Some people who approach this problem have never fired a gun in tight quarters.

Pistols are loud. Shotguns are very loud. Rifles are very loud.
Pistol bullets are small but poke nice holes. Shotguns poke lots of holes. Rifles poke really nice holes.
Pistols take a lot of aiming. Shotguns take more aiming than people think. Rifles take more aiming than people think.
Pistols are more likely to leave living plaintiffs. Shotguns done right divorce soul from body most rikitik. Rifles are good at not leaving living plaintiffs if they hit the right place.

Fight with what you fight best with and quit worrying about it. That it's a Ruger MkII or a S&W 29 or your favorite Metric FAL makes no difference.

Get a bit philosophically old school about it. GD has already convinced you that your choice is wrong and you are therefore dead. Good. In their own silly way, GD is channeling Miyamoto Musashi. Approach the coming battle as if you are already dead and just get the job done. If you happen to survive, great. Revel in every new day after the battle as if it were gravy.

So shoot them more and keep shooting them.

Getting shot with armor still hurts and most people react badly to getting hurt.

This right here answers it all

If I'm going to use a long gun for defense it is going to be in a long gun caliber. If I wanted pistol ballistics I would just use a pistol.

Standard factory triggers. If there’s a difference, it’s minimal.

That’s kinda my thinking also.  I’ll keep the PCC at our winter home where it’s very unlikely I’d have to engage at any distance of greater than 50 yards and keep the AR pistol at our small farm in VA where there’s a significant chance threats could come with four legs and outdoors.

Cobra derringer in  loaded with 38 Caliber 148 Grain Lead HBWC .. anything more is overkill.

10$ says a BMG miss evacuates the room, as well as the perp's bowels.  I know sound isn't a reliable deterrent...but 50 indoors is probably the exception.

Yep. If a PCC is what he shoots well, then op has the best gun for his circumstances.

I can’t imagine a pcc is more or less accurate than .223/5.56 in the same platform but if it is, it is.

If 9mm/.45 is sufficient for self/home defense out of a pistol it’s sufficient out of a carbine. Regardless of pcc/rifle carbine opinions.

That sounds like a good sig line.

If it's what you shoot the best, then party on, Garth. Just be aware of the possibility that home invaders may be wearing soft armor which may defeat your pistol rounds. Not a particularly likely scenario.

A controlled triple tap of 9mm or whatever will ruin anybody's day.

The penetration is a non issue. XM193 5.56 rounds actually penetrate LESS than shotgun and pistol rounds through common housing materials.

Basically. Now that being said I don't know how big your home is or how inaccurate you could possibly be that you're missing at house ranges with a .223, but hitting with a 9mm will always be more effective than missing with .223.

Guns are icky but I keep a wiffleball bat next to my bed.  I'm sure that will scare off any intruders.

I really hope to never be put in that position,  but if it happens,  I want the best tool to defend my family.  Rifle and can is ideal for me, but pcc is ac solid choice.   Probably not grabbing a break action.

I’d say, use what you’re most comfortable with.

This.

I think you are fine picking a 9mm. I'd suggest working up a better CQB set up in an intermediate rifle cartridge if you are going 9mm purely based on ergonomics, even should you still want the 9mm for home defense.

my ideal HD set up is a 11.5-12.5" Ar with a 12" handguard.

My idea pistol caliber AR set up has a 8.5" barrel and 9" handguard.

Joe Xiden said you just need to fire two blasts from your balcony

Defending your home = combat, and combat is the ultimate game of "oneupmanship".

I'm solid in the 9mm "PCC" crowd.  A braced MPX-K, Scorpion, or Stribog (I've run a bunch thru all 3) with light and T-1 or other nice optic works very well for me out to 75 yards, and does just superbly at those "inside the house" distances.  Better balanced, very compact, smaller / shorter then any AR pistol, easier to move around with, and nowheres near as loud nor as much fire-ball as any 5.56 "pistol".  And PCC are simply extremely handy, easy to shoot weapons.  These are all reasons all sorts of special ops outfits have run "PCC" in building-assault operations for only the last 50 - 60 years or so.

We are talking "Home defense" here, guys. NOT going on a military expedition against some fort or enemy stronghold.  We are talking busting someone who is trying to get into your home and wreck mayhem on you and yours.  We are NOT talking about trying to engage from some set position some approaching armed force at rifle distances.  We are talking addressing that "bump downstairs in the dark of night", NOT responding to the local militia call-up. We are engaging a close-in threat in order to protect your life, NOT trying to engage distant targets running off into the darkness.

That PCC that you are comfy with and can grab and put 30 "anti-invader" pills into readiness with a nice bright light and a CQB optic is a superior tool for the inside and close-proximity night work of the "home invader scenario".

And why does anyone think that armor - hard or soft - is likely to show up on that home-invader?  How many times has that actually ever happened?  I cannot readily identify any such reported case happening in my state (AZ) - ever. Home-invaders - even those with really violent intentions, are NOT Navy SEALS, SAS, GSG, or any other hi-tech, professional, super-trained, armored assault team performing a planned mission.  They are, simply put, fools.  I'm not saying that it CANNOT happen. But home-invaders are generally fools. And as for wearing armor?  Give me a break.  Wear all the plates and padding that you want when you arrive unbidden in my house.  I promise that I'll aim fairly carefully.  I actually PRACTICE around the thought that someone MAY be wearing armor when they arrive.  30 pills - even plain old 115gr FMJ - will be available and deployed "en-mass" to test out just how well that armor protects hands, arms, heads, faces, necks, elbows, knees, ankles, feet. And I won't check after each shot to see if it worked or not before touching off another. And for all those who think that they need a 5.56 rifle to do in a home-invader... Again, we are talking close-in.  A bunch of well-placed 9 will do just fine. Only a fool or a very dedicated super-trooper with a very specific mission enters into an unknown building to assault its unknown occupants. And no "super trooper" is likely to be assaulting my house, and if some do, I'll see them with my bright light and promptly yield them the floor... That leaves likely only the fools.  And I'm reasonably good with a PCC and confident that I can successfully deal with fools.  Even armored ones.    

The bottom line here is that you should by all means run the gun that you do best with and are most comfortable with.  Whatever gun you choose to run in "HD", the real key to success is to make sure of your target and engage it like you mean business.

Agrees in IWI TS12!
It ain’t your grandpappy’s single shot 16ga Fudd gun that is fo sho!

FN509 with RMR is no slouch either.

Username checks out.

But seriously, don't do this. Your and your family's safety comes first over the off minute chance that your round penetrates the walls and hits a neighbor. You need to stop your threat as quickly as possible. Also, look at YouTube videos on these common wall penetration myths.

And to your question directly op...


Practice more with the superior caliber. I'm a badass with a .22lr, but it's not worth the negatives.

Just my 2 cents.

PCCs that do not have some sort of delayed system are pointless IMO. You are often getting the same or in some instances more felt recoil than you would out of an AR. The exceptions to this are guns like the MP5, MPX, Banshee, etc that have a gas or roller delayed blow back system. For me though, for HD my go to is the Beretta 1301 Tactical. Nine rounds of 12ga 8 pellet low recoil flight control 00 is devastating in the HD arena. My plan is not to try to secure the house. We don’t have kids so we are in the bedroom with our two battle pugs. My plan is to camp the hallway to the bed room to the top of the stairs. Anything that tries to make it up the stairs is fucked. Since all my shots will be low, over penetration chances are lessened.

<- LE firearms instructor

I have many guns and I'm comfortable using any of them.

I keep a full-size 9mm with light handy, and that's what I grab for 95% of "interesting stimuli" or whatever while home.
Reason being I'm more likely to need a free hand than to do any shooting. I'm also super confident in my pistol skills (although this doesn't amplify ballistics obviously).

But if I was disturbed and knew immediately that the problem required shooting, I'm grabbing a SMG or 5.56mm carbine.

Whatever works best for you is probably what you should be using.

This is why we practice pelvis shots.

Dude, you never shoot a guy in the dick!

Dang adrenaline must've made me pull the shot low.

In seriousness though, if you turn someone's pelvic girdle into powder they're nigh certain to sit right down on their ass regardless of if they're wearing armor, on drugs, or for whatever reason COM hits aren't stopping them in their tracks.

I prefer a controlled quinquage-tap;

34 rounds of 9mm gold dots in something you shoot well.  I'd be more worried about being sure it is dead nuts reliable than being under gunned.

But, I don't live in Brazil or Russia where I have to be concerned about a 5 man team in full body armor showing up to get my air fryer.

Do some reading on terminal ballistics and read reports from ER doctors and coroners.

Most people survive handgun shootings.

Not many people survive rifle shootings.

PCC’s are fun and more accurate than a handgun, but in the end it’s still a pistol caliber.

This is what I just did. I have two CX4 carbines set up with lights, holosun 510C optics and slings. They are so superior in handling to my 16” AR, and so much easier to get hits it’s a true eye opener. But, the #1 advantage of the CX4’s over the AR is that the wife is 1000% better and more comfortable with it. I have a 92X type G on the way for the pistol backup, and already have plenty of 30 and 20 round mags. I’m retiring my 92FS due to no light rail. I’m really happy with this setup, and totally sold on the common mag strategy.

Either will do in the home defense role.  It’s highly unlikely that a home invader will think “meh, he’s only shooting me with a PCC.  I’ll stick around and see how this turns out.”

Do you really shoot the PCC measurably better at HD distances?

IIRC the beretta mags are better than the glock mags but I don't have a lot of experience with either one.   People worry about invaders with body armor but 1) the odds of that are pretty negligible and 2) getting shot in the legs or face will stop pretty much anyone.

Rifle rounds do a hell of a lot better job than pistol rounds against non-armored targets as well...

Home invasions in general are not my top concern in my AO...but bad guys ARE starting to wear body armor a bit more.

https://www.wandtv.com/news/home-invader-arrested-wearing-body-armor-carrying-multiple-guns/article_7273d7ec-6a04-11ea-a1f1-f32b21742f58.html

https://www.vvng.com/6-suspects-with-guns-body-armor-arrested-after-home-invasion-robbery-in-victorville/


If there was only a caliber that had a mild blast, mild recoil, worked great of short barrels, was designed to be used in the AR platform, and delivered a .30 caliber round with more punch that both 5.56 and 9mm.  Even better there was fragmenting round for it that won't go through every house on the block..on and that was an expanding also available that punches though everything.   Hmmmmmm....

If there is really a significant accuracy difference in favor of the PCC, which there shouldn't be for guns this similar, then you should consider other factors. Mainly your eye and ear protection. As that sounds like a classic flinch response from the louder gun with much higher muzzle pressure.

While a can might be a solution, the easiest solution is to obtain proper ear pro for this application, which is high reduction ratio cups contoured for rifle shooting. And goggle style eye pro. The same kit professionals use. It will take two or three seconds to don and if in your home security plan those 3 seconds could make a difference for the worse, you need to address those failures before anything kit related.

Also, you need to understand that the features or properties that make a long gun easy to shoot for accuracy in an untimed (or long timed) string of fire on a range are not that relevant to a HD situation. You will not be carrying the gun for a march or keeping it pointed or at high ready without a supported position for any length of time. You obtain no benefit from having a light gun and take all the penalties that come with it (in terms of recoil control).

A HD rifle should not be an SBR. You want a longer barrel and a heavier weapon. The weight is not a disadvantage when you will not be carrying it anywhere. You should have a sling though to enable easier manipulation of objects with the support hand or with two hands.

It should also be noted that with a rifle (and proper ear pro) you can use an effective muzzle brake (more effective than the PCC) that will also improve your accuracy/speed. Most PCCs also use straight blow back and have a much heavier BCG than a properly tuned AR15 with rifle gas and lightened BCG. The PCC recoil impulse can actually be much worse for accuracy/speed.

The real comparison should be made between a normal/heavy profile rifle that is extremely easy to shoot fast and accurately, and then a PCC. In that comparison the PCC is dog shit even before comparing any ballistics (which favor the rifle even more now that it uses a proper length barrel and uses the gases from the longer cartridge much more effectively).

A hit with a PCC is superior to a miss with a rifle.

Might  want to delete this pic dude.

that configuration you have is   a no no

I'd say more like 160 years.

In the real world a rifle doesn't have any significant advantage over a PCC or a shotgun. People here, on a forum dedicated to a particular flavor of rifle happen to favor that rifle. Nor can you dismiss ARFCOMs favorite hobby: tactical LARPing and COSPLAY, which of course favors that particular rifle as well.

In combat, a soldier needs a weapon that will work at any distance at which they might reasonably need to fight. Which is why we give them rifles. The same applies to homeowners and everyone else. They need weapons that will work at the range at which the fight might take place. For the soldier that range is measured in hundreds of yards and self defense considerations are not an issue. For the homeowner that range is almost certainly with tens of yards, with the typical encounter range more easily measured in feet, and justifying self defense is absolutely a consideration.

At these distances a PCC or shotgun is perhaps perfect, as overpenetration with a rifle is absolutely an issue many homeowners need to consider.

Not to quibble, but have you considered other reasons WHY this might be? For example...

Most people shot with handguns are shot by criminals using whatever ammo they can get their hands on -- probably, for the most part, 9mm ball ammo. The typical street thug isn't hitting the range and practicing, nor is he rocking the latest high-tech wonder round, and if the many videos I have watched are any indication he probably isn't even aiming.

So perhaps it's not a fair point. Perhaps well directed fire, using premium ammunition, at the greater velocities carbines offer, is an entirely different beast than ball ammo from some thug's Hi-Point or Jensen.

Yes, getting old does suck, and I feel your pain. That pretty much cements the fact that you should stick with what feels and shoots the best.

Not if the guy is wearing body armor.

I am in the "use what you shoot best" group.

But I would figure out why you shoot the PCC better. 5.56 always trumps 45 ACP.

I use my 16 inch with m193. It is what I shot well and know is reliable.

I have a .300 pistol in the safe but it's new and don't have confidence in it yet and with the ammo situation it seems like it will stay in the safe for some time.

Now everyone listen up, THIS is how you derp.

Rifle rounds don't have a significant real-world advantage over pistol rounds?  Really?  

Dammit, I need a suppressor for my AR-9