I'm a bit embarrassed to admit it, but I don't know a whole hell of a lot about computers.  I use them everyday and can fight my way through stuff, but I don't know shit about components.  I mean, I look at the specs and choose higher numbers or newer versions. I don't really know the fine details about what makes some better than others that appear similar.  So here I am asking for help.

My old computer is driving me nuts.  When designing parts I spend more time waiting on the computer to process than I do actually working.  I'm ready to pull the trigger on a new one.

Uses include
Fusion 360 daily
Web browsing daily
Viewing and light editing of photos and sometimes video.  It usually consists of trimming videos or pics.  Nothing too fancy there.  Maybe a few times a month.
Cura for slicing prints daily
I'm entertaining trying flight sims like Velocidrone since the in person events are getting cancelled.  I will be viewing in my goggles. So I don't know how that effects the video processing needs.  Definately not a "Gamer" otherwise.

Current computer is from 2011 I think.  I've had it a while.

Gateway
Updated from Windows 8 to Windows 10 64 bit
AMD E1-1200 processor
AMD Radeon HD 7310 graphics
500GB hard drive  I don't believe its a SSD drive, but I could be wrong
4GB DDR3 Memory
DVD drive
Multi media card reader
HDMI port


The computer I'm considering. It's a refurb (about $325)

Dell Optiplex 9020 SFF High Performance Desktop Computer
Intel Core 4th Gen. i7-4790 3.6GHz (Up to 4.0GHz Turbo Boost)
16GB DDR3 Ram
480GB SSD (Solid State Drive)
Intel HD Graphics 4600
Realtek ALC3220 HD Codec
Integrated 10/100/1000 Network
DVD+/-RW
Wireless: USB WIFI Adapter                               (Not a big deal, will be connected with ethernet direct to router)
Genuine Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit


Does this sound like a good upgrade over what I've got?  Overkill?  Not enough?  Looks to me like several year old tech, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

None of the ones I have looked at so far have had DDR4 memory.
The listing and reviews say there is an open slot where a graphics card could be installed.  Would this still be a good buy considering the graphics could be upgraded if needed?
On the hard drive size...I'm currently only using about 278 GB of storage of 500 GB. I've been letting Fusion360 store all my work.  If I start saving local copies, would it be worth it to pay another $25 or so to step up to 1 TB SSD?  All other specs remaining the same.

First of all, holy shit dude, a E1-1200 completely sucks for web browsing, I'm surprised Fusion 360 even runs.  I have a Dell 9020 mid-tower (I7-4770, 16gb ram, 500gb ssd) that I run Fusion 360 on and Rat_Patrol is correct the integrated graphics are not great for CAD.  There is enough processor and ram there but you really need a discrete graphics card for cad work.  I have a GTX 1060 in mine and it runs fine for the simple models I make.  If you're trying to build complex assemblies I could see you needed something more but I don't think that's what you're trying to do.

If you're looking on eBay for cheap used computers IMO the 9020s are a great deal but there's a couple of things you need to consider first.  First, you're looking at a small form factor (SFF) PC so your upgrade options are limited.  Most video cards are full height and won't fit, half height cards are hard to find because not many people need them.  I think the fastest half height card is a GTX 1650 or GTX 1050ti, try to find one that doesn't need an external power connector.  If you need an external power connector for your graphics card you will need to upgrade your power supply.  Which brings me to the second big downside, power supplies.  Dell uses a non-standard power supply in the 9020 with a non-standard connector on the motherboard.  There is an adapter cable that you can buy for $20 that will let you put in a standard power supply but in a SFF PC it might be a tight fit.

I'd recommend a mid-tower over the SFF even if though the price is a little higher so that an upgraded graphics card is a possibility.

Upgrading computers isn't something I do.  I typically  buy one, run it for almost 10 yrs, and then buy a new one.

When you guys say the integrated graphics aren't great, what exactly does that mean? What are the symptoms I'll see during use?

In car terms, I feel like I'm going from a beater that barely does 55mph to something  that will go 120+.  I don't need to go 120mph, but it's nice to have the option.

I get that.  

The way I understand it, if I delete a face, I need processing power to fix the model.  This is where i struggle now.

If I hit the orbit tool and rotate for a different perspective, this is graphics.  I don't care if that is slow.

I'm tired of deleting a face, fileting, or extruding, and then going to watch TV while it updates only to throw a flag and have to do it again.

With the integrated graphics you may still have stuttering when doing things like rotating the model or zooming.  A really complicated model might not display correctly or crash the computer if it runs out of memory.  Compared to your old computer I think you'll be happy but even a less then $100 graphics card like a Nvidia GT 1030 will make a big difference in smoothness.

An Optiplex 9020 with the mid tower case will give you a little bit better power supply and more options for upgrading the video card.  I'd look for one of those over the SFF case if you can find one for a comparable price.  You should be able to find one with similar specs for only a little more.

The computer you're looking at will do that.  It's something like 10 times faster than your old one.  If you want to throw $100 at in the future for a better graphics card you will have a couple of different options.

I built this 2 years ago for architectural CAD and 3D rendering. It works well for residential and smaller commercial work, and is VR-capable. I think it cost me just under $3,000 in parts.

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7GHz 8-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Deepcool - GAMMAXX 400 74.3 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASRock - X470 Taichi ATX AM4 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
Storage: Samsung - 970 Evo 500GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
Video Card: PNY - Quadro P4000 8GB Video Card
Case: Corsair - 750D ATX Full Tower Case  
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
Optical Drive: Asus - DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer
Case Fan: Corsair - Air Series SP120 High Performance Edition (2-Pack) 62.7 CFM  120mm Fans  
(3) Monitor: LG - 32MA68HY-P 32.0" 1920x1080
Keyboard: Thermaltake - Commander Bundle Wired Gaming Keyboard w/Optical Mouse

Thanks for the input guys. I think I'm going with the Optiplex 9020 that I posted, but with the 1TB SSD.

Looks like the processor and RAM are massive improvements over what I have.  The Integrated graphics are >300% better than what I have now according to benchmark.  If that doesn't do it, I can get a GT 1030 for about $85 for another 300% bump.

I don't do super complicated CAD assemblies as everything I model either gets 3D printed, machined manually, or fabricated by me.

Now, just for kicks, talk me out of buying a second Sovol SV01 printer.  I kinda want one for TPU and one for PLA.  I could accomplish so much more with a faster computer and a second printer.

Simply put, integrated graphics is a GPU built into your CPU. Not all CPU's have this, although most Intel CPU's do. The main purpose of integrated graphics is simply for running a display or two. They're really only capable of handling light graphical workloads.

Integrated graphics should work, but a dedicated GPU is likely in your best interest here and you also won't need a super powerful one. The small form factor of that optiplex limits you though. Basically, you are forced to get a low profile card and most of the cards available that way are super old and not worth the price being asked. With a normal mid tower PC you could pick up just about any used ~5 year old gaming GPU and have a BEAST for what you want. If you decide to get into the flight sim and VR stuff, you might need a better GPU than that.

As far as the computer you were looking at, it would be a huge upgrade for you and should be reasonable for what you want. I have a computer with a i5-4690k (overclocked to 4.5GHz) 16GB of RAM, a SSD, and a GTX 1660 Super graphics card that is used as a gaming computer and it still does alright for itself. The main thing I would want is at least a 4 core CPU, preferably with hyper threading, 8GB+ of RAM, and a SSD that either comes with it or add one in afterwards. The PC you picked out fits that criteria, it's just in an unfortunately sized case and IMO a little more expensive than it should be.

Not being into computers limits me on what is available.  I'm stuck buying a complete, or mostly complete package.  I'm also only willing to throw about $400 at it right now. From what I've found so far, a full size case with similar specs puts me over that.  Even before upgrading the gpu.

So I looked through the refurb stuff on Newegg for a little bit and this kind of stuck out to me. It's probably a system I would go with if my needs were similar to yours, but I also tinker with computers so a large factor in that is it's a good "base" for upgrading a little.

HP Desktop Computer M01-F0057C Intel Core i3 9th Gen 9100 (3.60 GHz) 8 GB DDR4 1 TB HDD 128 GB PCIe SSD Intel UHD Graphics 630 Windows 10 Home 64-bit - $312.99

It would be much newer hardware than the one you suggested and should be easier to get your hands on (new) replacement parts if needed. It has a i3-9100 CPU which is MUCH newer than the old i7-4790, and despite the old i7 having hyperthreading the newer i3 can still outperform it due to the higher clock speeds. It will also have better integrated graphics. Checking HP's site the motherboard would also be compatible to upgrade the CPU to a i7-9700 if you find yourself in need of an additional 4 cores. It also appears that these came with the 128GB SSD as a m.2 drive and an additional m.2 slot on the motherboard, which should give you options for upgrading to larger SSD's without worrying about mounting locations or running cables. Case size should allow for adding a dedicated GPU, and the motherboard has the correct slot for doing so.

There were some other options as well.

Dell Precision T5810 Workstation E5-1650 v3 3.5GHz 6-Cores 16GB DDR4 1TB HDD Quadro K600 Windows 10 Pro - $324
You would want to add your own SSD to this one. They offer it as an option but IMO the additional cost is too much versus doing it yourself. The Xeon processors don't have integrated graphics so this one comes with a dedicated GPU in the Quadro K600. You're not going to play any graphically intense games with the Quadro but it should excel at what you're asking it to do.

Dell Precision T3610 Workstation E5-2643 v2 3.5GHz 6-Cores 32GB DDR3 Quadro 600 - $230.99
This one doesn't come with either a SSD or HDD, but that's not necessarily a bad thing due to the reduced cost. You could drop in your own and save money. Slightly older Xeon in this one though, which also means you're getting DDR3 RAM instead of DDR4.

I'm sure if you comb through Newegg or eBay looking for a good deal on a better refurb you could find one, but IMO the first one is clearly a better option (as it sits, but especially if you upgrade it down the line) than the system you talked about in the OP and even the two Dell workstations should perform similarly CPU wise but come out ahead if you need GPU horsepower. It sounds like you would be unfamiliar with upgrading PC's, but honestly these are very simple upgrades that would only take a few minutes for someone who has done it before. I'm sure somebody you know could do it or walk you through it, if not there are TONS of youtube videos that show the process. I'm sure you could even get help here on arfcom.

edit: I wanted to elaborate on upgrading. I'm not saying it will be necessary, just that it's possible and you could see good performance or quality of life improvements down the line. I'm frankly astonished you're using as old of a computer as you are without much to complain about. That fact alone means upgrading to a 4th gen i7 based system (or even the 3rd/4th gen Xeons) will feel like a huge leap. For most people though, I wouldn't expect them to be happy with that level of performance over the next 10 years like how you say you buy computers. I would feel much more confident in a 9th gen, even if it's only an i3, staying useful over the next 10 years. If you drop a dedicated GPU and a used (in a couple years when the cost should come down a lot) i7-9700 you will certainly get your money out of it. I have two 3rd gen i5 based systems in my house that are about 8 years old now and are trucking along just fine for normal computer use, but I don't expect that they will do anything more than basic computing 10 years down the line. Thankfully, very basic computing tasks is what I keep them around for. One was formerly my work computer but is now a file server, and another runs a laser cutter/engraver in my garage. The 4th gen i5 system I have setup for the kids to game on is acceptable for most of the current stuff (due to overclocking it), but from basically this point forward it's going to rapidly become less useful for playing new games. That era of hardware already had its hay day and is on borrowed time.

Anybody want to second this choice?  If so I'll order today.

Also, I couldn't determine what the display hookups were.  Does it have Display Port, HDMI, or just the standard blue monitor plug?
Are there any $50-100 upgrades worthwhile right from the get go?  More Ram? Or would $50-100 get me a significantly better computer?  The $400 "budget"  Isn't set in stone.  That's just what I feel would be a good bang for the buck ballpark.
Last question, maybe.  Am I correct in thinking that the OS and programs should go on the SSD and files like photos, cad files, etc, go on the HDD?

Yeah, I looked into the Home vs Pro a little.  Looks like most of the difference is like you said, for remote access. Or things that I don't understand enough to know if I have a use for.  Don't care about that.

I'm running 64 bit now on 4gb...

I can’t fault his logic and I didn’t look at what other possibilities are out there. The computer market sucks right now both new and used, prices are high and options are low. I was looking at upgrading my video card and some are priced higher then the same model was selling for two years ago.

8GB of RAM is a bit of a bummer on that model but you should be fine. I never had a issue with my PC's running 8GB even when seriously multitasking. I personally prefer more, but it works.

FWIW I have two low powered (dual core) machines in my home running Win 10 and only 4GB of RAM. They work fine for basic use as well.

Spec sheet says it has a HDMI & VGA (blue plug) for video output.

You're correct about the SSD & files. OS & programs should be installed to the SSD. File storage on the HDD. The 128GB drive is a bit small so if you have a lot of programs you run that might be something you upgrade right off the bat. I'd give it a whirl first and see if it works out. I put a 120GB SSD in an old laptop my son uses for programming class and IIRC it had enough space for the "normal" suite of programs you'd want.

The main question I have with that pre-built is if it has a big enough power supply, or the right power adapter, to run a video card (if you need one).

If it does, you can pick up older used GPU's for cheap and they will blow the integrated graphics out of the water.

If not, you would be stuck with a low power card that gets all its power from the motherboard. There are models of that type of card that will still blow the integrated graphics out of the water, but they won't be as cheap as older gaming cards.

Again, I'd give it a whirl first before committing to a GPU upgrade. Waiting should help with pricing as well.

Edit: Autodesk recommends a dedicated GPU with 4GB of VRAM. A couple months ago you could pick up a brand new GTX 1650 for $150 that would meet that criteria and would run off motherboard power alone. Right now the prices are stupid high, but if you could find one for a good price (there were used ones for sale near me for ~$100) I'd highly recommend that as the card to own. Slightly more expensive than the GTX 1050 or GTX 1030 but much better. I'm still not sure you NEED one (as Autodesk says integrated graphics are the minimum requirement and I assume your models likely aren't complex enough to really stress anything) but that would fit their recommendation.

So I found a spec sheet.  It says the ddr4 memory is 1x8gb.  It also says 2 dimm slots ( one available ). And expandable to 32gb.

Dimm slots are where ram goes, right?  So, can I just buy another 1x8gb ddr4 and plug it in? For 16gb total?

Yes, it's super easy to add. Just make sure you buy DDR4-2400 to match what's in there.

Yep, you can add another stick. As said, just try to match it up spec wise.

Ideally you want to buy RAM in pairs to avoid any issues, but from my experience as long as the RAM is actually functional it will work out.

Computer has been ordered and you're all going on my shit list if it doesn't work out.

I don't know how critical matching up the RAM is.  So I'm just going to see how it runs stock.  Then if I want to upgrade, I can either pull the part # off the existing chip, or just order all new RAM.

It uses dual channel memory with two slots so matching isn’t that critical. The computer will take the lowest spec of the two and run them both at the same speed. If the board had 4 dimm slots in dual channel, two slots per channel, matching the dimms in each channel is necessary but between two  channels it’s not as critical.

That said when I upgrade I try to match the part numbers anyway.

I work with CAD and CAM all day everyday.  I haven't read the other replies to your thread, but in a generic sense, here is a list of what you'll need.

Graphics card: OpenGL capable, with as much memory and processor speed as you can afford.  We use NVidia brand cards with the Quadro processor, but they're old and may have been superseded by something better.
Motherboard: CAD is data intensive so you need a motherboard that is capable of moving large amounts quickly.  This means lots of fast memory, and a chipset that can handle high bus speeds.  In the old days I based systems on server motherboards to get the throughput, but there are other options that do the same thing.
SSD Drive: avoid the bottle neck of HDD latencies.  I used to use caching controllers to avoid the read/write latency of HDD, and the CAD performance increase was noticeable; SSD's avoid that issue altogether.
Large high-def monitor, matched to the capabilities of your graphics card; use 2 or more monitors if you can - one for the graphics windows and the other for everything else.
3D mouse: I use  3dconnexion's Space Navigator, which handles rotations and translations, but there are fancier models available

Much better advice given than GD, you should be good to go op.

Unless you're like me and and hate shutting down programs and have a bazillion browser tabs open. I have an I7-8700 with a 1080 and noticed a difference upgrading from 16 to 32 GB of ram.

Is newegg normally this slow?  Shipping label created Sunday afternoon.  It will be Saturday here in a few hours and it still hasn't shipped according to the tracking number.

Yeah their shipping can vary between quick and dang slow.

I think newegg was also on the list of places UPS was limiting orders from as well?

IF my computer ever shows up I'm going to have to transfer all my files over.

So talk to me about external storage.  The most critical files are going to be family photos.  CAD and other things can be redone if necessary.  Photos of kids, dogs, and family members that have passed can't be replaced.

This is my plan.
 Store programs/apps/OS on computer SSD.  Store All files on computer HD.
    Backup photos and other important files to external SSD.
       Periodically backup/transfer photos from external SSD to CD/DVD for long term storage.

This should always leave me with at least 2 copies of photos.  3 copies as they get older.
Does this sound like a good plan?  If so, recommend an external SSD and CD/DVDs.

For the External SSD, something 250-500GB will probably hold years worth of files.  Would it be better to start with 250GB and then add a second 250GB if I fill it?  Or go 500 right from the git go and maybe never fill it?  Everything eventually wears out and gets improved on.  So I'm leaning towards 250GB to start.  In a year or two, there may be even better options.

Unless you want your files to be mobile, I'd get a external HDD not an external SSD. SSD will cost more $ per GB with the benefit of being faster and being solid state so you won't damage the drive/lose data from dropping it or whatever. A 1 TB external HDD is like $50 and is perfectly fine performance wise for sitting on your desk and collecting photos and such. Personally, I don't like external drives due to the failure points, but they are convenient for transferring stuff between computers.

There are better storage plans than the one you have, but they're more complicated to maintain or more expensive as well. Dedicated storage devices like a NAS or cloud based storage would be examples. If you're thinking 500 GB is going to last you years then it's probably overkill to do it another way.

As far as actual file transfer, that's always the hardest part of getting a new PC IMO. Mainly because I've been inconsistent about where I save stuff. There are some software solutions that are designed to help with it, but I've never used them.

Being mobile is a requirement.  Our families are a few hours away and I bring them massive amounts of grandkid pics when i visit.  They can then sort through and print at their leisure.

SSD is probably the safer option then.

Although, that sounds like a cloud solution would be beneficial as well. If you have Amazon Prime you can get unlimited photo storage with their cloud storage.

How do you pick a portable SSD?  Doesn't seem to matter if it's a cheap no name or top of the line.  They all have about 80% good reviews with the other 20% being pretty bad.

Looks like 500gb may be the sweet spot price wise for me.  If I understand correctly, a larger drive than you need will be more reliable and last longer.  So if I anticipate 250gb, then I want a 500gb drive.

Any experience with Netac, PNY, Pioneer?  The Sandisk extreme looks kinda nice, but is pushing it pricewise for me.

What's the advantage of SSD over just a usb flash drive?  Is it just speed?

So would the samsung T5 be a good choice over the T7?  Not sure anything I own will be fast enough to benefit from the T7.  Don't care about the security features. Are there other benefits I'm missing?

I put together a computer for non graphic 3d modeling and cam. I use it for my cnc router so inable to turn graphics down and use a lower grade Graphics card.

What I’ve found is you want more speed vs more cores. Fusion doesn’t like to use multiple cores  it’s annoying.

I would double if not quadruple  that memory. I  now have 64gb of memory. I regularly use over 33gb calculating adaptive tool paths.

Here's an article that might help a bit.
What's the difference between flash and SSD storage?

As far as what to pick, I tend to stick with brands I've used and trust. Samsung, Western Digital, Sandisk, etc.

Stuff like PNY I typically view as low-grade BS that people buy to save a couple bucks.

FWIW, I wouldn't rely on a USB flash drive for my primary data storage. I use flash drives for moving files between computers, and that's it. Long term storage goes on HDD's, and drives that I'll be working off of are SSD's.

I use flash and sd cards now for transfering and storage, but I don't trust it long term.  I'd like to stick with those for swapping single files between computers or printers, but go with something better for long (weeks to months) and longer (years to decades) term storage.  When it comes to family pictures, we can assume decades for some of them.  For that really long term, I think CDs/DVDs are the way to go.  I can burn multiples for cheap if I want.

Computer is supposed to be here tomorrow.  3d printer on saturday if i get off the fence about it.  And an SSD by monday if I nail down which one I want.

It really just depends on the size of your storage needs, how important the data really is, and how anal you are about keeping it. DVD's are decent for reliability but are a PITA for large amounts of data. IIRC they say you can get like 20-30 years of reliable storage from a DVD that's kept in optimal storage conditions.

What I do for my business is I backup and store data from my computer to a NAS, and both the computer and NAS backup to the cloud but with different services. I need TB's of storage though, and while I considered DVD's or even Blurays they just aren't as cost effective for larger amounts of data.

DVD's, Blurays, M Disc, HDDs, SSDs. Whatever you want to choose will likely work, just know the best way to store them for longevity.

The CDs would be the 2nd backup.  Desktop HDD, then SDD, then CD.  I don't need to delete anything after transfering.  I have enough storage to keep all copies.  The only exception to that is getting a new computer.  Then they would be transfered from old to new and the old computer destroyed before disposal.  Luckily, I don't do that often.

I'm not sure I've used a TB in my whole life.  Current desktop has 157GB on it.  My laptop, 210GB.  That's including the OS and a lot of the files are duplicates from desktop to laptop.  All of my files from previous computers are in there too.

Your wallet thanks you.

Last year is when I started using a NAS as a backup solution instead of just extra HDD's. Started with 6 TB of space, with a second drive mirrored for redundancy. I thought that would last for a bit but it's already full so I'm building my own NAS and it's going to have 120TB of space, with redundancy for multiple drive failures.

I ordered the Samsung T7 500GB.  The T5s weren't really any cheaper.  

I also ordered a second Sovol SV01.

Got the new computer up and running.  Got Fusion360 and cura installed.  Fusion gave me the notice that the graphics were holding up performance.  I opened up a couple projects that I had been working on and they definitely looked different and were easier to spin around.  We'll see how it actually performs when I have to work on something.

Anybody know how to get all my cura profiles from my old computer to the new one so I don't have to start from scratch?

Now with more Cura questions.

I got all the profiles transferred over.

I want to update the firmware to marlin 2.0 like I did my first printer, but can't get it linked through the usb cable. Cura just isn't seeing it and i have no idea why.  I had the same trouble with the first printer and can't remember what i did to fix it.  I'm pretty sure one of you guys had the solution.