. North Korea? Seriously? They are an international pariah and their behavior has been modified to be far less belligerent because they are dependent entirely on "humanitarian assistance" to keep millions from starving to death. Those who ignore the past make bad decisions in the present. None of that sanctions stuff above is true. Cube has propped up Venezuela's military for years. They don't send forces to fight in Angola or such anymore, as there's no Cold War. But US sanctions did nothing to modify Cuba's behavior. Syria went through a nasty civil war, won by the side the west sanctioned - to no avail. NK is still launching missiles, working on nukes, and being a pain to all, so sanctions have done nothing to them either. Iraq was on supposedly strict sanctions from Gulf War 1 to Gulf War 2, yet it did nothing to change what they were doing. People place far too much trust in sanctions and what they can do - that's the real bad decision, from ignoring the past. |
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UKR
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Posted: 5/26/2022 1:38:57 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Yes, taking Kyiv was their intent from the get-go. They expected to go to Kyiv, destroy the existing government, and install a puppet regime as per usual Soviet doctrine. This was well publicized contemporaneously. They failed. And, even though they deployed thousands of troops and huge masses of equipment, they ended up getting pushed back to the border by the Ukrainians. In short, the Russians failed and continue to fail. Link to documents? |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 1:41:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: mancow]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: They didn't need to. VDV aren't cannon fodder. Neither are all the aircraft and tanks they lost there. Oh...but actually Putin DID say out loud that he wanted Kiev. They expected little fighting and parades...not Javelins. I supposed they filled YOU in on their strategy? Use some common sense. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Originally Posted By deputyrpa: Originally Posted By bikedamon: That's bullshit revisionism. Putin himself has told eastern european leaders to their face that he could have his troops in 6 different capitals in 2 days. That's exactly what he tried to do, because he thought he actually could, and failed. eta: To say nothing of the fact that installing puppet leaders is literally his MO. The previous Ukr president was a Putin puppet. He has others installed elsewhere right now. I suppose they filled you in on their military strategy then. So you're saying Ruskie General Staff planned to take Kiev with a comparative handful of troops. Right.... Oh, and the OSCE monitored and declared as impressive and fair the 2010 election in which Yanukovych was elected. They didn't need to. VDV aren't cannon fodder. Neither are all the aircraft and tanks they lost there. Oh...but actually Putin DID say out loud that he wanted Kiev. They expected little fighting and parades...not Javelins. I supposed they filled YOU in on their strategy? Use some common sense. Not sure who the they are but I don't believe the they includs Putin. He knew damn well what he was getting into. His guys are a different matter and I can buy that they bought the bullshit about being liberaters. I think the game changer is that he didn't expect the rest of the world to send arms as they did and figured they would shrug it off as they normally had. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 2:02:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Hesperus]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Not sure who the they are but I don't believe the they includs Putin. He knew damn well what he was getting into. His guys are a different matter and I can buy that they bought the bullshit about being liberaters. I think the game changer is that he didn't expect the rest of the world to send arms as they did and figured they would shrug it off as they normally had. Surprise motherfucker! Ukraine isn't Chechnya. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 2:14:09 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: I strongly disagree. Russia was going for a takeover of the entire country and failed. To say they only want Donbas is simply parroting a current Russian talking point they are using to save face. Russia does not have time. It’s the other way around. Attrition favors Ukraine strongly. They are, and will be getting new weapons constantly, while Russia can’t even build their current generation weapons, and are refurbishing very old stock now. A few days of small losses does not mean the war is lost, that’s just not how this works. Russia can declare whatever victory they want, but Ukraine won’t stop fighting. They just wont. This is way past a battle for territory, this is a blood feud amd nothing will satisfy Ukraine until they have back what Russia stole. To even remotely think the war is lost is just absurd.. absolutely absurd. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By AROKIE: What you are failing to understand, that Ukraine already does understand is that they don't have time. There is not an option of giving up land to build up a bigger force. First you need to grasp the fact of "Russia is just blowing its load" is false or past-tense at this stage. Russia has very much learned from there mistakes at the first month of this war. VERY much learned. They are now fighting like a cohesive Combined Arms with strategy, and they are taking land EVERY day. UKRAINE, for the last 5 to 6 days has not been able to stop advances in very strategic places that is imperative for Ukraine to keep. There is no time to spare while they "build up" a force, as you say to stop the Russian onslaught. IF Russia takes DONETSK AND LUHANSK republics then Russia has won. And by all info available as of today it very much looks like that is going to happen, even if russia goes beyond those boundaries and are stopped by Ukraine russia has won this war. You are failing to realize as many are, even world leaders that if Ukraine cannot hold onto those regions NOW. There is no getting them back and a Ukraine that's smaller than Ukraine the day before this invasion started is no Ukraine at all. And the war is lost. Russia will announce they won the war, everythibg will calm down, Ukraine will be smaller and the west's support will come to a stop or close to it. Then it's back to other world problems and elections and the russo-ukraine war will be old news I strongly disagree. Russia was going for a takeover of the entire country and failed. To say they only want Donbas is simply parroting a current Russian talking point they are using to save face. Russia does not have time. It’s the other way around. Attrition favors Ukraine strongly. They are, and will be getting new weapons constantly, while Russia can’t even build their current generation weapons, and are refurbishing very old stock now. A few days of small losses does not mean the war is lost, that’s just not how this works. Russia can declare whatever victory they want, but Ukraine won’t stop fighting. They just wont. This is way past a battle for territory, this is a blood feud amd nothing will satisfy Ukraine until they have back what Russia stole. To even remotely think the war is lost is just absurd.. absolutely absurd. There will come a time that the Influx of advanced weapons will cease from European countries if russia takes those regions and declares an end to there special operation. Of course Ukraine will still try and take them back but with alot less backing and equipment. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 2:59:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: The vid gets really good around 1:20 https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/pn1yzs/footage_of_russian_t62ms_being_reactivated_in_2021/ Also Russia to Prepare Soviet Era T-62M Tanks to Replenish Reserves Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: https://i.imgur.com/f5AZ2aj.jpg The Russians are moving a shit ton of T-62s into Crimea  https://nitter.net/UAWeapons/status/1529404520828133380#m That's almost equivalent to a BMP-3, but the T-62 can't fire atgm's The T-62M CAN fire ATGMs. 9M117 Bastion through the barrel.  I forgot about that. That's scraping the bottom of the barrel though with these things.https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/pn1yzs/footage_of_russian_t62ms_being_reactivated_in_2021/ Also Russia to Prepare Soviet Era T-62M Tanks to Replenish Reserves I'm no tech-priest, but I'm pretty sure that accordion music is NOT the proper way to reawaken the slumbering "machine spirit" of those tanks.
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Posted: 5/26/2022 3:48:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jack67]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By XeroSygnal: I'm no tech-priest, but I'm pretty sure that accordion music is NOT the proper way to reawaken the slumbering "machine spirit" of those tanks. That was… weird. OTOH, boy did that T-62M actually look well-maintained. But still completely antiquated. They lifted the armored engine deck with one arm. Why did the “repair depot” have no tools, supplies, or parts in it? Anyaway - A modern 20mm cannon would disassemble that tank in no time. And has. Meanwhile, the guys at UZV are getting the next round of depot refurbs ready, SU-100s and T-34-85s.   Attached File |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 3:53:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/EB39BE54-EBC1-4E2E-8DA4-0008C8D98880_jpe-2397077.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: NATO doesn’t want instability. This whole situation is making the Europeans very anxious and they convey that to Washington D.C. Also, putting out feelers helps you gauge an opponent and helps assess them. How does Russia react? Kind of a waste of time imo though as neither Kiev or Moscow want to compromise and the Pentagon acknowledged that reality today in a press release. I don’t see Kiev taking Crimea by Christmas but as of now that’s their outspoken goal.https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-russia-united-states-peace-deal-terms-1709282?amp=1https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-05-25/eu-cracks-widen-over-ukraine-as-italy-hungary-urge-truce?context=amphttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/164F7DE5-F490-49D7-8671-ED029F44A07B_jpe-2397073.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/EB39BE54-EBC1-4E2E-8DA4-0008C8D98880_jpe-2397077.JPG I said it before. Italy is just as traiterous as the germans, it just slips under the radar. And orban is a POS and probably paid by the russians and chincoms. |
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UKR
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Posted: 5/26/2022 3:54:40 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: I mean, the current VDV are all trainees, now. Losing half the entire airborne element leads to that 
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Posted: 5/26/2022 4:04:01 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Abakan: I said it before. Italy is just as traiterous as the germans, it just slips under the radar. And orban is a POS and probably paid by the russians and chincoms. That reminds me of my favorite Italian Army joke. Berlin, June 10th, 1940: “Mein Fuhrer, Italy has entered the war!” “Ach, this is no problem. Send two divisions to the Brenner Pass and we’ll have no problems.” “No, mein Fuhrer, they are on OUR side!” “Oh, that’s very different and a bigger problem. Send 10 divisions.” |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 4:24:32 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1stID: Why can't Russia just buy whatever they need from China? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1stID: Originally Posted By planemaker: The fact is they don't have money coming in and their foreign-based assets have been frozen. Look at shipment bookings to Russia and you see they are roughly 10% of what they were before the war. They can't get shipments in of critical items they don't make internally and they can't ship out their primary exports because of the sanctions. Note that part of that is insurers refusing to insure ships making Russian port calls either for import or export. Because information is so tightly controlled internally, the impact of the sanctions can't be reported within Russia. Furthermore, much of the inflation we are seeing is self-inflicted by policies from the communist Xiden handlers, not by sanctions we imposed on Russia. We were seeing double digit inflation before the war and the acceleration we're seeing isn't war related, it's Dimorat related. And, the baby formula debacle is also a result of the illegitimate regime squatting in the White House. Stolen elections have consequences. Why can't Russia just buy whatever they need from China? Like tires for their trucks? |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 5:25:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Russian suicide drone (their version of the Switchblade 300/600 / Polish Warmate) used to brutal effect against a group of UA infantry.
Drones like this will be a feature of the modern battlefield going forward; we're likely to view the IED days of GWOT as the 'good old days' 20 years from now.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 5:32:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Preliminary look inside Azovstal:
 Pro-Russian soldiers explore abandoned Azovstal steel works in Mariupol  Debris and rubble inside Azovstal steel plant |
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USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 5:38:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mbinky: The T62 requires a crewman to load. I wonder how many well trained loaders the Russians have laying around since all of their newer tanks use auto loaders. Loading requires training? Really? |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 5:40:34 AM EDT
[#20]
Incredible grenade fighting / trench clearing here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uxqo2j/assault_on_the_ukrainian_trenches_by_the_4th/ Poor guy from the 2:37 mark onwards, laid down covering fire so his friend could withdraw and held until the end. See him continually throwing incoming grenades out of his position until presumably shrapnel gets him. Fought like a lion. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 5:43:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Firefly1032: With modern day drones (even RU’s crummy ones), PGMs, and contested air superiority in the east - wouldn’t they just be subjected to tracking and destroyed when they go somewhere to be refit? We’ve seen countless videos of AA systems and other platforms getting zapped where they sleep so to speak. How does UA prevent this from happening? It isn’t like they are getting an endless supply. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Firefly1032: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: Originally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-kyiv-0c74a0c16b834732b81e460450da3131 the governor of the Luhansk region of the Donbas said the area is facing its “most difficult time” in the eight years since separatist fighting erupted there. “The Russians are advancing in all directions at the same time. They brought over an insane number of fighters and equipment,” the governor, Serhii Haidai, wrote on Telegram. “The invaders are killing our cities, destroying everything around.” He added that Luhansk is becoming “like Mariupol.” Christ. Ukraine needs more people and more weapons right fucking now.  More than anything I think they need those GPS guided MLRS from HIMARS so they can start zapping Russian artillery from standoff distances. https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/products/guided-mlrs-unitary-rocket.html Alas, we seem to be pussing out about sending these: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/18/biden-resists-ukrainian-demands-long-range-rocket-launchers-00033473 With modern day drones (even RU’s crummy ones), PGMs, and contested air superiority in the east - wouldn’t they just be subjected to tracking and destroyed when they go somewhere to be refit? We’ve seen countless videos of AA systems and other platforms getting zapped where they sleep so to speak. How does UA prevent this from happening? It isn’t like they are getting an endless supply. I imagine they would be just as surviveable / unsurvivable as artillery and tanks, which UA still manages to employ with success despite losses. The advantage of HIMARS is that they would be able to be fired from beyond most artillery range, so would only have to be protected from aircraft and missiles. And with GPS guidance even firing a few sorties before being destroyed would allow them to zap a lot of high value targets if they get within range. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 5:52:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Loading requires training? Really? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By mbinky: The T62 requires a crewman to load. I wonder how many well trained loaders the Russians have laying around since all of their newer tanks use auto loaders. Loading requires training? Really? Yes. If you want it done right. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 6:04:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mbinky: Yes. If you want it done right. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mbinky: Originally Posted By 4xGM300m: Originally Posted By mbinky: The T62 requires a crewman to load. I wonder how many well trained loaders the Russians have laying around since all of their newer tanks use auto loaders. Loading requires training? Really? Yes. If you want it done right. 1 hour? Maybe 2? I'm just curious. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 6:06:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: That was… weird. OTOH, boy did that T-62M actually look well-maintained. But still completely antiquated. They lifted the armored engine deck with one arm. Why did the “repair depot” have no tools, supplies, or parts in it? Anyaway - A modern 20mm cannon would disassemble that tank in no time. And has. Meanwhile, the guys at UZV are getting the next round of depot refurbs ready, SU-100s and T-34-85s. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/AC3066D9-B428-4445-8468-817FDA2311C9_png-2397470.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By XeroSygnal: I'm no tech-priest, but I'm pretty sure that accordion music is NOT the proper way to reawaken the slumbering "machine spirit" of those tanks. That was… weird. OTOH, boy did that T-62M actually look well-maintained. But still completely antiquated. They lifted the armored engine deck with one arm. Why did the “repair depot” have no tools, supplies, or parts in it? Anyaway - A modern 20mm cannon would disassemble that tank in no time. And has. Meanwhile, the guys at UZV are getting the next round of depot refurbs ready, SU-100s and T-34-85s. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/AC3066D9-B428-4445-8468-817FDA2311C9_png-2397470.JPG Hey I played that map in Battlefield |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 6:09:06 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: There really can't be a stalemate if there is no one left on the other side to fight back. I hope UKR can push them back out but I don't know if UKR has the man power push them back from defensive positions and with no one left for an insurgency the Russians very well could hold the territory. I hope I'm wrong .... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2tired2run: Originally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By 2tired2run: Originally Posted By planemaker: I'd have to disagree wholeheartedly with this assessment. First, the UK MOD posting from earlier today seems to indicate that the Russian advances in virtually all areas have stalled. The could be because Ukraine is getting better at stopping them, terrain is working against the Russians, the Russians are running out of massed artillery fire ability (destroyed or no ammo) or some combination thereof (most likely). Next, the Ukrainians appear to be taking a send-it kind of approach to the western gear. When they get a group trained up on it, they send it to "today's" hot spot to integrate with the existing units. How well that works depends on whether 1-5 guns is going to be decisive to thwart a specific localized Russian advance. Third, the Russians aren't really advancing as much as they are flattening anything ahead of them then claiming "success". This tactic doesn't help them "win" or maintain control over the region and, in fact, is counter-productive to that control. They already know they don't have the money to rebuild, re-settle ethnic Russians into a bombed-out area, and try to integrate now-destroyed cities and towns into Russia's SOI. Finally, since the loss-rate of Russian troops and equipment appears to be a multiple of Ukrainian losses, that doesn't lend itself to being able to sustain a war of attrition, it detracts from it. Every day Russia loses more men and materiel, their economy erodes further, and their status as a pariah nation becomes more solidified. If, as some reports suggest, that the big Russian offensive in the east has, in fact, failed, then Russia is guaranteed to lose the war. Even if the Russian advance is slowed to a crawl, they don't have the wherewithal to maintain a crawl pace long enough to consolidate control of the east or the south. It appears to be a pipe dream at this point. The part in bold is exactly what they're doing and I don't think they care about future control or integration though. They just want to clear everyone out and create a buffer plus own the water/sea lanes. I think they will continue to flatten everything and kill anyone in front of them. Perhaps but they don't have sufficient stockpiles of men, machinery, and supplies to make that happen. And, when they run out of one or all of those, and they will, then what? Do they pull back to reconstitute or just get destroyed in place? Either you are winning or you are losing. In this conflict, Ukraine has made it abundantly clear they are going to push the Russians out of their country entirely. That being the case, it's not good enough to get to a stalemate because Ukraine will ultimately push them back to the Russian border. There really can't be a stalemate if there is no one left on the other side to fight back. I hope UKR can push them back out but I don't know if UKR has the man power push them back from defensive positions and with no one left for an insurgency the Russians very well could hold the territory. I hope I'm wrong .... The real nightmare is if Russia controls territory enough that they are able to officially annex it and declare it Part of Russia. At which point they will frame any attempt at counter attack / liberations as an Invasion of Russia... They have made previous mention that they would consider any attempt at retaking Crimea as an Invasion of Russia which could (actually) see the deployment of nuclear weapons, as opposed to the normal saber rattling. Thats the real risk of an Armstice / cease fire / allowing Russia to control territory. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 6:14:38 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: "Before retreating from the Brovary district, the occupiers threw out several boxes of shells to free up space for loading the loot The adviser to the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Anton Gerashchenko told about it. According to him, the orcs robbed the locals, taking away even home canning and kitchen utensils, but faced the problem of how to take it all out ... And they came up with nothing better than to get rid of the ammunition of their armored vehicle and throw all the shells into the lake "We are at war with mentally retarded orcs, who sincerely believe that the colander and pickled tomatoes are more important in battle than shells," joked an adviser to the Interior Minister." LOL one of the best quotes of the war so far. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 6:15:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: 1 hour? Maybe 2? I'm just curious. You can be taught how to actually load in probably under 30 minutes. But it takes time to be able to do it smoothly, without screwing up what you have to do, and to do it quickly. I ran loader for a few months and I sucked. I could never get my times down and I was never as smooth as the guys whose job it was. A good loader can make a huge difference in a fight. When the TC or gunner is on a target about to kill them a loader fumbling the round, the safe/arm lever, or just plain old taking too long it can make a difference. Now the loader is the second most junior spot in an American tank so it doesn't require a huge amount of skill but yes, if you watch two tanks shooting on a range and one has a crappy loader you can absolutely tell the difference. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 6:16:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Russian suicide drone (their version of the Switchblade 300/600 / Polish Warmate) used to brutal effect against a group of UA infantry. Drones like this will be a feature of the modern battlefield going forward; we're likely to view the IED days of GWOT as the 'good old days' 20 years from now.
I've never been a big social distancing guy...but... |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 6:18:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: The russian military culture is to allow pillaging in return for military service. They use rape and pillaging as a perk, seriously. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By Dracster: "Before retreating from the Brovary district, the occupiers threw out several boxes of shells to free up space for loading the loot The adviser to the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Anton Gerashchenko told about it. According to him, the orcs robbed the locals, taking away even home canning and kitchen utensils, but faced the problem of how to take it all out ... And they came up with nothing better than to get rid of the ammunition of their armored vehicle and throw all the shells into the lake "We are at war with mentally retarded orcs, who sincerely believe that the colander and pickled tomatoes are more important in battle than shells," joked an adviser to the Interior Minister." https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-05-25_15-58-43_jpg-2396911.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-05-25_15-58-41_jpg-2396912.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/48680/photo_2022-05-25_15-58-39_jpg-2396913.JPG The russian military culture is to allow pillaging in return for military service. They use rape and pillaging as a perk, seriously. Loo! loo! Lulu! lulu! Loo! loo! Loot! loot! loot! Ow the loot! Bloomin' loot! That's the thing to make the boys git up an' shoot! https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/loot.html |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 6:50:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TopBillin]
[#30]
One of the saddest videos I've see so far. Russians are clearing a Ukrainian trench. One Ukrainian gets cut off in a branch and fights on. At 2:22 the lead Russian is gunned down by a retreating Ukrainian leaving the lone ukro soldier cut off. Russians commence to throw hand grenades at him, 2 of which he manages to throw back at them (3:16 the first one), but is finally wounded and unable to fight on.
EDIT: Never mind, already posted above. I'll leave the link up as it is Youtube.  video 2022 05 25 23 19 23 |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 7:15:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: There's videos and photos of a "Tank Train" moving through Russia that surfaced yesterday. It has maybe 50 T-62s on flatcars... The videos showed up at different times, from different people. Twitter, Reddit, Telegram Here's one Are they actually going to try and use them? Who knows. I guess we'll find out for sure the first time a Stugna P turns one inside out -edit-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kc7fLhnxb8That's the video that was posted to Twitter yesterday Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: Originally Posted By DOW: Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Russia is in trouble, they are sending t62s to staging areas in Russia. Source please. Genuinely interested. There's videos and photos of a "Tank Train" moving through Russia that surfaced yesterday. It has maybe 50 T-62s on flatcars... The videos showed up at different times, from different people. Twitter, Reddit, Telegram Here's one Are they actually going to try and use them? Who knows. I guess we'll find out for sure the first time a Stugna P turns one inside out -edit- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kc7fLhnxb8That's the video that was posted to Twitter yesterday |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 7:33:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: iggy1337]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CB1: T-62s are pre auto loader... four man crew. now many are trained proficiently? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CB1: Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: Originally Posted By DOW: Originally Posted By gentlemanfarmer: Russia is in trouble, they are sending t62s to staging areas in Russia. Source please. Genuinely interested. There's videos and photos of a "Tank Train" moving through Russia that surfaced yesterday. It has maybe 50 T-62s on flatcars... The videos showed up at different times, from different people. Twitter, Reddit, Telegram Here's one Are they actually going to try and use them? Who knows. I guess we'll find out for sure the first time a Stugna P turns one inside out -edit- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kc7fLhnxb8That's the video that was posted to Twitter yesterday Wouldn't a just about any anti tank weapon like RPG 7s ect be able to take them out? Is a Javelin in top attack mode on one of those in danger of disurbing the earth's core? |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 7:44:37 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iggy1337: Wouldn't a just about any anti tank weapon like RPG 7s ect be able to take them out? Is a Javelin in top attack mode on one of those in danger of disurbing the earth's core? Yes and yes. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 7:49:26 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 5/26/2022 7:52:45 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1stID: That's a lot of bold statements, presented as verified facts, from someone who like the rest of us is probably sitting at home in the US, reading things off the internet. Lots of "experts" said Russia was going to run out of equipment last week / month. Now it's June or August or sometime in 2023. I don't think any of us really know what the future holds for this war. What I do see is Russia grinding Ukraine forces up, in one small town after another, pushing the Ukraine front lines back to the west. In Kharkiv the Russians were outside the city and holding, and didn't seem to have the size of force needed to conquer it. When pressed, they withdrew, but without the large losses that would indicate they really wanted to stay, or that Ukraine threw them out. From 6000 miles away it seemed more like an effort by Russian to tie up a city and then make Ukraine send forces there to protect it, playing Wack a Mole, while Russia focused on the east. But to a Ukraine supporter that's heresy, and of course Ukraine kicked Russia's ass. Hard to tell from here. Is time truly on Ukraine's side, via NATO equipment, or Russia's, which has a vastly larger capacity than Ukraine does? There's been very little cold hearted, analysis of this war. Far too much cheerleading, using random pictures of blown up equipment (all from a conflict where both sides use very similar equipment so who's who in a random photo?), or this and that factoid being reported in the regular media, of this training camp or that tank being sent it. Western Ukraine Kiev seem in no danger of being overrun, nor Kharkiv (2nd biggest city I believe). The south seems stable beyond some shelling on the front, and various hints of an Ukraine counteroffensive, yet to martialize. The action is in the east, where the Russians are on the move west, and making steady advancement. At some point Ukraine will need to actually use all these NATO weapons and new troops guys here are hanging their hat on, or Ukraine's going to look like the Black Knight in Monty Python - "yes you're all the way to the Dnipro river, but it's just a flesh wound. I have yet to even begin to fight". I agree we have no idea how the war will turnout and UA is losing small amounts of ground in the South. But they also lost ground during the start and look how that turned out. You're posts remind me of the crying bro meme |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 7:58:50 AM EDT
[#36]
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USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 8:06:03 AM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 5/26/2022 8:14:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: The S-500 haven't been deployed to Syria. It just got to Moscow this year. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By AZ_Mike: F-35s laugh in Hebrew at Russian hundreds series. The S-500 haven't been deployed to Syria. It just got to Moscow this year. Given RUs secure radio failure, lets see how the S-500 performs. On paper it works, but when the RU mafia and payoffs are added, expect the system to have lots of "bugs" |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 8:27:21 AM EDT
[#39]
Inside Ukraine’s Daring Helicopter Missions Into Russian-Occupied Mariupol
With Ukrainian troops besieged in a massive steel plant and under constant fire from Russian forces, helicopter crews sprung into action. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/exclusive-details-of-ukraines-daring-helicopter-missions-into-russian-occupied-mariupol New details are coming to light about incredibly daring resupply missions that were flown by Ukrainian helicopter crews right into the heart of the fighting in the occupied seaport city of Mariupol. Flying two at a time and once four at a time, Ukrainian Mi-8 Hip helicopter crews braved dense Russian air defense and enemy aircraft concentrated in and around Mariupol to deliver desperately needed supplies and fresh troops to the defenders of the besieged Azovstal steel plant. Of the 16 total helicopters involved, two were destroyed, Ukraine Brig. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov, the head of Defense Intelligence of Ukraine, told The War Zone in an exclusive series of interviews. Another helicopter was destroyed coming to the rescue of one of the downed Hips. “The special operation was planned and performed by Defense Intelligence of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine,” said Budanov, offering previously unreported details of those dangerous missions. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 8:32:22 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drakich: Thickest armor on a T-62 is -250mm. Even old RPG-7 warheads will penetrate 500mm. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Drakich: Originally Posted By Dominion21: Originally Posted By Jack67: The T-62 basically is a "cutting edge T-55." It's the same basic and contemporary evolution as an M48 Patton/M60. I don't think there's been a (Russian) systematic upgrade of them since the mid-80s. A lot of them went up against Abrams and Bradleys in the Gulf War, and it wasn't pretty 30 years ago, even Bradley vs T-62. I can't imagine Russia has invested a single kopek on real upgrades on their inventory since then, and certainly not enough in maintenance. It will be a slaughter. Could a Ukrainian RPG-7 take out a T-62? Thickest armor on a T-62 is -250mm. Even old RPG-7 warheads will penetrate 500mm. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 8:33:51 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 58Teague:
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Posted: 5/26/2022 8:42:54 AM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 5/26/2022 8:47:34 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Keep advancing? In the second month they gave up half the territory they gained in the first month and in the third month they pushed a tenth of the front 15km forward and you say they keep advancing like that’s something impressive? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Originally Posted By 1stID: The counter-argument I've seen is that they are older, tanks left in storage in the Crimea, and the Russians are going to give them to the local National Guard style forces, not use them for their own forces. Besides, wasn't Russia supposed to be out of missals and tanks and men and fuel over two months ago? And yet, they keep advancing. Keep advancing? In the second month they gave up half the territory they gained in the first month and in the third month they pushed a tenth of the front 15km forward and you say they keep advancing like that’s something impressive? Kharkiv is the big deal right now. They just retook their second biggest city. They are expending a lot of resources on expanding their hold on the areas around Kharkiv. The UA military is holding back Russia in a front that is hundreds of kilometers long. But they are also mounting counter offensives in the south from Kherson to Dontesk. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 8:49:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SlipperyTuna: The Chechen president Ramzan Kadyrov has threatened Poland: “Ukraine is already a closed issue. I'm interested in Poland.. we'll show what we are capable of in 6 seconds. Better get yr weapons (Poles)”  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 8:59:45 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kilroymcb: I haven't seen any evidence that the Ukrainians are "throwing everything they have". They have hundreds of thousands of men in training and several brigades on the border with Belarus and Transnistria. If anything, it appears they are using economy of force and trying to hold on with "just enough" for as long as possible. The reason you would do this is so that you can use the combat power elsewhere or at a later time. Hence, the offensive that forced the Russians away from Kharkiv just a few days ago. Russians have numerical superiority in local sectors of the battlefields in the east. They do NOT have numerical superiority in Ukraine as a whole. But with Zelensky's goal of 1 million troops even local superiority isn't going to last. Even so, they are drawing ancient relics out of storage for combat. T-62's? What's next T-55's? Why do you think they would be doing that if they have thousands of T-72's in storage? They've suffered heavy losses of their best tank forces. There were never as many late model, upgraded tanks as people were led to believe. They were being pilfered in storage, sold off, cannibalized to keep the parades going. The T-62's and 64's were their deep reserves and ultimately destined to be sold off to client states as monkey models - the Syrias, African republics, Venezuela, whoever. And how about the Russian AeroSpace Force? Flying around with handheld GPS to strike targets with coordinates from hand penciled notes. You are witnessing a slow motion apocalypse. And your normalcy bias (or just perhaps your desire to spite the people you hate, your cultural enemies, the managerial class) is perhaps, leading you astray. As far as Smug Satisfaction goes, I have a little thrill in my heart at the sight of every popped top of a Russian tank or crispy comrade stuck in a death rictus hanging halfway out of a BMP. I consider that Javelin money well spent. They started a war of aggression for the purpose of territorial conquest. The intention was absolutely to destroy Ukraine and reduce its people to a state of terrified servitude Instead, Russia is bleeding itself out day by day. They are extending the process by utilizing their poor meat puppets in the DPR and LPR, press-ganged off the streets so they can keep their own casualties low. But you've got refusers whole units refusing to fight now. Eventually there won't be enough Chechens to murder and bully them into submission. And then the Chechens will have to do something beyond making Tik Tok videos. Russia is a semi-peripheral country. A 2nd world country, at its base. They are down to using scavenged household appliances to furnish components for missiles. Because they are incapable of providing their own. They will run out of the good stuff. It's just a matter of time. And then their casualties grow even faster. At the same time, slowly and shittily, the west is re-equipping Ukraine with NATO gear. This is a clue for the future. It is going to be big business feeding 155mm artillery shells, 5.56 NATO, 81mm and 60mm mortars, SINCGARS, Harris radios This is the new frontier the military industrial complex. Every NATO arms consortium is going to be showcasing its weapons against poor DPR bastards east of the Dneiper. And yeah, some of it will be stolen. But so what? This is already very clearly, not Afghanistan. The Ukrainians are really in this to fight. Not to just make money as long as they can then trample each other climbing into the ass end of a C17 to the land of the big PX. A great deal of that equipment is going to be used as intended. Unlike Afghanistan, NATO can't just abandon them and pretend they don't exist. They aren't some land locked country on the literal opposite side of the world. Ukraine directly borders two NATO countries, which from a treaty perspective, is the same as bordering Maine. So, yeah. Things will be dicey and go back and forth. But, I see time as favoring the Ukrainians. Not Russia. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kilroymcb: Originally Posted By 1stID: Seems to be impressive enough to the Ukrainians, as they're throwing everything they have, including various Territorial Defense Units to the eastern front, and still are getting pushed back. All the magic weapons promised to them from NATO countries aren't doing the job in keeping the Russians at bay, who are doing their modern Winter War method of using massive arty strikes to slowly, grindly, advance, take control of areas, and kill lots of their opponents. If Russia is doing that badly, as all media outlets constantly claim, always with the same Smug Satisfaction!!! as when they would report on the death of someone from the Wuhan, who hadn't gotten a Wuhan shot, why are they able to keep advancing on the eastern front? Calm before the Ukrainian counteroffensive? Just days/weeks/months before those "crippling" sanctions kick in, and Russian can't afford to load up a single 5.45mm round? E Media hype, Defenders of Snake Island the Ghost of Kiev, and Smug Satisfaction! aside, facts on the ground are not favorable to Ukraine. Their forces are being ground up and destroyed, in one unpronounceable town after the other by the Russians. Ukraine seems to think that time is on their side, and that the longer the war continues, the better off conditions will be for them, via the massive inflow of NATO weapons and (most importantly) money, most of which will be stolen - Ukraine is one of the most corrupt counties in Europe. But so far, sanctions on Russia (most of which don't matter, as the increase in the price of oil and gas have made up for them) and NATO weapons have not turned the tide. Ukraine is losing troops and equipment that is at a rate not sustainable, all while continuing to lose ground. Russians have numerical superiority in local sectors of the battlefields in the east. They do NOT have numerical superiority in Ukraine as a whole. But with Zelensky's goal of 1 million troops even local superiority isn't going to last. Even so, they are drawing ancient relics out of storage for combat. T-62's? What's next T-55's? Why do you think they would be doing that if they have thousands of T-72's in storage? They've suffered heavy losses of their best tank forces. There were never as many late model, upgraded tanks as people were led to believe. They were being pilfered in storage, sold off, cannibalized to keep the parades going. The T-62's and 64's were their deep reserves and ultimately destined to be sold off to client states as monkey models - the Syrias, African republics, Venezuela, whoever. And how about the Russian AeroSpace Force? Flying around with handheld GPS to strike targets with coordinates from hand penciled notes. You are witnessing a slow motion apocalypse. And your normalcy bias (or just perhaps your desire to spite the people you hate, your cultural enemies, the managerial class) is perhaps, leading you astray. As far as Smug Satisfaction goes, I have a little thrill in my heart at the sight of every popped top of a Russian tank or crispy comrade stuck in a death rictus hanging halfway out of a BMP. I consider that Javelin money well spent. They started a war of aggression for the purpose of territorial conquest. The intention was absolutely to destroy Ukraine and reduce its people to a state of terrified servitude Instead, Russia is bleeding itself out day by day. They are extending the process by utilizing their poor meat puppets in the DPR and LPR, press-ganged off the streets so they can keep their own casualties low. But you've got refusers whole units refusing to fight now. Eventually there won't be enough Chechens to murder and bully them into submission. And then the Chechens will have to do something beyond making Tik Tok videos. Russia is a semi-peripheral country. A 2nd world country, at its base. They are down to using scavenged household appliances to furnish components for missiles. Because they are incapable of providing their own. They will run out of the good stuff. It's just a matter of time. And then their casualties grow even faster. At the same time, slowly and shittily, the west is re-equipping Ukraine with NATO gear. This is a clue for the future. It is going to be big business feeding 155mm artillery shells, 5.56 NATO, 81mm and 60mm mortars, SINCGARS, Harris radios This is the new frontier the military industrial complex. Every NATO arms consortium is going to be showcasing its weapons against poor DPR bastards east of the Dneiper. And yeah, some of it will be stolen. But so what? This is already very clearly, not Afghanistan. The Ukrainians are really in this to fight. Not to just make money as long as they can then trample each other climbing into the ass end of a C17 to the land of the big PX. A great deal of that equipment is going to be used as intended. Unlike Afghanistan, NATO can't just abandon them and pretend they don't exist. They aren't some land locked country on the literal opposite side of the world. Ukraine directly borders two NATO countries, which from a treaty perspective, is the same as bordering Maine. So, yeah. Things will be dicey and go back and forth. But, I see time as favoring the Ukrainians. Not Russia. You should post more. 
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Posted: 5/26/2022 9:01:16 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kilroymcb: I haven't seen any evidence that the Ukrainians are "throwing everything they have". They have hundreds of thousands of men in training and several brigades on the border with Belarus and Transnistria. If anything, it appears they are using economy of force and trying to hold on with "just enough" for as long as possible. The reason you would do this is so that you can use the combat power elsewhere or at a later time. Hence, the offensive that forced the Russians away from Kharkiv just a few days ago. Russians have numerical superiority in local sectors of the battlefields in the east. They do NOT have numerical superiority in Ukraine as a whole. But with Zelensky's goal of 1 million troops even local superiority isn't going to last. Even so, they are drawing ancient relics out of storage for combat. T-62's? What's next T-55's? Why do you think they would be doing that if they have thousands of T-72's in storage? They've suffered heavy losses of their best tank forces. There were never as many late model, upgraded tanks as people were led to believe. They were being pilfered in storage, sold off, cannibalized to keep the parades going. The T-62's and 64's were their deep reserves and ultimately destined to be sold off to client states as monkey models - the Syrias, African republics, Venezuela, whoever. And how about the Russian AeroSpace Force? Flying around with handheld GPS to strike targets with coordinates from hand penciled notes. You are witnessing a slow motion apocalypse. And your normalcy bias (or just perhaps your desire to spite the people you hate, your cultural enemies, the managerial class) is perhaps, leading you astray. As far as Smug Satisfaction goes, I have a little thrill in my heart at the sight of every popped top of a Russian tank or crispy comrade stuck in a death rictus hanging halfway out of a BMP. I consider that Javelin money well spent. They started a war of aggression for the purpose of territorial conquest. The intention was absolutely to destroy Ukraine and reduce its people to a state of terrified servitude Instead, Russia is bleeding itself out day by day. They are extending the process by utilizing their poor meat puppets in the DPR and LPR, press-ganged off the streets so they can keep their own casualties low. But you've got refusers whole units refusing to fight now. Eventually there won't be enough Chechens to murder and bully them into submission. And then the Chechens will have to do something beyond making Tik Tok videos. Russia is a semi-peripheral country. A 2nd world country, at its base. They are down to using scavenged household appliances to furnish components for missiles. Because they are incapable of providing their own. They will run out of the good stuff. It's just a matter of time. And then their casualties grow even faster. At the same time, slowly and shittily, the west is re-equipping Ukraine with NATO gear. This is a clue for the future. It is going to be big business feeding 155mm artillery shells, 5.56 NATO, 81mm and 60mm mortars, SINCGARS, Harris radios This is the new frontier the military industrial complex. Every NATO arms consortium is going to be showcasing its weapons against poor DPR bastards east of the Dneiper. And yeah, some of it will be stolen. But so what? This is already very clearly, not Afghanistan. The Ukrainians are really in this to fight. Not to just make money as long as they can then trample each other climbing into the ass end of a C17 to the land of the big PX. A great deal of that equipment is going to be used as intended. Unlike Afghanistan, NATO can't just abandon them and pretend they don't exist. They aren't some land locked country on the literal opposite side of the world. Ukraine directly borders two NATO countries, which from a treaty perspective, is the same as bordering Maine. So, yeah. Things will be dicey and go back and forth. But, I see time as favoring the Ukrainians. Not Russia. Perfectly put. You just saved me a whole morning of posting replies. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/26/2022 9:02:50 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: I mean, the current VDV are all trainees, now. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 1Andy2: Originally Posted By fadedsun: I've never heard of the VDV called trainees, but you do you I mean, the current VDV are all trainees, now. 
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Posted: 5/26/2022 9:05:00 AM EDT
[#48]
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ISR
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Posted: 5/26/2022 9:10:03 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Speaking generally, they absolutely do that sort of thing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Originally Posted By Star_Scream: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Ukrainian Switchblade 300 team operating in the East.
Neat DARPA should be there testing the lethality of new designs through Ukrainian field testers. Speaking generally, they absolutely do that sort of thing. DARPA or Redstone Arsenal? DARPA’s work is largely in the realm of technology that is decades away from fielding; really advanced concepts that seem like science fiction at present. They get roped into some near-term projects like AI, but that’s the exception. |
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Posted: 5/26/2022 9:11:06 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kilroymcb: The 2014 sanctions have been crippling to the Russian arms industry. The Russians admitted this themselves. Export controls will make every company fear providing the Russians with anything that can be traced back to them because it will mean being individually excluded from he US market. If they could just buy the shit they needed from the Chinese, than why haven't they been? Why are they running out of missiles? As for the ruble being the highest its ever been https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/62232/2C1DBB30-51B9-4C3E-98D2-B8BFDE67E6F0_jpe-2397437.JPG So, you're saying buy some rubles to go with my dinars? |
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