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Posted: 1/22/2021 12:47:05 AM EDT
[#1]
It relates only to gains on your Capital. Capital is spare money that we use to make more money. Say you invested in P-Mags, they cost you $12.95 ea. Then in some crazy, twisted and unforeseen event you able to double your money and sell them for $25.00 ea. You owe a tax on the profit (capital gain) that you made.
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Posted: 1/22/2021 12:49:06 AM EDT
[#2]
okay this would be far worse for a property investor than a stock investor.
since taxing unrealized gains is a nightmare on illiquid assets which property is, you can sell your share's immediately to realize the gain and you can also sell only part of your shares, this makes it easier to deal with the MTM aspect of this accounting practice. This is not the case with property where you have to sell the whole asset or find the money some where else. I know a rental person will be along shortly to claim he'll just pass the cost onto his renters, how ever these people who are proposing this know you will do that so they would include some kind of rent control to stop you from doing it. If you want to know what the democrat's are going to do go look overseas at democrat controlled shit holes a good example is the peoples socialist republic of New Zealand, they have been trying to tax unrealized gains on rental properties for a while there too and as with everything shithole democrats propose they will eventually get it done. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 12:50:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if i put all my assets into bitcoin, and i dotn trade it and then i have un realized capital gains...then theres no way the govt can touch it or seize anything right? since they dont have my private keys? you go to jail until you give them your private keys the tax man gets paid |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 12:50:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This topic really brought ‘em out. Amazing to see several people voraciously defending the idea. At least one of which even claims to be “upper middle class” LOL.  How can anyone reach adulthood without developing the ability to calculate secondary effects? Because Idiocracy was a documentary. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 12:52:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The idea of a mark-to-market taxation is that the govt wants its money *now* instead of waiting to collect it when you retire and start pulling out of the account. So instead of being taxed later at the lower rate during retirement (the purpose of those accounts) they can force taxation during your higher earning years at higher rates. Honestly if they start doing that then there’s little reason to put money into those tax-deferred accounts and the resulting drag on equity markets will be a disaster. Once the economy turns turtle again, they will change it to mark to model to keep getting a vig. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 4:11:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The other move is going to be going after your school districts tax revenue by putting all districts in your state into a fund and then flowing money from the well off communities with good schools into the shit areas with shit schools, the end result being shit education across the board I think Robin Hood finally ended. But now we will have enough debt to never be a rich school again. I think our debt level is 50k per student or something like that. (about 13 million in debt with approximately 200 students). Our school is the last good remaining draw to our town - so voters decided to go all in that last bet. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 4:49:31 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: she is so clueless on how the economy really works it is scary. Biden’s whole term will be about social justice and climate. They will cloak their actions under the guise of fairness and doing what’s right. Make no mistake it is wealth redistribution. It is consolidating the power in the hands that have it. She knows exactly how the economy works. This is a deliberate act. Remember the proposal to take the property of the deceased that should go to the dead’s heirs? What does the government want with family businesses or land? They want to give it to those who “deserve” it. Again it is “fair” if viewed as socially just and wealth redistribution. All those self proclaimed republicans who endorsed Biden, should be thrown out of the party. The Bushes come to mind. There are others. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 5:03:19 AM EDT
[#8]
They are clueless.
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Posted: 1/22/2021 5:08:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are clueless. No. They know what they are doing. They are evil. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 5:20:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The founding fathers would be [CoC Violation]-ing folks about now. your right, too many have too much to lose right now, but that will change soon. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 5:51:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: ...Also, If my taxable assets go from 100,000 to 200,000 one year, and I pay my 15,000$ in taxes on my earnings, then the next year the market dives and my account goes back down to 100,000, is the government going to pay me back? LOL Quoted: ...I buy stock X for $20/ea. It appreciates to $25 and is there whenever taxes are assessed. I now pay taxes on the $5/ea gain. Next year it takes a dive and I sell at my purchase price. I've made no money on the investment, but still paid capital gains taxes, resulting in a net loss. These are real concerns. Do they suggest we get a credit if our investments turn out to be losses? No. They want us to reward the government for our wise decisions, but they want us to assume all risk if we choose poorly. This will only discourage people from investing in any tax-deferred options. Quoted: ...assume you are retired on fixed income. You saved your entire life, and your house is free and clear. Now say we have 10% inflation. That means basically your house will be worth about 10% more. Your only source of income is fixed, and it is what you live on. How do you pay the tax on the imaginary appreciation of your house? This already happens every time the county does a tax assessment on my house, and everyone else's. Our property taxes increase. We never know how much it's going to be, until it's due. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 6:59:03 AM EDT
[#12]
So it will be like real estate property tax.
Every year I'm paying taxes on unrealized gains on my home |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:03:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i noted with interest your clickbait thread title. a 401k -- like an tradIRA, 403b, and similar vehicles -- is a tax-advantaged container which buffers taxes on held investments until a later date, when presumably the account owner is in a more advantageous tax situation. explain now how "taxing unrealized gains" would affect securities held inside such a tax-advantaged container. go slowly and use small words so i can understand completely.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:03:41 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: you go to jail until you give them your private keys the tax man gets paid Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: if i put all my assets into bitcoin, and i dotn trade it and then i have un realized capital gains...then theres no way the govt can touch it or seize anything right? since they dont have my private keys? you go to jail until you give them your private keys the tax man gets paid Uhh I forgot my keys Free housing and food sounds good though |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:09:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s fairly easy to make it work for securities that are traded on an open market like stocks or commodities, but how is this going to work with real estate and other less liquid items like artwork or vintage cars or any other asset that people pay capital gains tax on when they sell? Are they going to make you get your items appraised yearly, basically marking to market these items every year for tax purposes? Lookback tax/penalty when the gain is realized. See for instance the Wyden Plan from Senate Finance here: https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Treat%20Wealth%20Like%20Wages%20RM%20Wyden.pdf That plan only does the tax for income over $1mm or assets over $10mm, but conceptually it's the same for everyone. Any property that is not in markets is hard to value until the sale and gain is realized, but Gov always wants a bigger cut to bleed us all dry. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:09:39 AM EDT
[#16]
I am predicting a small tax on the backend on Roths also. Very small at first. It will be portrayed as making the rich pay their fair share. Paid when taxes were lower and that isn’t fair
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:21:21 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am predicting a small tax on the backend on Roths also. Very small at first. It will be portrayed as making the rich pay their fair share. Paid when taxes were lower and that isn’t fair It's always portrayed as the "rich" paying their fair share. Biden loved to use the 400k mark as "rich" during the campaign. The reality is anyone paying their own way is what they really consider "rich", and they hate us. There's no way anyone could be self sustaining and not be on government assistance without having ripped off someone else. Time for some social and economic justice to correct these sins of the deplorables. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:23:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll give it a shot. They will tax all things as soon as they can. This. It will kill the economy. Everybody’s extra money every month will be going to higher taxes, higher gas prices, and everything else. I bet they tax every cent of inheritance now. Sad thing, most taxes never get repealed. Just added on. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:28:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Can someone smarter than me explain to me what this means?
I’m just a dumbass electrician that makes a good living and has a really nice 401k. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:38:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Socialism has always created disincentives to success. Punishing people who own their homes or who saved for retirement or who built a business is a natural extension of the fundamental concept of socialism, reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator. Success is theft.
This shouldn't surprise anyone. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:42:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can someone smarter than me explain to me what this means? I’m just a dumbass electrician that makes a good living and has a really nice 401k. Biden makes you pay taxes on imaginary money you never had for “justice.” They make up the imaginary amount randomly. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:42:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ahh, because i don't know, so I posed the question. If I could explain it, then I wouldn't need to ask. JFC. I was wondering if the "unrealized" was a method to get into your tax advantaged container. Have you learned nothing? You are not allowed to 'wonder' about anything. You must know the answer to your question before posting said question. Learning is weakness. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:50:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it will be like real estate property tax. Every year I'm paying taxes on unrealized gains on my home No, it will be another tax on your property. You'll pay your increased property tax AND you'll pay a tax on the new assessment value increase. Hers a random thought I had. I'll create a leasing company that owns my home, my vacation property and the building my business is based in. Then I'll rent those properties from that business. The taxes will result in a loss. Then I'll deduct that loss personally as the owner if the leasing company. Perhaps the leasing company will be "managed" by my wife from our home, so part of our home is deductible too. I'd have to talk to a tax advisor to make sure that is legal, but thats the kind of thing rich folks will do. Do you have a few million is realestae to do that with? Rich folks do. It might not be legal, but that's the kind of thing that happens when you get cute and try to tax the rich. They find ways around it and the middle class ends up getting drilled. I'm so tired of seeing this over and over and watching them trick the middle class into thinking they won't end up with the tax. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:01:48 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, it will be another tax on your property. You'll pay your increased property tax AND you'll pay a tax on the new assessment value increase. Hers a random thought I had. I'll create a leasing company that owns my home, my vacation property and the building my business is based in. Then I'll rent those properties from that business. The taxes will result in a loss. Then I'll deduct that loss personally as the owner if the leasing company. Perhaps the leasing company will be "managed" by my wife from our home, so part of our home is deductible too. I'd have to talk to a tax advisor to make sure that is legal, but thats the kind of thing rich folks will do. Do you have a few million is realestae to do that with? Rich folks do. It might not be legal, but that's the kind of thing that happens when you get cute and try to tax the rich. They find ways around it and the middle class ends up getting drilled. I'm so tired of seeing this over and over and watching them trick the middle class into thinking they won't end up with the tax. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So it will be like real estate property tax. Every year I'm paying taxes on unrealized gains on my home No, it will be another tax on your property. You'll pay your increased property tax AND you'll pay a tax on the new assessment value increase. Hers a random thought I had. I'll create a leasing company that owns my home, my vacation property and the building my business is based in. Then I'll rent those properties from that business. The taxes will result in a loss. Then I'll deduct that loss personally as the owner if the leasing company. Perhaps the leasing company will be "managed" by my wife from our home, so part of our home is deductible too. I'd have to talk to a tax advisor to make sure that is legal, but thats the kind of thing rich folks will do. Do you have a few million is realestae to do that with? Rich folks do. It might not be legal, but that's the kind of thing that happens when you get cute and try to tax the rich. They find ways around it and the middle class ends up getting drilled. I'm so tired of seeing this over and over and watching them trick the middle class into thinking they won't end up with the tax. The wealthy will be least affected. They have their foundations and charities to avoid taxes |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:08:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i noted with interest your clickbait thread title. a 401k -- like an tradIRA, 403b, and similar vehicles -- is a tax-advantaged container which buffers taxes on held investments until a later date, when presumably the account owner is in a more advantageous tax situation. explain now how "taxing unrealized gains" would affect securities held inside such a tax-advantaged container. go slowly and use small words so i can understand completely. Its not, its a bid to force a low cost sell off of investment property. They hate landlords. This would be the end of that. When interest rates sky rocket to keep inflation from running away they will use the opportunity to say "we can cut the national debt by nationalizing 401ks" which will allow low interest rates again. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:10:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Not a tax lawyer, but here is the general idea:
When you buy stock, and it goes up, you do not “realize” the gain until you sell it. So when you sell the stock, you compare the price you bought it at (your basis) to what you sell it for, and the difference is your income, which is then taxed. You can hold stock without selling it for a long time, and that allows you to avoid taxes for a long time. Does not have anything to do with whether the stock is in an IRA/401(k). |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:16:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, it will be another tax on your property. You'll pay your increased property tax AND you'll pay a tax on the new assessment value increase. Hers a random thought I had. I'll create a leasing company that owns my home, my vacation property and the building my business is based in. Then I'll rent those properties from that business. The taxes will result in a loss. Then I'll deduct that loss personally as the owner if the leasing company. Perhaps the leasing company will be "managed" by my wife from our home, so part of our home is deductible too. I'd have to talk to a tax advisor to make sure that is legal, but thats the kind of thing rich folks will do. Do you have a few million is realestae to do that with? Rich folks do. It might not be legal, but that's the kind of thing that happens when you get cute and try to tax the rich. They find ways around it and the middle class ends up getting drilled. I'm so tired of seeing this over and over and watching them trick the middle class into thinking they won't end up with the tax. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So it will be like real estate property tax. Every year I'm paying taxes on unrealized gains on my home No, it will be another tax on your property. You'll pay your increased property tax AND you'll pay a tax on the new assessment value increase. Hers a random thought I had. I'll create a leasing company that owns my home, my vacation property and the building my business is based in. Then I'll rent those properties from that business. The taxes will result in a loss. Then I'll deduct that loss personally as the owner if the leasing company. Perhaps the leasing company will be "managed" by my wife from our home, so part of our home is deductible too. I'd have to talk to a tax advisor to make sure that is legal, but thats the kind of thing rich folks will do. Do you have a few million is realestae to do that with? Rich folks do. It might not be legal, but that's the kind of thing that happens when you get cute and try to tax the rich. They find ways around it and the middle class ends up getting drilled. I'm so tired of seeing this over and over and watching them trick the middle class into thinking they won't end up with the tax. Wouldn't you lose your primary house tax advantage [business or secondary house property taxes tend to be more as they are taxed at a higher rate] if you did that? |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:34:03 AM EDT
[#28]
This type of tax treatment already exists for bonds sold at less than par value. A good example is the US TIPS. As the security value increases, the increase in value is taxed each year as interest income even though the bond may not mature for decades. For example, if a TIPS bought in 2011 that matures in 2041 had the value increase from $1015 to $1028 in 2020, $13 of interest is taxable in the 2020 tax year even though the bond will not mature (owner realizes gains) for another two decades. Since it is taxable as interest in the year the value change accrued, losing money (if the bond value dropped by $15) does not result in lower taxable income. TIPS are guaranteed to never mature at less than face value, but it is possible to pay taxes on interest never realized if the security matured at par.
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:38:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so if they add to our tax liability for unrealized capital gains, will we also get to deduct from our tax liability for unrealized capital losses? if they add to our tax liability for unrealized capital gains in a given tax year, does that increase our basis in that asset when we finally sell it, thus reducing the realized capital gain upon sale -- and thus reducing the tax liability? Probably. For the first year. But then the economy will tank, and some billionaire will have incredible losses. News articles will run non stop articles about how Elon Musk is paid billions for his unrealized losses in the middle of an economic collapse, and really that isn’t fair to all the poor people. And people are idiots, so they’ll eat it up and some law will be passed to prevent it from happening again. I’m honestly shocked that anyone here is actually defending this. Is there any country that does this? |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:40:40 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can someone smarter than me explain to me what this means? I’m just a dumbass electrician that makes a good living and has a really nice 401k. It doesn't mean anything about your 401k, that's just speculation She briefly mentions taxing your non tax advantaged investments each year, whether you actually sold anything or not Retirement accounts are a very significant part of the stock market, so people jump to conclusions, but it's honestly not too far fetched If you don't rely on the govt, they call you rich, and they want your money |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:44:14 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they tax income you haven't realized, how hard is it to believe that the tax advantaged accounts are next? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is an "unrealized" capital gains tax a backdoor into our 401k's?? It is insidious, as we would not see it. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-yellen/act-big-now-to-save-economy-worry-about-debt-later-yellen-says-in-treasury-testimony-idUSKBN29O1WX i noted with interest your clickbait thread title. a 401k -- like an tradIRA, 403b, and similar vehicles -- is a tax-advantaged container which buffers taxes on held investments until a later date, when presumably the account owner is in a more advantageous tax situation. explain now how "taxing unrealized gains" would affect securities held inside such a tax-advantaged container. go slowly and use small words so i can understand completely. If they tax income you haven't realized, how hard is it to believe that the tax advantaged accounts are next? Nah, they will go after real estate before tax advantaged accounts. They won’t tax 401ks, they will seize them. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:47:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It doesn't mean anything about your 401k, that's just speculation She briefly mentions taxing your non tax advantaged investments each year, whether you actually sold anything or not Retirement accounts are a very significant part of the stock market, so people jump to conclusions, but it's honestly not too far fetched If you don't rely on the govt, they call you rich, and they want your money Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Can someone smarter than me explain to me what this means? I’m just a dumbass electrician that makes a good living and has a really nice 401k. It doesn't mean anything about your 401k, that's just speculation She briefly mentions taxing your non tax advantaged investments each year, whether you actually sold anything or not Retirement accounts are a very significant part of the stock market, so people jump to conclusions, but it's honestly not too far fetched If you don't rely on the govt, they call you rich, and they want your money Thanks for the info. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:50:07 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah, they will go after real estate before tax advantaged accounts. They won’t tax 401ks, they will seize them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is an "unrealized" capital gains tax a backdoor into our 401k's?? It is insidious, as we would not see it. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-yellen/act-big-now-to-save-economy-worry-about-debt-later-yellen-says-in-treasury-testimony-idUSKBN29O1WX i noted with interest your clickbait thread title. a 401k -- like an tradIRA, 403b, and similar vehicles -- is a tax-advantaged container which buffers taxes on held investments until a later date, when presumably the account owner is in a more advantageous tax situation. explain now how "taxing unrealized gains" would affect securities held inside such a tax-advantaged container. go slowly and use small words so i can understand completely. If they tax income you haven't realized, how hard is it to believe that the tax advantaged accounts are next? Nah, they will go after real estate before tax advantaged accounts. They won’t tax 401ks, they will seize them. If they seize retirement accounts, it will most likely be via taxation |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 8:51:21 AM EDT
[#34]
Oh dont worry....that means we all get more stimulus checks.... dont worry..be happy...!!
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:07:42 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they seize retirement accounts, it will most likely be via taxation Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is an "unrealized" capital gains tax a backdoor into our 401k's?? It is insidious, as we would not see it. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-yellen/act-big-now-to-save-economy-worry-about-debt-later-yellen-says-in-treasury-testimony-idUSKBN29O1WX i noted with interest your clickbait thread title. a 401k -- like an tradIRA, 403b, and similar vehicles -- is a tax-advantaged container which buffers taxes on held investments until a later date, when presumably the account owner is in a more advantageous tax situation. explain now how "taxing unrealized gains" would affect securities held inside such a tax-advantaged container. go slowly and use small words so i can understand completely. If they tax income you haven't realized, how hard is it to believe that the tax advantaged accounts are next? Nah, they will go after real estate before tax advantaged accounts. They won’t tax 401ks, they will seize them. If they seize retirement accounts, it will most likely be via taxation I disagree. They will implement universal basic income and seize the 401k's because they are "no longer necessary". |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:12:55 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No more hedge fund carried interest. You’d think they’d target that first....it’s a scam As someone who benefits from I have to agree with you. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:13:57 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i noted with interest your clickbait thread title. a 401k -- like an tradIRA, 403b, and similar vehicles -- is a tax-advantaged container which buffers taxes on held investments until a later date, when presumably the account owner is in a more advantageous tax situation. explain now how "taxing unrealized gains" would affect securities held inside such a tax-advantaged container. go slowly and use small words so i can understand completely. Easy, you write a new law taking away the tax advantage. Or you slip it into a "has to pass" bill. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:23:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree. They will implement universal basic income and seize the 401k's because they are "no longer necessary". Please explain 2 things 1) How do you "seize" stocks? 2) What do you do with all of the seized stocks? And you do realize all IRAs are already taxed, right? |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:29:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Disgusting that people scrimp, save, and invest their whole life so the govt. can confiscate it in taxes. Kills the purpose of retirement funds.
Alas socialist don't believe it's yours to start with. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:30:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I predict any move in that direction would assure a GOP landslide. I hope the Dems try it. Please please please. Lots of Dems have 401Ks too. Lots of dems own stock too (think 401K). How did that work out in November? |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:31:36 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really are failing at basic comprehension. Nothing in the news article actually says it is a tax on 401(k). Here is a homework assignment for you. Google the current capital gains tax for a non-retirement investment account. The last time I checked, it was much lower than what I pay on my income. By the way, I have plenty of holdings in my 401(k), but unlike you, I don't believe the bullshit pedaled by the talking heads who are paid by the rich, to support the rich. Feel free to let me know when you figure out that capital gains on investment accounts that aren't retirement accounts are significantly lower than normal income taxes. See if you can fit that inside your headspace. You know what - since you probably won't actually bother to find the facts, I'll lay them out for you. Current capital gains taxes are 0%, 15%, or 20% for assets held more than a year. Now contrast that to the 24% tax rate we all pay for income over $84,200 to $160,725? Do you understand the math now? Maybe you need to be reminded that income between $39,475 and $84,200 is taxed at 22%. Where do most americans fall jealous guy? Right there in the fucking 22% tax bracket. So, why should my money in a non retirement account get taxed less than my income? Maybe you are super fucking rich, and you want to stir up this bullshit hysteria on a tax on 401(k)s because you know a lot of people won't bother to understand it. Maybe you are a talking head. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What exactly about that news article leads you to believe it's a tax on 401(k) capital gains? Vs. changing the tax structure on capital gains incurred in non-retirement investment accounts, accounts that see a very low tax burden now, and are disproportionally held by the extremely wealthy, who in many cases already pay a lower net tax burden relative to their wealth and gains? Really, if you are a multi-millionaire, and you have a sizeable non-retirement market account, why are your gains (earnings) there taxed at a much lower rate than the basic income I use to cover my bills? I am far from a multimillionaire but this tax would devastate me and my retirement. There are far more people like me than there are multimillionaires. You think it’s ok to tax people on money they haven’t made yet? You sound jealous. You really are failing at basic comprehension. Nothing in the news article actually says it is a tax on 401(k). Here is a homework assignment for you. Google the current capital gains tax for a non-retirement investment account. The last time I checked, it was much lower than what I pay on my income. By the way, I have plenty of holdings in my 401(k), but unlike you, I don't believe the bullshit pedaled by the talking heads who are paid by the rich, to support the rich. Feel free to let me know when you figure out that capital gains on investment accounts that aren't retirement accounts are significantly lower than normal income taxes. See if you can fit that inside your headspace. You know what - since you probably won't actually bother to find the facts, I'll lay them out for you. Current capital gains taxes are 0%, 15%, or 20% for assets held more than a year. Now contrast that to the 24% tax rate we all pay for income over $84,200 to $160,725? Do you understand the math now? Maybe you need to be reminded that income between $39,475 and $84,200 is taxed at 22%. Where do most americans fall jealous guy? Right there in the fucking 22% tax bracket. So, why should my money in a non retirement account get taxed less than my income? Maybe you are super fucking rich, and you want to stir up this bullshit hysteria on a tax on 401(k)s because you know a lot of people won't bother to understand it. Maybe you are a talking head. Can you read? Go back and re-read my post and show the class where I said anything about taxable or non-taxable accounts. Go ahead, I’ll wait. And for your small jealous head, capital gains are taxed differently for several reasons, not the least of which is the money was already taxed once. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:37:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they seize retirement accounts, it will most likely be via taxation Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is an "unrealized" capital gains tax a backdoor into our 401k's?? It is insidious, as we would not see it. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-yellen/act-big-now-to-save-economy-worry-about-debt-later-yellen-says-in-treasury-testimony-idUSKBN29O1WX i noted with interest your clickbait thread title. a 401k -- like an tradIRA, 403b, and similar vehicles -- is a tax-advantaged container which buffers taxes on held investments until a later date, when presumably the account owner is in a more advantageous tax situation. explain now how "taxing unrealized gains" would affect securities held inside such a tax-advantaged container. go slowly and use small words so i can understand completely. If they tax income you haven't realized, how hard is it to believe that the tax advantaged accounts are next? Nah, they will go after real estate before tax advantaged accounts. They won’t tax 401ks, they will seize them. If they seize retirement accounts, it will most likely be via taxation Most likely. Death by a thousand cuts as opposed to taking it all in one go. People would be in the streets with torches and pitchforks if they did the latter. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:49:47 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lots of dems own stock too (think 401K). How did that work out in November? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I predict any move in that direction would assure a GOP landslide. I hope the Dems try it. Please please please. Lots of Dems have 401Ks too. Lots of dems own stock too (think 401K). How did that work out in November? Lots of folks are disconnected from reality. It’s going to slap them upside the head, hard. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:50:18 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or an untaxed capital gain is the increase in the value of your home. Let's say you bought your home thirty years ago for 75 thousand, and now it is worth 1 million. Do you happen to have enough cash sitting around to pay capital gains on 925 thousand? I guess you could sell some stocks, oh wait some of that is gone also. Welcome to the Great Reset. After all, the home is the greatest asset of the middle class. Yep. Also, I’m sure for many this would be the point where someone is going to die. May be the home owner may be the person trying to seize the assets but someone or many someone’s will pay with their life. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 9:52:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really are failing at basic comprehension. Nothing in the news article actually says it is a tax on 401(k). Here is a homework assignment for you. Google the current capital gains tax for a non-retirement investment account. The last time I checked, it was much lower than what I pay on my income. By the way, I have plenty of holdings in my 401(k), but unlike you, I don't believe the bullshit pedaled by the talking heads who are paid by the rich, to support the rich. Feel free to let me know when you figure out that capital gains on investment accounts that aren't retirement accounts are significantly lower than normal income taxes. See if you can fit that inside your headspace. You know what - since you probably won't actually bother to find the facts, I'll lay them out for you. Current capital gains taxes are 0%, 15%, or 20% for assets held more than a year. Now contrast that to the 24% tax rate we all pay for income over $84,200 to $160,725? Do you understand the math now? Maybe you need to be reminded that income between $39,475 and $84,200 is taxed at 22%. Where do most americans fall jealous guy? Right there in the fucking 22% tax bracket. So, why should my money in a non retirement account get taxed less than my income? Maybe you are super fucking rich, and you want to stir up this bullshit hysteria on a tax on 401(k)s because you know a lot of people won't bother to understand it. Maybe you are a talking head. This is by far the Worst post of 2021.  It perfectly encapsulates why this country is heading straight down the shitter. Yes, I know the year is still young, but It’s a strong contender.  |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 10:03:05 AM EDT
[#46]
porperty tax is pay X% yearly. there's no promise the house you paid 100k for that's now worth 500k will sell for 500k in 3 years. maybe it'll be 200k, but you pay taxes on 500k that year. don't like it? don't buy a house and pay ever increasing rent. yet everyone with half a brain still owns because none degenerates need a place to live and it still makes tons of economic sense.
GD: taxing ordinary income at ordinary income rates when the ordinary incomes come from stonks would ruin the economy! reality: nothing would change at all. capital gains taxes should be in the range of the higher income tax brackets, be that 25% or 50%. it doesn't matter if thats a small percent yearly or a much larger later percent at all. the idea that will cause all of billionaires to go flip burgers for 10 bucks an hour instead of employing an army of lawyers to take advantage of the new system, which will be purposefully flawed just like the old system to screw over the middle class, is just absurd. we'll call the middle class anyone who has a net worth under 10 million dollars today. also GD: socialism and stealing other peoples money is all good until the people doing it are in a different political party than me. only when the political party is not mine will there magically be any economic consequences. money printer's gone brrrrrrr faster and faster for 20 years now. much faster under trump than ever before. at some point there's an end to that road and it wont be pretty. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 10:21:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. They know what they are doing. They are evil. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They are clueless. No. They know what they are doing. They are evil. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 10:24:46 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What exactly about that news article leads you to believe it's a tax on 401(k) capital gains? Vs. changing the tax structure on capital gains incurred in non-retirement investment accounts, accounts that see a very low tax burden now, and are disproportionally held by the extremely wealthy, who in many cases already pay a lower net tax burden relative to their wealth and gains? Really, if you are a multi-millionaire, and you have a sizeable non-retirement market account, why are your gains (earnings) there taxed at a much lower rate than the basic income I use to cover my bills? I mean I get it - let's let the rich keep getting richer, and the rest of us stay where we are! The fact that people buy into this fear hysteria about socialism, as if the end goal of the Democratic party is to make the middle class carry a disproportionate amount of funding America is ridiculous. Taxing the middle class, and lower class is what we saw under the last administration. Shifting a little more of the burden to the wealthy is the focus of the Democratic party. I'd suggest you do a little more research, and a little less listening to talking heads. The one thing I know with certainty - I'm upper middle class, and Trumps "tax relief" package increased my net tax paid year over year. It certainly didn't reduce it. You know, YOU can use those same investment vehicles, right? |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 10:45:20 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really are failing at basic comprehension. Nothing in the news article actually says it is a tax on 401(k). Here is a homework assignment for you. Google the current capital gains tax for a non-retirement investment account. The last time I checked, it was much lower than what I pay on my income. By the way, I have plenty of holdings in my 401(k), but unlike you, I don't believe the bullshit pedaled by the talking heads who are paid by the rich, to support the rich. Feel free to let me know when you figure out that capital gains on investment accounts that aren't retirement accounts are significantly lower than normal income taxes. See if you can fit that inside your headspace. You know what - since you probably won't actually bother to find the facts, I'll lay them out for you. Current capital gains taxes are 0%, 15%, or 20% for assets held more than a year. Now contrast that to the 24% tax rate we all pay for income over $84,200 to $160,725? Do you understand the math now? Maybe you need to be reminded that income between $39,475 and $84,200 is taxed at 22%. Where do most americans fall jealous guy? Right there in the fucking 22% tax bracket. So, why should my money in a non retirement account get taxed less than my income? Maybe you are super fucking rich, and you want to stir up this bullshit hysteria on a tax on 401(k)s because you know a lot of people won't bother to understand it. Maybe you are a talking head. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What exactly about that news article leads you to believe it's a tax on 401(k) capital gains? Vs. changing the tax structure on capital gains incurred in non-retirement investment accounts, accounts that see a very low tax burden now, and are disproportionally held by the extremely wealthy, who in many cases already pay a lower net tax burden relative to their wealth and gains? Really, if you are a multi-millionaire, and you have a sizeable non-retirement market account, why are your gains (earnings) there taxed at a much lower rate than the basic income I use to cover my bills? I am far from a multimillionaire but this tax would devastate me and my retirement. There are far more people like me than there are multimillionaires. You think it’s ok to tax people on money they haven’t made yet? You sound jealous. You really are failing at basic comprehension. Nothing in the news article actually says it is a tax on 401(k). Here is a homework assignment for you. Google the current capital gains tax for a non-retirement investment account. The last time I checked, it was much lower than what I pay on my income. By the way, I have plenty of holdings in my 401(k), but unlike you, I don't believe the bullshit pedaled by the talking heads who are paid by the rich, to support the rich. Feel free to let me know when you figure out that capital gains on investment accounts that aren't retirement accounts are significantly lower than normal income taxes. See if you can fit that inside your headspace. You know what - since you probably won't actually bother to find the facts, I'll lay them out for you. Current capital gains taxes are 0%, 15%, or 20% for assets held more than a year. Now contrast that to the 24% tax rate we all pay for income over $84,200 to $160,725? Do you understand the math now? Maybe you need to be reminded that income between $39,475 and $84,200 is taxed at 22%. Where do most americans fall jealous guy? Right there in the fucking 22% tax bracket. So, why should my money in a non retirement account get taxed less than my income? Maybe you are super fucking rich, and you want to stir up this bullshit hysteria on a tax on 401(k)s because you know a lot of people won't bother to understand it. Maybe you are a talking head. I've met people like you: intelligent, well educated enough, who racked up a sizeable amount of student loan debt, and aren't exaclty where they thought they'd be in relation to their degree and debt burden. So now, that you're stuck effectively in the middle, watching other peers move ahead and become more successful, you resent anyone else around you that is doing better than you are; "Well why should I pay more taxes than they do? They're cheating me out of my own hard earned money." you find yourself saying, ignoring the fact that you may find yourself in that positon one day. Are there people paying less taxes than what I pay now? Yup. Guess what though: that's exactly where I plan to be in the next 10 years (god willing). So instead of being a whiny cunt about someone paying less taxes, I'm not sitting here saying "fuck that guy", I'm instead sitting here asking them "how can I get to where you are now?" Nice truck by the way. Why do you hate the environment so much, and continue to increase your carbon footprint, thereby making the life of others around the world so miserable through your selfishness? |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 10:48:20 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do realize there is a difference between long term and short term capital gains. And I agree, I've already paid tax on the money I have in my non-retirement investment account. The point I am trying to make, is that my non-retirement account is like I've created another person, who is out there making money (for me). Why is that money taxed at a lower, and in all honesty a significantly lower rate than the money an average american is earning for themselves? What, just because I'm well off enough to have an account, I should pay less on those earnings? I don't think anyone in the referenced news article is suggesting a tax on unrealized capital gains, nor was Obama suggesting that in the video that is imbedded above. The suggestion is to tax capital gains more like normal income. I'm ok with that, as I don't feel like I deserve a break for being better off than a large portion of America. Unlike many, I believe that a rising tide lifts everyone - if the poor are less poor, I'll benefit from that. If the middle class has more money to spend, I'll benefit from that. If the upper class gets taxed a little more, it's not like it diminishes the quality of their life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Snip Really, if you are a multi-millionaire, and you have a sizeable non-retirement market account, why are your gains (earnings) there taxed at a much lower rate than the basic income I use to cover my bills? Why should capital gains be taxed at all? I already paid income taxes on it when I received it in my paycheck. You realize the lower, long term capital gains rate applies to everybody right? There’s a different rate between long term and short term? Short term is taxed at regular income tax rates. Quoted: You really are failing at basic comprehension. Nothing in the news article actually says it is a tax on 401(k). Here is a homework assignment for you. Google the current capital gains tax for a non-retirement investment account. The last time I checked, it was much lower than what I pay on my income. By the way, I have plenty of holdings in my 401(k), but unlike you, I don't believe the bullshit pedaled by the talking heads who are paid by the rich, to support the rich. Feel free to let me know when you figure out that capital gains on investment accounts that aren't retirement accounts are significantly lower than normal income taxes. See if you can fit that inside your headspace. See above and go read the tax code again. The article doesn’t mention what this hair brain idea applies to. Assume the worst and it applies to everything. I do realize there is a difference between long term and short term capital gains. And I agree, I've already paid tax on the money I have in my non-retirement investment account. The point I am trying to make, is that my non-retirement account is like I've created another person, who is out there making money (for me). Why is that money taxed at a lower, and in all honesty a significantly lower rate than the money an average american is earning for themselves? What, just because I'm well off enough to have an account, I should pay less on those earnings? I don't think anyone in the referenced news article is suggesting a tax on unrealized capital gains, nor was Obama suggesting that in the video that is imbedded above. The suggestion is to tax capital gains more like normal income. I'm ok with that, as I don't feel like I deserve a break for being better off than a large portion of America. Unlike many, I believe that a rising tide lifts everyone - if the poor are less poor, I'll benefit from that. If the middle class has more money to spend, I'll benefit from that. If the upper class gets taxed a little more, it's not like it diminishes the quality of their life. You’re whole argument is based on the lower rates of long term capital gains. You don’t understand the difference. |
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