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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:48:34 AM EDT
Okay, I have a question.  I hope I am able to explain what I am trying to ask.

We are forgiven of our sins if we ask the Lord's forgiveness and repent.

Likewise we are commanded to forgive those who have sinned against us.

- BUT -

Does said forgiveness be automatically required by us?  For example, we are not automatically forgiven (or are we?) unless we apologize and ask for his grace.  So, does an offending party have to be sorry for their wrongs on us and apologize to require our forgiveness?
Link Posted: 12/19/2018 1:56:53 AM EDT
[#1]
Grace, supposedly undeserved favor, is what you offer. Give what you got.

You’re playing head tricks on yourself. If you got love, give it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2018 2:02:28 AM EDT
[#2]
Jesus was teaching His disciples to pray.  This is for Children of God.  When we become a Child of God our sins are forgiven.  Past, Present, Future.  Continued repentance is required to remain in fellowship with the father as is any other parent-child relationship.
Link Posted: 12/19/2018 9:04:49 AM EDT
[#3]
It's just what it says.  We are to treat others as we want to be treated.  Forgive others for their faults, failures, and even deliberate sins just as Jesus said on crucifixion "Lord forgive them".  Jesus never insisted those crucifying him repent in order to be forgiven, neither should you insist it.  Forgive them anyway, as you would like to be forgiven.
Link Posted: 12/19/2018 11:10:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Okay thanks guys
Link Posted: 12/19/2018 3:28:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Okay, I have a question.  I hope I am able to explain what I am trying to ask.

We are forgiven of our sins if we ask the Lord's forgiveness and repent.

Likewise we are commanded to forgive those who have sinned against us.

- BUT -

Does said forgiveness be automatically required by us?  For example, we are not automatically forgiven (or are we?) unless we apologize and ask for his grace.  So, does an offending party have to be sorry for their wrongs on us and apologize to require our forgiveness?
View Quote
The word "Automatically" implies some sort of legal construct or rules based interaction, and this whole interaction is definitely not a legal transaction.

You are (supposedly) a member of God's family. Think of you and your father, or you and your children and how that interaction goes regarding forgiveness. If you want to be in God's family, you should do as he does. It is what Christ did, it is what all of God's children should do.
Link Posted: 12/19/2018 4:30:04 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:

The word "Automatically" implies some sort of legal construct or rules based interaction, and this whole interaction is definitely not a legal transaction.

You are (supposedly) a member of God's family. Think of you and your father, or you and your children and how that interaction goes regarding forgiveness. If you want to be in God's family, you should do as he does. It is what Christ did, it is what all of God's children should do.
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Maybe I've been misunderstanding.  When I sin, I try to go before the Lord to apologize and beg his forgiveness.  Are you saying that is not necessary to be absolved of my wrongdoing?
Link Posted: 12/19/2018 4:48:26 PM EDT
[#7]
As humans are we able to give grace?   I think no.
Link Posted: 12/19/2018 6:06:04 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Maybe I've been misunderstanding.  When I sin, I try to go before the Lord to apologize and beg his forgiveness.  Are you saying that is not necessary to be absolved of my wrongdoing?
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Is God obliged under some sort of rules to forgive you. No.  Does he out of love. Yes. If you beg forgiveness, it does not oblige God (or his chosen judge Jesus) to declare you righteous, and if you don't beg, it doesn't mean God won't declare you righteous.

The question is: Are you one of his children? What is the nature of your relationship?

Is your approach that God is a cosmic wishing well? Or is your approach that God is your Father and you wish to please him? The efficacy of the begging forgiveness depends on the heart behind it. God doesn't need anything to declare you righteous, if you are one of his children he will want to and nothing will stop him.  If you aren't one of his children, no amount of begging will suffice, as Cain and Esau will attest.
Link Posted: 12/19/2018 8:50:19 PM EDT
[#9]
I've had questions much like OPs so I followed along. My questions are answered. Guys, thank you.
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 9:32:10 AM EDT
[#10]
Ok another question:

What if the offending person is NOT sorry and DOES NOT regret or feel bad for what they did to you?  They do not apologize or beg forgiveness.  Do we still forgive?

Similarly, what if we commit sin but are not sorry and do not repent?  Does God still forgive?
Link Posted: 12/20/2018 10:53:38 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
Ok another question:

What if the offending person is NOT sorry and DOES NOT regret or feel bad for what they did to you?  They do not apologize or beg forgiveness.  Do we still forgive?
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Quoted:
Ok another question:

What if the offending person is NOT sorry and DOES NOT regret or feel bad for what they did to you?  They do not apologize or beg forgiveness.  Do we still forgive?
Put yourself into the role of Jesus (God's appointed judge) and think about the answer.

Quoted:
Similarly, what if we commit sin but are not sorry and do not repent?  Does God still forgive?
Life is a long long time despite being so short. God will give you many opportunities to grow and repent. And some baggage you will take to the judgment seat.

If you really get into the laws Paul is teaching about in Hebrews where he claims that our high priest can separate the "soul and the spirit", what he is saying is that our high priest can cut the soulish (things of adam) and leave the spiritual things (things of Christ). This is something the Levitical priests could not do. They had to accept or reject the whole animal. Whereas in Christ, we have a priest who can remove the bad parts and keep the things he wants to keep.
Link Posted: 12/21/2018 10:24:26 AM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
Ok another question:

What if the offending person is NOT sorry and DOES NOT regret or feel bad for what they did to you?  They do not apologize or beg forgiveness.  Do we still forgive?

Similarly, what if we commit sin but are not sorry and do not repent?  Does God still forgive?
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The prodigal son had to come home first.
Link Posted: 12/26/2018 12:25:57 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
Maybe I've been misunderstanding.  When I sin, I try to go before the Lord to apologize and beg his forgiveness.  Are you saying that is not necessary to be absolved of my wrongdoing?
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It's natural to experience remorse when we fall short of living a godly life. However, we are forgiven of all sins (past, present, and future) the instant we believe the gospel. There is nothing we can add to it... by His grace alone through faith alone. There are no requirements to continually 'top-off' our forgiveness to either get saved, or stay saved. It was finished at the cross.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

Ephesians 1:6-7
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Ephesians 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Hebrews 1:1-3
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high.

Colossians 1:14,21,22
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins... And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.
Link Posted: 12/27/2018 4:08:56 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Ok another question:

What if the offending person is NOT sorry and DOES NOT regret or feel bad for what they did to you?  They do not apologize or beg forgiveness.  Do we still forgive?

Similarly, what if we commit sin but are not sorry and do not repent?  Does God still forgive?
View Quote
If you sin and you are NOT sorry, do you truly have a repentant spirit...

As for forgiving others, it can't matter to us what's in their hearts when it comes to forgiving them, though it should matter from the standpoint of we should be praying for those that wrong us to have their hearts softened
Link Posted: 12/29/2018 12:41:29 PM EDT
[#15]
You cannot ignore that even with the redemption of Christ that there will be a final judgement.
"Forgive us our trespasses as we have forgive those who trespass against us..." means we will be forgiven in the same way we have forgiven others.
To forgive in this context, removes our judgement and allows the judgement of God.

The challenge of forgiveness in our poor humanity is to be able to share heaven (hoping an offender seeks the compassion and forgiveness of Our Divine Lord, above ours)
This is a powerful statement we agree to when we pray the Our Father and sometimes easier said than done.

If we just lived the words of the Our Father every day..
1. Our Father who art in Heaven:  Greeting  God and recognizing His divinity and where we are not in God's Kingdom.... yet.
2. Hallowed be Thy name... God's name is the name of above all others and there are no name greater... we accept and defer any preconceived power we think we have here)
3. Thy Kingdom come.... deference to God as creator and King and a desire for us to be part of that Kingdom...to be with God.
4. Thy WILL be done... God's WILL and only God's will is our desire and to the fulfillment of it our service
On earth as it is in heaven. .... Think about that for a second... How far off is this world we are condemned to that we neglect the desire to do the will of our God here... and in Heaven it's Pefrect and pure.
5. Give us this day, our daily bread... Gratitude and begging for the basic necessities to sustain this life for only today. (God's Grace should always be enough)
6. And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us... We ask for God's to forgives us (because we are sinners are we are going to fail) in the same manner that we extend this to those who offend us. (Here we see a huge sin in the now easily OFFENDED world... The world needs a lot of Our Fathers . We should be worried about offending God and less worried about offending those whoa re doing wrong.  I am a professional grudge holder  so how do you think this is going to go for me in the end?)
7. Lead us not into temptation ... but deliver us from all evil. (Give us the strength to choose Christ and obey the commandments, keeps us from falling into evil)
For Thine is the Kingdom the Power and the Glory.... Ends as we began (again we give ourselves completely to God and recognize His Divinity and our humility.)

Our Lord Jesus knows us so well.
my unworthy 2 cents.
Link Posted: 1/4/2019 5:20:09 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Ok another question:

What if the offending person is NOT sorry and DOES NOT regret or feel bad for what they did to you?  They do not apologize or beg forgiveness.  Do we still forgive?

Similarly, what if we commit sin but are not sorry and do not repent?  Does God still forgive?
View Quote
Made the mistake many times of forgiving someone that wasn't sorry, and it didn't go well.

While I now believe that forgiving when it is not deserved is still the right thing to do, trusting and believing in the person is a separate issue from forgiving.

Some people will destroy all the good you work to build without a second thought as to the consequences of their actions. I can forgive such people, but keep a safe distance.

We are all in need of forgiveness from God, and at some point in our lives the forgiveness of other people. I try to keep the perspective that even though I am repentant, I am on thin ice, and need the Lord's help constantly. Makes it easier to accept the major screw ups of others.

We pray that God forgives the sins we know, and the ones we don't know we committed. His Grace covers it all.
Link Posted: 1/4/2019 6:17:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Forgiveness is for the person who was wronged, not the person who did the wrong. You can give forgiveness, but it's up to them whether they want to accept it or not, and repentance is necessary to accept forgiveness. You giving forgiveness does not require them to repent first. Repentance is only required for them to receive it.

Jesus has forgiven all of our sins, saved or unsaved. Basically He put a blank check on the table, but it's up to us to sign and cash it. Most people will leave the check on the table, but that doesn't change the fact that they have already been bought and paid for.

And forgiveness doesn't mean ignorance. You can forgive someone, but that doesn't mean you allow yourself to be further victimized by them. Even if they repent, trust must be reestablished. For example, you might forgive a cheating girlfriend, but that doesn't mean you're going to marry her. It just means you don't harbor evil wishes against her and won't seek to punish her. Doesn't mean you will ever trust her again.

Or let's say you loan someone money and they don't pay you back. Forgiveness means you're not going to hire mafia enforcers to go break their legs. It doesn't mean you're going to loan them money again.

Another example are all the victims of violent crime who publicly forgive their attackers in court and appeal to them to get saved. It does not mean that they're going to recommend that person for parole.
Link Posted: 1/4/2019 11:55:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Love is the greatest commandment. Remember that and I believe everything else will follow.

Jesus explained what I’m talking about.
Link Posted: 1/4/2019 11:57:39 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
If you sin and you are NOT sorry, do you truly have a repentant spirit...

As for forgiving others, it can't matter to us what's in their hearts when it comes to forgiving them, though it should matter from the standpoint of we should be praying for those that wrong us to have their hearts softened
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok another question:

What if the offending person is NOT sorry and DOES NOT regret or feel bad for what they did to you?  They do not apologize or beg forgiveness.  Do we still forgive?

Similarly, what if we commit sin but are not sorry and do not repent?  Does God still forgive?
If you sin and you are NOT sorry, do you truly have a repentant spirit...

As for forgiving others, it can't matter to us what's in their hearts when it comes to forgiving them, though it should matter from the standpoint of we should be praying for those that wrong us to have their hearts softened
Praying that they will be born again.

Even the likes of Hillary Clinton.
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