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Posted: 8/24/2020 3:50:11 PM EDT
[#1]
At the risk of being flamed for the rest of the thread ...
Keto is great for losing fat and keeping it off. It's terrible for building muscle bulk. Eating a diet that's more suited for building muscle doesn't mean you have to put the fat back on. |
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Posted: 8/24/2020 6:10:25 PM EDT
[#2]
Anything is possible with a calorie surplus and enough protein.
Keto would make it hard though, I did it trying to maintain and still couldn't eat enough. |
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Posted: 8/24/2020 6:22:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Speaking from experience, no to low carbs = low glycogen. Training will be hard and that will affect muscle growth despite your probable high protein intake.
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Posted: 8/24/2020 10:10:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At the risk of being flamed for the rest of the thread ... Keto is great for losing fat and keeping it off. It's terrible for building muscle bulk. Eating a diet that's more suited for building muscle doesn't mean you have to put the fat back on. I absolutely, 100% agree. I tried it, worked great for fat loss. But Keto and IF are no bueno for muscle building - not for us mere mortals anyhow. |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 5:26:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Can I gain with keto or should I go back to eating everything, then trim fat later? Those are not your only two choices |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 5:30:36 AM EDT
[#6]
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Posted: 8/25/2020 10:14:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those are not your only two choices Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can I gain with keto or should I go back to eating everything, then trim fat later? Those are not your only two choices This. I think @desertw0lf has experience with keto as a power lifter. In my opinion it’s hard to get the energy required for grinding workouts. You’d have to time a huge fatty meal before lifting. I never could and my lifting suffered but I abandoned keto after maybe 3 months. I was only doing it to support my wife and I’ll try anything that has her buying steak multiple times a week. If I were you, I’d look into carb timing. There are a few different philosophies so you can choose one that works for you. Your diet and programming really have to be dialed in if you’re trying to tightrope the edge of getting strong without gaining fat. What program are you following? |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 10:35:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Is it possible to an appreciable extent? Health-wise, this has not been a good year for me. Got ill twice, knee problems, shoulder problems, etc. A few weeks ago, I started keto just to shave an inch of my waist. I like to stay at 31" so I can carry comfortably in 32" pants. Ended up losing ten pounds, which brings me to my high school weight. Most of the strength is there, but I'm looking thinner than I want to. I'd like to regain 20lbs, but in my early forties gains seem to be a lot harder than they used to. Can I gain with keto or should I go back to eating everything, then trim fat later? There's a few big IFs that come down to gaining muscle on a ketogenic diet. 1. Level of training of the person. An untrained/undertrained individual (someone with less than 6-12 months of consistent training) can gain muscle. This is also known as noob gains. If you start training consistently from a starting point of zero, you can gain muscle regardless of your diet. A better diet will be more optimal, but going from zero stimulus to lifting weights will allow a person to gain muscle mass. Moving past an untrained/undertrained individual (someone in the beginner to advanced level lifter...1+years of consistent lifting) there's two factors to consider. 1. Calorie intake on the Ketogenic diet. You need to be in a surplus. period. You cannot create something from nothing and if the ketogenic diet has you in a calorie deficit (i.e. you are losing weight), you muscle gains will be slim to none. 2. Protein intake. Ketogenic diet with it's focus on fats/lower carbs can create insufficient or sub-optimal protein intake. Protein can create an insulin response, thus knocking the individual out of Keto. Finally, carbs are good for lifters. More carbs equals better athletic performance. The tried and trued bulk/cut cycling, where the individual takes in a calorie surplus while lifting heavy for 6-8 months, then cuts (or cuts and maintains) for the remainder of the year is the most optimal method of gaining good weight. |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 4:22:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At the risk of being flamed for the rest of the thread ... Keto is great for losing fat and keeping it off. It's terrible for building muscle bulk. Eating a diet that's more suited for building muscle doesn't mean you have to put the fat back on. It can be hard to really bust ass on your workouts doing keto when you don't have carbs and you aren't a fat fuck. |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 6:30:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I think @desertw0lf has experience with keto as a power lifter. In my opinion it’s hard to get the energy required for grinding workouts. You’d have to time a huge fatty meal before lifting. I never could and my lifting suffered but I abandoned keto after maybe 3 months. I was only doing it to support my wife and I’ll try anything that has her buying steak multiple times a week. If I were you, I’d look into carb timing. There are a few different philosophies so you can choose one that works for you. Your diet and programming really have to be dialed in if you’re trying to tightrope the edge of getting strong without gaining fat. What program are you following? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can I gain with keto or should I go back to eating everything, then trim fat later? Those are not your only two choices This. I think @desertw0lf has experience with keto as a power lifter. In my opinion it’s hard to get the energy required for grinding workouts. You’d have to time a huge fatty meal before lifting. I never could and my lifting suffered but I abandoned keto after maybe 3 months. I was only doing it to support my wife and I’ll try anything that has her buying steak multiple times a week. If I were you, I’d look into carb timing. There are a few different philosophies so you can choose one that works for you. Your diet and programming really have to be dialed in if you’re trying to tightrope the edge of getting strong without gaining fat. What program are you following? Well, the dirty secret behind keto is that you *can* intake carbs 30-60min before a workout without totally tanking your week overall *DEPENDING ON THE INTENSITY OF YOUR ROUTINE*. My training sessions last 90min-3hrs. I put in 40g of carbs 30-60 pre workout and this does temporarily interrupt ketosis but doesn't have any negative impact long term. That said, I promote cyclical keto to my athletes who have a hard time with this, and it may be a better option for some. I am ISSA certified and lost my first 300# on keto, which I specialized in. Squat 700, Deadlift 710, Bench 605 single ply - YMMV. Hard truth - keto sucks if you're trying to get strong, but it's not only possible, it's pretty easy You have to be dedicated to fully embracing the suck, though. ETA: I also eat between 6500 and 10kcal per day depending on where I'm at in training, upcoming meet, etc. You MUST increase caloric intake on keto to gain strength at some point. |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 8:11:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Thank you, gentlemen.
@frayedknot, I'm following the SS program. |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 10:09:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, the dirty secret behind keto is that you *can* intake carbs 30-60min before a workout without totally tanking your week overall *DEPENDING ON THE INTENSITY OF YOUR ROUTINE*. My training sessions last 90min-3hrs. I put in 40g of carbs 30-60 pre workout and this does temporarily interrupt ketosis but doesn't have any negative impact long term. That said, I promote cyclical keto to my athletes who have a hard time with this, and it may be a better option for some. I am ISSA certified and lost my first 300# on keto, which I specialized in. Squat 700, Deadlift 710, Bench 605 single ply - YMMV. Hard truth - keto sucks if you're trying to get strong, but it's not only possible, it's pretty easy You have to be dedicated to fully embracing the suck, though. ETA: I also eat between 6500 and 10kcal per day depending on where I'm at in training, upcoming meet, etc. You MUST increase caloric intake on keto to gain strength at some point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can I gain with keto or should I go back to eating everything, then trim fat later? Those are not your only two choices This. I think @desertw0lf has experience with keto as a power lifter. In my opinion it’s hard to get the energy required for grinding workouts. You’d have to time a huge fatty meal before lifting. I never could and my lifting suffered but I abandoned keto after maybe 3 months. I was only doing it to support my wife and I’ll try anything that has her buying steak multiple times a week. If I were you, I’d look into carb timing. There are a few different philosophies so you can choose one that works for you. Your diet and programming really have to be dialed in if you’re trying to tightrope the edge of getting strong without gaining fat. What program are you following? Well, the dirty secret behind keto is that you *can* intake carbs 30-60min before a workout without totally tanking your week overall *DEPENDING ON THE INTENSITY OF YOUR ROUTINE*. My training sessions last 90min-3hrs. I put in 40g of carbs 30-60 pre workout and this does temporarily interrupt ketosis but doesn't have any negative impact long term. That said, I promote cyclical keto to my athletes who have a hard time with this, and it may be a better option for some. I am ISSA certified and lost my first 300# on keto, which I specialized in. Squat 700, Deadlift 710, Bench 605 single ply - YMMV. Hard truth - keto sucks if you're trying to get strong, but it's not only possible, it's pretty easy You have to be dedicated to fully embracing the suck, though. ETA: I also eat between 6500 and 10kcal per day depending on where I'm at in training, upcoming meet, etc. You MUST increase caloric intake on keto to gain strength at some point. I can’t remember who it was but some of the carb timing stuff I’ve read did suggest that carbs are almost “invisible” when taken around intense exercise. But I’m not smart enough to know the details. I assume it’s because you immediately use them. Is that something that you’ve found is heavily dependent on the individual as far as how many carbs you can take based on BW, program, lifting experience, etc? Seems like lots of variables will affect it. The OP sounds scrawny (  ) so I’m not sure full keto is worth the effort. Dial in a carb cycle and get stronger. |
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Posted: 8/25/2020 10:16:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you, gentlemen. @frayedknot, I'm following the SS program. I’m assuming you are pretty lean if you have a 31” waist. SS is very difficult to get the most optimal results if you’re trying to not gain fat. You might want to run that until you plateau once or twice and transition to 5/3/1 instead of resetting. You don’t “have” to get fat to get strong. It’s just easier. I also don’t think you “need” keto to lose fat/stay lean. It’s just easier. Carbs right before and right after lifting seemed to be the best of both worlds for me. But I just got tired of all the diet/meal planning when I don’t care about abbbbzzz and I can maintain my BW without issue. |
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Posted: 8/26/2020 3:30:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m assuming you are pretty lean if you have a 31” waist. SS is very difficult to get the most optimal results if you’re trying to not gain fat. You might want to run that until you plateau once or twice and transition to 5/3/1 instead of resetting. You don’t “have” to get fat to get strong. It’s just easier. I also don’t think you “need” keto to lose fat/stay lean. It’s just easier. Carbs right before and right after lifting seemed to be the best of both worlds for me. But I just got tired of all the diet/meal planning when I don’t care about abbbbzzz and I can maintain my BW without issue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thank you, gentlemen. @frayedknot, I'm following the SS program. I’m assuming you are pretty lean if you have a 31” waist. SS is very difficult to get the most optimal results if you’re trying to not gain fat. You might want to run that until you plateau once or twice and transition to 5/3/1 instead of resetting. You don’t “have” to get fat to get strong. It’s just easier. I also don’t think you “need” keto to lose fat/stay lean. It’s just easier. Carbs right before and right after lifting seemed to be the best of both worlds for me. But I just got tired of all the diet/meal planning when I don’t care about abbbbzzz and I can maintain my BW without issue. Hey frayed, I have been keeping carbs extremely low except right before my daily lifting and right after, is this wat you mean by carb cycling, I noticed after about two weeks of this I get extremely exhausted and then I spend a weekend eating a good amount of carbs, after, I feel good again, which I figure is glycogen refueling. Then back to high protein, low carb, moderate fat |
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Posted: 8/26/2020 10:07:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can’t remember who it was but some of the carb timing stuff I’ve read did suggest that carbs are almost “invisible” when taken around intense exercise. But I’m not smart enough to know the details. I assume it’s because you immediately use them. Is that something that you’ve found is heavily dependent on the individual as far as how many carbs you can take based on BW, program, lifting experience, etc? Seems like lots of variables will affect it. The OP sounds scrawny ( ) so I’m not sure full keto is worth the effort. Dial in a carb cycle and get stronger. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can I gain with keto or should I go back to eating everything, then trim fat later? Those are not your only two choices This. I think @desertw0lf has experience with keto as a power lifter. In my opinion it’s hard to get the energy required for grinding workouts. You’d have to time a huge fatty meal before lifting. I never could and my lifting suffered but I abandoned keto after maybe 3 months. I was only doing it to support my wife and I’ll try anything that has her buying steak multiple times a week. If I were you, I’d look into carb timing. There are a few different philosophies so you can choose one that works for you. Your diet and programming really have to be dialed in if you’re trying to tightrope the edge of getting strong without gaining fat. What program are you following? Well, the dirty secret behind keto is that you *can* intake carbs 30-60min before a workout without totally tanking your week overall *DEPENDING ON THE INTENSITY OF YOUR ROUTINE*. My training sessions last 90min-3hrs. I put in 40g of carbs 30-60 pre workout and this does temporarily interrupt ketosis but doesn't have any negative impact long term. That said, I promote cyclical keto to my athletes who have a hard time with this, and it may be a better option for some. I am ISSA certified and lost my first 300# on keto, which I specialized in. Squat 700, Deadlift 710, Bench 605 single ply - YMMV. Hard truth - keto sucks if you're trying to get strong, but it's not only possible, it's pretty easy You have to be dedicated to fully embracing the suck, though. ETA: I also eat between 6500 and 10kcal per day depending on where I'm at in training, upcoming meet, etc. You MUST increase caloric intake on keto to gain strength at some point. I can’t remember who it was but some of the carb timing stuff I’ve read did suggest that carbs are almost “invisible” when taken around intense exercise. But I’m not smart enough to know the details. I assume it’s because you immediately use them. Is that something that you’ve found is heavily dependent on the individual as far as how many carbs you can take based on BW, program, lifting experience, etc? Seems like lots of variables will affect it. The OP sounds scrawny ( ) so I’m not sure full keto is worth the effort. Dial in a carb cycle and get stronger. I was able to measure the glucose uptake pretty accurately a couple years back. No functioning pancreas and a CGM showed that I would soak up 25g pretty easily during and right after a workout. If I didn't take in the carbs pre-workout I'd have hell to pay towards the end of the workout. The CGM gives a graph with data points every 5 min or so and you could see it rise and fall pretty consistently. I have no doubt a guy with desertwolf's muscle mass could soak up 50g. It's interesting that this happens even without the presence of insulin. The mechanism is pretty well understood by people smarter than me. I've read some medical papers on it but don't pretend to really understand all the jargon. |
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Posted: 8/26/2020 10:08:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By @BASE: I was able to measure the glucose uptake pretty accurately a couple years back. No functioning pancreas and a CGM showed that I would soak up 25g pretty easily during and right after a workout. If I didn't take in the carbs pre-workout I'd have hell to pay towards the end of the workout. The CGM gives a graph with data points every 5 min or so and you could see it rise and fall pretty consistently. I have no doubt a guy with desertwolf's muscle mass could soak up 50g. It's interesting that this happens even without the presence of insulin. The mechanism is pretty well understood by people smarter than me. I've read some medical papers on it but don't pretend to really understand all the jargon. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By @BASE: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can I gain with keto or should I go back to eating everything, then trim fat later? Those are not your only two choices This. I think @desertw0lf has experience with keto as a power lifter. In my opinion it’s hard to get the energy required for grinding workouts. You’d have to time a huge fatty meal before lifting. I never could and my lifting suffered but I abandoned keto after maybe 3 months. I was only doing it to support my wife and I’ll try anything that has her buying steak multiple times a week. If I were you, I’d look into carb timing. There are a few different philosophies so you can choose one that works for you. Your diet and programming really have to be dialed in if you’re trying to tightrope the edge of getting strong without gaining fat. What program are you following? Well, the dirty secret behind keto is that you *can* intake carbs 30-60min before a workout without totally tanking your week overall *DEPENDING ON THE INTENSITY OF YOUR ROUTINE*. My training sessions last 90min-3hrs. I put in 40g of carbs 30-60 pre workout and this does temporarily interrupt ketosis but doesn't have any negative impact long term. That said, I promote cyclical keto to my athletes who have a hard time with this, and it may be a better option for some. I am ISSA certified and lost my first 300# on keto, which I specialized in. Squat 700, Deadlift 710, Bench 605 single ply - YMMV. Hard truth - keto sucks if you're trying to get strong, but it's not only possible, it's pretty easy You have to be dedicated to fully embracing the suck, though. ETA: I also eat between 6500 and 10kcal per day depending on where I'm at in training, upcoming meet, etc. You MUST increase caloric intake on keto to gain strength at some point. I can’t remember who it was but some of the carb timing stuff I’ve read did suggest that carbs are almost “invisible” when taken around intense exercise. But I’m not smart enough to know the details. I assume it’s because you immediately use them. Is that something that you’ve found is heavily dependent on the individual as far as how many carbs you can take based on BW, program, lifting experience, etc? Seems like lots of variables will affect it. The OP sounds scrawny ( ) so I’m not sure full keto is worth the effort. Dial in a carb cycle and get stronger. I was able to measure the glucose uptake pretty accurately a couple years back. No functioning pancreas and a CGM showed that I would soak up 25g pretty easily during and right after a workout. If I didn't take in the carbs pre-workout I'd have hell to pay towards the end of the workout. The CGM gives a graph with data points every 5 min or so and you could see it rise and fall pretty consistently. I have no doubt a guy with desertwolf's muscle mass could soak up 50g. It's interesting that this happens even without the presence of insulin. The mechanism is pretty well understood by people smarter than me. I've read some medical papers on it but don't pretend to really understand all the jargon. No functioning pancreas, T1D? How does that affect your lifting or other physical activity? Amino acids/protein have both anti-catabolic and anabolic properties. As far as carb timing, the book says an hour before, some during, and some after is the best way to go. The source needs to be a mix of different carbs. The body can process different forms of carbohydrates at the same time at different rates through different metabolic pathways. Monosaccharides are processed the fastest, disaccharides slower, and complex slowest. As far as hypertrophy on keto, make sure you’re taking in enough protein and BCAAs/EAAs about an hour before and immediately after. The essential amino acids leucine, isoleucine, and valine produce the greatest anabolic and anti-catabolic effects. |
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Posted: 8/27/2020 8:40:14 AM EDT
[#17]
It's a long story but it was damaged pretty severely, so not really T1D. Acute necrotizing pancreatitis after what should have been a pretty minor abdominal surgery.
Not having any pancreas at all sucks bigly. If it was just a lack of insulin that would suck bad enough but that thing also makes the stuff that allows you to digest fats as well. Low carb, low fat diet? I got lucky and 2+ yrs later it has regained some function. I lost about 100lbs before I got out of the hospital and then for the first 6 months after that I ate through a tube and slammed insulin. Going hypo was more of an issue than the high BG once I started lifting. After I got off the tube I lived on protein powder for another 6 months I think. Between the pancreas and damaged liver I didn't have much in the way of glycogen stores so glucose powder was necessary when working out. Here's a pic of me at my "healthy" weight of 160 or so when I started lifting:  Gross but my surgeons were pretty adamant that was a healthy weight and I would die or something if gained anymore weight. Six months after ignoring that advice (back to being "obese"): 
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Posted: 8/27/2020 12:37:20 PM EDT
[#18]
You're a Monster Man! Good on ya for battling back from that and smashing those weights!
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Posted: 8/29/2020 10:32:29 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speaking from experience, no to low carbs = low glycogen. Training will be hard and that will affect muscle growth despite your probable high protein intake. While on keto, my lifts when down slightly and my energy was never the same it was eating carbs. You can gain well past your forties but you have to eat and rest. |
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Posted: 8/30/2020 12:51:27 AM EDT
[#20]
Muscle is protein and muscle is protein. So it's a false dilemma. If one wanted to gain muscle they would eat a diet geared towards gaining muscle.
Id compare it to the opposite of going on steroids. Steroids increase muscle protein synthesis. You can do very little and get bigger and stronger. You feel like goddamn cyborg. Keto is the opposite of that. You're chopping off your toes to see if you can run faster. |
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Posted: 8/31/2020 2:39:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At the risk of being flamed for the rest of the thread ... Keto is great for losing fat and keeping it off. It's terrible for building muscle bulk. Eating a diet that's more suited for building muscle doesn't mean you have to put the fat back on. Yes, Keto sucks for adding muscle. It's just too hard to eat enough cals. |
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Posted: 8/31/2020 2:40:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. I think @desertw0lf has experience with keto as a power lifter. In my opinion it’s hard to get the energy required for grinding workouts. You’d have to time a huge fatty meal before lifting. I never could and my lifting suffered but I abandoned keto after maybe 3 months. I was only doing it to support my wife and I’ll try anything that has her buying steak multiple times a week. If I were you, I’d look into carb timing. There are a few different philosophies so you can choose one that works for you. Your diet and programming really have to be dialed in if you’re trying to tightrope the edge of getting strong without gaining fat. What program are you following? I have infinite energy in keto. |
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Posted: 8/31/2020 6:40:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have infinite energy in keto. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This. I think @desertw0lf has experience with keto as a power lifter. In my opinion it’s hard to get the energy required for grinding workouts. You’d have to time a huge fatty meal before lifting. I never could and my lifting suffered but I abandoned keto after maybe 3 months. I was only doing it to support my wife and I’ll try anything that has her buying steak multiple times a week. If I were you, I’d look into carb timing. There are a few different philosophies so you can choose one that works for you. Your diet and programming really have to be dialed in if you’re trying to tightrope the edge of getting strong without gaining fat. What program are you following? I have infinite energy in keto. You are infinite energy. |
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Posted: 8/31/2020 6:52:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are infinite energy. Getting close. |
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Posted: 9/2/2020 7:18:17 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have infinite energy in keto. I have infinite energy on keto as well. The weights felt about 20lbs heavier for the first 6 months but I have moved past that now. Feeling great and have been keto for 1.5 years now. Went from around 220lb to 160lb bodyweight. Pulled 345 for 7 reps last week on deads. Not huge weight but I was happy. Closing in on 4 plates. |
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Posted: 9/2/2020 7:21:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have infinite energy on keto as well. The weights felt about 20lbs heavier for the first 6 months but I have moved past that now. Feeling great and have been keto for 1.5 years now. Went from around 220lb to 160lb bodyweight. Pulled 345 for 7 reps last week on deads. Not huge weight but I was happy. Closing in on 4 plates. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have infinite energy in keto. I have infinite energy on keto as well. The weights felt about 20lbs heavier for the first 6 months but I have moved past that now. Feeling great and have been keto for 1.5 years now. Went from around 220lb to 160lb bodyweight. Pulled 345 for 7 reps last week on deads. Not huge weight but I was happy. Closing in on 4 plates. Damn, that's a lot of weight to lose. I just want to get down to 200. My body hates being under 215 though. And I'm always hungry. I go in and out of keto pretty easy. I'll feel run down for about 8 hours then energy forever. I actually have trouble sleeping because I have too much energy. |
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Posted: 9/2/2020 7:40:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn, that's a lot of weight to lose. I just want to get down to 200. My body hates being under 215 though. And I'm always hungry. I go in and out of keto pretty easy. I'll feel run down for about 8 hours then energy forever. I actually have trouble sleeping because I have too much energy. I had that a lot when I first got into ketosis. Too much energy to sleep and I was up every 2 hours peeing. I have been kicked out twice so far and was able to get back in quick and easy. Usually by the next morning I am back to normal. |
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Posted: 9/2/2020 8:12:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had that a lot when I first got into ketosis. Too much energy to sleep and I was up every 2 hours peeing. I have been kicked out twice so far and was able to get back in quick and easy. Usually by the next morning I am back to normal. I'm just always hungry. |
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Posted: 9/4/2020 4:46:33 PM EDT
[#29]
I felt like I was running on empty when I was in Keto. I did get my deadlift up to 585 lbs. I think you will gain muscle for a while then the tanks run dry.
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Posted: 9/4/2020 7:01:40 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I felt like I was running on empty when I was in Keto. I did get my deadlift up to 585 lbs. I think you will gain muscle for a while then the tanks run dry. You still have to eat calories if you want to gain muscle. Once you become keto adapted the tired feeling goes away. |
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Posted: 9/4/2020 7:13:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Keto is for cutting, not for getting stronger and it's not sustainable for the normal person.
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Posted: 9/4/2020 8:09:57 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You still have to eat calories if you want to gain muscle. Once you become keto adapted the tired feeling goes away. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I felt like I was running on empty when I was in Keto. I did get my deadlift up to 585 lbs. I think you will gain muscle for a while then the tanks run dry. You still have to eat calories if you want to gain muscle. Once you become keto adapted the tired feeling goes away. I was never tired, but my muscles would gas out fast at work. I haven't really had my muscles wear out in the middle of a task since I was young and green, I kept having to take breaks while catching edges because my arms were getting tired. Once I got back on carbs I was fine again. |
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Posted: 9/4/2020 8:38:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was never tired, but my muscles would gas out fast at work. I haven't really had my muscles wear out in the middle of a task since I was young and green, I kept having to take breaks while catching edges because my arms were getting tired. Once I got back on carbs I was fine again. I never have those problems. |
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Posted: 9/5/2020 1:38:38 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never have those problems. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I was never tired, but my muscles would gas out fast at work. I haven't really had my muscles wear out in the middle of a task since I was young and green, I kept having to take breaks while catching edges because my arms were getting tired. Once I got back on carbs I was fine again. I never have those problems. You seem to be a big proponent of keto, that's great and keto has its place for sure. There's a reason almost no professional trying to gain muscle uses keto. Its probably the most suboptimal diet to gain muscle that you could use. If you went and YouTubed a bunch of ifbb pros eating videos, you'd never see one focused on gaining muscle eating keto, only ones losing fat and even then it's fairly rare. You'd mostly find sedentary office workers using keto bc the compliance component seems to fit that demographic very well. I've used it and it didn't work for me very well but I can see it's place. I preferred a different plan for fat loss. |
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Posted: 9/5/2020 7:20:38 AM EDT
[#35]
When I do keto it is extreme by most doing keto standards. I’m running a low caloric deficit while in ketosis.
When I get under the bar it takes very little time to deplete the glucose left in the tank when doing keto. The shakes start, kind of like being in shock and performance is shit. So to make up for that I add carbs but in my extreme followings, I’m fat again. There’s some good advise for carb targeting with keto that sounds like the happy medium from what I’ve experienced. I’m too dumb or lazy to find that perfect fit for me. |
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Posted: 9/5/2020 10:16:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You seem to be a big proponent of keto, that's great and keto has its place for sure. There's a reason almost no professional trying to gain muscle uses keto. Its probably the most suboptimal diet to gain muscle that you could use. If you went and YouTubed a bunch of ifbb pros eating videos, you'd never see one focused on gaining muscle eating keto, only ones losing fat and even then it's fairly rare. You'd mostly find sedentary office workers using keto bc the compliance component seems to fit that demographic very well. I've used it and it didn't work for me very well but I can see it's place. I preferred a different plan for fat loss. I already said it's not good for gaining muscle. But I don't experience any of the problems people say they experience on keto. I think they just aren't eating enough. And also not enough protein. I worked out for 2 hours yesterday felt great. |
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Posted: 9/5/2020 2:50:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You seem to be a big proponent of keto, that's great and keto has its place for sure. There's a reason almost no professional trying to gain muscle uses keto. Its probably the most suboptimal diet to gain muscle that you could use. If you went and YouTubed a bunch of ifbb pros eating videos, you'd never see one focused on gaining muscle eating keto, only ones losing fat and even then it's fairly rare. You'd mostly find sedentary office workers using keto bc the compliance component seems to fit that demographic very well. I've used it and it didn't work for me very well but I can see it's place. I preferred a different plan for fat loss. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was never tired, but my muscles would gas out fast at work. I haven't really had my muscles wear out in the middle of a task since I was young and green, I kept having to take breaks while catching edges because my arms were getting tired. Once I got back on carbs I was fine again. I never have those problems. You seem to be a big proponent of keto, that's great and keto has its place for sure. There's a reason almost no professional trying to gain muscle uses keto. Its probably the most suboptimal diet to gain muscle that you could use. If you went and YouTubed a bunch of ifbb pros eating videos, you'd never see one focused on gaining muscle eating keto, only ones losing fat and even then it's fairly rare. You'd mostly find sedentary office workers using keto bc the compliance component seems to fit that demographic very well. I've used it and it didn't work for me very well but I can see it's place. I preferred a different plan for fat loss. What plan for fat loss did you prefer? |
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Posted: 9/5/2020 2:56:17 PM EDT
[#38]
320 squat for 7 in keto it's a new high bar PR for me. Yes you can build muscle in keto.
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Posted: 9/5/2020 5:24:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What plan for fat loss did you prefer? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was never tired, but my muscles would gas out fast at work. I haven't really had my muscles wear out in the middle of a task since I was young and green, I kept having to take breaks while catching edges because my arms were getting tired. Once I got back on carbs I was fine again. I never have those problems. You seem to be a big proponent of keto, that's great and keto has its place for sure. There's a reason almost no professional trying to gain muscle uses keto. Its probably the most suboptimal diet to gain muscle that you could use. If you went and YouTubed a bunch of ifbb pros eating videos, you'd never see one focused on gaining muscle eating keto, only ones losing fat and even then it's fairly rare. You'd mostly find sedentary office workers using keto bc the compliance component seems to fit that demographic very well. I've used it and it didn't work for me very well but I can see it's place. I preferred a different plan for fat loss. What plan for fat loss did you prefer? I don't really think in terms of "plans" but what I did resembled what bodybuilders do. 40 40 20 or 40 35 25, in that area. 1.5 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight then fill in the rest. I would do closer to 2 grams now that I'm on trt but I'm not really working out anymore. Carbs are the enemy for me but protein is not. Protein is absolutely essential. |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 10:50:19 AM EDT
[#40]
I have to agree with many that keto, carnivore and IF are all awesome fat lose methods.
Looking to pack on muscle is best done with carbs. Timing is important |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 6:11:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keto is for cutting, not for getting stronger and it's not sustainable for the normal person. Why is it not sustainable? I always hear this claim, but never the reason(s) why it cannot be sustained. |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 6:12:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is it not sustainable? I always hear this claim, but never the reason(s) why it cannot be sustained. Because pizza tastes good.
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Posted: 9/9/2020 7:08:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because pizza tastes good. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why is it not sustainable? I always hear this claim, but never the reason(s) why it cannot be sustained. Because pizza tastes good. Pizza and then right back on still counts as sustainable  Seriously through, I've heard local dieticians on the news claim it was unsustainable, but the reporters never asked why that was. |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 7:09:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is it not sustainable? I always hear this claim, but never the reason(s) why it cannot be sustained. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Keto is for cutting, not for getting stronger and it's not sustainable for the normal person. Why is it not sustainable? I always hear this claim, but never the reason(s) why it cannot be sustained. Beer Pizza Pasta Donuts Cookies Ice cream Soda Candy ... |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 7:14:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pizza and then right back on still counts as sustainable Seriously through, I've heard local dieticians on the news claim it was unsustainable, but the reporters never asked why that was. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why is it not sustainable? I always hear this claim, but never the reason(s) why it cannot be sustained. Because pizza tastes good. Pizza and then right back on still counts as sustainable Seriously through, I've heard local dieticians on the news claim it was unsustainable, but the reporters never asked why that was. I had an endocrinologist tell me that you would get ketoacidosis and ruin your kidneys if you did it too long. And fat and red meat is bad. This was at a work wellness event so I didn’t press the issue. A guy in the audience has been doing carnivore for 2 years or so, keto even longer...he started twitching after her response.  I asked her opinion on keto after she gave her diet recommendation. The “expert” thinks that low-moderate carb, low fat is sustainable. Eat 10 lbs of salad with a little chicken breast every day I guess. |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 8:52:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Beer Pizza Pasta Donuts Cookies Ice cream Soda Candy ... I just drink whiskey now. Thay other stuff knocks me out for a bit. But I hop right back in. I'm really not sure how long I can do keto without cheating for awhile. I do love carbs. But I feel so much better without them. |
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Posted: 9/9/2020 8:54:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had an endocrinologist tell me that you would get ketoacidosis and ruin your kidneys if you did it too long. And fat and red meat is bad. This was at a work wellness event so I didn’t press the issue. A guy in the audience has been doing carnivore for 2 years or so, keto even longer...he started twitching after her response. I asked her opinion on keto after she gave her diet recommendation. The “expert” thinks that low-moderate carb, low fat is sustainable. Eat 10 lbs of salad with a little chicken breast every day I guess. Salad tried to kill ragincajun1919. |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 12:31:58 AM EDT
[#48]
@abnk
Look up ketogains on Facebook. There’s a way to do it. There is science behind it. And the results are shown loud and clear on that page. The macros are different and the food is more limited for a reason. There is as much to learn about building muscle on keto as there is on keto itself. |
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Posted: 10/8/2020 9:23:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @abnk Look up ketogains on Facebook. There’s a way to do it. There is science behind it. And the results are shown loud and clear on that page. The macros are different and the food is more limited for a reason. There is as much to learn about building muscle on keto as there is on keto itself. Thank you. |
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Posted: 10/9/2020 4:19:21 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @abnk Look up ketogains on Facebook. There’s a way to do it. There is science behind it. And the results are shown loud and clear on that page. The macros are different and the food is more limited for a reason. There is as much to learn about building muscle on keto as there is on keto itself. Thanks for posting this reference. I will have to check out that group. |
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