Franklin Armory and their new "firearm" 11.5" Barrel AR-15 and stock Non-NFA? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Franklin Armory and their new "firearm" 11.5" Barrel AR-15 and stock Non-NFA? (Page 1 of 80)

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:36:44 PM EDT

What is their reasoning that a rifle with a stock and an 11.5" barrel does not need a tax stamp?

According to the NFA an SBR is any firearm with a buttstock that has a rifled barrel of less than sixteen inches, or an overall length of less than twenty six inches. The total length is measured in the extended position. However, Franklin Armory found a shocking loophole.

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https://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2018/01/11/franklin-armory-introduces-short-barrel-firearm-standard-ar-stock-atf-approval/

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:39:08 PM EDT

[#1]

Hmmmm

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:39:22 PM EDT

[#2]

In for the explanation as well, lol.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:39:51 PM EDT

[#3]

Just came here myself to find out what the secret is.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:41:06 PM EDT

[#4]

After 11" doesn't it break the 26" OAL rule and is therefore not a pistol?

I think it changes to a "firearm" at that point. But I was always under the impression that a "firearm" cant have a stock

Please oh please be something like this, as my shorty FAL should be over 26"

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:41:24 PM EDT

[#5]

Is it a black powder muzzle loader?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:41:41 PM EDT

[#6]

Non-rifled barrel? Some new kinda tech in play?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:42:51 PM EDT

[#7]

Magnets?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:43:32 PM EDT

[#8]

In for more info.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:43:35 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
After 11" doesn't it break the 26" OAL rule and is therefore not a pistol?

I think it changes to a "firearm" at that point. But I was always under the impression that a "firearm" cant have a stock

Please oh please be something like this, as my shorty FAL should be over 26"

View Quote

That is my understanding also...

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:43:54 PM EDT

[#10]

Hmm

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:44:09 PM EDT

[#11]

I find it hard to believe that someone discovered something before the barracks lawyers of ArfCom did...

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:44:13 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
Non-rifled barrel? Some new kinda tech in play?

View Quote

That's what I was thinking too. Maybe they found a way to put a twist in the barrel and not have rifling that is still able to stabilize a bullet?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:44:27 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

That is my understanding also...

View Quote

I know you can get away with have a VFG on "firearms" since they are over 26"

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:44:43 PM EDT

[#14]

Pretty sure ~~Franklin Armory~~ somebody is trolling the ATF.

ETA: This product is not on Franklin's website

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:00 PM EDT

[#15]

I'm guessing it has to do with the red doohickey shown under the selector.

Not sure how that would change anything though.

ETA: OK, that's their normal binary trigger indicator. If they rig their triggers to only fire in binary mode with no single fire option, does that make it not a rifle by definition?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:02 PM EDT

[#16]

I don't even care what the loophole or reasoning is, I'm just glad firearms companies are so interested in joining us in fucking with the NFA instead of joining the government to fuck with gun owners like they did in the 90s.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:10 PM EDT

[#17]

Last inch of barrel is smooth bore?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:11 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
I find it hard to believe that someone discovered something before the barracks lawyers of ArfCom did...

View Quote

Maybe the ATF is finally getting tired of processing form 1s for SBRs?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:13 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
Non-rifled barrel? Some new kinda tech in play?

View Quote

Sweet. So it shoots like a Mini-14?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:15 PM EDT

[#20]

A non-rifled barrel would be so shitty... Fine for mag dumps though I guess.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:45:40 PM EDT

[#21]

tag

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:46:43 PM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:
After 11" doesn't it break the 26" OAL rule and is therefore not a pistol?

I think it changes to a "firearm" at that point. But I was always under the impression that a "firearm" cant have a stock

Please oh please be something like this, as my shorty FAL should be over 26"

View Quote

If that's the case stamps wouldn't be needed for 12" , 13.7 or 14.5"" ? None of this makes sense the atf is fucking dumb

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:46:51 PM EDT

[#23]

I'm guessing it has something to do with the rifling, because the OAL requirement is tough to engineer a solution to.

Just can't imagine how rifling could ever be significantly modified to result in a gun worth owning.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:47:38 PM EDT

[#24]

According to the NFA an SBR is any firearm with a buttstock that has a rifled barrel of less than sixteen inches, or an overall length of less than twenty six inches. The total length is measured in the extended position. However, Franklin Armory found a shocking loophole.

View Quote

smooth bore, no lands/grooves ?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:47:51 PM EDT

[#25]

There has to be a catch otherwise whats stopping anyone out there from building something like this?

Shit one of my SBR's is setup nearly identically to this, down to the SL stock, just a different rail on the 11.5" barrel

No way its smoothbore, that would be pants on head retarded.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:48:15 PM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

If that's the case stamps wouldn't be needed for 12" , 13.7 or 14.5"" ? None of this makes sense the atf is fucking dumb

View Quote

No joke

I hope its not smooth bore though

That would be dumb

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:49:00 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Non-rifled barrel? Some new kinda tech in play?

View Quote

Polygonal broach. No actual rifling? Just a guess. Interesting!

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:49:11 PM EDT

[#28]

Smooth bore barrel BUT muzzle device is rifled.

Muzzle device is not considered part of barrel or the length of barrel or length of anything.

Just after the bullet leaves the muzzle it is given a twist by the muzzle device.

This is my crazy guess????????????

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:49:56 PM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

No joke

I hope its not smooth bore though

That would be dumb

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Maybe they have new ammo for it... like rifled slugs

WTF is it going to be other than half stupid?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:50:31 PM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

Maybe they have new ammo for it... like rifled slugs

WTF is it going to be other than half stupid?

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Im hoping for a game changer, like the braces were

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:50:35 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:
Last inch of barrel is smooth bore?

View Quote

or the opposite and the "barrel" is classified as a muzzle device that is rifled

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:50:40 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Smooth bore barrel BUT muzzle device is rifled.

Muzzle device is not considered part of barrel or the length of barrel or length of anything.

Just after the bullet leaves the muzzle it is given a twist by the muzzle device.

This is my crazy guess????????????

View Quote

So 0.5 inch barrel with a 11 inch rifled muzzle device?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:50:55 PM EDT

[#33]

Lol, I think I know what it is, and they hit the loophole of loopholes if it is what I think.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:04 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
Smooth bore barrel BUT muzzle device is rifled.

Muzzle device is not considered part of barrel or the length of barrel or length of anything.

Just after the bullet leaves the muzzle it is given a twist by the muzzle device.

This is my crazy guess????????????

View Quote

11.5" leade? Not sure how comfortable I'd be shooting that...

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:09 PM EDT

[#35]

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:13 PM EDT

[#36]

Tag for later

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:19 PM EDT

[#37]

Sign me up. I would love to build a bunch of "firearms" at home. Needs more information first.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:51:22 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lol, I think I know what it is, and they hit the loophole of loopholes if it is what I think.

View Quote

Don't hold back

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:04 PM EDT

[#39]

I don't see the wizzardry.

>26"OAL and <16" rifled barrel =SBR

11.5" barrel
7.25" receiver
>8.25" extended length on the stock
-----------
>26" OAL.

Or the barrel isn't rifled.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:28 PM EDT

[#40]

Interesting. Tagged for updates.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:28 PM EDT

[#41]

Franklin's done this before with their XO-26 "not a rifle/pistol/aow" thingy.

I'm interested, to say the least.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:29 PM EDT

[#42]

Interested.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:48 PM EDT

[#43]

In for the answer...

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:52:52 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
Lol, I think I know what it is, and they hit the loophole of loopholes if it is what I think.

View Quote

So much info.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:02 PM EDT

[#45]

In for the answer...

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:15 PM EDT

[#46]

In.

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:16 PM EDT

[#47]

Smooth bore

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:26 PM EDT

[#48]

Some sort of loophole for sure, this isnt their first time sneaking one through

2011

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:53:48 PM EDT

[#49]

Smooth bore, but using a rifled slug? Or a rifled saboted slug?

Posted: 1/11/2018 5:54:17 PM EDT

[#50]

In before we taunt and pester the ATF.

Go get them, boys. Ruin this one, too.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Franklin Armory and their new "firearm" 11.5" Barrel AR-15 and stock Non-NFA? (Page 1 of 80)

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