Polymer80

Zev

Some of the 80% frames have a much flatter 'hump' on the rear of the grip. I also recall people heating up the hump of the OEM frame and flattening it.

OEM Glock

M&P 2.0

FPNI

Shops like Cold Bore Customs and Boresite Solutions can flatten the backstrap for you to make the angle more "American". I use Cold Bore Customs for all my Glocks, he does a great job.

Git Gud

Whatever P80 frame you get, just get the corresponding mags. Full from with a 17 slide, get 17 mags, compact frame with 19 slide, get 19 mags, etc.

Full size 9mm will net you 17 rds, compact 9mm gets you 15

I don't guess I'll ever understand this.  I just use the sights.  I'm not anything special as far as shooting pistols, I admit.

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Grip reduction package is what you want

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M&P

CZ P10

This

P80 is an 80% pistol you make yourself. Aside from the plastic frame it is all OEM Glock or equivalent parts.

My M&P 1.0 is excellent. They are no longer made, and 2.0 isn't available in CA. Thanks Kamala Harris.

This is the first one of mine that Cold Bore Custom did for me, grip reduction package and removed the finger grooves





With the hump removed it points much more naturally for me.

Here is a more recent one he did:

Timberwolf frames by Lone Wolf may be worth a look.

Pretty much this.

Shoots Great, mags are inexpensive, Lifetime Warranty.  Plenty of aftermarket support for various accessories & holsters.

Glock Grip Angles & Natural Pointing never worked for me.  

1911 Check!  Beretta M-9 check!   Sig P226 check!  M&P PERFECT!!!

Plus you have the different drop in grip panels for different sized hands of different shooters (Daughter, Wife, ect...)

More options than a glock by far. Most people here would be better off with a p320. But they have that whole. Muh perfuction bullshit in their head.

This

They also offer 100% serialized frames, just install the parts that you want to use. Grey Ghost Precision is the same thing, just a different texturing of the frame and their logo.

CZ P10?

This.

Yup

Just curiois OP, how much time have you spent actually shooting the glock?

I use to bitch about grip angle, pointing high, etc... and researching alternatives to fix what I thought was an objective issue turned out to be subjective after I started really shooting the gun.

Proper grip and thumbs forward really changed it for me. Now I love shooting glocks. I haven't made a switch to them over other handguns its just became another gun I shoot well now.

I've been saying this for decades: people that have issues with the Glock palm swell are those that learned to shoot on 1911s and don't want to use their sights. Glocks fit the natural shape of a closed fist better and work great for people who haven't developed the bad habit of pushing the bottom of their wrist forward that a 1911 forces you to do. That being said, Walther polymer guns have probably the most ergonomic and comfortable grips I've ever come across on a pistol

The “pointability” of the Flock being “off” comes from a few things.

One is familiarity.  If you spent your life with a shift lever on the steering wheel column or on the middle floor or console, like virtually every commonly used car was for decades, and now all of a sudden you get a New Defender with the lever in the middle of the dash, or no lever at all just a dial, things are going to feel a little off.

Also, when you are an engineer and materials/polymer expert, with only a basic experience with firearms use, and zero in gun design or manufacturing, you might not “get” what you are making feels a little off.  It’s sort of like a lifelong motorcycle rider that has ridden in cars and learned to drive them, but then never owned or drove one for decades, made design a car a little off.

Part of the pointability and control abilty and ergonomics of a pistol is based on the bore axis.  Probably by luck, he did pretty good with this compared to a lot of classic semiauto pistol designs. The 17 weighs like 2 pounds fully loaded and more like 1.5 pounds towards finishing off a magazine, an M9, P226, M1911A1, hell, some guns like a steel framed SP01 tactical with a 20 round mag are well over 3 pounds loaded.  A heavy gun with a high bore axis pushing 2 inches shooting 9mm probably isn’t near the issue it would be, in say, a 1.7 pound polymer pistol shooting 10mm with a high bore axis.

Another is trigger alignment.  The middle of the trigger lining up to about the web of your hand seems to be ideal.  Very mechanically natural with hammer fired guns, and pretty classic for a 1911, Beretta, High Power, CZ, SIG, etc.  The natural propensity in laying out the design of a striker gun would have your finger pointing down towards the ground instead of parallel with the barrel.

Another is trigger angle.  Pulling straight back vs at an angle.

Another is grip angle. Not having to cock your wrists up or down to point straight.

Another is quality of trigger pull.  Although once you get to a reasonable trigger quality most of us will not benefit from better.

Another is grip size, shape, etc.  Which can be much more subjective, user size dependent, etc.

So, the most ideal, ergonomic, and controllable handgun will be one:

Not too heavy, not too light.  There is a pretty wide range for this. And Glock is fine.  A full sized/capacity handgun from 1.5 to 2.5 pounds seem pretty acceptable to most as OT too light to control and not too heavy to be a burden.

A low bore axis.  Although, with less powerful calibers and heavier guns this does not seem to come into as much play or importance as is often brought up.  And Glock actually does pretty well here.

Trigger alignment is really bad on the Glock.  Of the top of my head the only thing I have handled worse is a Steyr.  Something else I haven’t touched in years was horrible as well, I can’t recall.  Glock is popular and widely used for a lot of reasons.  Trigger alignment is not one of them.  It’s popular in spite of it.  Again, this is how a striker lays out unless you purposefully fight the obvious design.  My M17 and M18 are my first strikers that seem to have perfect alignment like a hammer fired gun.

This is also why the trigger angle is off.  They are sort of related.

Most guns are not going to be a tuned, SA game gun.  They have come along way from the classic sproing striker trigger.  87% of GD will never shoot well enough that an off the shelf Gen5 trigger is holding them back.

Grip angle is also “off”. And people train with it and get used to it, but it would be be a much better, more natural gun if he had knew about it and designed slightly different.

While a Glock does not seem to snuggle with your hand like a M1911A1, try to make love to it like a Browning a high Power, etc. At least it does not seem to try to prison shower ass rape it like the classic original issue M9.

Anyways, while you can play with shaving the shape, like Beretta did with the 92 radius backstrap or trimmed up Vertec, the grip angle is inherent to the magazine angle, function angle, etc. And I don’t see how they could significantly change it without significant changes.

You ever notice those things on top of the gun? They are called sites. Or is it sights...

Polymer CZ's

P320

Sometimes in a shooting, you don't have time to use the sights and a weird grip angle will throw off your shots if you don't train with the gun much. ie, practice with a normal-angled gun but carry a Glock on duty.

So does the p80 frame for a G19 have a more 1911 grip angle?

And do they offer one without the rail?

I don’t like rails.

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They're 17, 19, or 26 clones.
You can buy them as 80% frames, or go through an FFL for complete pistols and serialized frames.

Kharn

If only humans had adjustable wrists and hands.

Grip angle is the most ridiculous complaint ever concocted by plastic pistol haters....and yes it was concocted by old "guns should by metal" people. Then picked up and parroted by others who hate Glocks but will buy other plastic pistols as long as they aren't Glock.

I can pick up any gun, hammer, pencil, spoon, knife etc., etc. without crying about the angle at which it needs to be held.

If you can't adjust to a different grip angle in 20-30 minutes of drawing, dry firing and 50 live rounds you are a retard.

Line up the sights on the target,  press trigger to rear while maintaining sight alignment

sorcery!

Whats the opinions on the Canik TP9 and Arex Deltas?

I have held the Canik TP9 Elite and it was nice. The Arex also feels good in the hand but needs extended mag and slide releases.

Never shot either.

You know a Glock and a 1911 have the same grip angle, right?

If you can safely and accurately shoot a 1911 or a revolver, there is minimal adaptation required for shooting any of the most popular offerings of plastic guns.

The issue is mostly settled with a weird trick called "science!". An overlay of grip angles between the most popular gun shows a deviation of less than 7 degrees in either direction.

Can you define what you are calling American and European?  Most European guns based on the Browning High Power as well as CZ, H&K, SIG, etc have the same 18 degree angle as the 1911.  Glock is 22.5 degrees.  The very American Ruger .22s have 33deg!

Mike

Yes