For anyone that has ever considered making your own vanilla extract now is the time. Price on beans is down from the record highs seen in 2017-2019. They are so low the Madagascar government, in an effort to protect the farmers from financial collapse and to stop them from burning the vines to plant other crops (that would cause further market volatility), implemented a minimum price on all exported beans.

Bean prices peaked at $700/kg in 2018

Today you can find beans for under $300/kg...

While that isn't quite down to the $100/kg of 7 years ago, I feel that it is a reasonable price. And because vanilla extract only gets better with age there is no reason not to buy in bulk and make enough to last years. 10-12 year aged extracts sell for insane amounts of money. If the markets continue to go down you can always make more to carry you through the inevitable time when the markets come back up to record highs again.

Making extract is easy. Buy alcohol (I like Captain Morgan Silver Rum), pour out some alcohol, put beans in bottle, top off, then wait a year for best results. You can speed the process up by using grade A beans and splitting them along their length but after your first year there is no need to do this if you made enough extract the first year. Many say Grade B (extract grade) beans make the best extracts, it just takes more time to do it bc of the lower moisture content of the beans.

Edit: I found the a few Facebook groups on extract making and saw this handy calculator in one of them. You punch in the vanilla strength, and bottle size and it will tell you how much beans and how much alcohol (for the math challenged)
https://danieltalsky.com/vanilla/

My mom used to talk about drinking vanilla extract to get drunk when she was in the Marine Corps back in the day

There is a Facistbook group that you can order beans from. My last order was 10 oz at $10 an oz and $4 shipping. They have a nutmeg order going on now for $4 an oz. with $4 shipping. The next bean order is March 10th.

I started by putting 6-8 beans in a pint of good bourbon and let it sit for about 6 months.
When it gets low I add more beans/bourbon.
Been using the same bottle for about 10 years.

My wife makes VE, has for years.  Stopped due to the price the last couple years.

Where's a good place to buy the beans?

Thanks,

Excuse my vanilla extract ignorance but what is wrong with the stuff in the little bottles that cost around $3?  What are you guys using so much extract in/on?  A small bottle lasts me a long time.

Does it say pure vanilla extract? Vanilla flavor? Or imitation?

Pure vanilla extract from a store = the weakest possible vanilla extract that can legally be marked as such from the cheapest possible beans

Vanilla flavor = nearly pure vanillin extracted from other products that contain vanillin such as wood etc. Vanilla essence (the aromatic compounds) from vanilla beans is only about 30% vanillin, the other 70% is other aromatic compounds. Using flavor compromised of vanillin from other sources you're missing out on the other 70% that makes up real vanilla.

Imitation is synthetically produced vanillin, same as above (you're missing the other 70%) except it's also synthesized in an industrial setting.

If a small bottle lasts you a few years you probably don't use enough vanilla to justify making your own. But I use lots of it. I think many recipes are just so skimpy on it bc it's so expensive. When I have a vanilla milkshake I want to taste the vanilla! When I make baked goods I normally use double-fold (double-strength) extract and still add a bit of extra. Again, I want to smell the vanilla. What is the point if using something so expensive if you're going to use so little that you can't tell it's there?

That being said, in regards to cost, a 1 oz bottle of the cheap stuff is just over $4 at my local Walmart. I can take $250 worth of beans and make 2 gallons (256 oz) of double-fold extract then turn around and use all those beans to make another gallon of single-fold extract, essentially putting my cost/oz (when equivalent to single-fold) at $0.39/oz and I'm using better quality beans that are direct-sourced from the farmer.

My wife put up up a quart mason jar in 2014. It has stayed unmoved unnoticed until I saw this thread.
It is still viable?

Correction put up in 2011

It gets better with age so as long as it was sealed you're looking at some VERY fine & mellow vanilla!

She properly boiled bell jar and was stored correctly. Been sitting in the dark at back of pantry since.

Checked the seal by turning upside down over sink, seal intact. Looks to be about 15 beans inside. No idea about grade of beans.

Link?

+1

I got mine for $8/oz but had to buy a kilo to get that price. For smaller orders $10/oz is a good deal.

You forgot the beaver.

"A chemical compound used in vanilla flavouring and scents comes from the anal glands of beavers. Castoreum is a substance that is produced by a beaver's castor sac, which is found between the pelvis and the base of the tail. Beavers use this substance, which is usually brown and sticky, to mark their territory"

People that like true vanilla also likes the beaver.

My wife raises orchids and had some vanilla growing in her greenhouse at one time. Just didn’t produce enough beans for the amount of space it took up. Pretty cool though.

While castoreum has been used as an enhancer in vanilla flavorings before, it's exceedingly rare today. It's more likely to be found in perfumes...

I have typically made extracts using good vodka - Wouldn't using a stronger flavoured alcohol overpower or at least affect the extract quality?  

If using something else will yield more potent flavours I am interested in learning more.

I love vanilla. I’m going to subscribe to this and maybe make my own.

I'm not an extract expert, but yes, I believe using a stronger alcohol like bourbon etc can overpower the vanilla which can be counterproductive if your desired result is a simple vanilla extract. However, sometimes the desired result isn't just a vanilla extract, it's a complex flavor profile for a specific purpose. Using bourbon, sherry, etc can give other notes to the flavor profile.

That being said, that's a practice that's probably better left to somebody that has a better understanding of extracts and such. A beginner should just start with plain extract.

Vodka and white rum are the 2 most often used.

Once again, I'm not an expert. For a plain extract you want a flavorless alcohol. From that perspective vodka is the best. However, in doing my research on extract making, many reported that lower quality vodka left more of a bite even when the extract was well-aged. Thus, a higher end vodka is necessary to get a mellow extract. OTOH, white rum, being made from sugar and still having some sugar (sugar etc is permissible in pure vanilla extract), seems to actually mellow out and compliment the vanilla flavor better. So despite the fact that rum isn't totally flavorless, it's flavor goes well with vanilla and the beans will overpower the mild flavor easily. This allows for a low-middle quality white rum without risk of off flavors. Captain Morgan Silver is $21/handle and $10/5th at Walmart.

Lastly, vanilla, having originated in Mexico and Rum having originated in the Caribean, seem to be a more natural pairing, even if there is no physical reason for it, there is a psychological "feeling" of what is right.

But seriously, this is arfcom, why limit yourself to just 1? Get a 5th of vodka, rum, bourbon, etc and try them all!

favorite place to buy beans? I have been wanting to do this for a long time... sounds like now would be a good time.

My wife asked me to buy the cheapest vodka the last time she made VE.  I "sorta" listened and got her a mid-quality vodka.

Is there a preference or effect for high quality vs. cheapest alcohol?

Even if bean prices are coming down... vanilla in the store is stupid expensive.  Making your own makes a lot of sense.



Not really, other than you want less flavor from the alcohol, and more from the vanilla.  I'm not a vodka connoisseur, I can't say which has less flavor than another.

If you're making more than just a little bit, the easy way to split the beans is to buy a cheap scalpel.  Lots easier than a knife.

Been making it for 30 or so years. Every few years, I put a fifth of Stoli with beans in my wine cellar and date it. When we need more, I just grab the oldest bottle.
Makes excellent Christmas gifts for those unexpected friends who drop by. Mrs. puts it in small bottles and labels it.

I recently picked up a bottle of "pure vanilla extract" from Trader Joe's that I didn't realize until getting home contains no alcohol (it seems the major ingredient is glycerine based on the label).  To my uncultured pallate it tastes the same as other grocery store "pure" extracts based on alcohol.  I definitely know the imitation stuff tastes worse.  This thread makes.me.want to try and make my own.

Pretty sure that the imitation Vanilla extract is made from coal tar or wood pulp. So why not go with the good stuff while its affordable.

So how many beans in a 750 ml Silver Rum for double-fold?

I love vanilla. When I use it in a recipe I always let it run over the measuring spoon giving it extra.

One of my favorite ice cream is haagen dazs swiss vanilla almond because it has a strong vanilla taste.

I bought from Sava Trading Co. If you believe their "About" page, they are Americans that lived in the Sava region (bean growing region) of Madagascar for a few decades (maybe missionaries or something?) until the Madagascar government made them leave a few years ago (due to unrest in the region I think). So they started Sava trading co to help the people they know and love the best way they know how, direct sourcing beans and selling them here. If you sign up for their newsletter you get a code for 10% off (except it didn't automatically send me an email so I had to ask for the code). Cheapest place I could find Grade B beans.


My Shun paring knife did ok. I only split the beans in one bottle for a faster effect and as a comparison.

The rest I made by stuffing whole beans in the bottle. It's said to work just as well but with a longer time required. I can't help but open and smell mine...the extract made from split beans definitely smells stronger, but they've only been soaking for less than a week so the headstart from splitting them is very noticeable. I'm curious to see the difference in a year...



Are you sure it's not listed as flavor?

From my understanding the FDA controls the labeling of vanilla products and it cannot be labelled as vanilla extract unless it is made from 13.35 oz (or more) of beans per gallon of liquid comprised of water and alcohol that must be 70 proof or higher, plus optional addition of sugar, corn syrup, etc. AFAIK no other ingredients are allowed. Those using glycols and glycerin are to be labeled as flavor.

ETA, I just looked up the actual CFRs on vanilla. Propylene glycol & glycerin (as well as sugar, dextrose, & corn syrup) are the optional ingredients but my understanding of the code is that it must still be at least 35% ethyl alcohol. IANAL

ETA2, If it's labeled as extract it's most certainly made from real beans or it's a violation of FDA labeling.

And yes, you totally should make your own!



Double-fold in 750 ml bottle: pour out 1 cup (no more than 1/2 cup will fit back in so bean amount is calculated based on 750 ml - 1/2-cup to ensure you are equal to or exceeding double-fold strength), 4.45 oz (126 g) of beans.

There is a "Penn Herb" in Phia., PA.  They had a recipe for home brewed vanilla extract.  Pint of Christian Bros. brandy and 3 beans.  Shake bottle every so often.  I have used that brew for over 25 years.  If I feel the need for more beans I look them up on the internet and order them delivered or just drive over if I am in a hurry.

You are correct it's labeled "flavor" and I didn't even notice until now.

And that's why I decided to make my own. Vanilla is so confusing. It's so expensive that companies are trying to make products cheaper to be more competitive and they do it by creating something other than extract.

For so many years I lived in ignorance that the bottles you get out of the Caribbean when you go on a cruise etc were real vanilla straight from the source. As it turns out, because they don't have to follow the FDA labeling requirements, those sources are the most frequently adultered and mislabeled. They're often synthetics and can often contain enhancers that are not food safe. Yeah, screw that! Not giving that to my family.

So I set out to make my own but at that time beans were at record highs so I delayed a year or 2 while occasionally checking the markets and educating myself on beans, qualities, and extract making.

Small hint, you do NOT want to buy beans when at record highs. Theft of beans off the vine is rampant so farmers harvest early, leaving the vanilla weak and speculators that buy beans just to hold them and drive prices up don't process them in a timely manner or care for them well. Bean quality suffers.

Ok. I’m in. What are we talking about as far as how much beans and cost.

Say I want to make vanilla for myself but also some smaller jars to give at Christmas.

How many beans should I order and where can I do it?

I found both of these places online by googling "vanilla beans for sale". Their pricing is close and both offer free shipping. I bought a 3 pack of ten grade B beans from Native Vanilla for $28.35 after getting a discount code for signing up on their email list.
Slo Food Group also sells a variety of saffron. I ordered 3 grams for $18 shipped free. That's a damn good price for saffron compared to grocery store prices.

https://www.slofoodgroup.com

https://nativevanilla.com

I do a full 1 liter vodka (35oz) to 1/4lb (about 25 beans 4-5").

I split the beans but don't cut them up since they're usually 5-6yo by the time I open one.
If you want them ready in a year, you can cut the beans into 1/2-1" pieces.

https://www.amazon.com/ANTALAXIXI-Madagascar-Vanilla-Beans/dp/B07WSM12R9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Sava+Trading+Co.&qid=1615049024&sr=8-1

What is the definition of "record highs"  Right now, the best price I see is about $1/stick (see Amazon link above).  Normal, High or Low?

Thanks,

That depends.

1 kg of beans (~$300) will make about 3 gallons of single-fold extract.

If you're on a budget 1/2 lb will make just under 3 quarts.

Amazon is full of shady sellers, I'm not sure I trust them.


Record highs is just what it is. As stated above, 2018/2019 saw prices peak at $700/kg, they're now around $300/kg. 2014 it was around $100/kg.

Retail non-bulk prices have enough markup that market volatility is easily absorbed by the distributors so "by the bean" prices will not fluctuate. Mostly that will be on the down-swings. By the bean prices are still at those highs. Buy bulk for the best savings.

What would be better, one large jug and then pour into small containers for gifts, or small single containers aged separately? I am thinking Christmas so doing it now would be 9 months of aging.

@ferretrodeo  group name?

Id do one large batch then pour in to smaller bottles after it is aged. That way it would be more consistent bottle to bottle.

I have a 1/2 lb plus 11 extra beans split and scraped soaking in a 1/2 gallon mason jar. I used two 750's of Kettle One

I just found this:
Vanilla splits
It works out to  around $7 per oz.

Edited to change pound to ounce. Sorry, my bad.

That is where I got my 1/2 lb beans from. I just did the regular beans not the splits. They shipped from PA.

Does a split still have the caviar in it? Much of the flavor is in the caviar. Thats a good price but I'm curious to know if that's actually good value (assuming they were split to harvest the caviar).

Splits occur naturally on the vine or during the curing process.

Splits are allowed to be sold as Grade B, I assumed they were something other than natural splits if they were being sold as a separate item vs sold as Grade B.

I emailed the Madagascar Vanilla Company for clarification. I asked if their splits were natural or if the inner seeds have been removed. I'll post their answer if/when I receive one.

Edited to add:
I got a speedy one word reply: "Natural"

Good to know for future reference. I've never ordered from them before. I've wondered what the ordering and customs process looks like for vanilla beans coming directly from Madagascar...

Are you our test case?

Lol! No, I ordered enough beans for one liter of extract from another supplier. That’ll last me for a long time.
Email them from their website, they’ll probably give you the lowdown on all that.

Care to share your source? I bought a couple pounds of beans last year, they're OK, but I wouldn't mind better.

People were over the moon with the bottles of extract we gave them for Christmas....

sorry. Been away for a few days

The facebook group is called

vanilla bean co-op

I think you can also go to indrivanilla.com and order but I am not sure. I'm a member of their fb group so I go through that.

There is an active order going on right now for papua new guinea v. planifolia that will close around March 24th. The cost is $10 per oz and depending on how much you order it is $4 shipping. They just finished an order for whole nutmeg and I think they are looking at cinnamon for a future buy.


ETA: I just got in 10 oz of madagascar grade A beans and have them sitting in a 1/2 gallon mason jar with New Amsterdam vodka. I started the jar on 8Mar21 and since that is my daughters birthday I decided to make that a "mother jar" and will give that to her when she moves out. That means it will be sitting for about 4 years.

Just ordered 30 beans from Native Vanilla. 10% discount and free shipping, after tax it was $30.19. Going to grab a liter of white rum and then pack it up till December. Thanks guys!