I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. I do not condone or recommend violating the law. I do not live in Florida. I am not seeking legal advice. This is simply a philosophical thought exercise and a question. For our legal eagles and armchair lawyers: Could the following points collectively potentially result in a viable defense against this statute?

State of Florida, Title XLVI, CRIMES Chapter 790 ,WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

"790.222 Bump-fire stocks prohibited.—A person may not import into this state or transfer, distribute, sell, keep for sale, offer for sale, possess, or give to another person a bump-fire stock. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this section, the term “bump-fire stock” means a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire or which is used to increase the rate of fire to a faster rate than is possible for a person to fire such semiautomatic firearm unassisted by a kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device."

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1. Based on the text of the statue, it seems that the "device" has to ALTER the rate of fire to mimic automatic weapon fire OR it has to INCREASE the rate of fire in order to be covered by this statute?

2. Definition of "alter" from Merriam-Webster online: "to make different without changing into something else"

3. Definition of "increase" from Merriam-Webster online: "to become progressively greater (as in size, amount, number, or intensity)"

4. Generally accepted definition of "rate of fire": "Rate of fire is the frequency at which a specific weapon can fire or launch its projectiles. It is usually measured in rounds per minute, or rounds per second."

5. When assembling a firearm using an AR-15/M16/M4 compatible receiver, the person is not assembling an AR-15/M16/M4 rifle or pistol. They are assembling a unique firearm of their own construction consisting of their unique selection of parts and components and firing their choice of cartridge. An AR-15/M16/M4 compatible receiver is simply the base for their new unique firearm.

6. A brand new, empty, and unassembled AR-15/M16/M4 compatible receiver has no inherent rate of fire; the initial rate of fire of the resulting firearm is determined by the components assembled into and onto the receiver.

7. If an AR-15/M16/M4 compatible receiver is initially assembled with a pull and release firing trigger (e.g. Binary, Echo) and the other related essential components that set the "rate of fire", the rate of fire has not been "altered" or "increased" for such semiautomatic firearm; it has not been made different or greater. The rate of fire is at its original, unALTERed, unINCREASEd rate for this unique, newly assembled firearm.

8. The burden of proof that such semiautomatic firearm was NOT originally assembled that way should lie with the state, not the possessor.

9. THEREFORE: A semiautomatic firearm, built from a new and unassembled AR-15/M16/M4 compatible receiver which has a pull and release trigger installed as its original and only trigger has not had its rate of fire altered or increased, and should not be in violation of the statute.

Lawful? Legal defense? Loophole? Does the foundational logic seem sound? What are your thoughts?

Obviously a judge/jury would have to agree with these points. No, I'm not volunteering to be the test case.

You make a good argument, but it'll cost tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, an arrest record, and potential criminal conviction to test.

I think it would be more to the point to just argue that the rate of fire of the gun is determined by how long it takes the action to cycle.  Binary triggers and the like do not alter this mechanical limit of the gun, they simply make it easier for the user to reach this rate.

@BackBencher

the lego signal was activated

I like this train of thought. But as was stated. The state will break the hickory shampoo off in your ass. It'll rely on your pocketbook being big enough to remove it.

So Florida banned Legos?  And small pieces of wood?

Agree.

The design (original FCG) can only be physically or mechanically manipulated so fast... it can't be increased beyond the initial/general design limitations, even with a bump stock, when sticking with a standard FCG.

I suppose changing triggers changes this legal approach as now you're not using a factory or originally designed FCG... thus the altering will/might come into play.

It's a bad law but will cost someone a bunch of $$$ to suggest this in court... and in the end, the trier of fact may still disagree.

I know this is an old post. But I have a question. I use to see that vendors would not ship and had Florida listed as one of the prohibited states.

States that they would not ship the binary triggers to.

Now on Franklin's web site they list Florida. But what I've noticed now is that there are retailers who will sell and ship binary triggers to Florida.

They do not have Florida listed as a ban state on their web site also.

These are well known retailers also. Not some podock run by the night ma and pa retailers either.

So what's changed in their minds about this ignorant law. Are binary triggers legally approved by ATF are bumpstocks still legally approved by ATF.

Because if so how can someone be prosecuted for something legal. I know it's a stupid question to even ask. But to be made a felon over something that's legal. I find confusing.

Plus a violation of our rights. There are way too many laws that counter each other. Cross an imaginary line and your a felon.

I do not believe a state law should trump federal laws as it pertains to the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

It's kinda like preventing counties in a state from have their own gun laws that are different from the state's law.

Imagine in a state if you crossed county lines you could become an instant felon. Because in one county binary triggers were legal to own. Yet in the next county having one would make you an instant felon.

Even though they were deemed perfectly legal to own by ATF.

I hope I kinda make sense. Because it just confusing. Remember the lady with no criminal record that mistakenly getting on a bridge years ago. That took her in NJ.

She got profiled because of her tag and stopped. She had her CCW AND GOT ARRESTED. Even having a empty spent ammo case can get you arrested.

A simple accident of getting lost and on a wrong road lands you in jail. All because you cross an imaginary line. Plus nationally she broke no laws. Imagine this the CONSTITUTION and the BILL OF RIGHTS actually granted and protected this woman's rights.

In truth NJ broke the law and violated her rights. If you look at it CONSTITUTIONALLY.

I'm rambling sorry. I just am dumbfounded how something that is 100% legal to own. Can make you a felon.

@Miami_JBT and I discussed this in a different thread a long time ago as the law was written fast and loose ripe for abuse, an overzealous prosecutor could in theory apply the text of the law to just about ANY aftermarket trigger.
Not just binary triggers. So if fuddy duddy with a custom race 1911 shows up to a competition and suppose FDLE or overzealous LEO agent is present to make an example, that 1911 with trigger work could have the text applied...

Since binaries aren't listed specifically like other states that have? I think it was only initially retailers fearing being tied up in connection with fast and loose interpretation... precautionary measure...

Not sure if the whole on goings with the restoring of 18-20 year olds to purchase a firearm lawsuit has anything to do with it either...

I see, I'm going to buy another one. When this whole stupid thing came out I sold mine. But I'm over it.

I remember when they would not ship to Florida. But now they do.

I swear if another CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN runs against Scott he's gone. I hate that sob.

My other problem is the taking of property without just compensation. I could be wrong. But I do believe there is a law against that.

I mean these triggers are close to 400.00 and to hsve some ELECTED REPRESENTIVES we put into office. Take it upon themselves to violate our rights. Then say oh well. We put them there.

We can remove them. We are the power. We are the government. So far all we've been doing is choosing between the lesser of two evils. They know this also.

You can not take people's property without compensation. To tell them oh well, turn it in or destroy it. No how about you get voted out. Then if enough of us say no at one time. What are they going to do. We out number them in every way.



Link

One could argue that working out my finger to a point I can press the trigger faster than the cyclic rate of a full auto fire is not considered breaking FL law?

Attached File



OTOH, I can stick out my middle finger, hold the rifle around my crotch area (and pointed away from said crotch), do that little front/back motion and that's also legit.

Another point that would absolutely have a edge in the inevitable narrative for both the FL ban as well as the NFA definition of a mg is the use of prosthetic hands to fire the rifle.  It would be increasing the rate of fire (compared to using a stump) which qualifies it for the FL law and also is a mechanical device manipulating the trigger which hits the fed law.  Need a double amputee vet to sue the shit out of FL and the fed to squash these laws.

Who's that guy that can bump fire a flock so fast it's unbelievable. I watched a video of it and it blew me way..

Btw the only reason I guess this bothers me so much.

Is people being told they must depose of something perfectly legal until one man out of millions used it in a crime.

Then all of a sudden everyone that had/has one was a potential villain. Then the stealing of property. Just telling people they must turn it in or destroy it.

This really upset me. You'd become an instant felon and lose all you CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

Just because a group of people the WE elected into office decided they again knew what was better for us than we did.

Kinda like this virus. They know what's better for us than we do. Based upon a bunch of jacked up data. That's been proven wrong, falsified and changed so many times no one knows what's going on.

But they know what's better for us than we do. Yeah to the point they are/were about to destroy a nation.

Most as usual just for political gain and reasons. Like they've always said. Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Exactly like guns. Everything is based on jacked up data, falsified information that no one knows what's true.

Remember the guy that went to BASS PRO and tried to buy a used gun because he thought there was a loophole. Based upon all the lies by the LEFT WING NEWS MEDIA and SOCIALIST DEMOCRATS.

That no paperwork or background checks were needed if you bought a used gun. When told that there was.

He actually argued telling BASS PRO they were wrong. To the point L.E had to be call and he was escorted out of store and banned from ever coming back.

I don't know. I guess I'm tired of being told I'm too stupid to make decisions as to what's best for myself and these elected officials are.

That's not what we put them into office to do.