When people showing up late means you end up doing the late people’s shit, then yes, it is your business.

Pretty much this. Especially in an information-related job, the computer skills advantage alone is huge.

It's a generational thing, but not because of work ethic, it's because boomers and their parents come from a time with an hourly wage mindset, punchin that clock. Nowadays, it's the productivity of your time, not how much time you put in.

For example, I'm a millennial engineer. On my hall, there is a boomer engineer 1 year from retirement that does the exact same job as me, with the exact same responsibilities. Yes, he's been doing it longer and has more experience, but when he and I are given work to do, we have the exact same expectations.

I routinely come in late, take 2 hour lunches, fuck around talking with vendors for hours, surf the internet, and leave early to beat traffic. He comes in early, stays way late, works his entire work day through without stopping, and loves to come in on Saturdays to do more work.

Partly that is accepted in our line of work because of it's nature (on call 24/7 oilfield work - the line between personal and work life is nonexistent, I also routinely stay up all night working at home on weekends/holiday).

But mostly, it's accepted because I get 2x more accomplished in my 20 hours of actual work in a week than he does in 60 hours of grinding. I'm literally 6x as efficient. He's a hunt & peck single finger typer who refuses to use a 2nd monitor and prints out every thing to mark it up by hand and sort into giant file folders in his office. He calculates everything manually rather than investing the time once to build a spreadsheet to automate routine calculations. In the spreadsheets he does use, he will routinely type out the same information in 3 cells in 3 different formats instead of just linking cells and using the Excel formatting.

Never once has any boss said anything about the way I work, because I get more done. I batch similar tasks, work only when I have enough time to get into "flow" or "the zone" or whatever your favorite term is, build spreadsheets to automate tasks, and generally work smarter, not longer.

It's almost as if salaried information-based workers are paid based on a volume of work output, not hours spent in the office - AMAZING

Late? Damn near every millennial that's filtered through our place doesn't get the five day week thing. Every week sometimes two days, no call in even half the time. Vehicle problems, baby momma drama, court dates, slept two hours over, just wasn't feeling it I guess.

Showing up early is on time and showing up on time is late.

I would agree that the Boomers generally believe Effort = Productivity and Motion = Progress.  They love to brag about how hard they worked and how many hours they put in.  And when I show them how I implement automation, efficiencies, and processes to turn an 8-hour task into a 2-hour task with an increase in quality, they call me lazy.

I have no use for that mindset.

Probably just wants to get up out of their office/desk and stretch their legs, while at the same time relaying the information to you.

I am a Boomer. While I was working my key metric were: are we meeting or exceeding the needs of our coustomers and stakeholders, were you viewed as a valued member of the team, do you have a passion to accomplish the task, and are you viewed as technical expert in your field.  If you weren’t, then we stated down the path of coaching; if that failed we started down the path of finding you a job where you were happy and could be successful.

I really didn’t care about start or stop times.  I let the employees set their own schedule. All I cared about was that you had 40 hours on your time sheet at the end of the week. What was odd is the employees for the most part stuck to the 8:00 to 5:00, one hour lunch routine. I did have some who would occasionally work 4, 10s so they could have a three day weekend.

In 28 years as a manager I was never sued, never had a hostile work environment complaint, nor did I ever pay an unemployment claim. I had about the same or maybe slightly less of a turnover rate in my department then the other departments.  I did have significantly less drama then the other departments. Some employees liked my style and some didn’t. Senior management did recognize my department as a hit team when it came to handling problems; and we were often tasked with things beyond the scope of our department.  Some managers viewed us as sharks as we were assigned tasks in their respective fields.

I left the dealer recently and went to a Indie shop because of this.  Folks dont want to come to work, and when they do show up(25 min late) they fuck off most of the day on their phones.  Indie doesnt tolerate this and we share the same work ethic.

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Keep up the work and payments sweetheart.  Today is a glorious day.....Social Security Payment. I'll probably wander down to the gun store today and see what I can buy.  Thanks again for your diligence.

I'm late to this thread, I slept in.

Your probably a northeaster transplant with a pension. Claiming disability because your last year on you hurt your back....and just retired the 2nd time from that county job a few years ago....@ 57

Damn it.....im late giving you shit...
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Close but no cigar.  I have to wait to the end of the month for my FRS (Florida Retirement System) for more $'s.  Now get to work please.  

Got two snowflakes that cant be bothered to show up on time or stay awake. Our HR told us we cant write them up. Protected class.

You mean like every other young person throughout the ages?

I've always believed that if a person can be consistently 10 minutes late every day of the week, they also have the ability to be consistently on time. They don't want to. It's that simple. And they don't want to because they have no reason to.

I would say it depends on the industry too.

With my work there is always something else that can get done, so if you are there all day there is a solid chance there is something you can be doing all day.

If you are a high producer though it gets rewarded with more money, if you are a knuckle head that either slogs through his tasks, or can't self start, you are doomed to be dumb labor for all eternity.

So the boomers are the ones reaping all the benefit then, a good chunk of the silent generation too I guess.

I work , when i need to... and sit on my ass when i can

Exactly, I don't give a fuck if you do a barrel roll out of your moving car into a sprint up the driveway, if you have your boots tied and you are ready to start loading the truck at starting time, you are on time.

If you want to sit in your car for 20 minutes and wait for me to get my ass outside, you can do that too, I don't really care.

Just be ready to work when it's start time.

Early isn't on time, it's just someone that prefers to have a cushion, and there is nothing wrong at all with that.

Sounds like your HR are either cowards or from the same protected class.

I don't have a beef with Millenials but GS-14s are generally overpayed and under worked.

Normally these generation hate threads have a few boomers crying that this is all
a maoist plot to divide us by race, sex, age, etc. Guess they only show up in boomer hate threads ??

Old snowflakes that can dish, but can't take, I guess

OP must be like ... 40 or something.

Only if they ride Harleys with loud pipes on a treadmill in an HOA while ordering from Optics Planet.

I am technically a millennial but wear a watch and carry a 1911, so not standard. But when I got my last promotion they suggested I wasn't going to get more money. Fine, I get to set my schedule and work from home. I work a lot online and there is literally no reason for me to commute 2 hours to sit at a desk in a building that's not my house when I can do the same thing from my kitchen table. It saves me time and sanity, allows me to spend time with my young kids, and I get all my stuff done and more. when I have meetings or meet with people? sure, I'm early as shit and don't tolerate lateness in others. but if you're not in a front facing area and just need to get shit done? I could care less how you do it.

also not taking sick time/vacation is not a badge of honor. It's a waste of money and your life. I'm not the president of the world, nor am I a brain surgeon. grand scheme, I'm not super important in the world. but I am the world to my kids, and that's important to me.

The whole generational categorization thing is bullshit.  The people I work with often have the alleged traits of a different generation.

A lot of it is just age.

The 25-year old guy drags in late?  No shit, he was out til three trying ti get laid.

The 60-year old dude works slow?  No shit, he's 60.  He was dragging in late back in 77.

The term "Generation Jones" is sometimes used to describe those born roughly between 1954 and 1965. The term is typically used to refer to the later years of the baby boomer cohort and the early years of Generation X.

I fit right in the middle of this “Jones” gen.

But I’ll still flip my internet bird at all the boomer hate.

Get off the Arfcom, get your ass back to work and pump up that Social security.  
Meanwhile, I got fish to catch.

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Did you ever ask yourself WHY they were late?

Do they get their work done?

Do they have customer service responsibility (ie. some may call them at 7:59AM with a question?)

Does it matter?

I used to think that way, but honestly in this line of work is just doesn't matter if you are here at 7:30 or 8:30...  people get here when they get here, and if you have kids to drop off at school it kind of nice.

Just sayin.  And I am no millennial.

I show up near 8AM every day.  Today I was in about 10 minutes late because I moved snow before coming in.

I'm a programmer so being there at exactly 8AM doesn't really matter.

My work gets done so what does it matter gramps

See where I work and my fiancé works, most of the millennials are the first ones in and the last to leave. The older management doesn't bother strolling in until 10:00 and is normally gone by 3:00. There are exceptions though, the other group I used to work with had some millennials and boomers who never bothered showing up regularly, I quickly transferred out of that group.

I will say the laziest person in my new group is in her mid to late 40's, all she does all day is talk on the phone (all personal calls, heard her call and bitch about a company's coupon expiring once ), look up knitting patters, watch Netflix on her phone and gives everyone attitude when they ask her to do something. Management is protecting her and it is driving the rest of us nuts.

If you want to play that game then my employer shouldn't be able to contact me beyond my 8-5 work hours..

Gen X and that has always been retarded.

Early is early, on-time is on-time. After on-time is late.  It's fucking simple.

Exactly this. I could be on time every day. I just don't give a fuck.  It's silly.

I don't work for tight asses. Problem solved.

I'm a Boomer of sorts.  I was born in '64 but am probably more of a Gen X'r.  Not that any of that really matters that much.

I despise having to live my life according to a clock.  I changed jobs a year back and for the first time ever I have to punch a fucking time clock.  I hear that policy is due to the fact that one of my co-workers, a Gen X'r, was coming in late and leaving half way through the day.  Instead of dealing with the problem they just decided to collectively punish everyone.  And the workplace cheat a monster raise.  I work far fewer hours now that they keep track of it.  And I'm no longer compelled to answer the phone when I'm off the clock.  I hate that clock and everything it stands for.  Worst part is, I'm the guy who had to integrate it into the payroll system.  The decision maker who imposed the clock on us is a Millennial.

I get it why Millennials would hate punching a clock.  It's up to management to figure out how to measure their productivity against the traditional putting in the time model.  The burn will set in when the being to work on time crowd all retires.  I'm just a few years from it.  Once the mortgage is gone I'm going to adopt a much more relaxed lifestyle.  I'll probably find something that'll pay enough to cover my healthcare but not intrude too much on my precious time.  Once you hit a certain age and you start seeing friends die off time becomes a precious commodity.

There's so much of this at my workplace

I have the kind of job where I don't need to be at a desk in an office (insurance adjuster).  When I'm not in the field or driving I can handle tasks as they come in, regardless of where I am.  Ironically I was able to catch up on a TON of work during deer season because I can work from a phone in a treestand.  Yes, I realize that probably takes away from the unplugged experience that being in the woods is supposed to be, but honestly I still felt refreshed regardless AND I still got a day's work in while doing something I love.

Meanwhile, we have a crew of admin that answer phones, do database work, and other tasks which require them to be in the office during set hours.  They HATE the guys in my position.  We show up and leave whenever we feel like it, work from wherever, whenever, but they're tied to a cube.  Unfortunately that creates a lot of toxicity in the workplace, because its so obvious that different people have different rules and expectations.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the office folks still seem to either resent us, their position in life, or both.

I turn in comp time slips in 15 minute increments for any phone calls or text exchanges off the clock.  Didn't take long for the memo to go out to quit calling me with little problems when I'm off the clock.

Who is hated on Arfcom the most...…...Boomers or Millennials?

Tough question...……..

I hate my generation more.

Fuck that, I'd write them up anyway.  Nap time is near the top of my no-no list.

I fall asleep at work from time to time. I'm the boss though, so I don't care.

Have to do something while waiting for the concrete to do it's thing.

Same in my line of work, the phone answering & data entry types are usually less skilled, less educated, less specialized, less pay, less benefits, less everything.

It's almost 100% because they are have much less responsibility and pressure.

They only see me leaving early or going on hunts - they don't see the 6AM phone call from the CEO or missing Christmas dinner because I'm on the phone with government regulators and engineering firms - things they don't have to deal with. It's not all roses and rainbows

Big words from a man ashamed of his state!

Sounds like the problems is management...not the millennials.

I am an old millennial (85) and my gen X coworker is worthless.  Or maybe it’s not the year he was born but the person he is.

If I show up early I start my hourly rate at $99/hr as soon as I show up.

I dont expect my customer to do work for free for their customers and they dont expect me to do work for them for free as well.

This.  Their world is the 8-5 grind.  This past fall I got dog piled with west coast clients (I'm on the east coast), which means my "work day" extended from as early as 7am (for my east coasters) to as late as 9 or 10pm.  Taking red eye flights to and from CA to VA so that travel days didn't fuck my entire week.  I dared any one of those idiots to say something snoody to me about coming in late or leaving early or not coming in at all.

What it comes down to is this:

There are lazy/unproductive people and there are productive/focused people, age does not matter, mindset does.

I had problems with people being late at the last kitchen I ran and had to write several people up for it. Professional kitchens are time dependent and being late is unacceptable. In my industry, 10-15 minutes early is on time, on time is late. And yes, most those were Millennials who thought it was no big deal....until I had to,chew them out for not being ready and set on time for a rush because they were late.

In a different situation where it is more about getting the work done at a bit slower pace, maybe 10-15 minutes may not matter. YMMV

There is a reason why, BTW, a good chunk of the US never gets anywhere. They have ZERO motivation and never push themselves, yet, will complain when they can never get decent jobs, get passed over on raises/promotions.

I worked at a multinational engineering firm and the millennials and foreigners were the only ones getting shit done. The gen x'ers and boomers would dick around and talk about game of thrones and shit.

Now I'm at a small firm and every one has to pull their own weight or you get canned. We've had about four millennials quit because they couldn't hang. They weren't lazy, just couldn't handle the pressure.

We had an intern here at work a couple semesters ago who would show up late every day.   He gave some emotional excuse as to why that was just "feelz" b.s.   He also wanted $30 an hour when he interviewed because he said that's what he made working at Starbucks in California   That should have been a red flag right there, but I wasn't in charge of hiring.   I have no idea how this kid is going to make it in the real world when he can't even show up on time for work as an intern.

His commute 4 miles, mine 35 each way in traffic and I still make it on time.   He had no viable excuses, he just didn't "want" to come to work.

Spot on post!