User Panel
Posted: 9/26/2022 8:41:43 PM EDT
UK Defense source says Russia used underwater drones in the attack.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-probably-bombed-nord-stream-pipeline-with-underwater-drone-says-defence-source-wkkcgshzv 4th leak reported. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/4th-leak-reported-on-nord-stream-pipelines-in-baltic-sea/ar-AA12npDb?cvid=2f9c5c4c85164b5294f18d9a990f793e The now defunct Russian-owned Nord Stream 2 suffered a gas leak and it has now been followed by a drop of pressure on Nord Stream 1, with German officials reportedly believing that the pipelines have been attacked. https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-nord-stream-2-pipeline-28088792 Authorities in Germany are trying to establish what caused a sudden drop in pressure in the defunct Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, with a spokesperson for its operator saying it could have been a leak. The pipeline has been one of the flashpoints in an escalating energy war between Europe and Moscow since Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February that has pummelled western economies and sent gas prices soaring. Nord Stream 2's operator said pressure in the undersea pipeline dropped from 105 to 7 bar overnight. The Russian-owned pipeline, which was intended to double the volume of gas flowing from Vyborg, Russia, under the Baltic Sea to Germany, had just been completed and filled with 300m cubic metres of gas when the German chancellor, Olaf Scholz, cancelled it shortly before Russia invaded Ukraine. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/26/nord-stream-2-pipeline-pressure-collapses-mysteriously-overnight |
|
|
Any chance they just turned it off and then say it was sabotage?
|
|
Russia has been known to manipulate undersea cables with their submarines. It wouldn’t surprise me if they scuttled a pipeline.
|
|
Well, there you go.
Anyone wanting to gain knowledge on the global energy environment we are currently living in should search out “Doomberg” and give him a listen. |
|
|
The whole pipeline, all 700 miles and 45 inches in diameter of it, drained from 105 bar to 7 bar? Overnight?!
That's a helluva leak. |
|
Quoted: Russia has been known to manipulate undersea cables with their submarines. It wouldn’t surprise me if they scuttled a pipeline. View Quote Russia doing that would serve them no purpose. If they didn’t want to send material through all they have to do is say “no” and they get their way AND have a bargaining tool. Damaging the pipe only removes their bargaining power. |
|
Quoted: Russia doing that would serve them no purpose. If they didn’t want to send material through all they have to do is say “no” and they get their way AND have a bargaining tool. Damaging the pipe only removes their bargaining power. View Quote Russia's making plenty of bank on selling discount oil to the Chinese, India, even the Saudi's are buying it and selling it to other countries. Green Europe is not a cash cow for petroleum a lot of people are trying to make them out to be. Besides, they were warned. They can freeze. There's even a German word for that: schadenfreude |
|
It's definitely leaking. Danish F16s overflew the area (near the Danish island of Bornholm) and reportedly saw "bubbling" on the surface.
|
|
Claiming the pipe is "damaged" allows them to restrict flow to prevent Germany & Europe from filling stockpiles to draw against come winter.
Gee Guys - we'd LOVE to send you more gas to stockpile, but the danged pipeline has a leak somewhere ... Sorry! Bigger_Hammer |
|
Quoted: Any chance they just turned it off and then say it was sabotage? View Quote William Shatner Commercial Outtakes |
|
Quoted: Russia's making plenty of bank on selling discount oil to the Chinese, India, even the Saudi's are buying it and selling it to other countries. Green Europe is not a cash cow for petroleum a lot of people are trying to make them out to be. Besides, they were warned. They can freeze. There's even a German word for that: schadenfreude View Quote Making bank on oil sales while the rest of their economy implodes and all the young and educated males flee the country. Russia is utterly fucked long term and only has themselves to blame. |
|
Quoted: Claiming the pipe is "damaged" allows them to restrict flow to prevent Germany & Europe from filling stockpiles to draw against come winter. Gee Guys - we'd LOVE to send you more gas to stockpile, but the danged pipeline has a leak somewhere ... Sorry! Bigger_Hammer View Quote This pipeline was not in use, and Russia halted sales to Europe overall weeks ago. |
|
Quoted: Claiming the pipe is "damaged" allows them to restrict flow to prevent Germany & Europe from filling stockpiles to draw against come winter. Gee Guys - we'd LOVE to send you more gas to stockpile, but the danged pipeline has a leak somewhere ... Sorry! View Quote ... Except for the fact that Germany already said "no thanks" to Nord Stream 2 right before the Russian invasion of Ukraine ... so NO gas has been flowing through it to Germany. |
|
I thought Nordstream 2 was never fully completed?
ETA completed in Sept 21 but never entered service |
|
anyone in Europe who thinks they are getting a drop of energy from Russia this winter are the biggest fools in a sea of fools.
|
|
The now defunct Russian-owned Nord Stream 2 suffered a gas leak and it has now been followed by a drop of pressure on Nord Stream 1, with German officials reportedly believing that the pipelines have been attacked.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-nord-stream-2-pipeline-28088792 |
|
|
Quoted: Making bank on oil sales while the rest of their economy implodes and all the young and educated males flee the country. Russia is utterly fucked long term and only has themselves to blame. View Quote These aren't the sand people, they actually have a functioning oil economy, so much so, Europe's going bananas because they threw their lot in with Putin. Member? Chancellor Merkel was a STASI agent, aka the East German KGB. Russia has a ton of people. European "countries" are like American states. View this as Mississippi begging for the world's money while the rest of the US goes after them. Without their welfare handouts, Ukraine its corrupt government would be sunk. Then realize, that even after all these billions of dollars, military support, the Ukrainians are barely hanging on. Without our tax money or weapons we're giving them (while ignoring China), Zelisnksy would be hopping trains to Switzerland with suitcases of Biden Bucks. |
|
I told you guys way back in the earlier pages of the Ukraine invasion thread that the NORD 2 was being used. It's just that Germany has been calling it certification testing to get around the EU ban.
I don't think 7 bar poses a big issue, but if it drops lower, sea water could leak in and damage the pipe. So I believe this is the russians cutting off Germany's under the table gas supply with just enough pressure to prevent pressure from the ocean to damage the pipeline. |
|
What is the fine print on the insurance policy and loan covenants?
|
|
Quoted: Claiming the pipe is "damaged" allows them to restrict flow to prevent Germany & Europe from filling stockpiles to draw against come winter. Gee Guys - we'd LOVE to send you more gas to stockpile, but the danged pipeline has a leak somewhere ... Sorry! Quoted: ... Except for the fact that Germany already said "no thanks" to Nord Stream 2 right before the Russian invasion of Ukraine ... so NO gas has been flowing through it to Germany. View Quote You are 100% Correct Sir!! Nord Stream 2 was completed but not used to pump natural gas to Germany because of the Ukraine Invasion (Oops!! - "Special Russian Military Operation to De-Nazi-fy Ukraine" ) But if the Russians claimed that the new pipe were "damaged" then the Russians could try to use that as an excuse to NOT pump in extra natural gas now for the Europeans to try to stockpile now in Europe - before "Winter Comes". If there is a time for maximum leverage, The Depths of Winter, is when I'd expect the Russians to try for maximum disruption in cutting the Natural Gas supply in Europe - Especially as the Ukrainians push back the Russians with the assistance of Modern NATO weapons. My Advice to Europeans? Now would be the Time to be stocking up on extra sweaters, mittens & sleeping bags and to chop & dry some firewood pronto... Bigger_Hammer |
|
|
|
Quoted: You are 100% Correct Sir!! Nord Stream 2 was completed but not used to pump natural gas to Germany because of the Ukraine Invasion (Oops!! - "Special Military Operation to De-Nazi-fy Ukraine" ) But if the Russians claimed that the new pipe were "damaged" then the Russians could try to use that as an excuse to NOT pump in extra natural gas now for the Europeans to stockpile in Europe before "Winter Comes". If there is a time for maximum leverage, The Depths of winter, is when I'd expect the Russians to try for maximum disruption in cutting the Natural Gas supply in Europe - Especially as the Ukrainians push back the Russians with the assistance of Modern NATO weapons. My Advice to Europeans? Now would be the Time to be stocking up on extra sweaters, mittens & sleeping bags and to chop & dry some firewood pronto... Bigger_Hammer View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Claiming the pipe is "damaged" allows them to restrict flow to prevent Germany & Europe from filling stockpiles to draw against come winter. Gee Guys - we'd LOVE to send you more gas to stockpile, but the danged pipeline has a leak somewhere ... Sorry! Quoted: ... Except for the fact that Germany already said "no thanks" to Nord Stream 2 right before the Russian invasion of Ukraine ... so NO gas has been flowing through it to Germany. You are 100% Correct Sir!! Nord Stream 2 was completed but not used to pump natural gas to Germany because of the Ukraine Invasion (Oops!! - "Special Military Operation to De-Nazi-fy Ukraine" ) But if the Russians claimed that the new pipe were "damaged" then the Russians could try to use that as an excuse to NOT pump in extra natural gas now for the Europeans to stockpile in Europe before "Winter Comes". If there is a time for maximum leverage, The Depths of winter, is when I'd expect the Russians to try for maximum disruption in cutting the Natural Gas supply in Europe - Especially as the Ukrainians push back the Russians with the assistance of Modern NATO weapons. My Advice to Europeans? Now would be the Time to be stocking up on extra sweaters, mittens & sleeping bags and to chop & dry some firewood pronto... Bigger_Hammer lol |
|
|
Quoted: Just like WE shouldn’t have put all our eggs in China’s basket Bunch of dumb F politicians…all over the place! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Should’ve never put all of their eggs in Putin’s basket Just like WE shouldn’t have put all our eggs in China’s basket Bunch of dumb F politicians…all over the place! When they do it because they are bribed by a foreign country they aren't stupid, they're traitors. Stupid is thinking that it was a mistake while knowing they were and still are in china's pocket. |
|
|
Quoted: So if you dropped some flares in the plume, what would happen View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: It's definitely leaking. Danish F16s overflew the area (near the Danish island of Bornholm) and reportedly saw "bubbling" on the surface. So if you dropped some flares in the plume, what would happen I don't k ow, but I would.like to see it! |
|
This is terrible for Europe, we should send Ukraine a few more billion dollars.
|
|
The Russians were credibly accused of attacking an underwater telecom cable that ran to Svalbard earlier this year I think...maybe late last year.
Even though the dedicated minisub losharik (their version of NR-1) caught fire and burned badly in 2019 they seem to still have the ability to attack underwater infrastructure. I know very little about sub sea pipelines but I would think it's not something you can just use explosives on and hope to maintain any predictable pressure. If they did attack it they probably had to work at it. I don't understand though, why attack a supposedly unused pipeline that they can just turn off? |
|
Quoted: The Russians were credibly accused of attacking an underwater telecom cable that ran to Svalbard earlier this year I think...maybe late last year. Even though the dedicated minisub losharik (their version of NR-1) caught fire and burned badly in 2019 they seem to still have the ability to attack underwater infrastructure. I know very little about sub sea pipelines but I would think it's not something you can just use explosives on and hope to maintain any predictable pressure. If they did attack it they probably had to work at it. I don't understand though, why attack a supposedly unused pipeline that they can just turn off? View Quote I don’t see why it would have to be the Russians who sabotaged it. In fact, there are many others who gain from this. Cui bono? -Ukraine. Cutting potential Russian revenue sources would be job #1. - US - reduce options for Eur dependency on Rus. - Any oil producing Eur country, or Eur country wanting to steer a non-Russian energy dependency path. - Any major non-Russian oil producer. - Many I am not even thinking of. I personally wanted to sabotage the pipeline back in March as a preventative (being anti-Putin). It’s narrow to think it’s a Russian job. It’s also entirely possible it’s an accident. |
|
I find this a bit…perplexing.
Doesn’t make sense for Russia to attack their own pipeline; they can just shut it off (which it sounds like they had more or less done anyway?). Destroying it only takes both leverage and potential much-needed revenue away from them. A genuine accident / unforeseen consequence of shutting it down (or whatever) would seem to be a possibility, but the Germans seem pretty confident it was an intentional attack. And other actors with something to gain (Ukraine, OPEC nations, USA) probably either don’t have the undersea capability to sabotage the line, or are strong enough European allies to probably not want to do this. |
|
Quoted: I told you guys way back in the earlier pages of the Ukraine invasion thread that the NORD 2 was being used. It's just that Germany has been calling it certification testing to get around the EU ban. I don't think 7 bar poses a big issue, but if it drops lower, sea water could leak in and damage the pipe. So I believe this is the russians cutting off Germany's under the table gas supply with just enough pressure to prevent pressure from the ocean to damage the pipeline. View Quote |
|
Quoted: I find this a bit…perplexing. Doesn’t make sense for Russia to attack their own pipeline; they can just shut it off (which it sounds like they had more or less done anyway?). Destroying it only takes both leverage and potential much-needed revenue away from them. A genuine accident / unforeseen consequence of shutting it down (or whatever) would seem to be a possibility, but the Germans seem pretty confident it was an intentional attack. And other actors with something to gain (Ukraine, OPEC nations, USA) probably either don’t have the undersea capability to sabotage the line, or are strong enough European allies to probably not want to do this. View Quote And that’s the really perplexing thing. Those who might do it, can’t. Those which can do it, wouldn’t. Very, very weird. |
|
|
|
Quoted: This pipeline was not in use, and Russia halted sales to Europe overall weeks ago. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Claiming the pipe is "damaged" allows them to restrict flow to prevent Germany & Europe from filling stockpiles to draw against come winter. Gee Guys - we'd LOVE to send you more gas to stockpile, but the danged pipeline has a leak somewhere ... Sorry! Bigger_Hammer This pipeline was not in use, and Russia halted sales to Europe overall weeks ago. Yes, facts are hard for some folks |
|
Quoted: I told you guys way back in the earlier pages of the Ukraine invasion thread that the NORD 2 was being used. It's just that Germany has been calling it certification testing to get around the EU ban. I don't think 7 bar poses a big issue, but if it drops lower, sea water could leak in and damage the pipe. So I believe this is the russians cutting off Germany's under the table gas supply with just enough pressure to prevent pressure from the ocean to damage the pipeline. View Quote Are the Russians also bubbling gas up from the sea floor to make it look like a leak? |
|
|
|
Quoted: Russia's making plenty of bank on selling discount oil to the Chinese, India, even the Saudi's are buying it and selling it to other countries. Green Europe is not a cash cow for petroleum a lot of people are trying to make them out to be. Besides, they were warned. They can freeze. There's even a German word for that: schadenfreude View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Russia doing that would serve them no purpose. If they didn’t want to send material through all they have to do is say “no” and they get their way AND have a bargaining tool. Damaging the pipe only removes their bargaining power. Russia's making plenty of bank on selling discount oil to the Chinese, India, even the Saudi's are buying it and selling it to other countries. Green Europe is not a cash cow for petroleum a lot of people are trying to make them out to be. Besides, they were warned. They can freeze. There's even a German word for that: schadenfreude Europe being green forces the Europeans to buy Russian gas. The leak definitely harms Russia. |
|
Damage reported in three strings of the Nord Stream pipelines.
Nord Stream AG said it was impossible to estimate when the gas network system's working capability would be restored. "The destruction that occurred on the same day simultaneously on three strings of the offshore gas pipelines of the Nord Stream system is unprecedented. It is not yet possible to estimate the timing of the restoration of the gas transport infrastructure," it said in comments to reporters. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-nord-stream-operator-says-083712944.html |
|
Quoted: Damage reported in three strings of the Nord Stream pipelines. Nord Stream AG said it was impossible to estimate when the gas network system's working capability would be restored. "The destruction that occurred on the same day simultaneously on three strings of the offshore gas pipelines of the Nord Stream system is unprecedented. It is not yet possible to estimate the timing of the restoration of the gas transport infrastructure," it said in comments to reporters. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-nord-stream-operator-says-083712944.html View Quote Where did Hunter last drop anchor? How much does the big guy get for undersea trench-less pipe relining? Kharn |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.