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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:29:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Internet historian did a video about the Costa Concordia disaster recently. The captain of that ship gets most of the blame but the helmsman of that ship was apparently an Indonesian migrant worker who didn't really speak English or Italian. But he was cheap, so that's all that matters.
A minimum wage employee driving a multimillion dollar ship. What could possibly go wrong there? Shit like this is a good example why big corporations are all looking to become government monopolies. They wind up doing stupid stuff like that with very expensive consequences. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:29:18 PM EDT
[#2]
My company had that realization recently. Long time guy got an offer he couldn't refuse from a competitor. I got a 20% raise almost immediately.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:31:04 PM EDT
[#3]
It's even better when a seasoned employee leaves for more money, and the employer has to pay their replacement $10-15K more per year when the employee would have stayed for half that. The new employee may have experience, but zero experience in that exact position, so there will still be a learning curve.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:34:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: If your company is set up where key positions require retention...it might not be a bad idea to make sure those people are paid near the top of their pay scale in that industry. Sitting there with your dick in your hand each time someone quits for a better pay and scrambling for 6-10 months while an appropriate person is hired and trained can’t be more efficient than paying them to stay. I get that some jobs are set up to be entry level across all educations and skill sets and the expectation is to see a 2-5 year turnaround, but these aren’t key positions. I love it even more when the employer tries to match the competing offer...pay that amount in the first place so people in those roles don’t even begin to look for other employment. Welcome to most service depts. at auto dealerships. Because of the poor labor times paid by the manufacturers people are leaving right and left. Then the dealership owners think I will raise the labor rate for customer pay work so they loose those customers. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:37:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Welcome to most service depts. at auto dealerships. Because of the poor labor times paid by the manufacturers people are leaving right and left. Then the dealership owners think I will raise the labor rate for customer pay work so they loose those customers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If your company is set up where key positions require retention...it might not be a bad idea to make sure those people are paid near the top of their pay scale in that industry. Sitting there with your dick in your hand each time someone quits for a better pay and scrambling for 6-10 months while an appropriate person is hired and trained can’t be more efficient than paying them to stay. I get that some jobs are set up to be entry level across all educations and skill sets and the expectation is to see a 2-5 year turnaround, but these aren’t key positions. I love it even more when the employer tries to match the competing offer...pay that amount in the first place so people in those roles don’t even begin to look for other employment. Welcome to most service depts. at auto dealerships. Because of the poor labor times paid by the manufacturers people are leaving right and left. Then the dealership owners think I will raise the labor rate for customer pay work so they loose those customers. That explains why you see the toolboxes in back of trucks at dealerships.... 
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:37:29 PM EDT
[#6]
They don't care because they expect the other employees to pick up the slack.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:41:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's even better when a seasoned employee leaves for more money, and the employer has to pay their replacement $10-15K more per year when the employee would have stayed for half that. The new employee may have experience, but zero experience in that exact position, so there will still be a learning curve. Now that it’s illegal to fire/discipline employees discussing salary, it usually pisses off other employing key positions and they go elsewhere too. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:42:12 PM EDT
[#8]
I’ve been asked to participate in an effort at work to identify ways to increase employee retention. I said sure, no problem.
I’m currently in contact with another company about a position with them ...
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:43:22 PM EDT
[#9]
I was in this position at my last job. Got an offer for 30% more and told my boss. He said he wished he could match it but corporate wouldn't let him.
They've been through 3 people in my position since. Not including needing to pull people from other sites to keep the dumpster from reigniting. It would have been cheaper to give me the 30% and 100k bonus to stay. Had my boss over for Thanksgiving the next year. His hair had turned grey and he really didn't want to talk about it. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:43:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Hah. Every corporation views the employee salary as a bottomless pit of thirsty overhead.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:44:32 PM EDT
[#11]
I don't negotiate when I find a new position, I feel like it gives the employer an unfair advantage
I agree, they should make sure people aren't looking for new jobs in the first place |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:44:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Everytime I have left a company for more money they would always try to counter.
I usually start off and say "Before you make your counter offer let me tell you what I am getting from my new company, I am getting X salary and Y benefits" They never offer after that. Last time I got a 20% bump in salary and 25% added commission. The SVP who was a cheap bastard, thought I was overpaid as it was and didn't even bother to counter. It then took them 2 years to finally fill my open rec. They Even try to get a former colleague of mine to fill my old position by offering him less than HALF of his current salary. Yea talk about out of touch |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:45:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Companies that don't figure out compensation quickly get eaten by their competition.
Self resolving issue. As an employee, do your research going in. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:45:08 PM EDT
[#14]
very true
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:45:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve been asked to participate in an effort at work to identify ways to increase employee retention. I said sure, no problem. I’m currently in contact with another company about a position with them ... I sat in a meeting once and told people...it’s about $$$... they looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head. Team building exercises on people’s day off was the answer these MENSA members came up with
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:46:07 PM EDT
[#16]
I’ve seen this time and time again. Big corporation leadership are fucking clueless, have no clue how their company makes the widget or provides the service in which they get paid. They think about everything like the “Twinkie model” meaning the Twinkie can be made anywhere by anyone so get the cheapest labor you can. Shit tastes the same regardless is their belief....
Some industries are better some are worse but almost all companies above 1000 employees behave the same. Better get that Harvard MBA as CIO dontchaknow. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:46:17 PM EDT
[#17]
You will always get more pay and advancement by changing jobs
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:47:04 PM EDT
[#18]
The largest (by volume) s****u dealer in North America is in my city, and the oldest sign in the lot is the 'help wanted' sign.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:47:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't care because they expect the other employees to pick up the slack. In my (limited) experience |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:48:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't negotiate when I find a new position, I feel like it gives the employer an unfair advantage I agree, they should make sure people aren't looking for new jobs in the first place There is no such thing as fair...the highest bidder gets your labor. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:48:22 PM EDT
[#21]
I was always told never take the counter offer - if you were worth it, they should be giving it to you already.
As far as discussing salaries... some of us work for the gubmint and our salaries are available via public records request, and get requested every 9-15 months and published in some newspaper or online. So discussion of them has always been discouraged, but never against any rule. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:48:47 PM EDT
[#22]
We’re all just numbers. Seems as though companies ONLY care about the bottom line now whereas it wasn’t always that way in the past.
I tried to leave my current job for a new opportunity last year and it caught the executives completely off guard, they just threw a ton of money at me and told me I can’t leave (more less). I stayed as the money was more than I’d be making at the new opportunity but man, it’s such a shitty way to run a company. Just paying people as little as possible until they move on. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:49:12 PM EDT
[#23]
hire H1B from Pune India at half pay, who is incompetent but covers the diversety quotent Problem solved.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:49:46 PM EDT
[#24]
Probably twofold.
One, shortsightedness. Two, deadwood that can't be removed. When you have the CEO's brother in law, a couple of diversity hires or similar untouchable underperformers, you simply don't have the resources to retain people. Others have a "we are always hiring" mentality and consider their staff to be a liability rather then an asset. It is a hardwired mindset that is baffling for those who don't think that way (much like liberalism). |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:50:40 PM EDT
[#25]
For my organization at least, it’s a self-defeating cycle of poor strategic thinking.
-No room in the budget for above-average wages. -Top talent runs off. -Average talent does an average job covering down. -No surplus of revenue. Not enough profit. -No room in the budget for above-average wages. Do that every 6 months forever. I advocated for us to hire an outside sales guy for a CRAPload of money... because he could pull in literally millions of dollars. Costs too much. Next quarter: well under projections. Imagine that 
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:50:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Managers / executives too disconnected from regular operations to realize who is critical and which roles have the steepest learning curve.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:51:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I sat in a meeting once and told people...it’s about $$$... they looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head. Team building exercises on people’s day off was the answer these MENSA members came up with Team building and or company events on off days is a big thing around here too. I can just see the high fives and pats on the back in the executive meeting where that was decided on. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:51:59 PM EDT
[#28]
I was eligible for huge bonuses (greater than two FTEs) if I was able to limit employee payroll to a minimal %.
The other part is you get long time 9-5 non-motivated type employees who suck up resources you'd be better allocating to better people. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:52:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't negotiate when I find a new position, I feel like it gives the employer an unfair advantage I agree, they should make sure people aren't looking for new jobs in the first place Good strategy Never take the counter offer |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:53:08 PM EDT
[#30]
i had been with the same company for 12 years, was trying to find work in Michigan, but it was tough in Wisconsin. made the move with no job, and found work 2 months later as a contractor. crap benefits, but 40% more pay, and with my wife teaching, she gets good benefits so I will rough it for a bit
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:53:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Some companies, those usually run by the accountants, seem content to be the training ground for their competitors.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:53:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I sat in a meeting once and told people...it’s about $$$... they looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head. Team building exercises on people’s day off was the answer these MENSA members came up with  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:53:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They don't care because they expect the other employees to pick up the slack. This right here. And the more common excuse they flow up with is "you guys are already overpaid" yet managers and directors are all mid six figured and get 20+% bonuses. Basically if it's going to possibly make them lose that bonus they will avoid it at all costs and let the actual employees take the beating while they hide in their office. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:55:26 PM EDT
[#34]
I'm firmly convinced that most management and business owners, with regards to labor costs and retention, are just fucking retarded. Or, they hate their business and want it hurt it, like a teenage girl that cuts on herself...she doesn't even understand the self-loathing, but she does it to manage her own pain.
I'd honestly wager that the number of people in charge of employee pay that understand the cost of letting good people go over dollars is in the low single digits, given what I've seen in the marketplace. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:56:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The largest (by volume) s****u dealer in North America is in my city, and the oldest sign in the lot is the 'help wanted' sign. I know the exact place. Bunch of crooks over there. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:57:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That explains why you see the toolboxes in back of trucks at dealerships.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If your company is set up where key positions require retention...it might not be a bad idea to make sure those people are paid near the top of their pay scale in that industry. Sitting there with your dick in your hand each time someone quits for a better pay and scrambling for 6-10 months while an appropriate person is hired and trained can’t be more efficient than paying them to stay. I get that some jobs are set up to be entry level across all educations and skill sets and the expectation is to see a 2-5 year turnaround, but these aren’t key positions. I love it even more when the employer tries to match the competing offer...pay that amount in the first place so people in those roles don’t even begin to look for other employment. Welcome to most service depts. at auto dealerships. Because of the poor labor times paid by the manufacturers people are leaving right and left. Then the dealership owners think I will raise the labor rate for customer pay work so they loose those customers. That explains why you see the toolboxes in back of trucks at dealerships.... I worked at a dealership in sales and I was back in service one day when one of the techs went storming by yelling his head off, got in his car and went home. I asked the service manager the following Monday why the guy was back at work. He was like, "Oh, he quits all the time. We don't take it seriously unless he sends a truck to get his tools. He doesn't do that very often". One of the other guys said he had worked with him at another dealer and he quit all the time there too. Those big toolboxes often require a flatbed to get them home and he'd have to pay both ways when he went and apologized and got his job back a few days later. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:57:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Team building and or company events on off days is a big thing around here too. I can just see the high fives and pats on the back in the executive meeting where that was decided on. One of the many reasons I will forever stay hourly. It stopped being mandatory for me when I put in a time card and when they rejected it asked them how the MN department of labor would view a mandatory work event being unpaid for an hour employee. Wouldn’t you know...I got paid for it and all off-site team building exercises were changed to optional for hourly employees. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:57:59 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I sat in a meeting once and told people...it’s about $$$... they looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head. Team building exercises on people’s day off was the answer these MENSA members came up with Yessss. We had a dept meeting about that shit once . I said idgaf about spending MORE time with coworkers on days off. Wanna make me happier , pay me more . Bosses : 
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:58:10 PM EDT
[#39]
It comes down to if the management agrees that you're worth retaining.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:58:29 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Internet historian did a video about the Costa Concordia disaster recently. The captain of that ship gets most of the blame but the helmsman of that ship was apparently an Indonesian migrant worker who didn't really speak English or Italian. But he was cheap, so that's all that matters. A minimum wage employee driving a multimillion dollar ship. What could possibly go wrong there? Shit like this is a good example why big corporations are all looking to become government monopolies. They wind up doing stupid stuff like that with very expensive consequences. Worth the watch  The Cost of Concordia |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:59:36 PM EDT
[#41]
We lost 22 people in a staff of 70 within 12 months.
We had people walk out of job interviews once salary and compensation come out for our NP and PA positions. Some quick fixes proper us up, but no where near enough for long term health. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:01:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Wage compression is real.
Best way for financial advancement is employment with a industry competitor. Networking is a critical skill. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:01:53 PM EDT
[#43]
I was once told that payroll is the only controllable expense a company has.
I've always suspected that was wrong. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:02:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Many companies have the attitude that "everyone is replaceable". But they forget to ask "at what cost". Losing the knowledge that someone had from 10 years of working there, knowing the ins and outs of every system, and knowing why those ins and outs existed in the first place is not something you can just buy. The loss of knowledge and efficiency is rarely considered when deciding to keep people.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:02:27 PM EDT
[#45]
At my old work place they used to look at warehouse/operations people as if they were disposable...how hard can it be to hire warehouse people who pick, pack and ship orders?!?!?!
They were looking to save some operational expense so they fired a 47 y/o guy in warehouse who worked there for 20+ years. He knew and had experience in everything about the operations and could fill any position as needed. He was paid about $42k per year with maybe $2k bonus. They replaced him with a $12/hr kid who promptly made some serious mistakes on orders which lead to loosing their single largest customer (annually $700k revenue) within 5 months. They were going to fire the kid but before that happened he claimed leg and back injury while at work and promptly filed long term disability and sued. They ended up hiring 2 new people to replace the kid which ended up costing more than the original guy. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:03:04 PM EDT
[#46]
One of my peers in another division just quit. She was excellent at her job, now we are heading into Spring..we are in hvac sales in s fla. This is a very technical position, you have to know all our brands, not just one like Rheem. Also bi lingual for sure, all she wanted was a few $ more per hour. Nope, good bye. It takes a month minimum to get hired by us once u get your conditional offer ...so this will cost the company huge $$$$$
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:03:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Right out of college a girl friend of mine jumped job to job in graphic arts. She was pretty good on a Mac back in 1995. Anyhow she was able to more than double her salary in 5 years. Had she stayed in her first job she might have gotten a 2-3% raise ever year.
I've seen this all my life in sales. As soon as the sales force has an AMAZING year, corporate finds a way to raise the bar and cut payouts. It usually backfires. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:03:43 PM EDT
[#48]
I was once told that they couldn't give my guy a promotion because it would be too big of a pay raise.
I tried to explain that his replacement would easily cost what his new salary was and MIGHT be as good. No Bueno. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:03:49 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was always told never take the counter offer - if you were worth it, they should be giving it to you already. I disagree with that part in bold because sometimes employers are not up on current market rates and need to see there is an actual offer on the table before they will believe it. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:04:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I sat in a meeting once and told people...it’s about $$$... they looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head. Team building exercises on people’s day off was the answer these MENSA members came up with Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’ve been asked to participate in an effort at work to identify ways to increase employee retention. I said sure, no problem. I’m currently in contact with another company about a position with them ... I sat in a meeting once and told people...it’s about $$$... they looked at me like I had horns growing out of my head. Team building exercises on people’s day off was the answer these MENSA members came up with For me its about dollars paid per hour worked. Everything else is secondary. It is insane the number of people who are salaried and found themselves working 20+ more hours a week following COVID for not a penny more of compensation. Massive turn over in my industry right now, like above 30%. "Leadership" doesnt get it. The last guy who quit was salaried but was still required to turn in a time sheet. He hadnt worked over 80 hours / week for months, in a position that used to be 40 hours a week. |
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