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Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:36:09 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:


I have some Prvi SS109 I need to take out one of these days.  Indoor ranges won't let you shoot it, for obvious reasons.

Izzy 77gr OTM is quite satisfactory ~1-1.5 MOA-ish , if not pricewise.  Stretching its legs too, to 300 or so, is on the to-do list.
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My range goes out to two hundred and I can still hit the reduced man target at that distance even with crappy American Winchester green tip. No problems shooting it there or tracers
VP
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:38:03 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
You are wrong on that.  It's good.
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I don’t know. The horror stories early on cause me to shy away from it
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:45:03 PM EDT
[#3]
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I want some Mk 319 projectiles. Midway had pulled bullets forever ago from some demilled ammo, but I only had a bolt action .308 at the time and thought "why would I ever need those?"

Now my only .308 is a 12.5" AR10 and the idea of a barrier blind 130gr 7.62x51 round takes me from 6 to midnight
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I bought a couple of their 250ct boxes of mk319 bullets and I'm still trying to decide what to do with them. Probably the same reason I bought 500 m855a1 pulls..because I thought it would be neat.

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:46:15 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


I bought a couple of their 250ct boxes of mk319 bullets and I'm still trying to decide what to do with them. Probably the same reason I bought 500 m855a1 pulls..because I thought it would be neat.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369762/20240221_144207-3136721.jpg
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M855a1 pulled bullets are available commercially now?
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 5:58:25 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
M855 and Mk262 mod1 for all the things here.

You can still find 855 if you look hard enough.
Just picked up a few thousand more last October.



H
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Yup and M855 (I’m sure 855A1 will too) is the only round that will penetrate both the drivers and passenger door if someone were using a car as cover.  We tested nearly every duty round over and over at our patrol rifle school. All the others will put a dimple on the passenger door, that’s without hitting anything in the interior and at a distance of 15 yards….
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 6:01:33 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


I don't know. The horror stories early on cause me to shy away from it
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Quoted:
Quoted:
You are wrong on that.  It's good.


I don't know. The horror stories early on cause me to shy away from it
I have a good bit of it.  Shot very little.  I know guys who have tested it pretty thoroughly with no problems.  YMMV.  Buy what suits you, not here to tell you what to buy, but I think it would work fine for you.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 6:06:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Edited. Link went haywire.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 6:09:09 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:


M855a1 pulled bullets are available commercially now?
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Whatever was on gunbroker, looks like it came from Missouri precision cartridge. I bought at 60 cents each, looks like it's up to 63 now.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 6:11:20 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
I prefer M193 over M855  
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as do I
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 6:25:39 PM EDT
[#10]
I've got tons of m193 and 855. Really like the m193. I bought the hell out of both when they were cheap.  I've also got 4k of SOST MK 318 MOD 0 bullets and 4k of trophy bear claw bullets to reload. Forgot who I got them from. They were pulled.  Plus 10k of 77 and 75 grain otp match bullets to reload. Bought cheap and stacked deep. Think I've got reloaders elbow.

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 6:29:45 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
I prefer M193 over M855  
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Link Posted: 2/21/2024 6:46:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 6:52:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:


I’ve got 15+ years in and fairly intimate knowledge of the weapons/munitions side of the house.  Do you even know what a GMAT is?  I’ve never seen a single round of the stuff in use and it’s not listed as an authorized munition for order by any SF units/accounts (just double checked and it’s not an authorized DODIC on any GMAT AF wide).

Are you confusing Mk318 for the brown tip frangible stuff (I think it’s Mk311, AA40 DODIC) used basically everywhere for Qual fire?

@Matt_Hunter
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Ahhh that’s what it was mk311 mod 3.  It’s a frangible, non toxic round.  I didn’t know there was a second mk… round they used.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 6:55:21 PM EDT
[#14]
I have more 855 then 193.  And that was from the damn ammo panics of past. More = at least 3:1
It's what it is. I no longer buy ammo regularly.  Cost too much & have other priorities.

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:05:00 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:


I bought a couple of their 250ct boxes of mk319 bullets and I'm still trying to decide what to do with them. Probably the same reason I bought 500 m855a1 pulls..because I thought it would be neat.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369762/20240221_144207-3136721.jpg
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Quoted:


I want some Mk 319 projectiles. Midway had pulled bullets forever ago from some demilled ammo, but I only had a bolt action .308 at the time and thought "why would I ever need those?"

Now my only .308 is a 12.5" AR10 and the idea of a barrier blind 130gr 7.62x51 round takes me from 6 to midnight


I bought a couple of their 250ct boxes of mk319 bullets and I'm still trying to decide what to do with them. Probably the same reason I bought 500 m855a1 pulls..because I thought it would be neat.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369762/20240221_144207-3136721.jpg


Well, if you wanna make some space and unload those Mk 319 projectiles…..
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:12:29 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


I have zero trust in psa ammunition.

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Quoted:

Yeah AAC 77gr OTM


I have zero trust in psa ammunition.


Okay then stop trying to save money and get Black Hills.

Easy peezy
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:24:22 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:

I get 1.5 MOA out of the PSA AAC 77gr OTM. Their AAC 75gr BTHP is loaded with Hornady BTHP and shoots slightly better for me as well as the AAC 77gr Sierra Matchking loads (1.2-ish MOA for me). I think they're the go-to for factory match plinking ammo.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Yeah AAC 77gr OTM

I get 1.5 MOA out of the PSA AAC 77gr OTM. Their AAC 75gr BTHP is loaded with Hornady BTHP and shoots slightly better for me as well as the AAC 77gr Sierra Matchking loads (1.2-ish MOA for me). I think they're the go-to for factory match plinking ammo.

My go to for plinking is Australian Outback SMKs. Great accuracy for me.

My rifles are zeroed for Black Hills though except my 16" SR15 that doesn't like it so it gets Speer. I'll probably go to FBI load after that
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:35:01 PM EDT
[#18]
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It is for sure, what a 20” rifle will do versus a 10.5” will with the same ammo is pretty wild.
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My next upper will have a 20" barrel.

I once had an AR with a 24" bull barrel once. It was heavy but fun off a bench. If I do it again I'll get one with a slow twist and use light bullets for varmint.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:37:36 PM EDT
[#19]
M855 was never king

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:39:29 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
well i would not want to get shot by it
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My daughter has a pink Daisey BB gun.

I would not want to get shot by it

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:42:14 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:


I bought a couple of their 250ct boxes of mk319 bullets and I'm still trying to decide what to do with them. Probably the same reason I bought 500 m855a1 pulls..because I thought it would be neat.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/369762/20240221_144207-3136721.jpg
View Quote

I have around 1500 or so of the pulled Mk319 projectiles I scored off of gunbroker before the secret was out on those. Tinkered with a load for both my Scout Squad M1A and FAL and got acceptable accuracy for a load to use through both.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:44:44 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:

Okay then stop trying to save money and get Black Hills.

Easy peezy
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That Black Hills Mk262 ammo is really good stuff.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:48:09 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:

My go to for plinking is Australian Outback SMKs. Great accuracy for me.

My rifles are zeroed for Black Hills though except my 16" SR15 that doesn't like it so it gets Speer. I'll probably go to FBI load after that
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Mine are zeroed for M193 since that's 95% of the ammo I shoot in them.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:53:26 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:

That Black Hills Mk262 ammo is really good stuff.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Okay then stop trying to save money and get Black Hills.

Easy peezy

That Black Hills Mk262 ammo is really good stuff.

Yeah it sure is. I am taking a gamble on the Dual Performance in my LPR. It's very accurate but I haven't shot anything with it so who knows. Not even a lot of gel tests.  But I trust Black Hills
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:55:34 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:

Mine are zeroed for M193 since that's 95% of the ammo I shoot in them.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

My go to for plinking is Australian Outback SMKs. Great accuracy for me.

My rifles are zeroed for Black Hills though except my 16" SR15 that doesn't like it so it gets Speer. I'll probably go to FBI load after that

Mine are zeroed for M193 since that's 95% of the ammo I shoot in them.

I'm the opposite. I zero for my specialty ammo but shoot M193. If I'm just practicing or plinking, the m193 is great and fine.

My 77gr zero works out to 350 just fine with m193 on steel. (Never shot for groups that far though). My idea is that I would want the best ammo when I want to do important things so that's what the gun should be zeroed for. When I'm just practicing, I'll take m193 because it's good
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 8:59:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Mine are zeroed for m193 as well, but the 77 grain otm matches that zero pretty well which works!

If I can find a chronograph I may do 5 round tests with m193, m855, 77 gr otm, and what else?

I can test out of 3 barrel lengths, I’ll see if my lgs has more of the Hornady 75 gr bthp. I may have some in the garage!

Question is, do I use my rock river NM A4 or capco m16a2 clone, or my 18” bcm NM
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:02:22 PM EDT
[#27]
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Yup and M855 (I’m sure 855A1 will too) is the only round that will penetrate both the drivers and passenger door if someone were using a car as cover.  We tested nearly every duty round over and over at our patrol rifle school. All the others will put a dimple on the passenger door, that’s without hitting anything in the interior and at a distance of 15 yards….
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No experience with the a1, but I’ve shot a lot of stuff with m855 and it really does burn through stuff.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:07:14 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:



No experience with the a1, but I’ve shot a lot of stuff with m855 and it really does burn through stuff.
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Quoted:
Quoted:



Yup and M855 (I’m sure 855A1 will too) is the only round that will penetrate both the drivers and passenger door if someone were using a car as cover.  We tested nearly every duty round over and over at our patrol rifle school. All the others will put a dimple on the passenger door, that’s without hitting anything in the interior and at a distance of 15 yards….



No experience with the a1, but I’ve shot a lot of stuff with m855 and it really does burn through stuff.

A1 is noticeably better in my simple retard tests of shooting it against different metals
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:07:33 PM EDT
[#29]
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I see some limited appeal to keeping a little M855 on hand.

Mostly using as a penetration means
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M193 will penetrate better than M855.  3200 fps vs 2800 fps.  I did a lot of testing of plates years
ago and M193 penetrated plates when 308, M855 and 762x39 rounds wouldn't.  We tested several
different manufacturers. Never understood the love of M855.

edit for spelling
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:09:11 PM EDT
[#30]
A1 bottom, m855 top

Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:09:34 PM EDT
[#31]
The one slightly to the left of A1 is m193
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:21:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Was it ever King?

M193 from a proper barrel was always better. M855 sucked so bad they developed Mk262 to replace it... sucking bad enough to warrant a concerted effort of replacement doesn't scream "king".
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:23:00 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:

Also, IMI, now known as IWI currently, is shiny mil-spec, if XM dull & scratched US cases are off-putting & shiny is preferred.
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IWI does not manufacture ammunition.

..
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:24:00 PM EDT
[#34]
It never was.

M193 FTW
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:24:19 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:

M855 has never been the king of anything.
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This.

...
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:27:58 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:


M193 will penetrate better than M855.  3200 fps vs 2800 fps.  I did a lot of testing of plates years
ago and M193 penetrated plates when 308, M855 and 762x39 rounds wouldn't.  We tested several
different manufacturers. Never understood the love of M855.

edit for spelling
View Quote



I believe you, but in my experience on ar500 plates m193 doesn’t damage it at all while m855 dimples it every time.

For the record I would much rather shoot 55 gr fmj or 77 gr otm.


My original thought was about military stocks and if m855 was still it. Sounds like it probably is but not sure for how long.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:37:21 PM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:

318 is a 62gr OTM.  By all accounts stupid accurate.

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MK318 Mod 0 (Federal T556TNB1)







One version of MK318 Mod 0 that is now available to the general public is being sold as Federal "white box" T556TNB1.  The SOST projectile loaded in the MK318 Mod 0 cartridge has a nominal weight of 62 grains and a nominal length of 0.87”.  It is constructed with a copper base and a small, non-bonded lead core in the ogive section of the bullet.  Due to this higher copper to lead ratio, the MK318 Mod 0 projectile is longer than a traditional copper jacketed/lead core projectile of the same weight, but is still slightly shorter than an M855 projectile.










While it is often stated that the SOST projectile used in MK318 Mod 0 is similar to the Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, the form of the SOST projectile more closely resembles that of Federal’s Trophy Bonded Tip projectile (without the tip of course.)  As previously mentioned, the MK318 projectile does not have a bonded core.

















The loaded MK318 Mod 0 cartridge has a nominal OAL of 2.20". The projectile does not have a cannelure per se, but the case mouth is crimped into the top relief band.  The cartridge is sealed at the case mouth, however not with the asphalt sealant typically found on military ammunition.  The primers are sealed and crimped.  The casehead is stamped "FC 10".  The cartridge is charged with ball powder.








A typical copper jacketed/lead core FMJ bullet will have a specific gravity of approximately 10.2.  Due to its higher copper to lead ratio construction, the MK318 Mod 0 projectile has a lower specific gravity.  When fired from  typical AR-15 barrel lengths with a 1:9” twist rate, MK318 Mod 0 will have a gyroscopic stability factor of  approximately 1.3.






When fired from typical length barrels with a 1:7" twist rate, MK318 Mod O will have a gyroscopic stability factor of approximately 2.2.








MK318 Mod 0 Chronograph Data

Chronographing of the Mk318 Mod 0 ammunition was conducted using an Oehler 35-P chronograph with “proof screen” technology. All velocities listed below are muzzle velocities as calculated from the instrumental velocities using Oehler’s Ballistic Explorer software program. All strings of fire consisted of 10 rounds each.












Each round was single-loaded and cycled into the chamber from a magazine fitted with a single-load follower.  The bolt locked-back after each shot allowing the chamber to cool in between each shot.  This technique was used to mitigate the possible influence of “chamber-soak” on velocity data. Each new shot was fired in a consistent manner after hitting the bolt release.   Atmospheric conditions were monitored and recorded using a Kestrel 4000 Pocket Weather Tracker.






Atmospheric conditions:

Temperature:  75 degrees F.
Humidity:  47%.
Barometric pressure: 29.97 inches of Hg
Elevation:  950 feet above sea level




Two different barrel lengths were used in obtaining velocity data; a 14.5” Colt M4A1 barrel and a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel.  Both barrels have NATO chambers, are chrome lined and have 1:7” twist rates.  Both barrels have low round-counts on them.  


M4A1 barrel.




M16A2 barrel.






For comparison, the MK318 Mod 0 ammunition was fired in sequence with two different brands of 62 grain M855 ammunition.  The firing order for both barrels was as follows:

1.A 10-shot string of Winchester Ranger M855
2.A 10-shot string of MK318 Mod 0
3.A 10-shot string of IMI M855

Finally, the data:










The Crane Warfare Centers' publication, “U.S. Navy Small Arms Ammunition Advancements” reported that MK318 was “optimized” for the MK 16 with a 14 inch barrel and claimed it has a velocity of 2925 fps at 15 feet from the muzzle (presumably from said 14 inch barrel.) The lot of Federal T556TNB1 (MK318 Mod 0) that I chronographed from the Colt 14.5” M4A1 barrel would have a velocity of approximately 2889 fps at 15 feet from the muzzle (at standard atmospheric conditions.)




Accuracy Evaluation of MK318 Mod 0

An accuracy (technically, precision) evaluation of the MK318 Mod 0 ammunition was performed following my usual protocol.  This accuracy evaluation used statistically significant shot-group sizes and every single shot in a fired group was included in the measurements. There was absolutely no use of any Group Reduction Techniques (e.g. fliers, target movement, Butterfly Shots).

The shooting set-up will be described in detail below. As many of the significant variables as was practicable were controlled for. Also, a  "control group" was fired from each barrel used in the evaluation using match-grade, hand-loaded ammunition; in order to demonstrate the capability of the barrel. Pictures of shot-groups are posted for documentation.

All shooting was conducted from a concrete bench-rest from a distance of 100 yards (confirmed with a laser rangefinder.) The barrels used in the evaluation were free-floated. The free-float handguards of the rifles rested in a Sinclair Windage Benchrest, while the stock of the rifles rested in a Protektor bunny-ear rear bag. Sighting was accomplished via a Leupold VARI-X III set at 25X magnification and adjusted to be parallax-free at 100 yards. A mirage shade was attached to the objective-bell of the scope. Wind conditions on the shooting range were continuously monitored using a Wind Probe. The set-up was very similar to that pictured below.




The Wind Probe.




In order to establish a working baseline for the intrinsic accuracy of the 62 grain SOST projectile itself, when fired from a semi-automatic AR-15, I worked-up a SAAMI pressure hand-load with pulled MK318 bullets and fired a 10-shot group of that load from a Krieger barreled AR-15 from a distance of 100 yards.  The Krieger barrel has a 1:7.7” twist rate.

Prior to firing the 62 grain SOST hand-load, I fired a 10-shot control group consisting of hand-loaded 62 grain Berger hollow points.  The extreme spread for the control group measured 0.66”.






The extreme spread of the 10-shot group of the 62 grain SOST hand-load measured 1.9”.











Since MK318 Mod 0 is intended for use as a combat round, I used AR-15s with chrome-lined, NATO chambered barrels for this accuracy evaluation, as it most likely that these are the types of barrels that this ammunition will most commonly be fired from.   It is sometimes possible to obtain  slightly better accuracy from mil-spec/NATO pressure loads by firing them  from an AR-15 that has a stainless steel match-grade barrel with a hybrid chamber such as the Noveske NMmod0 chamber or the Wylde chamber for examples;  but you're not going to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.


As previously mentioned, it is reported that MK318 was “optimized” for a 14 inch barrel, so it seemed only fitting to evaluate MK318 from a similar length barrel.  The first test vehicle used in this accuracy evaluation was a 14.5” Colt M4A1 barrel.  The barrel was free-floated with a Daniel Defense Omega rail.  (I was not able to use the mirage-shade with this barrel, due to the original standard front sight base on it.)  A previous accuracy evaluation of this M4A1 barrel demonstrated that this barrel is capable of excellent accuracy for a chrome-lined, NATO chambered barrel.  That evaluation can be viewed here:

The Colt M4A1 SOCOM Barrel









A control group fired from the M4A1 barrel using hand-loaded 62 grain Berger hollow-point projectiles had an extreme spread of 1.13”.





Three 10-shot groups of the MK318 were fired from the Colt M4A1 barrel from the previously described bench-rest set-up.  The extreme spreads of those groups measured:

2.91”
3.22”
2.70”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 2.94”.  The three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other using RSI Shooting Lab to form a 30-shot composite group.  The mean radius of this composite group was 1.02”.  (For those of you not familiar with the mean radius, I've posted an explanation of it in the third post of this thread.)


The smallest 10-shot group of MK318 fired from the Colt M4A1 barrel is shown below.






The next test vehicle was a 16” Colt HBAR with a 1:9” twist.  This is the same barrel found on the Colt 6721 Tactical Carbine.  This barrel is one of the most accurate “out of the box” chrome-lined, NATO chambered barrels that I’ve evaluated.  The barrel was free-floated with a LaRue Tactical handguard.  






A 10-shot group from this barrel fired using hand-loaded Sierra 52 grain MatchKings had an extreme spread of 0.98”.





Three 10-shot groups of the MK318 fired from the Colt 6721 barrel produced the following extreme spreads:

2.98”
2.85”
2.89”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 2.91”.  These three groups were also over-layed on each other to produce a 30-shot composite group with a mean radius of 0.82”.


The smallest 10-shot group of MK318 fired from the Colt 6721 barrel . . .






The third barrel used to evaluate the accuracy of MK318 was a 20” Colt HBAR with a 1:7” twist, chrome-lining and a NATO chamber.  The barrel is free-floated with a PRI handguard.





A 10-shot group from this barrel fired using hand-loaded 55 grain Sierra BlitzKings had an extreme spread of 1.18”.





Three 10-shot groups of the MK318 fired from the 20” HBAR had extreme spreads of:

2.70”
2.49”
3.24”

for a 10-shot group average extreme spread of 2.81”.  As before, the three 10-shot groups were over-layed on each other to form a 30-shot composite group that produced a mean radius of 0.91”.


The smallest 10-shot group of MK318 fired from the 20” HBAR . . .





A summary of the results from this evaluation are shown below.





Lastly, for the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience, here’s a pic of a sub-MOA group of the MK318 fired from the 16” Colt HBAR from 100 yards; a cherry-picked 3-shot group that is.







Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:39:52 PM EDT
[#38]
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I'm the opposite. I zero for my specialty ammo but shoot M193. If I'm just practicing or plinking, the m193 is great and fine.

My 77gr zero works out to 350 just fine with m193 on steel. (Never shot for groups that far though). My idea is that I would want the best ammo when I want to do important things so that's what the gun should be zeroed for. When I'm just practicing, I'll take m193 because it's good
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

My go to for plinking is Australian Outback SMKs. Great accuracy for me.

My rifles are zeroed for Black Hills though except my 16" SR15 that doesn't like it so it gets Speer. I'll probably go to FBI load after that

Mine are zeroed for M193 since that's 95% of the ammo I shoot in them.

I'm the opposite. I zero for my specialty ammo but shoot M193. If I'm just practicing or plinking, the m193 is great and fine.

My 77gr zero works out to 350 just fine with m193 on steel. (Never shot for groups that far though). My idea is that I would want the best ammo when I want to do important things so that's what the gun should be zeroed for. When I'm just practicing, I'll take m193 because it's good


Same. Zero with the 77gr TMKs and use 55gr for close stuff or if I’m just goofing around at distance.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:39:57 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:

Here you go... same price as M193 basically.

Wolf Gold on Ammoseek
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Show us on the box or on Wolf's website where the word "gold" appears anywhere with relation to that load.  Hint:  that's not Wolf Gold despite what online retailers claim.

...
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:47:44 PM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
I think the Hornady 75 HPBT is an underappreciated bullet.  It has a better BC than 77 SMK yet still lighter, meaning both faster AND better flight behavior.  Hornady had QC issues for a very long time, with a flyer in every box, for the longest time -   
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No, they didn't.  10-shot group at 100 yards with an extreme spread of 0.526 MOA.




....


Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:47:47 PM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:

IWI does not manufacture ammunition.

..
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Quoted:

Also, IMI, now known as IWI currently, is shiny mil-spec, if XM dull & scratched US cases are off-putting & shiny is preferred.

IWI does not manufacture ammunition.

..


I thought IMI changed to IWI?

The Ammo Oracle said something about Winchester making 5.56 for IMI, but I thought they did.

My Razoreye.net Ammo Oracle page has been dead for some time

?
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 9:48:33 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:

It still has random flyers, but I'm getting an average of 1.25 MOA out of the 75gr Hornady BTHP in the AAC loading. Without flyers, they're practically touching.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/523928/Screenshot_20240209-172637_Range_Buddy_j-3136560.JPG
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That's not the fault of the Hornady bullet.




....
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 10:03:00 PM EDT
[#43]
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Quoted:

Show us on the box or on Wolf's website where the word "gold" appears anywhere with relation to that load.  Hint:  that's not Wolf Gold despite what online retailers claim.

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Here you go... same price as M193 basically.

Wolf Gold on Ammoseek

Show us on the box or on Wolf's website where the word "gold" appears anywhere with relation to that load.  Hint:  that's not Wolf Gold despite what online retailers claim.

...


I apologize.  I didn't click on the individual links to go to the website(s).  You are correct, that the ammo descriptions are not right.  My bad.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 10:06:12 PM EDT
[#44]
Hmmm, I have tons of both but..... This thread took me down a YouTube rabbit hole. I've had in my head m855 sucks ass for at least 5 years, but watching all the gel tests and barrier tests vs m193 the m193 may be better but we might be splitting hairs. Seems to be a lot of well performing m855 on the market.

I also think 77g TMK is the new king, I need to pick up 500 rounds
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 10:12:02 PM EDT
[#45]
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Hmmm, I have tons of both but..... This thread took me down a YouTube rabbit hole. I've had in my head m855 sucks ass for at least 5 years, but watching all the gel tests and barrier tests vs m193 the m193 may be better but we might be splitting hairs. Seems to be a lot of well performing m855 on the market.

I also think 77g TMK is the new king, I need to pick up 500 rounds
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I haven't spent a bunch of time in Georgia, but it might not be worth it.

TMK is MOST DEFINITELY tits, but I have no use for it in Virginia. The benefits for longer ranges I won't encounter often. To say the opposite, if I was a Wyoming bro that's all I would shoot
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 10:12:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Also yeah m193 is a fantastic starting place
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 10:16:18 PM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:
It’s largely been replaced by 855a1. I haven’t seen any 855 in years.



It’s a superb round and a good choice.

Shame the usmc couldn’t keep it instead of more or less being forced to the a1



Stateside, deployment, or just for training to reduce wear on weapons?

Thanks for the info!
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I’ve looked a few times, can you still find 318 overruns on the market? I defintely missed the salad days of that stuff.
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 10:20:33 PM EDT
[#48]
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Quoted:

I haven't spent a bunch of time in Georgia, but it might not be worth it.

TMK is MOST DEFINITELY tits, but I have no use for it in Virginia. The benefits for longer ranges I won't encounter often. To say the opposite, if I was a Wyoming bro that's all I would shoot
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We may find ourselves on a long stretch of interstate or urban environment(eta or a farm with Maggie )when we become Rick Grimes. The TMK would perform as advertised at 400 out of my 11.5.... that's what makes it worth it in my fantasies
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 10:21:12 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:


I apologize.  I didn't click on the individual links to go to the website(s).  You are correct, that the ammo descriptions are not right.  My bad.
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The load you linked to is actually more accurate than Wolf Gold.

...
Link Posted: 2/21/2024 10:34:48 PM EDT
[#50]
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Quoted:


We may find ourselves on a long stretch of interstate or urban environment(eta or a farm with Maggie )when we become Rick Grimes. The TMK would perform as advertised at 400 out of my 11.5.... that's what makes it worth it in my fantasies
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Quoted:
Quoted:

I haven't spent a bunch of time in Georgia, but it might not be worth it.

TMK is MOST DEFINITELY tits, but I have no use for it in Virginia. The benefits for longer ranges I won't encounter often. To say the opposite, if I was a Wyoming bro that's all I would shoot


We may find ourselves on a long stretch of interstate or urban environment(eta or a farm with Maggie )when we become Rick Grimes. The TMK would perform as advertised at 400 out of my 11.5.... that's what makes it worth it in my fantasies

TMK is the best do it all load right now.

855 is meh. 193 is better. My cheap soft point loads are better than either.
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