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Posted: 9/14/2021 8:34:05 PM EDT
DEAR MODS I'MMA NOT GONNA SAY WHAT COMPANY I AM, POST LINKS, OR DISCUSS PRODUCTS, JUST SAFETY.

PLEASE DON'T BANT ME.



Got this picture from [redacted]. Apparently, it was set up at 20 yards as part of upcoming [redacted event]. Some absolute donut shot what appears to be a full mag of 556 at it. That would be bad for the target and potentially the shooter if it was 3/8" AR500, but this was a blem, made of AR400 cause the shop screwed up. It was sold as a magnum pistol rated target, which it would be fine for.

Result - lots of pits, and at least two outright penetrations. Hopefully no damage to the hostage mechanism (you can see the paddle behind to the left).

Solution - Short term, unbolt it, use the clean side for pistol.
Long term, [redacted] is sending out a new plate to reduce risk of spalling during the event. Damaged plate may be given as a prize or something to someone who did terrible.

Do read manufacturer recommendations. Do use common fucking sense. Don't shoot rifle at steel that close.

Safety third, but don't be dumb.

Shills Team Six - don't @ me don't post links in this one, I don't wanna get in trouble or for you to do so. If you wanna post your own reviews of [redacted] products, feel free, but elsewhere. xoxoxoxooxox
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:38:30 PM EDT
20 yrds is too close for rifle on steel.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:40:08 PM EDT
FPNI
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:40:30 PM EDT
That's a shitty thing to do to someone else's target.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:41:41 PM EDT
Someone needs to have a talk with that idiot.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:42:36 PM EDT
lol yes I would say that is the expected evidence of abusing a steel target with a rifle at 20 yards.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:42:50 PM EDT
I wouldnt be surprised to find pitting if it was m855. M193 too, but mostly if it was a 20"
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:43:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nu3gawhat:
20 yrds is too close for rifle on steel.
View Quote
Attachment Attached File


Did ya read the OP, bud?
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:45:57 PM EDT
How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard?
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:48:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:48:38 PM EDT
I wonder how much spall that guy got back.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:48:40 PM EDT
A few years of M855 and M193 at 100 yards .



Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:49:00 PM EDT
Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation…

I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time.

Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:49:23 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Malbec:
How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard?
View Quote


Those pockets will redirect bullet fragments back at you.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:49:31 PM EDT
Pitting creates a safety hazard. You want as smooooooth as possible. My experience is the surface speed limit for AR500 is 2800 ft/s, 2500 ft/s for AR400. That's at the target, not the muzzle.

Best practice is the worse the surface, the further you want that target away from you. Once you get holes, you should make it an extreme long range target, or junk it. The target in the OP is not safe to shoot at pistol distance any more.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Malbec:
How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard?
View Quote

Anything inside of 25 yards at steel plates is risky business.  It's not so much about the damage to the plates as it is the chance of catching some frags from bullet jackets, or lead.  While the shooter at close range targets is at risk, anyone else nearby on the firing line is at risk.  I've seen other people catch first aid type injuries because another shooter on the line set up a target too close and blasted away at it.  Got one guy banned from a club I was a member at.  When I was younger, I caught a richochet from a 38 special lead semiwadcutter that bounced back off the plate / metal stand the plates were sitting on.  I was probably 20 yards away, shooting by myself.  Took the round to my abdomen and scared the shit out of me, luckily didn't penetrate, as it had flattened out to a quarter sized piece of hot lead.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AKengineer:
That's a shitty thing to do to someone else's target.
View Quote


I had a dude at the AZHTF camping/shooting event shoot one of my full size IPSC silhouettes with a 50 BMG AP round.  People are fucking retards.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:24 PM EDT
If someone did that to my range, they would never come back.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:45 PM EDT
20 yards is a bit close for rifle work on steel but I can tell you right now from looking at that target, unless you shot some hot calibers, it's not AR500 steel.  Is Abrasive Resistant for sure but not with a Brinell hardness of 500.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:52:52 PM EDT


75 yard minimum at buddy’s private set up with 556.  No green tip ever. You would think that would be a no brainer.

How about some angle down as well.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:53:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Malbec:
How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard?
View Quote



Steel is one aspect of range safety school that is very real and unforgiving.  

You need hard line policies to safety shoot a full line of guys on steel.  

Wrap around eye pro, long sleeves, hats, frangible ammo, targets hanging free to move or angled to direct frag down, clear understanding of range ran and frag impact areas…it all matters.

Yes, divots on steel can cause ricochet.  I would shoot frangible on it no closer than 15 yards.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:55:13 PM EDT
I called it when I first saw the photo. People are idiots.

Love you Mitch
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:55:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nvgeologist:
Pitting creates a safety hazard. You want as smooooooth as possible. My experience is the surface speed limit for AR500 is 2800 ft/s, 2500 ft/s for AR400. That's at the target, not the muzzle.

Best practice is the worse the surface, the further you want that target away from you. Once you get holes, you should make it an extreme long range target, or junk it. The target in the OP is not safe to shoot at pistol distance any more.
View Quote


:like:

When OP talks about hardness, penetration and holes, folks should listen up.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:55:34 PM EDT
[redacted] & [redacted]
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:55:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:56:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pdm:
20 yards is a bit close for rifle work on steel but I can tell you right now from looking at that target, unless you shot some hot calibers, it's not AR500 steel.  Is Abrasive Resistant for sure but not with a Brinell hardness of 500.
View Quote
You're correct, but if you'd read the OP, you wouldn't have had to be correct.

It's AR400, sold as a magnum pistol rated blem. Shop screwed up and cut it from 400 instead of 500.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:57:13 PM EDT
About 10 years ago I was at a training event and one of my good friends took a copper jacket into his TONGUE from shooting a steel target setup at a bad angle.

I am here to tell you there was blood. And getting metal taken out of your tongue isnt cool.

Not to be fucked with at short range.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:58:19 PM EDT
What fuckwit would find that acceptable?

Was shooting a national qualifier IPSC match a dozen years ago and some fucking dickbag had a go at the mini pepper popper steel before the match with a rifle leaving the edges of it looking that that. I was burning through the stage and out of the corner in my see my 180 grain Berry's JHP coming back at me like the world's shiniest bumblebee. It hit me right in the elbow, fracturing the humerus.  RO should have cancelled the stage before the match began, and I should have had the sense to not give it a go after doing the walkthrough.

That range was shut down soon after, but that's ok, it was a dumpster fire :(
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 8:59:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pdm:
20 yards is a bit close for rifle work on steel but I can tell you right now from looking at that target, unless you shot some hot calibers, it's not AR500 steel.  Is Abrasive Resistant for sure but not with a Brinell hardness of 500.
View Quote

Reading isn't your strong point, huh?
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:04:26 PM EDT
Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation…

I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time.

Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:06:41 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By nvgeologist:
You're correct, but if you'd read the OP, you wouldn't have had to be correct.

It's AR400, sold as a magnum pistol rated blem. Shop screwed up and cut it from 400 instead of 500.
View Quote


Ah ha. So much for my Evelyn Wood speed reading classes.


I'd throw it out to the 100 yard line and shoot the shit out of it. I never bother with anything other that AR500 from a quality manufacturer who uses a water jet or something similar. Even soft edges from a plasma cutter will cause a target to cup after a while. I have full size poppers (stab and shoots) that have 10's and 10's of thousands of 5.56 rounds on them from 10 yards and out and they don't look that bad.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:07:37 PM EDT
It’s not like you know what you’re talking about or anything
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:08:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2021 9:09:39 PM EDT by HDLS]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pdm:
20 yards is a bit close for rifle work on steel but I can tell you right now from looking at that target, unless you shot some hot calibers, it's not AR500 steel.  Is Abrasive Resistant for sure but not with a Brinell hardness of 500.
View Quote

Reading is fundamental.  


“…this was a blem, made of AR400 cause the shop screwed up. It was sold as a magnum pistol rated target, which it would be fine for…”
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:09:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Austin4130:
Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation…

I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time.

Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better.
View Quote

Originally Posted By Austin4130:
Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation…

I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time.

Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better.
View Quote

You can say that again
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:12:04 PM EDT
AR500 3/8" hang fast target,angled down at 50 yards 556 rounds

I never shoot them closer than 50 yards with 556/223




Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:12:29 PM EDT
Guy that trashed that target is a fucking mook
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:12:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2021 9:13:05 PM EDT by Obo2]
that did a pretty good job of fucking up that plate.
I've shot your shit about that close and didn't jack it up that bad. of course a swinging gong doesn't take the hits quite as bad.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:13:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Malbec:
How close can I go safely if I don't mind the pitting? Or is the pitting creating a safety hazard?
View Quote

the pitting creates a safety hazard
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:14:57 PM EDT
Because I love all things [redacted] & [redacted] log out and log back in OP.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:16:46 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AL_Safety:

Anything inside of 25 yards at steel plates is risky business.  It's not so much about the damage to the plates as it is the chance of catching some frags from bullet jackets, or lead.  While the shooter at close range targets is at risk, anyone else nearby on the firing line is at risk.  I've seen other people catch first aid type injuries because another shooter on the line set up a target too close and blasted away at it.  Got one guy banned from a club I was a member at.  When I was younger, I caught a richochet from a 38 special lead semiwadcutter that bounced back off the plate / metal stand the plates were sitting on.  I was probably 20 yards away, shooting by myself.  Took the round to my abdomen and scared the shit out of me, luckily didn't penetrate, as it had flattened out to a quarter sized piece of hot lead.
View Quote

yeah i yanked a pretty big piece of copper jacket out of my thigh at a 3 gun match before. was sitting probably ten yards behind and to the right of the shooter target was fairly close to shooter... bled like a motherfucker
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:21:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Austin4130:
Glad to see you back, and pushing edumacation…

I know 100% I would have been dense enough to shoot that at one time.

Growing up it was normal to shoot whatever scrap was around, now I know better.
View Quote


Me and the fellas set a 5,000btu window unit on fire in the Orosco Ridge Truck Trails with Norinco 7.62 steel core back in the 90's.  Ahh, those were the days of being young and dumb.  I never knew aluminum could burn!
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:22:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AL_Safety:

Anything inside of 25 yards at steel plates is risky business.  It's not so much about the damage to the plates as it is the chance of catching some frags from bullet jackets, or lead.  While the shooter at close range targets is at risk, anyone else nearby on the firing line is at risk.  I've seen other people catch first aid type injuries because another shooter on the line set up a target too close and blasted away at it.  Got one guy banned from a club I was a member at.  When I was younger, I caught a richochet from a 38 special lead semiwadcutter that bounced back off the plate / metal stand the plates were sitting on.  I was probably 20 yards away, shooting by myself.  Took the round to my abdomen and scared the shit out of me, luckily didn't penetrate, as it had flattened out to a quarter sized piece of hot lead.
View Quote


For rifle, absolutely.

Pistol rounds on steel is just fine at 7 yards.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:23:27 PM EDT
i think i saw this on reddit
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:24:11 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History



Long ago at a Flatiron mountain shoot west of Phoenix, a friend brought out this neat steel target, looked a lot like that. Had a kind of spring tensioned ball and socket pivot mount.
He sets it about 100 yards downrange, says "you can shoot all you want at that".  
During the shoot I see people busting on it with a variety of things, mostly SMG's and handguns,a couple shorty AR's but he did say "anything".

I double checked.
He said "anything".  

So I plonked a 30 round mag full of MkVII ball in a friend's MKII BREN, and stitched the target.   Yeah.
Pretty much took it apart.  What did not blow through, shattered the welds and blew the mounting to bits.

That's when I learned that "anything" did not mean "ANYTHING".

He wasn't too mad, I offered to pay for the damage, reweld it, anything, I was thoroughly embarassed.
The guy who made it said "No, don't worry about it.", and that "Next one would be better".

Later I had similar done to a gong I made using a VW flywheel.  I figured it could stand off a good burst, even tested pretty thoroughly it with my battery of Enfields..
Nope.  
For those that remember him, Bob Faris took it apart with a Lewis gun, and as the flywheel was rolling downhill, reduced that to fragments.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:25:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2021 9:26:21 PM EDT by RyanEsstac]
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:27:02 PM EDT
Probably 15 years ago I was blasting away at some targets at a friends ranch and swung around on his 20 yard pistol target just as he said NO WAIT I blazed a clean hole straight through it.

And now I know that you don’t do that.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:27:31 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAD762:


Those pockets will redirect bullet fragments back at you.
View Quote


Yup.  Been there.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:29:43 PM EDT
Good Lord, I thought the title must have been a typo until I opened the thread.

I use 300 blk powder coated lead subs in a clone of my 5.56 rifle (with different mags and a different color handguard) to practice on steel, but even then, I'm wary of anything inside of 25 yards or so.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:29:52 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PantherArms762:
Probably 15 years ago I was blasting away at some targets at a friends ranch and swung around on his 20 yard pistol target just as he said NO WAIT I blazed a clean hole straight through it.

And now I know that you don't do that.
View Quote

Steel targets are a lot like chronographs. You generally buy your first one to replace the one you just destroyed that you were borrowing from a buddy.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:30:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FelisTacet:


Me and the fellas set a 5,000btu window unit on fire in the Orosco Ridge Truck Trails with Norinco 7.62 steel core back in the 90's.  Ahh, those were the days of being young and dumb.  I never knew aluminum could burn!
View Quote



Dust initiator.  Not only will it burn, it'll explode.....or at least appear to the untrained eye.
Link Posted: 9/14/2021 9:39:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PantherArms762:
Probably 15 years ago I was blasting away at some targets at a friends ranch and swung around on his 20 yard pistol target just as he said NO WAIT I blazed a clean hole straight through it.

And now I know that you don’t do that.
View Quote


....because you never got invited back?
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