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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:29:47 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Average electric vehicle: 1500 parts. Average ICE vehicle: 10,000 parts. Conversation over. Electric vehicles will dominate commuting in the next few decades. With such simplicity, it seems EVs should be MUCH less expensive than they are. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:30:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://static.tweaktown.com/news/6/9/69304_01_here-best-mods-attachments-tesla-cybertruck.jpg 500 miles range 1100hp AWD 1/8" stainless steel skin Future is now gramps Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can't wait, it will be wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.hgmsites.net%2Fmed%2Fevoasis-charging-station-rendering_100425503_m.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 https://static.tweaktown.com/news/6/9/69304_01_here-best-mods-attachments-tesla-cybertruck.jpg 500 miles range 1100hp AWD 1/8" stainless steel skin Future is now gramps 
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:31:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has motors that break essentially never. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How much does a new motor cost on other cars that go 0-60 in 2.8 seconds? This isn't the motor. Its the fuel tank. Tesla has a motor as well. It has motors that break essentially never. Pardner, electric motors break all the time. I've had to pull electric motors off of equipment and have the end bells turned and sleaved. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:31:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think I'll ever own an electric car. It just doesn't really satisfy a need for me. However, I could easily see where it would satisfy alot of needs for alot of people. And I think as technology advances, alot more people will see the advantages. Tesla is pushing for a million mile battery pack. When they get there it will be a game changer. Again, not for me. These are the future. Ice will always be around. But look at chainsaws, weedeaters and even lawnmowers. All available in electric. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:32:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With such simplicity, it seems EVs should be MUCH less expensive than they are. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:33:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pardner, electric motors break all the time. I've had to pull electric motors off of equipment and have the end bells turned and sleaved. Electric motors are a llllooooooottttt less likely to break than turbocharged ICE engines with 8 speed transmissions. This is why the maintenance bills on EVs are a fraction of ICE autos. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:33:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I still think we're going about it all backwards. First should be the upgrade to the infrastructure that will be needed to support all this. Because yea an outlet cable of charging and electric vehicle very quickly at every parking spot does seem like a bigger problem than many people realize. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you can't figure out how to find a charging port near some restaurants where you can eat and charge for once or twice a week... Or don't have a charger at work.... Or don't have your own parking area at home.... Maybe it isn't for you? Lol. We landed people on the moon and split the atom, but outlets on sidewalks are a bridge too far...  Outlets? No problem. Connecting all those outlets to a grid robust enough to supply them with electricity? Problem. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:33:49 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: there are shops that can break down your tesla battery. find the bad cell and replace it. and it will not cost `16 grand. I would think that those battery banks would need to be replaced together lest you create some dangerous issues. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:33:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody in this thread is advocating that ICE be made illegal, any more than Henry Ford advocated that horse powered transport be made illegal. He produced a product that was superior in every way, and the infrastructure changed itself to reflect that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Electric cars are the future. If you disagree, it's because you haven't done the math. It's that simple. It is the future but it won't be the total future unless gov mandated. If ICE is not banned then they will be around for another 100 years By 2050 1/3 of all cars are going to be electric, the other 2/3 will be hybrids Nobody in this thread is advocating that ICE be made illegal, any more than Henry Ford advocated that horse powered transport be made illegal. He produced a product that was superior in every way, and the infrastructure changed itself to reflect that. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:35:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then why do they have so many pumps? For something that takes less than 5-10 minutes to fill? Maybe because of anticipating demand or if there's a problem with one or more or something? What's the anticipated demand if your vehicle needs an hour at one of those spots? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Electric Cars' range are quickly catching up to ICE range. And charging times are coming down as well. Even if it takes 6 times longer to charge... How often do you see EVERY gas pump taken up at a Sheetz? God help us........... Do you regularly see every gas pump at every gas station with a car at it? I generally see about 1/4 to 1/3 of pumps taken up. What's the anticipated demand if your vehicle needs an hour at one of those spots? Someone can make an argument that charging at home cuts into the demand for "pump" space, but regardless of how the math works out, I don't want to be waiting 6x longer for my range to be replenished. I get gas when I can, and not until I need it. I'm usually in a hurry too. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:35:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With such simplicity, it seems EVs should be MUCH less expensive than they are. The battery is the big cost. They are dropping in price by 15-18% per year.  Tesla 4680s are targeting <$60 at the pack level. This chart is why ICE is doomed. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:36:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And with very few exceptions, none of them are suitable for doing real work. I guess the liberal utopian, high-density, urban, assigned housing won't have much need for anything beyond that, but isn't that kinda the point? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't think I'll ever own an electric car. It just doesn't really satisfy a need for me. However, I could easily see where it would satisfy alot of needs for alot of people. And I think as technology advances, alot more people will see the advantages. Tesla is pushing for a million mile battery pack. When they get there it will be a game changer. Again, not for me. These are the future. Ice will always be around. But look at chainsaws, weedeaters and even lawnmowers. All available in electric. I so would like an electric riding mower..... |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:36:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Electric motors are a llllooooooottttt less likely to break than turbocharged ICE engines with 8 speed transmissions. This is why the maintenance bills on EVs are a fraction of ICE autos. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pardner, electric motors break all the time. I've had to pull electric motors off of equipment and have the end bells turned and sleaved. Electric motors are a llllooooooottttt less likely to break than turbocharged ICE engines with 8 speed transmissions. This is why the maintenance bills on EVs are a fraction of ICE autos. Until that battery pack shits the bed. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:37:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Imagine if our entire infrastructure was built for electric cars and then someone invented the ICE and suggested switching to it. They would be laughed out of town.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:37:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My Son has Inlaws that are earth hugging anti-trump stupid motherfuckers. They bought a Prius, stretched their budget to do it, have to get up every night at 2:30am to "un plug the charger so it doesn't hurt the battery" and now it's time to replace the battery pack. Can't afford to do it. Can't sell it like it is. REFUSES to believe it wasn't a GREAT deal. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:38:03 PM EDT
[#16]
This doesn't bother Karen & Gregg. They lease their Tesla, and aren't bothered by things such as replacement parts.
They did their research on their iThing while waiting in line at Lululemon, where Gregg's new jogging outfit was on clearance. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:38:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Tesla Model 3 starts at $37k, or about what a loaded Toyota Camry goes for. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: With such simplicity, it seems EVs should be MUCH less expensive than they are. And yet the Camry has nearly 7 times as many parts that need to be produced and assembled. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:38:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sweet. Where is it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't wait, it will be wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.hgmsites.net%2Fmed%2Fevoasis-charging-station-rendering_100425503_m.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 https://static.tweaktown.com/news/6/9/69304_01_here-best-mods-attachments-tesla-cybertruck.jpg 500 miles range 1100hp AWD 1/8" stainless steel skin Future is now gramps Urge to buy P-40 vinyls rising... 300 mile range 600hp AWD Is the best I can do at the moment.  |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:39:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Until that battery pack shits the bed. Which will probably happen to less people than an ICE needing a transmission replaced. I hear 8 speed AWD transmissions are cheap too. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:40:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the point. And the tech on EVs is advancing such that almost nobody is going to chose an ICE by the early 2030s. It will literally be like "For $40k, I can buy an EV with 500 miles of range and 800 AWD horsepower that will cost $0.04 per mile in fuel, or I can buy a 300hp ICE that costs $0.11 per mile in fuel" |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:43:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just root your car and install linux Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Until it all gets shut down with the click of a mouse. I get what you're saying I really do. But that's not the direction we seem to be heading, is it? If a company comes out with an EV that's completely disconnected from the internet like my current car maybe I'd be more interested. Just root your car and install linux |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:52:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  They didn't build all the gas stations and refineries needed before we had gas cars. The number of gas stations and ICE infrastructure grew with the number of ICE cars. The same will be true of EVs. This issue is not an issue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I still think we're going about it all backwards. First should be the upgrade to the infrastructure that will be needed to support all this. Because yea an outlet cable of charging and electric vehicle very quickly at every parking spot does seem like a bigger problem than many people realize. They didn't build all the gas stations and refineries needed before we had gas cars. The number of gas stations and ICE infrastructure grew with the number of ICE cars. The same will be true of EVs. This issue is not an issue. when I say it would be a good idea to get ahead of it on the infrastructure? It's not going to be like putting a large tank in the ground.... |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:52:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My car will burn $10,000 in gas over it’s entire life. 16k is a lot to spend on an energy tank that you have to fill every 200 miles. That's not a lot of gas at all! I average $3,500-$4k/ year in gas in my truck. Tesla warranties all batteries and engines for I think 8 years. So replacing it at $16k after 8 years is still substantially cheaper than gas. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:54:29 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think I'll ever own an electric car. It just doesn't really satisfy a need for me. However, I could easily see where it would satisfy alot of needs for alot of people. And I think as technology advances, alot more people will see the advantages. Tesla is pushing for a million mile battery pack. When they get there it will be a game changer. Again, not for me. These are the future. Ice will always be around. But look at chainsaws, weedeaters and even lawnmowers. All available in electric. I use to think this too. Until my FIL got a Tesla. They are so much fun to drive. You would have to spend well into the 6 figures to get that kind of jump off the line with a gas car. I really want a Tesla truck when it rolls out. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:54:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But these and other $50k+ cars you have to throw away every 5 - 8 years are going to replace gasoline cars.   Yes Yes they are going to replace them. Not today, not tomorrow, but in the foreseeable future. People that can't see this are delusional. There were people in the 90s that thought the internet wouldn't take over our lives. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:56:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Urge to buy P-40 vinyls rising... 300 mile range 600hp AWD Is the best I can do at the moment. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138374/20201031_141925-1662542.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't wait, it will be wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.hgmsites.net%2Fmed%2Fevoasis-charging-station-rendering_100425503_m.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 https://static.tweaktown.com/news/6/9/69304_01_here-best-mods-attachments-tesla-cybertruck.jpg 500 miles range 1100hp AWD 1/8" stainless steel skin Future is now gramps Urge to buy P-40 vinyls rising... 300 mile range 600hp AWD Is the best I can do at the moment. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/138374/20201031_141925-1662542.jpg
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:56:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I love how people think electric vehicles are part of a grand Must Comply enslavement scheme. How much effort would it take for you, right now, to construct a way to generate your own electricity at home? Comparatively, how much effort would it take for you, right now, to construct a way to synthesize gasoline at home? Cord cutters and off the grid types should be delighted by electric vehicles. They open up so many more possibilities for you. It's difficult to *deny* gasoline to someone It's extremely easy to deny use to a Tesla driver. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:57:25 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not a lot of gas at all! I average $3,500-$4k/ year in gas in my truck. Tesla warranties all batteries and engines for I think 8 years. So replacing it at $16k after 8 years is still substantially cheaper than gas. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My car will burn $10,000 in gas over it’s entire life. 16k is a lot to spend on an energy tank that you have to fill every 200 miles. That's not a lot of gas at all! I average $3,500-$4k/ year in gas in my truck. Tesla warranties all batteries and engines for I think 8 years. So replacing it at $16k after 8 years is still substantially cheaper than gas. Don't tell them lol. They like to pretend they buy their car off the lot and they don't have to spend any money on it
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Posted: 1/27/2021 2:58:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But these and other $50k+ cars you have to throw away every 5 - 8 years are going to replace gasoline cars. They will. Municipalities are already working on mandating it. Gasoline cars and trucks just can't keep up with the power and performance that you can easily get from electric. Regulations are shackling gas engines, while boosting electric. It's going to happen sooner than you're probably imagining. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:01:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet the Camry has nearly 7 times as many parts that need to be produced and assembled. And way better range. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:02:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Toyota has decided to go fuel cells. Zero emissions except water vapor and rapid refueling.
The Cell will likely last for decades. You will transfer it to a new car. Your car will have a price with or without a cell. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:04:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't wait, it will be wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.hgmsites.net%2Fmed%2Fevoasis-charging-station-rendering_100425503_m.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:05:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://static.tweaktown.com/news/6/9/69304_01_here-best-mods-attachments-tesla-cybertruck.jpg 500 miles range 1100hp AWD 1/8" stainless steel skin Future is now gramps Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can't wait, it will be wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.hgmsites.net%2Fmed%2Fevoasis-charging-station-rendering_100425503_m.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 https://static.tweaktown.com/news/6/9/69304_01_here-best-mods-attachments-tesla-cybertruck.jpg 500 miles range 1100hp AWD 1/8" stainless steel skin Future is now gramps And the most important feature of all; fictitious |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:06:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The battery has a minimum lifespan of 1,500 charge cycles, which should translate to 300,000+ miles (standard range/standard range plus) to 500,000 miles (long-range variants) New batteries will be hitting 1 million miles+ lifespan within a few years. But you still have to drive around in a Tesla... |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:07:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We were supposed to have flying cars by 1980. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ICE will be reduced to niche applications. We were supposed to have flying cars by 1980. And out of fossil fuels. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:10:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Until it all gets shut down with the click of a mouse. I get what you're saying I really do. But that's not the direction we seem to be heading, is it? If a company comes out with an EV that's completely disconnected from the internet like my current car maybe I'd be more interested. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I love how people think electric vehicles are part of a grand Must Comply enslavement scheme. How much effort would it take for you, right now, to construct a way to generate your own electricity at home? Comparatively, how much effort would it take for you, right now, to construct a way to synthesize gasoline at home? Cord cutters and off the grid types should be delighted by electric vehicles. They open up so many more possibilities for you. I get what you're saying I really do. But that's not the direction we seem to be heading, is it? If a company comes out with an EV that's completely disconnected from the internet like my current car maybe I'd be more interested. Exactly. All electric cars are being marketed as 'smart cars' I have yet to encounter a single 'smart' device that wasn't burdened with garbage software, from phones to thermostats. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:12:39 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If a company starts doing that. And who knows they might. There would be a hell of a price to pay if they did. Never mind the possibility that the system might be hacked into. Which is a thing that people have already demonstrated... With internal combustion powered cars!!! |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:14:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrong. Those of us who remember what OPEC did to us in the 70s are dumbfounded at people doing the same thing only with the Chinese. Raw materials for li-ion batteries aren't mined here, I don't believe. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My wife's Prius is 10 years old with close to 90,000 miles and the battery health is fine. Replacement ICE's aren't cheap either and aren't getting any cheaper, however batteries will only become cheaper. Those of us who remember what OPEC did to us in the 70s are dumbfounded at people doing the same thing only with the Chinese. Raw materials for li-ion batteries aren't mined here, I don't believe. The entire green-whatever movement is now geared toward turning America into a client state wholly dependent on China for its energy needs. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:18:05 PM EDT
[#39]
200,000 miles divided by 20 mpg = 10,000 gallons
10,000 gallons x $4.00 Per Xiden gallon = $40,000.00 $16,000.00 battery saves $24,000.00! |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:23:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I'm looking to buy an offroading vehicle for my vacation on Mars, I'll probably be looking at electric. In the meantime, I don't feel like being a part of his R&D team. I have my own business to worry about, and if you are thinking that this stuff isn't being driven by the religion of environmentalism, you are whistling past the graveyard. When the tech is ready, people will readily adopt them. We won't have condescending pricks on AR15.com telling us we are too stupid or boomerish to appreciate where things are with EVs on January, 27th, 2021. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Battery technology and charger availability will never improve! Electric cars are a top down driven tech, driven by the establishment religion of environmentalism. Battery tech will improve but likely not like those pushing it want. All tech doesn't advance the same way. Elon is not driven by environmentalism, hes going to Mars and there is no dino oil to burn there. When the tech is ready, people will readily adopt them. We won't have condescending pricks on AR15.com telling us we are too stupid or boomerish to appreciate where things are with EVs on January, 27th, 2021. Fire breathing synthfuel roadsters will still be cooler on Mars  Hydrocarbons are simply a better storage & transport medium. Find a way to create a simple synthetic fuel from CO2 and water (both extremely common on Mars), which uses approximately the same energy as you'd need for comparable battery systems (if not less since no battery losses). We presently have lazy, biomatter based fermentation methods, but it's probably possible do it electrolytically, maybe even inside a solar fuel cell. At that point, you're done; you have total freedom to use, store, transport, or refine that stable hydrocarbon fuel however you wish. Far more flexible than a battery. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:24:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It cant really work like that, most people are not going to pay extra now for a future capability. It will take rolling blackouts in most cities before they actually fix anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you can't figure out how to find a charging port near some restaurants where you can eat and charge for once or twice a week... Or don't have a charger at work.... Or don't have your own parking area at home.... Maybe it isn't for you? Lol. We landed people on the moon and split the atom, but outlets on sidewalks are a bridge too far... It cant really work like that, most people are not going to pay extra now for a future capability. It will take rolling blackouts in most cities before they actually fix anything. Especially after decades of "X type of power generation is WRONG!" propoganda, combined with obsessively reducing consumption. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:25:08 PM EDT
[#42]
With diesel making energy at home consists of making alcohol like the moonshiners have done for generations. Just set up a still from even crude materials. Now how does you make the electricty - solar panels from China?
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:26:21 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Guns, too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Okay, so how would YOU refer to already enacted legislation prohibiting the sale of new ICE vehicles after a certain date? This is the same communist plot that got lead paint and asbestos phases out  Guns, too. And DDT. We were supposedly ten years from annihilating mankind's greatest scourge, malaria, like we did smallpox. A small price to pay for dumpster-raiding bald eagles, though!
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:26:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Sounds like a real free country there.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:27:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pardner, electric motors break all the time. I've had to pull electric motors off of equipment and have the end bells turned and sleaved. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How much does a new motor cost on other cars that go 0-60 in 2.8 seconds? This isn't the motor. Its the fuel tank. Tesla has a motor as well. It has motors that break essentially never. Pardner, electric motors break all the time. I've had to pull electric motors off of equipment and have the end bells turned and sleaved. That isn't even getting into sensors, drivers/power supplies, or control boards, lol. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:32:09 PM EDT
[#46]
How much for an LS swap?
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:33:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Toyota has decided to go fuel cells. Zero emissions except water vapor and rapid refueling. The Cell will likely last for decades. You will transfer it to a new car. Your car will have a price with or without a cell. I think there is a lot of potential there that could be made better from engineering solutions. Even if someone comes up with better batteries the problem of how to get the energy into the batteries will always remain. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:33:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Toyota has decided to go fuel cells. Zero emissions except water vapor and rapid refueling. The Cell will likely last for decades. You will transfer it to a new car. Your car will have a price with or without a cell. Hadn't heard that; I guess they found a way around delicate, platinum-based parts? It really is the best of both worlds, in theory. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:49:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But these and other $50k+ cars you have to throw away every 5 - 8 years are going to replace gasoline cars. They're banking on car ownership rates to collapse. Auto manufacturers (and governments, I assume, since they have their hands in everything now) are expecting everyone to use more Uber like services - you would subscribe to a service that regularly takes you to and from work and/or can be summoned for errands. I sometimes wonder if all the electronics and safety mandates are really not just efforts to increase cost and further this end. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 3:57:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hadn't heard that; I guess they found a way around delicate, platinum-based parts? It really is the best of both worlds, in theory. lol Fuel cells are the worst of both worlds high fuel cost and high capital cost. |
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