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Posted: 6/5/2019 9:44:41 AM EDT
Hello to the Forum,
I am a German citizen and will spend some days in the US for holiday. I would like to buy some gun stuff and take it home in my suitcase (checked luggage). Now I know that this is a complicated issue with ITAR. What I thought was that it is no problem when the value of the goods is under 100$. But now I learned that this only applies for professional firearm dealers who already have a general ITAR certification. Now I am confused. How can I find our if some items I would like to buy are legal to take out of the country?

It is about the following items:
Pistol magazines (10rds)
PMAGS (10 rounds)
Safariland pistol Holster
Azula Leather pistol Holster
Blackhawk pistol magazine pouch
Saddle mount with picatinny rail for Remington 870 shotgun

Anyone has an idea on how I should proceed? (other than "forget it" of course;-)
Link Posted: 6/5/2019 11:23:03 AM EDT
[#1]
In for curiosity to see how this goes.

If none of those items are banned or prohibited in your county, I'd try shipping them home via Fed Ex, vs putting them in your checked luggage on the plane.

While I think all of the items you listed would be OK in checked baggage, I never trust what TSA might do in regards to Gun stuff.  
They could let if go or have a High Speed come apart and subject you to a back room, back door, full on cavity search...  

However, if you were a full fledged, legit, terrorist intending on doing damage they'd let you pass right though for fear of offending you.
Link Posted: 6/5/2019 11:33:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Hello to the Forum,
I am a German citizen and will spend some days in the US for holiday. I would like to buy some gun stuff and take it home in my suitcase (checked luggage). Now I know that this is a complicated issue with ITAR. What I thought was that it is no problem when the value of the goods is under 100$. But now I learned that this only applies for professional firearm dealers who already have a general ITAR certification. Now I am confused. How can I find our if some items I would like to buy are legal to take out of the country?

It is about the following items:
Pistol magazines (10rds)
PMAGS (10 rounds)
Safariland pistol Holster
Azula Leather pistol Holster
Blackhawk pistol magazine pouch
Saddle mount with picatinny rail for Remington 870 shotgun

Anyone has an idea on how I should proceed? (other than "forget it" of course;-)
View Quote
Ever watch locked up abroad? We do the same thing here for ITAR. Haha

Just use eBay, like all the other people avoiding ITAR. You won’t save money vs buying in person. Online prices are very hard to beat in most shops or stores.
Link Posted: 6/5/2019 12:21:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Some significant changes occurred to some ITAR items 4 months ago when some ITAR functions were moved from the US State Department to the Commerce Department.

I'm not sure, at this point, if anyone has a good enough understanding of the new rules to give you a definitive answer.

In fact, I'm not even sure what I just said is totally accurate.

Sorry I could not be more help.

https://blog.volkovlaw.com/2019/02/export-control-reform-major-changes-for-itar-regulations-for-firearms-industry/
Link Posted: 6/5/2019 12:22:56 PM EDT
[#4]
double post
Link Posted: 6/5/2019 12:23:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

However, if you were a full fledged, legit, terrorist intending on doing damage they'd let you pass right though for fear of offending you.
View Quote
Hahaha, thats very similar here in Germany. But unfortunately I cannot claim any minority privileges being a christian (middle) old white man;-)))

Ebay is not so good because of shipping cost. They are quite high for international sales and many sellers wont sell to you at all if youre from abroad.
Link Posted: 6/5/2019 1:27:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 6/6/2019 2:59:02 PM EDT
[#7]
It would be an ITAR violation for you to even have possession of ITAR restricted parts.

When testing part electronic parts for radiation sensitivity at cyclotrons in the USA we often had to
blank out test equipment and computer screens when non-USA citizen grad students came in the room.

We could not even talk about what we were doing with them present.

It was all covered by ITAR.

How we did it, why we are doing it, what the results are.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 11:34:05 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Hello to the Forum,
I am a German citizen and will spend some days in the US for holiday. I would like to buy some gun stuff and take it home in my suitcase (checked luggage). Now I know that this is a complicated issue with ITAR. What I thought was that it is no problem when the value of the goods is under 100$. But now I learned that this only applies for professional firearm dealers who already have a general ITAR certification. Now I am confused. How can I find our if some items I would like to buy are legal to take out of the country?

It is about the following items:
Pistol magazines (10rds)
PMAGS (10 rounds)
Safariland pistol Holster
Azula Leather pistol Holster
Blackhawk pistol magazine pouch
Saddle mount with picatinny rail for Remington 870 shotgun

Anyone has an idea on how I should proceed? (other than "forget it" of course;-)
View Quote
If it is on the US Munitions List, it is no go for you.

https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/?id=ddtc_public_portal_itar_landing

I would ship rather than deal with TSA searching and making their own determination.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 11:35:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Hahaha, thats very similar here in Germany. But unfortunately I cannot claim any minority privileges being a christian (middle) old white man;-)))

Ebay is not so good because of shipping cost. They are quite high for international sales and many sellers wont sell to you at all if youre from abroad.
View Quote
Other than the PMAGS, most of those items are not made in the USA. Buy from country of origin and have them shipped here like we do.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 8:11:31 AM EDT
[#10]
But there must be a way to determine if the items fall under ITAR regulation. Does anybody have a hint how to go about finding this out?

Maybe sending an email to the responsible agency would help. I tried this agency:  
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE - Directorate of Defense Trade Controls, but I dont know if it is the right one.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 8:33:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Safariland pistol Holster
Azula Leather pistol Holster
Blackhawk pistol magazine pouch

This stuff can be used with airsoft setups and that should be OK.

I travel regularly from the US to Hungary and mickey mouse stuff asking the state dept and ITAR as I told them they are for AIRsoft usage and never had issues.

the other stuff.. I don't know.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 3:39:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
But there must be a way to determine if the items fall under ITAR regulation. Does anybody have a hint how to go about finding this out?

Maybe sending an email to the responsible agency would help. I tried this agency:  
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE - Directorate of Defense Trade Controls, but I dont know if it is the right one.
View Quote
DEPARTMENT OF STATE had a couple of web sites you could look through.

Be warned they are written up by attorneys and assume a whole lot of knowledge on the part of a user.

There have been some changes in enforcement recently so the sites may not be good anymore.

There are little 'gotchas' in parts of the regulatory regime with phrases like 'or parts therefor.'

That would make ANY part that would fit a listed item a 'listed item.'

As a visitor you are not allowed to even view some ITAR parts.

Tread carefully.
Link Posted: 8/14/2019 11:04:48 AM EDT
[#13]
Doesn't Magpul have a manufacturer in Germany to make their PMAGs for Europe?

A real PMAG, but not Magpul PMAG

ETA: Oberland Arms
Link Posted: 8/14/2019 11:25:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Honestly, not much is going to happen to you if TSA sees it in your checked bags and notifies CBP.*

I'd be more concerned with Zoll finding it upon your arrival back in Germany.

*This is not be construed as legal advice.
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