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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:08:02 AM EDT
[#1]
Yeah, but it’s called a Walther PPQ.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:08:26 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryIs the trigger really better? I shoot lights out with my 2.0s stock. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:11:39 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thoughts on a sig p320? I've had 4 226 and 3 320s. I know, I know, bore axis doesnt matter for a shooter. Well it does matter that the sight picture is different than all my other pistols. Cover the whole target with the slide. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:13:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, but it’s called a Walther PPQ. Yes 2.0 My only plastic are 2.0s and ppq |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:22:25 AM EDT
[#5]
As others have pointed out, its not the angle itself, its that stupid fucking hump.
P80s are fine for me, OEM Glocks just suck for me to shoot. That being said, I'll take most CZ-75 or Beretta 92 derivatives over a P80 or especially over a true Glock |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:23:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just curiois OP, how much time have you spent actually shooting the glock? I use to bitch about grip angle, pointing high, etc... and researching alternatives to fix what I thought was an objective issue turned out to be subjective after I started really shooting the gun. Proper grip and thumbs forward really changed it for me. Now I love shooting glocks. I haven't made a switch to them over other handguns its just became another gun I shoot well now. when from Hi Power and CZs to Glocks. took a bit but now Glocks feel and handle just fine. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:32:31 AM EDT
[#7]
The number one thing to do with a Glock is put your trigger finger on the slide or all the way to the ejection port when presenting the pistol. Putting it beside the trigger will have you pointing at the sky. The number 2 thing to do is practice.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:34:31 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whats the opinions on the Canik TP9 and Arex Deltas? I have held the Canik TP9 Elite and it was nice. The Arex also feels good in the hand but needs extended mag and slide releases. Never shot either. What is the parts availability situation for those? |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:36:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sometimes in a shooting, you don't have time to use the sights and a weird grip angle will throw off your shots if you don't train with the gun much. ie, practice with a normal-angled gun but carry a Glock on duty. That doesn't make any sense. Why would you not practice with the Glock that you carry daily? |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:42:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue is mostly settled with a weird trick called "science!". An overlay of grip angles between the most popular gun shows a deviation of less than 7 degrees in either direction. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sometimes in a shooting, you don't have time to use the sights and a weird grip angle will throw off your shots if you don't train with the gun much. ie, practice with a normal-angled gun but carry a Glock on duty. The issue is mostly settled with a weird trick called "science!". An overlay of grip angles between the most popular gun shows a deviation of less than 7 degrees in either direction. And how many feet will you be shooting high (or low) if your grip angle is 7 degrees different at 5 yards? |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:44:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the parts availability situation for those? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Whats the opinions on the Canik TP9 and Arex Deltas? I have held the Canik TP9 Elite and it was nice. The Arex also feels good in the hand but needs extended mag and slide releases. Never shot either. What is the parts availability situation for those? That's where I'm at with all Turkanese firearms. As someone said about foreign surplus, same principle, one day here, the next not. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:47:18 AM EDT
[#12]
Polymer80 frame is the answer. You can even get them in serialized format if you're looking to avoid the hassle of milling out an 80% (and possible tolerance / pin walk issues). By far better than normal Glock frames, in my opinion.
The P320 X5s are, IMHO, substantially better guns out of the box than the Glock MOS pistols, albeit I haven't messed with the gen5s. ETA: also, learn to use your sights instinctively. If you're so close you don't need them, then your grip angle is even more inconsequential. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:48:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That doesn't make any sense. Why would you not practice with the Glock that you carry daily? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sometimes in a shooting, you don't have time to use the sights and a weird grip angle will throw off your shots if you don't train with the gun much. ie, practice with a normal-angled gun but carry a Glock on duty. That doesn't make any sense. Why would you not practice with the Glock that you carry daily? Exactly, which is why glock is brilliant, similar to apple users, once you commit they own you. Anyone can shoot paper with different models but to intuitively point with anything you own, it has to be intuitive. I dont own glocks or sigs for this very reason, yes I can still hit with them. Im a utilitarian collector, I love them all but they need to fit at this point. ETA and I've been through a number of glocks and sigs because I listen to you homos. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:48:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Grip Zone.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:53:46 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That doesn't make any sense. Why would you not practice with the Glock that you carry daily? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sometimes in a shooting, you don't have time to use the sights and a weird grip angle will throw off your shots if you don't train with the gun much. ie, practice with a normal-angled gun but carry a Glock on duty. That doesn't make any sense. Why would you not practice with the Glock that you carry daily? Maybe someone grew up shooting a Glock then joined the military and got issued an M18 or M9. Maybe someone is law enforcement with a duty Glock and Guard / Reserve military with a duty M18 and has to practice with both. Perhaps the tables are turned and someone grows up shooting a 1911 then becomes a cop and has to carry a Glock. Regardless, I noticed a big difference in my natural point of aim (it was off) when doing dry fire drills with a Glock after years of practice with other handguns. So I ended up selling my Glock. Maybe it was grip angle, maybe it was something else. Don't really care. There are plenty of great guns out there without looking to Glock. They're good too, but different. The PC v. Apple was a good analogy. Both good but most people pick one and stick with it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 8:55:27 AM EDT
[#16]
You may be shocked to learn your wrists actually move in all manner of directions.
This remains true even when holding objects in your hand. You may be equally shocked to discover that Glock pistols come equipped with convenient aiming devices called "sights" that, in combination with the amazing ability to move your wrists, allows you to overcome this titanic struggle you're having OP. I wish you luck and god-speed in your quest to unravel the mystery of wrists. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:00:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's where I'm at with all Turkanese firearms. As someone said about foreign surplus, same principle, one day here, the next not. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whats the opinions on the Canik TP9 and Arex Deltas? I have held the Canik TP9 Elite and it was nice. The Arex also feels good in the hand but needs extended mag and slide releases. Never shot either. What is the parts availability situation for those? That's where I'm at with all Turkanese firearms. As someone said about foreign surplus, same principle, one day here, the next not. Canik, I have seen parts and mags. Arex.. not so much. I am also not looking, so maybe they're around. Couldn't tell you. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:09:47 AM EDT
[#18]
Meh, concentrate on the front sight and not the grip angle and the holes will be where you want them.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:12:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may be shocked to learn your wrists actually move in all manner of directions. This remains true even when holding objects in your hand. You may be equally shocked to discover that Glock pistols come equipped with convenient aiming devices called "sights" that, in combination with the amazing ability to move your wrists, allows you to overcome this titanic struggle you're having OP. I wish you luck and god-speed in your quest to unravel the mystery of wrists. You must be an apple guy. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:13:52 AM EDT
[#20]
I have pondered this myself. It is a recurring theme among many who own various types of correctly designed pistols and want to try a glock. They purchase a glock say $400ish blue label, then spend another few hundred in custom parts and smithing to make it what they want. Figure they now have a $700 pistol that is still worth about $400 but man they can get those $20 mags instead of the other brand's $30 mags.
The alternative being, buy CZ, Smith, Canik, Walther, HK, Sig, buy a couple $30 mags, done. Cost about $400-$500ish blue lable, to achieve the same result. Which makes more sense???? I admit that I own one glock, a model 40mos. I bought it because no one else makes a pistol in this class. It has a red dot mounted and will not be used for anything like instinctive combat type shooting. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:14:21 AM EDT
[#21]
Shadow systems mr920
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:15:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know a Glock and a 1911 have the same grip angle, right?  Attached FileIts the hump that people are bitching about. On the 1911 you can swap the arched mainspring houseing for a flat one. Its too bad glock doesn't offer a swappable hump module for those that hate it, but still, it doesnt take much to learn it. (and yes I know they're the same angle too) |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:22:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Has anyone tried the PSA Dagger?
Glock is a fine pistol but I don’t like the way it fits my hand either. Lots of good choices available. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:24:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have pondered this myself. It is a recurring theme among many who own various types of correctly designed pistols and want to try a glock. They purchase a glock say $400ish blue label, then spend another few hundred in custom parts and smithing to make it what they want. Figure they now have a $700 pistol that is still worth about $400 but man they can get those $20 mags instead of the other brand's $30 mags. The alternative being, buy CZ, Smith, Canik, Walther, HK, Sig, buy a couple $30 mags, done. Cost about $400-$500ish blue lable, to achieve the same result. Which makes more sense???? I admit that I own one glock, a model 40mos. I bought it because no one else makes a pistol in this class. It has a red dot mounted and will not be used for anything like instinctive combat type shooting. The impulse to modify is also not unique to Glock. Just look at any CZ thread and the number of posters saying you have to send it to Cajun Gunworks. Just because someone does something, does not mean it was necessary. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:25:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/525/135_png-1789378.JPG Its the hump that people are bitching about. On the 1911 you can swap the arched mainspring houseing for a flat one. Its too bad glock doesn't offer a swappable hump module for those that hate it, but still, it doesnt take much to learn it. (and yes I know they're the same angle too) |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:26:01 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been saying this for decades: people that have issues with the Glock palm swell are those that learned to shoot on 1911s and don't want to use their sights. Glocks fit the natural shape of a closed fist better and work great for people who haven't developed the bad habit of pushing the bottom of their wrist forward that a 1911 forces you to do. That being said, Walther polymer guns have probably the most ergonomic and comfortable grips I've ever come across on a pistol USP .45 takes exception! |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:29:51 AM EDT
[#27]
OP sell a gun and take an intro to shooting class. Grip angle doesn't matter.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:36:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd wager that for every one person who puts that kind of money into a Glock there are hundreds or thousands who drive on happily with the stock pistol or add sights at most. The impulse to modify is also not unique to Glock. Just look at any CZ thread and the number of posters saying you have to send it to Cajun Gunworks. Just because someone does something, does not mean it was necessary. I think the impulse is greater with Glock than with other brands, particularly as one becomes a better shooter and more knowledgeable about firearms in general. I think there is some social impetus fed by internet marketing and peer pressure, but also practical shortcomings of the design that become more apparent with experience. I guess I can agree with you somewhat about CZ, but in many cases, I see, those are glock guys who have become accustomed to changing stuff. The idea that it does not need changes is simply foreign to them. On my P10c I found it to be exactly what I wanted in every respect right out of the box. I saw no need to change anything. In fact, on all of my pistols except my glock, there are no changes needed or desired from factory orignal.  The G40 on top will likely get grip reduction surgery. I shoot it well slow fire, but would prefer it to be more instinctive like everything else in the pic. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:45:20 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M&P I grew up shooting 1911s and Barretta 92s. I could never shoot a Glock worth a darn because of the grip angle. That's why I bought an M&P years ago. Before the tragic boating accident, of course. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:51:38 AM EDT
[#30]
if a couple degrees of grip really makes a big difference you're doing at least one other thing very wrong.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 9:56:35 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if a couple degrees of grip really makes a big difference you're doing at least one other thing very wrong. Wat? |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:24:36 AM EDT
[#32]
To all those saying "just use the sights":
I have 20 years and many, many thousands of rounds shooting a 1911. Once you train enough, get familiar enough, you can literally throw up the pistol with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and the sights are right there. This is literally a test I do at the gun counter. I have zero interest in reversing that natural aim, nor majorly screwing it up by owning a mix of angles. 1911 is goodMy XD is good Looking for a 9 polymer that is also good. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:24:45 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M&P 2.0 This |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:25:49 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Because every glock I've ever held, I would accomplish nothing but shooting clouds. I have too many other American angled pistols and years of shooting to train my way into the European angle. ETA: must be in current production or widely available. But.... “muh perfection!” 
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:44:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To all those saying "just use the sights": I have 20 years and many, many thousands of rounds shooting a 1911. Once you train enough, get familiar enough, you can literally throw up the pistol with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and the sights are right there. This is literally a test I do at the gun counter. I have zero interest in reversing that natural aim, nor majorly screwing it up by owning a mix of angles. 1911 is goodMy XD is good Looking for a 9 polymer that is also good. PPQ M1 if you don’t mind the paddle-type mag release, M2 if you like the more traditional button-type. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:49:07 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Canik, I have seen parts and mags. Arex.. not so much. I am also not looking, so maybe they're around. Couldn't tell you. Caniks picked up decent aftermarket support, unless Biden does something to keep them from coming in they're not going anywhere. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:50:08 AM EDT
[#37]
FPNI. P80 is what Glock should have been all along.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:52:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly, which is why glock is brilliant, similar to apple users, once you commit they own you. Anyone can shoot paper with different models but to intuitively point with anything you own, it has to be intuitive. I dont own glocks or sigs for this very reason, yes I can still hit with them. Im a utilitarian collector, I love them all but they need to fit at this point. ETA and I've been through a number of glocks and sigs because I listen to you homos. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sometimes in a shooting, you don't have time to use the sights and a weird grip angle will throw off your shots if you don't train with the gun much. ie, practice with a normal-angled gun but carry a Glock on duty. That doesn't make any sense. Why would you not practice with the Glock that you carry daily? Exactly, which is why glock is brilliant, similar to apple users, once you commit they own you. Anyone can shoot paper with different models but to intuitively point with anything you own, it has to be intuitive. I dont own glocks or sigs for this very reason, yes I can still hit with them. Im a utilitarian collector, I love them all but they need to fit at this point. ETA and I've been through a number of glocks and sigs because I listen to you homos. Nope. Anyone with even a modicum of natural talent can fire any production handgun intuitively and efficiently. People that become slaves to a particular brand either lack talent or lack discipline to train. If you were a utilitarian collector, you would have seen the merits of the Glocks and Sigs and had the discipline to train with them to utilize them. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 10:57:26 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wish you luck and god-speed in your quest to unravel the mystery of wrists. Well, Gaston never solved it, and he did okay... |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:04:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sometimes in a shooting, you don't have time to use the sights and a weird grip angle will throw off your shots if you don't train with the gun much. ie, practice with a normal-angled gun but carry a Glock on duty. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't guess I'll ever understand this. I just use the sights. I'm not anything special as far as shooting pistols, I admit. Sometimes in a shooting, you don't have time to use the sights and a weird grip angle will throw off your shots if you don't train with the gun much. ie, practice with a normal-angled gun but carry a Glock on duty. I'm playing with a G45MOS w/ RDS and I draw nearly every day during work conference calls to practice picking up the dot intuitively. If I go grab my M&P and do the same I'm going to be pointing low. For me, the Glock is normal-angled. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:05:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To all those saying "just use the sights": I have 20 years and many, many thousands of rounds shooting a 1911. Once you train enough, get familiar enough, you can literally throw up the pistol with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and the sights are right there. This is literally a test I do at the gun counter. I have zero interest in reversing that natural aim, nor majorly screwing it up by owning a mix of angles. 1911 is goodMy XD is good Looking for a 9 polymer that is also good. I've had the good fortune to be able to have done a lot of pistol shooting in the last 20 years. I'd say I have 50K rounds fired on the 1911 system, 30-40K on the Beretta 92/M9, 40K combined on the Glock System, and probably another 50K combined on the Sig, HK, and XD systems. This statement rings true across all platforms: "Once you train enough, get familiar enough, you can literally throw up the pistol with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and the sights are right there." It's not difficult to become proficient with any pistol and it doesn't take 10's of thousands of rounds. Dry firing is free and can be done at home. Mag changes, draw practice, etc can all be done at home for zero cost. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:08:24 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've had the good fortune to be able to have done a lot of pistol shooting in the last 20 years. I'd say I have 50K rounds fired on the 1911 system, 30-40K on the Beretta 92/M9, 40K combined on the Glock System, and probably another 50K combined on the Sig, HK, and XD systems. This statement rings true across all platforms: "Once you train enough, get familiar enough, you can literally throw up the pistol with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and the sights are right there." It's not difficult to become proficient with any pistol and it doesn't take 10's of thousands of rounds. Dry firing is free and can be done at home. Mag changes, draw practice, etc can all be done at home for zero cost. I think the issue is whether or not it's worth it, when everything else works for someone and one does not. See my photo above, one thing is not like all the others in one critical aspect. Even the tiny keltec comes up to my natural point of aim. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:10:25 AM EDT
[#43]
If you can't pick up any pistol and make hits with it, it is you, not the gun.
This obviously doesn't apply to a pistol that won't shoot straight in a machine rest. I.e. it is damaged or sub standard. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:13:20 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To all those saying "just use the sights": I have 20 years and many, many thousands of rounds shooting a 1911. Once you train enough, get familiar enough, you can literally throw up the pistol with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and the sights are right there. This is literally a test I do at the gun counter. I have zero interest in reversing that natural aim, nor majorly screwing it up by owning a mix of angles. 1911 is goodMy XD is good Looking for a 9 polymer that is also good. I have a few years on you and when I was shooting competition with 1911, I was averaging 500 rounds a week, for about ten years. I can still do a clean, sub 6 second el presedente with a G17. It is not the pistol. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:16:19 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The number one thing to do with a Glock is put your trigger finger on the slide or all the way to the ejection port when presenting the pistol. Putting it beside the trigger will have you pointing at the sky. The number 2 thing to do is practice. Makes it kind of hard to shoot if you present with your finger on the slide. Trigger should break as your arms lock out. (Or you come to whatever shooting position you use) |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:21:04 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To all those saying "just use the sights": I have 20 years and many, many thousands of rounds shooting a 1911. Once you train enough, get familiar enough, you can literally throw up the pistol with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and the sights are right there. This is literally a test I do at the gun counter. I have zero interest in reversing that natural aim, nor majorly screwing it up by owning a mix of angles. 1911 is good My XD is good Looking for a 9 polymer that is also good. Your an engineer, as well as the Mod in the 3D printing and CAD forum. Make you own? Isn't this what you bought the new printer for? |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:21:08 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryBet those are on a “list” better get one soon |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:29:11 AM EDT
[#48]
I like my VP9 better than my Glocks.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:41:05 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your an engineer, as well as the Mod in the 3D printing and CAD forum. Make you own? Isn't this what you bought the new printer for? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: To all those saying "just use the sights": I have 20 years and many, many thousands of rounds shooting a 1911. Once you train enough, get familiar enough, you can literally throw up the pistol with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and the sights are right there. This is literally a test I do at the gun counter. I have zero interest in reversing that natural aim, nor majorly screwing it up by owning a mix of angles. 1911 is good My XD is good Looking for a 9 polymer that is also good. Your an engineer, as well as the Mod in the 3D printing and CAD forum. Make you own? Isn't this what you bought the new printer for? As an engineer, my time is valuable. Since I work for myself, the more I work, the more money I make. I can very literally put a dollar amount on my spare time. I wouldn't carry something unless I was 110% sure of it, especially being 3D printed. Fun as toys, but as long as I have the option, I'll just buy a commercially made unit. I'm currently looking at printing/building a 10/22 just for kicks  . |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 11:44:12 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a few years on you and when I was shooting competition with 1911, I was averaging 500 rounds a week, for about ten years. I can still do a clean, sub 6 second el presedente with a G17. It is not the pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: To all those saying "just use the sights": I have 20 years and many, many thousands of rounds shooting a 1911. Once you train enough, get familiar enough, you can literally throw up the pistol with your eyes closed, open your eyes, and the sights are right there. This is literally a test I do at the gun counter. I have zero interest in reversing that natural aim, nor majorly screwing it up by owning a mix of angles. 1911 is goodMy XD is good Looking for a 9 polymer that is also good. I have a few years on you and when I was shooting competition with 1911, I was averaging 500 rounds a week, for about ten years. I can still do a clean, sub 6 second el presedente with a G17. It is not the pistol. But why? I'm looking for my first 9mm carry gun. This means that I have to adopt a new caliber (I'm HEAVILY invested in 45 at the moment) in a HORRIBLE time to adopt a new caliber. That would be very expensive, if even economically feasible or possible. OR Just buy a gun that works with the training I have done to date. |
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