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Posted: 5/7/2017 2:13:39 PM EDT
I need some help figuring this out and it is not a one time thing. It is something I will have to do on a regular basis.

I am taking some geological readings on a fixed grid that is two dimensional. In feet it starts at 0,0 goes to 0,15, 0,30, 0,45.......then 15,0, 15,15, 15,30, 15,45 ...... then 30,0, 30,15, 30,30, 30,45 .... and so on. These grids are oriented in all sorts of directions and are never just north south or east west.

I have surveyed state plane coordinates for every one of these points on the grid, an X and Y value in feet.

The resulting data I get fills the entire grid, that is I have data points at virtually all possible X,Y's in the grid like 12,27 for example but I have no real world coordinates for these points.

How can I convert something within the grid like the 12,27 to the state plane coordinates?

I end up with an excel file with thousands of data points that all have their coordinates listed based on (0,0) as the starting point and I need to make them the real world state plane coordinates.

It is not as simple as just adding the coordinates for the 0,0 position to them all as the grid is not oriented NS there is a rotation to it.
Link Posted: 5/7/2017 2:34:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Using survey-grade GPS receivers would be a great way to translate and rotate that project datum into the state plane coordinate system.  Two receivers with two 30-minute static occupations.  Set one receiver on a monument with known state plane coordinates (it can be miles away from project) and another on a project control point, collect data for 30 minutes, and then move the receiver from the known point to a separate project control point and collect 30 minutes of data.  Post-processing will assign state plane coordinates to the two project control points for which GPS data was collected.  All of the other project points can be translated and rotated into state plane coordinates.
Link Posted: 5/7/2017 2:42:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Using survey-grade GPS receivers would be a great way to translate and rotate that project datum into the state plane coordinate system.  Two receivers with two 30-minute static occupations.  Set one receiver on a monument with known state plane coordinates (it can be miles away from project) and another on a project control point, collect data for 30 minutes, and then move the receiver from the known point to a separate project control point and collect 30 minutes of data.  Post-processing will assign state plane coordinates to the two project control points for which GPS data was collected.  All of the other project points can be translated and rotated into state plane coordinates.
View Quote
We are using RTK but that is not the problem.

The problem is the computer that collects the geological readings has no way to input the state plane coordinates. It just assumes where you start is 0,0. I have surveyed state plane coordinates for every location where we place the instruments but my problem is the data it spits out fills the entire grid with thousands of points based on starting at (0,0) which are not surveyed nor is anything actually on the ground there.
Link Posted: 5/7/2017 3:11:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Attached is a diagram that might help explain it better.

The blue dots are where we place our instruments and I have surveyed state plane coordinates for them. I also know their local coordinates based on starting at (0,0) which are shown on the diagram.

I get data readings at the locations shown with the black dots and the computer spits them out with the data value and the local coordinate based on starting at (0,0).

I need to translate the local coordinates for the data points to state plane coordinates.

As you can see it is not oriented with state plane north. Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/7/2017 3:20:54 PM EDT
[#4]
There has to be some sort of mathematical relationship between the two.

If I know (0,0) is (1193272.82,10761143.84) in state plane and I also know this for all the other blue dots there should be some mathematical formula to take any coordinate based on (0,0) and translate it to state plane?

I am pretty sure I remember doing stuff like this back in college 20 years ago but I can't remember how.
Link Posted: 5/8/2017 1:17:01 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 5/8/2017 9:15:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Thanks. I really appreciate the time and effort you spent to work that out. I am currently in the field doing this work right now but will try and work through this tonight.

I think I can follow it. Believe it or not In have never taken Trig in my whole life. When I went to college it was before they had all those placement tests and I started out in calculus and the farthest I had gone before that was algebra in high school. Anyway they started talking about sine and cosine and I had no idea what they were talking about so I did a lot of reading and basically taught myself what I needed to know to get through. I actually ended up getting a composite math and science minor but that was 20 years ago and I don't use it much at all and have forgot so much.
Link Posted: 5/8/2017 5:34:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 5/8/2017 8:25:51 PM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 5/8/2017 10:15:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Chapman is on the correct path. For distances that are relatively short from the datum point you should be fine with linear conversions.

You could cut the math requirements down significantly if you had a 2nd reference point, somewhere within the grid, in addition to the reference point at (0,0). From there, you could do linear interpolation rather than messing with the trig. Mathematically both methods are correct, however the 2 reference method will likely result in better practical measurements in the field. I think determining the bearing of the major grid with enough precision to be more difficult than getting the absolute position of a 2nd reference point.

If your grid happens to cover a larger distance, or you need more accuracy than just a linear conversion, then you need to compensate for the fact that your distance between your origin and any grid point is not really a straight line but the distance over the surface of a sphere. The math to deal with that is much more complicated and is likely to trigger a mild seizure being you haven't taken trig in the past.

Vincenty solutions of geodesics on the ellipsoid
Link Posted: 5/8/2017 11:15:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 5/9/2017 8:14:48 PM EDT
[#11]
And this is why we have MGRS...

Metric for the win.
Link Posted: 5/21/2017 5:46:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
And this is why we have MGRS...

Metric for the win.
View Quote
Metric is no better at rotation than any other system.

I would start by moving them to polar and then rotate.

It makes rotations fer easier.
Link Posted: 11/12/2018 4:53:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There has to be some sort of mathematical relationship between the two.

If I know (0,0) is (1193272.82,10761143.84) in state plane and I also know this for all the other blue dots there should be some mathematical formula to take any coordinate based on (0,0) and translate it to state plane?

I am pretty sure I remember doing stuff like this back in college 20 years ago but I can't remember how.
View Quote
Yep, this is what you do.  Just add the x and y offset of your points to the state plane coordinates.

So if you know (0,0) is (1193272.82,10761143.84) and you want the coordinates of your (13,45), you'd just

(1193272.82+13,10761143.84+45) = (1193285.82,10761188.84)

There might be some more fiddly bits to all of it, but assuming your coordinates and the state plane coordinates are in the same units it's just simple addition.  If not in same units then you need to convert your units to the SP units before adding.

Here's a primer on what you need to do:
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/336k/Newtonhtml/node153.html
ETA, now I see your problem, I assumed that your X direction and the SP x direction were the same.  You'll have to do some trig for the conversion.
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