OST..
Hello Kitties

Subscribed! I’ve always hated beer and wine. I began drinking whiskey and now prefer a good scotch. With my tastes evolving I’m liking more wines and beers. Once my son is born my wife and I will start trying new bottles.

My favorite wines so far are Cabs.

Hell yeah, I like wine. Subscribed.

Great thread, thanks for starting it!  Great tips on how to taste wines and what to look for.

I never used to like dry reds until my father told me to start looking for the different flavors - plum, licorice, heavy berries, etc.  Once I stated doing that, I really started to enjoy them.  Lately, I've been on a kick for a nice, deep, oaked red, and also a buttery oaked chardonnay.

My wife and I really starred getting into wine when we just started going to different wineries for tastings.  It's really cool when you are able to talk to the people there (many times it's the owners), and hear the history of the place, how they started, what grapes are estate grown, etc.

One thing we've been doing lately with white wines, is to try the same wine both chilled and warm.  Some of them, it's really incredible how much the flavor changes with temperature.   So keep an open mind while tasting, and don't be afraid to try something different!

I am a fan of the licorice taste in wines as well, and one of my favorite types of wine for that is Douro.  One of the best things about it is, you don't have to spend a ton of money to get a really good wine.  One of my favorites is QUINTA DAS CARVALHAS RESERVA DOURO, and it's a sub $20 bottle of wine down here.

Hello, all.
I had forgotten this forum exists.

I retired, and rejoined the wine world after 3 decades.
Love drinking it, love learning about it.

I like wine, have had bottles from the high end of the list..and low end of the list,,,gallon, jugs, etc etc

professionally, I will tell you i am convinced a pretty/stylish/unique label sells more wine to 99% of the wine buyers V reputation, taste, Food and Wine or Gourmet magazine recommendations

prove me wrong
Chef
and former VP of food and beverage who's educated in wines and really never '"got it" it tastes good or tastes like old socks..choose your poison

I once had to fire a matre'd hotel for buying 20 cases of some special hottest of the hot, ya gots to have it on your wine list wine, tasted like
the southern end of a north bound mule..it had been poorly handled and turned...I was able to salvage it by doing a 90% reduction, yes, nearly a paste, sweetening it and creating a dessert with poached pears and also creating a special demi glace and used it on a tenderloin, lamb and veal chop dish around it and its Rep and sold it out in 60 days and the fools, i mean Wine Snobs payed dearly for my skills..

YEAH ME...

The wine?

I'm just following along and here to learn.

Disclaimer:  I enjoy a decent bottle, but do have a personal wine category called "hot dog wine."

Okay, my hot dog wines.

Overall, I try to keep the costs down.  My Sunday dinners are family get-togethers, drinks (outside in good weather) then food at the big kitchen table, and have typically been in the 10-14 people range, only 3 of them children.  When some of the younger adults were, um, younger, they could be quite thirsty.  So when we found ourselves down in Sante Fe, the nearest Trader Joes location, I'd be piling cases of Charles Shaw into the Suburban. As people have matured, the number of bottles killed in an evening have gone down, allowing me to bump up the quality.  Still, I am always happy to peruse the sale wines to see what I can see.

So, the food.  In summer I like to cook outside, to keep the kitchen heat down.  The dogs are always grilled, usually Hebrew National.  I have a range of toppings, from grilled anaheim peppers (try that) to the usual chopped onions, kraut, dill spears, tomato, sometimes everything for a Chicago dog, including the celery salt.  The sides are usually cold salads: potato, macaroni, green, baked beans, some kind of cucumber salad (either with onions and vinegar or with sour cream and paprika).  That kind of stuff.

I'm pretty happy with a pinot noir for that meal.

The proper wine for a weiner is a Gruner Veltliner.  You can get a drinkable Gruner like Wachau for $10 and a good one like a Prager for $50

You’re alright in my book.

I think hot dog wine is more just bottom of the totem pole for wine. Where good wines are a USDA Prime Ribeye

I’d add that the first part of tasting it is to smell it.  You don't need to swish a just poured tasting portion. Just inhale through your nose as you bring the glass to your lips and continue as it contacts your palate.

Beaujolais (not nouveau or or villages so much, but cru) is another wine I think you might find to go great with summer grilling fare besides beef, if you like Pinot. Beaujolais is part of the Rhone technically, but just south of Burgundy and made much more in the style of a Burgundy pinot. Mostly Gamay with some Pinot and Chardonnay.

They can be terrific values in good years, and have been outperforming for some time now. One of my perennial favorites is Clos de la Roilette Fleurie. There's 5 or 6 others I buy regularly. If you try one and like it I will be happy to suggest more?

ETA: This is a super handy tool I've used for years to find wines I am looking for. It has saved cost me a fortune.

Wine-Searcher

THANK you for starting this thread, Kitties!  I love your enthusiasm. Wine lovers always lead with the simple but bold "I love wine".

A hobby topic on a hobby forum seems a natural. I once participated on wine forums and miss those discussions. I hope this takes off.

I'm only a hobbyist, but I've been lucky to be around good wine my whole life. Parents were French/German and loved wine, it was shared with the kids. I started my own cellar (it was SO basic) some time after I got my own place and over the course of my life (60 now). I've been fortunate and built a nice cellar, and have enjoyed an unbelievable number of really good wines in that time. Kissed a lot of frogs too.

I have truly been every kind of wine lover. All the stereotypes. From frugal to ostentatious, Parker Point chasing to Anti Flavor Wine Elite. Obnoxious Napa tourist and winemaker groupie. lol. It's all been a riot, but I am far from done learning or experiencing new wines. I've made a lot of rich friendships with industry people and other wine lovers alike, and shared many great bottles. I always like hearing about other peoples experiences and thoughts about wine. I also have some amazing experiences to share for anyone with interest.

Being retired, I don't chase trophy wines or difficult to find wines any more. Or cellar wines that need 20 more years.

I'm much more interested in wines like the Fleurie I mentioned above. Cru Beaujolais has an amazing long history and pedigree. It tastes of the unique "place" (terroir) and is made every year to exacting standards whose only real variable is the weather that year. Centuries of history, and $20. The world is full of wines like this. Malbec was a mere blending grape (Sorry Cahors, but you're the exception that proves the rule) and one of the 5 noble varietals allowed in Bordeaux blends. Someone took it to Argentina, and the world was given a Malbec in a new expression, and completely enjoyable as just Malbec (Sorry again, Cahors, but you hurt my teeth).

Apologies in advance, but I'll probably be a frequent flyer here if that is ok. I'll probably have a lot of questions just because I like the minutiae about wines. All THINGS wine. And yeah, I love wine too.

So, that Riesling. Do you remember what it was? What sweetness level?  The '90 vintage was sooooooo cheap and amazeballs. '01 was the stellar vintage that really started goosing the prices, and about the youngest I still have in the cellar. When I was only 14 years old, I got to go to the Rhine, Mosel. Just the memory of those wines almost brings tears to my eyes, so... pure.

Hell if I remember it was in 1986 and I can't remember dinner last night..

Here's my grilled anaheim "recipe," Kitties:

Cut the tops off, then split the peppers lengthwise and remove the seeds.
Put them on the grill over high heat, skin side down.
Char/blister the skin.

You can remove the skins once they're off the grill, or not.  I've done both depending on how lazy I was feeling.
I take the skin off by scraping with a spoon.
You can also thrown them into a plastic bag when they come off the grill, and that makes the skins easier to take off if you let them sit a bit.

I cook them before I put the meat on.  They take up a lot of space.

Keep/remove skins runs about 50/50.  I don't mind the skins.  Nobody's ever complained if I leave them on, come to think of it.

Anaheims don't have a strong flavor; I'm not really sure how to characterize them though they definitely have a flavor much, much nicer than a bell.  I grow my own, and some years they're completely bland on the heat scale; some years they have some mild heat, according to the folks who don't like "spicy."  Keep in mind I live in Colorado, where peppers grow like crazy and I grow a variety.  Aside from the sweet fryers, anaheims are the least hot in my garden crop.

It doesn't affect my choice of wine at all.  They're pretty much a staple at those meals as they're very popular.  If my crop's not in, I buy them at the store.  Don't want a riot.

I was given a spectacular education in wine by a previous boss. Someone that personally owned 12k bottles of the top 3% of wines available. Also at one time supposedly had the largest private Sauterne collection in the US. 8k bottles but made the switch to Pinot and sold off about 2/3ds.

I was given the opportunity to apply the verbal and written knowledge with actually drinking some of the finest wines I never could have afforded on my own.

I consumed an untold number of very expensive wines over those many years working for that guy.

He enjoyed fruit forward type wines for the most part although he would mix it up on occasion in an effort to teach me the different nuances.

In the end. After consuming probably well in excess of $150k in fine wine and being close to a start up vineyard and Wine operation. A number of hi end tastings.etc..

What I really learned is that I don’t have the palette for it !
I just don’t get all the fine taste nuances that make the journey repeatably interesting.

I can tell if it’s corked, too cold or not all that sophisticated to begin with but that’s about it.

It was an interesting ride though. Enjoy yourselves !

Oh lawd, I'm relatively new to any serious interest in Beaujolais myself. That said, you may never have to drink a village level wine again with that tool I supplied.
Can I talk about that first?  I'll come back to BoJo.

Great wine at unbelievable prices can be had, and should be our goal. Loving wine has to start with a lovable wine. All we need is a strategy.

Almost all of my wine is purchased out of state and shipped to me for a number of great reasons. Michigan tends to be expensive for any given wine and we mostly get plonk. CA, WA, OR, NY, NJ, FL and TX residents have it good and those are the states I most often purchase from. Shipping expense is often less than local sales tax and the big wine stores out of state get great selection, and great prices. Wine-Searcher is your friend here. You really want to think in 1 case quantities, and while there are breaks for buying 12 of any one wine, it isn't huge and retailers are delighted to make up a mixed case from your online order as well. 12 different bottles? No problem.

Ratings and reviewers. Here is a minefield, often scorned but how is someone who knows little, to learn? Reviewers range from honest to shills. A lot like wine shop employees. There is wine to be sold. Key is probably to figure out how the reviewer is paid. The Wine Advocate (Robert Parker's mag), Jancis Robinson, and Antonio Galloni are just a few of the independent wine critics that get their money from selling their wine reviews. Trustworthy for sure, but do they have the same palate as you? Finding the one that most closely DOES, can be a HUGE advantage. DOING THIS is going to get you labeled a point chaser, a mindless follower and all sorts of other criticisms. Who. Cares.  This can shave YEARS and $$$ from your learning curve. But all reviewers not only have their own biases, they also have their own specialties. NOBODY covers it all 100%. So knowing where your palate aligns with which critic for what region takes time, but you're getting old whether you like it or not so start now.

Wine rags like the Wine Enthusiast can have some excellent articles. They accept a LOT of money in advertising from the industry, and are BIASED because of it. Take their reviews with a grain of salt, but again, there are reviewers there who you can come to trust once you understand the bias. Then there are the reviews of God Knows Who. Joe Consumer, a clerk at the store, some random internet stranger .. You might get lucky.

Alright. So wine is expensive. Wine publications are expensive. If you want to really learn, and waste as little money on plonk as possible, I recommend subscribing to one. Read the articles, the minutiae, letters to the editor if they have that. You will read little things that you will not remember, but then you will read those again at some point. It all adds up. The Wine Advocate is a fairly dry, review only publication but is excellent, has several reviewers and they pretty much cover the world but are best (imho) for California and Bordeaux as well as being reliable everywhere else. Antonio is best for Italy, Jancis is great for many European wines also, and Alan Meadows is best for Burgundy. I love white Burgundies (Chardonnay) much more than CA Chardonnays, but I mostly stay away from the red (Pinot) because it can be uber expensive and hard to get the good stuff (very small production), and although it can be the source of the highest highs in wine, it can also be the most soul (and wallet) crushing disappointment. No need to buy ALL these reviews (or any!), but knowing WHO reviews WHAT best, can really help with the "shelf talker" reviews that most retailers will quote both online and on the shelf.

VINTAGE MATTERS!  While the absolute best predictor of a quality wine is producer and vineyard, the quality disparity between a good vintage, and a poor one, can be HUGE. Another score for publications. Knowing which regions are best in what years SHOULD dictate your buying, and thus your education. Concentrate on the wines on the market that are best in class for the vintages available. Let me make an analogy. You might decide you want strawberries today, but you get to market and darned if they aren't almost white and unripe. Ya going to buy those anyway? NO! Hell no. But those blueberries look GREAT. Hello. You cannot "see" a good vintage, you need help here. "Cherry picking" the best producers from the best vintages sounds unfair. And it is I guess, but it's YOUR money and the difference between that or the opposite (bad producers from bad vintages) is vast and will determine your wine experience.

Danger. The use of publications and reviews, points, and knowing and ONLY buying the best producers (for the $$, as that also matters) and best vintages of those, are often perceived AND labeled as SNOBBERY. They are NOT. That is often a label that merchants and tradespeople love to use to shame and quiet informed consumers, to sell their plonk.

Now, all that said, these things can be VERY useful for learning and improving your prince to frog ratio, but your goal should be to learn what YOU like. What YOU think. And becoming independent of the reviews and scores although they are still an important tool of mine to know what regions are producing their best in what vintages. By now, I have my favorite producers for most and you will find your own, too.

Alright, so BoJo. This is what I understand about it, but I am not an expert by far. Like much of French wine, qualitatively and in diminishing quality, you have the Cru wines (and those can be quality stratified ie within Bordeaux), the Superiore wines, and the village wines. In BoJo, like most of Burgundy, the Cru are mostly hillside vine wines. There are 10 of these Cru. Within each, there can be many vineyards. Within each vineyard, there can be several producers. To make matters even MORE confusing, a producer may separate and bottle the grapes from a vineyard differently (blocks), producing several labels from the vineyard. Many producers own or lease parcels in more than one vineyard as well.

The Cru wines are often $15-$25 on wine-searcher. Not much more than you are paying locally for Village wines I am guessing. They are made much more artistically, and far less industrially (ie, wooden barrels vs. steel or concrete tanks). Heavier in weight, more age worthy and nuanced. My favorite Cru are Brouilly, Fleurie, Moulin-à-Vent and Morgon. Of the producers, some of my favorites are Coudert, Bellevue, and Burgaud. 2015 is supposed to be a STELLAR vintage, I have not tasted it yet.

So lets do this. Lets put 2015, and Burgaud into wine-searcher, USA for location of retail, and see what we get. Remember, vintage and producer are most of the battle. 2015 Burgaud

Well, this is a pretty small sampling. But at the high end for $30, Cote du Py is a known great. In this vintage, it is almost a sure bet despite there being no review. At the low end for $19, the wine IS reviewed if you click on the link. 93 points from the Wine Advocate is a darn good score, and the review sounds excellent. For $19, a solid chance at a super dooper excellent wine. A very low risk buy. The $29 James is merely a "plot selection" within the Cote du Py vineyard. See?  BUT, it might be interesting from an educational perspective to get both the CdP as well as the "James" CdP to see what the winemaker was striving for in separating the "James" plot from the rest.

How did I know 2015 was the vintage to look for? Google is your friend for much of this. "Hey Google, what is the best recent vintage of Cru Beaujolais". My favorite Cru and producers? Experience from mixed cases. 2015 is a great vintage for BoJo. Google will get you several articles of who top producers are or who has reviewed the 2015's so you can purchase those reviews. Start there, mix a case, take a chance or two, maybe throw in an identical wine from a lesser vintage to see the difference weather makes on ripeness for yourself, and keep track of your thoughts on the wines as you drink through them. For an area like BoJo, congrats. You are now one of the top experts on Bojo. Lol, not even kidding.

You'll have to put in a lot more work and money to attain that level of knowledge of Burgundy, Bordeaux, Champagne or Napa Valley as they are far bigger and more complicated, and the competition is much stiffer, but the methodology is the same. Research is the key to making sure your very precious wine dollars hit the bulls-eye as often as possible. It isn't just a saying, life really IS too short to drink bad wine, at least any longer than necessary.

Hahaha I don’t have a top or a bottom. I’m new at this remember

It's late, I'll read through this thread later.

@Kitties-with-Sigs

I'm a winemaker. Not a "hey I have enough money to build my own winery", or "I make wine at home thus I'm a winemaker". I have a Bachelor in Science from one of the best schools in the nation in Enology. I'm published in pHd projects, as well as trade magazines, industry webinars, industry educational conferences such as the ASEV. I've made 20+million gallons across 16 vintages, 8 states,  over 30 varietals, many price points, but most straight in distribution. Straight to distribution means you can't screw up. The wines must be flawless.

Anyways, I'm a technical fermentation rep, consulting winemaker, blah blah blah. I'm the guy behind much of the hard seltzer out there.

I'm not pretentious at all. I am, however, very deliberate and particular when it comes to proper terminology and correct communication that's based on sound practices and science, not romance and BS.

If I can help, I will. I'm not on arfcom very much anymore, so tag me if someone wants my opinion.

drink the wine you like, if you like sweet wine, more power to you.

cheers to the worlds oldest beverage

I’ll get in on this. Started to really get into wine two years ago. What online retailers do you all use? I use wine.com, first bottle, last bottle, wtso, and irongate.

Currently in Napa on vacation, just did tastings at spottswoode and hall

My favorite for the money right now is old Shiraz. Crazy to me that you can buy an awesome 20 year old bottle for less than $40.

Ugh. Looks like there’s some legislation being considered that might help you out. KY is one of the last holdouts it seems.

I've used wine.com as well, but I have also shopped at these places as well, and had no issues shipping to Florida.

Vivino: (affordable on up)

Vivino

Vinfolio:  (this is more hi-end, hard to find wine)

vinfolio

wineaccess: (affordable on up)

wine access

wineauctioneer:  (fun auction site to browse, and I've won anything from affordable to high end wine)

Auction