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Posted: 6/1/2020 6:00:09 PM EDT
This guy just spent a long time looking for this plane, had lots redone on it, engine, panel, paint, et cetera, was out flying around the UK and his baggage door flew off and gets caught on the horizontal stabilizer. Excitement starts after the 3:45 mark.
The theory is that the retention pin wasn't in the emergency baggage door release, which allowed the handle to deploy and the door to open in flight. https://mooneyspace.com/topic/34477-emergency-landing-baggage-door-blow-off-mid-flight-model-k/  Mayday | Emergency Forced Landing Light AC - 3:48 R.Door Rips Off & Jams Fight Controls 
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Posted: 6/1/2020 6:06:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: The theory is that the retention pin wasn't in the emergency baggage door release, which allowed the handle to deploy and the door to open in flight. So I guess he'll remember to check that next time? |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 6:11:12 PM EDT
[#2]
First flight after all the work I wonder.
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Posted: 6/1/2020 6:15:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So I guess he'll remember to check that next time? I never knew the pin existed and immediately verified its presence after seeing this. I don't see the outside handle coming open in flight. It's swept reward and would have airflow at all times on it. Seems like a design flaw and there should be an overcenter mechanism on the latch and not just spring tension. |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 7:08:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never knew the pin existed and immediately verified its presence after seeing this. I don't see the outside handle coming open in flight. It's swept reward and would have airflow at all times on it. Seems like a design flaw and there should be an overcenter mechanism on the latch and not just spring tension. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So I guess he'll remember to check that next time? I never knew the pin existed and immediately verified its presence after seeing this. I don't see the outside handle coming open in flight. It's swept reward and would have airflow at all times on it. Seems like a design flaw and there should be an overcenter mechanism on the latch and not just spring tension. Ah, so not a normal checklist item. Well that sucks. |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 7:35:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, so not a normal checklist item. Well that sucks. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So I guess he'll remember to check that next time? I never knew the pin existed and immediately verified its presence after seeing this. I don't see the outside handle coming open in flight. It's swept reward and would have airflow at all times on it. Seems like a design flaw and there should be an overcenter mechanism on the latch and not just spring tension. Ah, so not a normal checklist item. Well that sucks. Would've been for the mechanic thst last worked on it. That's an A&P screw-up (or whatever they're called in the UK) |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 7:57:13 PM EDT
[#6]
nice work and what a cool girlfriend who kept her cool. 
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Posted: 6/1/2020 8:18:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Before I retired from Kodiak Fire Department I went on an ambulance call for an aircraft down off the end of the runway ,in the water.As I recall it was a Piper Cherokee that lost a baggage compartment door on takeoff.10 dead two survivors.Literally bodies stacked like cord wood.
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Posted: 6/1/2020 8:25:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Before I retired from Kodiak Fire Department I went on an ambulance call for an aircraft down off the end of the runway ,in the water.As I recall it was a Piper Cherokee that lost a baggage compartment door on takeoff.10 dead two survivors.Literally bodies stacked like cord wood. Wasn't a Cherokee then. Or if it was then the baggage door wasn't their biggest problem. |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 8:44:42 PM EDT
[#9]
Ok, I wasn't there and I wasn't PIC but, seriously? Engine good. No apparent control problems. And he beats the shit out of his aircraft and risks an off field landing for a departed door? I suppose he might of thought his horizontal stabilized was going to depart also, but I don't think that would have been my first thought. But I fly with no doors all the time so perhaps I'm a bit cavalier about them...
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Posted: 6/1/2020 8:49:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't a Cherokee then. Or if it was then the baggage door wasn't their biggest problem. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Before I retired from Kodiak Fire Department I went on an ambulance call for an aircraft down off the end of the runway ,in the water.As I recall it was a Piper Cherokee that lost a baggage compartment door on takeoff.10 dead two survivors.Literally bodies stacked like cord wood. Wasn't a Cherokee then. Or if it was then the baggage door wasn't their biggest problem. Insufficient lift! |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 8:54:54 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I wasn't there and I wasn't PIC but, seriously? Engine good. No apparent control problems. And he beats the shit out of his aircraft and risks an off field landing for a departed door? I suppose he might of thought his horizontal stabilized was going to depart also, but I don't think that would have been my first thought. But I fly with no doors all the time so perhaps I'm a bit cavalier about them... I am not a pilot but that was my thought. Hind sight being 20/20 though. Three seconds to communicate a mayday. Ok, I might have thought to get vectored to the nearest airfield with a good engine and full controls. That wedged/impaled hatch on the stab might have felt really bad though. He didn’t seem to be turning like he was worried about the stab failing. But what do I know. |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 9:13:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I wasn't there and I wasn't PIC but, seriously? Engine good. No apparent control problems. And he beats the shit out of his aircraft and risks an off field landing for a departed door? I suppose he might of thought his horizontal stabilized was going to depart also, but I don't think that would have been my first thought. But I fly with no doors all the time so perhaps I'm a bit cavalier about them... I won't second guess the guys decision to get it down right away, mostly because I don't know what the yoke felt like. It certainly looked like he had control of the aircraft. Mostly, I was wondering why he didn't put the gear down earlier. He came in hotter than hell. I thought he was trying to get a buzz job in before flying home. He finally put the gear down at what looked to be less than 100'agl then held it off, eating up precious landing space, trying to bleed off speed. Then he didn't seem to use the brakes or use a soft field landing technique. Lotta wtf in that one. But any landing you can walk away from!.. |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 9:32:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't a Cherokee then. Or if it was then the baggage door wasn't their biggest problem. Navaho ,I stand corrected |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 10:24:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Friend of mine had the nose baggage door in his Geronimo Apache pop open right after rotation.
He slammed it back on the runway and stopped about 20' from the REIL of a 6000' runway. He said it felt like someone was trying to flip him on his back and he really had to push to get it down. I had the cabin door pop open on my Aztec and it felt like I had lost the right engine. |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 10:46:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I wasn't there and I wasn't PIC but, seriously? Engine good. No apparent control problems. And he beats the shit out of his aircraft and risks an off field landing for a departed door? I suppose he might of thought his horizontal stabilized was going to depart also, but I don't think that would have been my first thought. But I fly with no doors all the time so perhaps I'm a bit cavalier about them... A guy rented a Cessna 172 right after I did flight training in it with an instructor, over Arizona desert. The rental place always topped off fuel tanks before each flight. So he flew it for about 20 minutes and noticed the fuel levels were showing empty. The engine was running just fine. He was at 6,000 AGL and he wasn't too far from the airport. Guess what? He did an emergency landing on a rough desert gravel road. Lots of damages to the plane. He wasn't injured. |
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Posted: 6/2/2020 9:16:49 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I wasn't there and I wasn't PIC but, seriously? Engine good. No apparent control problems. And he beats the shit out of his aircraft and risks an off field landing for a departed door? I suppose he might of thought his horizontal stabilized was going to depart also, but I don't think that would have been my first thought. But I fly with no doors all the time so perhaps I'm a bit cavalier about them... Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I wasn't there and I wasn't PIC but, seriously? Engine good. No apparent control problems. And he beats the shit out of his aircraft and risks an off field landing for a departed door? I suppose he might of thought his horizontal stabilized was going to depart also, but I don't think that would have been my first thought. But I fly with no doors all the time so perhaps I'm a bit cavalier about them... More from the pilot involved (from the thread): Went to see AC, unfortunately the damage is a little more extensive than I first imagined (without taking off the tail) you can see that the airframe has twisted to the right all the way up the tail and the skin is deformed down the side of the fuselage half way up towards the baggage door on the right. Really hard to see in the photos. The impact from the door has also pushed the horizontal stabiliser back a good 10cm compared to the left side. You can see the 1cm gap thats been created at the joint where it connects to the empennage. Finally, and most worryingly the debris & stuffing from the hatch door was blocking the elevator fork from moving freely hence why it didn’t just fly away, as a consequence the flight controls are all strained & warped from the opposing force of using the trim to control the AC on the glide down, the metal linkage has also been bent slightly showing the strain that was on the AC. - more info to follow regarding the emergency latch & pin position. The additional photos are the skid marks through the field. Turns out Membury used to be an old RAF base used during the battle of Briton, I have draw out our flight path on the old map in green and red. My wife compared the incident to being hit by 88mm flak cannon. A toast to ‘The Few’.  So, he lost elevator authority and was flying it with trim. And, well, technically, I guess where he landed was used as an airfield at one time. |
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Posted: 6/2/2020 9:33:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More from the pilot involved (from the thread): So, he lost elevator authority and was flying it with trim. And, well, technically, I guess where he landed was used as an airfield at one time. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ok, I wasn't there and I wasn't PIC but, seriously? Engine good. No apparent control problems. And he beats the shit out of his aircraft and risks an off field landing for a departed door? I suppose he might of thought his horizontal stabilized was going to depart also, but I don't think that would have been my first thought. But I fly with no doors all the time so perhaps I'm a bit cavalier about them... More from the pilot involved (from the thread): Went to see AC, unfortunately the damage is a little more extensive than I first imagined (without taking off the tail) you can see that the airframe has twisted to the right all the way up the tail and the skin is deformed down the side of the fuselage half way up towards the baggage door on the right. Really hard to see in the photos. The impact from the door has also pushed the horizontal stabiliser back a good 10cm compared to the left side. You can see the 1cm gap thats been created at the joint where it connects to the empennage. Finally, and most worryingly the debris & stuffing from the hatch door was blocking the elevator fork from moving freely hence why it didn’t just fly away, as a consequence the flight controls are all strained & warped from the opposing force of using the trim to control the AC on the glide down, the metal linkage has also been bent slightly showing the strain that was on the AC. - more info to follow regarding the emergency latch & pin position. The additional photos are the skid marks through the field. Turns out Membury used to be an old RAF base used during the battle of Briton, I have draw out our flight path on the old map in green and red. My wife compared the incident to being hit by 88mm flak cannon. A toast to ‘The Few’. https://mooneyspace.com/uploads/monthly_2020_06/B889ABB9-0450-409B-8A39-520620D1D814.jpeg.0c604cc20e05b1108f65366d08f2676e.jpeg So, he lost elevator authority and was flying it with trim. And, well, technically, I guess where he landed was used as an airfield at one time. Ha, I wondered if that was one of those grass field aerodromes until I saw him crossing dirt roads across it. It was, albeit defunct. I was guessing that gear suffered some serious abuse. Beats not being on your gear. Twisted frame a total write off? |
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Posted: 6/2/2020 9:42:45 AM EDT
[#18]
I've landed a Mooney on a far, far worse field than that and the gear held.
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Posted: 6/2/2020 10:18:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, he lost elevator authority and was flying it with trim. And, well, technically, I guess where he landed was used as an airfield at one time. |
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Posted: 6/2/2020 3:08:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [armchair quarterback]If it was controllable with trim I would not have rushed it to the ground like that, it probably would have made me much more deliberate and cautious about everything.[/armchair quarterback] I consider any loss or degradation of a primary flight control an emergency that means get on the ground NOW, as I can't determine how much worse it's gonna get. The pilot of that Mooney was cool and collected about it and did everything right- about as deliberate as you can be. He may have landed fast because the plane was more controllable and holding the gear as long as he did was, in my opinion, a wise thing to do in order to eliminate as much parasite drag until the last possible moment. |
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Posted: 6/2/2020 3:27:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I consider any loss or degradation of a primary flight control an emergency that means get on the ground NOW, as I can't determine how much worse it's gonna get. The pilot of that Mooney was cool and collected about it and did everything right- about as deliberate as you can be. He may have landed fast because the plane was more controllable and holding the gear as long as he did was, in my opinion, a wise thing to do in order to eliminate as much parasite drag until the last possible moment. I would kind of agree. You don't know how long you'll have any control authority, something shifts, binds up and now your completely fuxored. I'd want to be on the ground ASAP. |
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Posted: 7/6/2020 2:57:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I wasn't there and I wasn't PIC but, seriously? Engine good. No apparent control problems. And he beats the shit out of his aircraft and risks an off field landing for a departed door? I suppose he might of thought his horizontal stabilized was going to depart also, but I don't think that would have been my first thought. But I fly with no doors all the time so perhaps I'm a bit cavalier about them... Its a Mooney. The entire tail section is attached to the fuselage by two 1/4" bolts and a 6" piece of piano hinge. Very likely he could have lost the entire tail from that door dragging out at the tip of the horiz stab. When I went to the Mooney factory service school, the old timers showed us a trick to check the brackets those bolts pass through, to see if they were cracked. They said that more than 50% of the brackets they checked were cracked, but you rarely saw it just doing a visual inspection, as is called out in the inspection guide. They also showed numerous photos of a crashed Mooney that lost its tail section when the pilot exceeded Vne. All aboard died. This, and, IMO, many other design flaws, are why I never fly in Mooneys. I've scraped up a fair number of wrecked aircraft over the past 30 years, and do my best to avoid being in one. |
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Posted: 7/6/2020 3:35:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't a Cherokee then. Or if it was then the baggage door wasn't their biggest problem. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Before I retired from Kodiak Fire Department I went on an ambulance call for an aircraft down off the end of the runway ,in the water.As I recall it was a Piper Cherokee that lost a baggage compartment door on takeoff.10 dead two survivors.Literally bodies stacked like cord wood. Wasn't a Cherokee then. Or if it was then the baggage door wasn't their biggest problem. If it's the Navajo crash you're thinking of I flew with a guy who knew the PIC. He was his friend's dad growing up. |
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Posted: 7/6/2020 4:16:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its a Mooney. The entire tail section is attached to the fuselage by two 1/4" bolts and a 6" piece of piano hinge. Very likely he could have lost the entire tail from that door dragging out at the tip of the horiz stab. When I went to the Mooney factory service school, the old timers showed us a trick to check the brackets those bolts pass through, to see if they were cracked. They said that more than 50% of the brackets they checked were cracked, but you rarely saw it just doing a visual inspection, as is called out in the inspection guide. They also showed numerous photos of a crashed Mooney that lost its tail section when the pilot exceeded Vne. All aboard died. This, and, IMO, many other design flaws, are why I never fly in Mooneys. I've scraped up a fair number of wrecked aircraft over the past 30 years, and do my best to avoid being in one. @GAU5-A-A Mind advising me on how you check those brackets? |
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