For persec I can't give a location etc. but something strange happened near us a couple of weeks ago. I suspect the "constable" involved made some bad decisions in a hunt for glory to help his effort to further his political ambitions.

Bad guy (armed) was approached and apprehended in a VERY public and crowded place using the constables wifes car as his vehicle. Constable was unaware that the bad guy had a "lookout" across the street from the combination filling station/store. Bad guy was at a gas pump with people around as well as inside the store. Probably 10-12 normal folks doing normal things. It looks to me that the constable exposed EVERYBODY to a potential shootout by doing this as opposed to having multiple back up officers ( they were available but told to not respond after he originally asked for them) and waiting for the bad guy to leave the gas station so he could be stopped in a less crowded area say a mile or so down the road ( very rural area).

I'm curious about the "exposure" to harm the constable created for all the citizens and the property owner as well as the taxpayers if this arrest had gone horribly wrong. The way I see it is the doctrine of overwhelming force should have been applied but I'm not LEO and don't really know the rules.

I've never really understood what constables do

I think I've seen one in my entire life

Sounds like botched bust made by Tulsa County Sheriff Office "undercover" agents conducting a felony gun buy at the edge of a (predominantly black) elementary school playground, resulting in shots fired and suspect killed

total school "lock down", about 500 children endangered

Ahh, constables. Life is never boring.

The FBI is notorious for this.

They try to take down armed robbery crews on their own, don't tell any local LE that they're doing it (because state & local LE are all 'corrupt pieces of shit') and wind up getting shot. Often, by each other.

In Texas they act like process servers, so they serve subpoenas, temporary restraining orders, eviction notices and warrants as well as write traffic tickets in their AO.  They are just another layer of beans in the 7 layer burrito known as texas law enforcement.  We literally have a leo org for just about everything down here.

If you use a warrant to arrest them at their house and someone gets hurt, its "should have got them at the store when they went out".

If you try to pull them over and they speed off and kill someone or cause a wreck, it's "why didn't they arrest them at their house". Your hypothetical stop down the road could have become a high speed chase.

If you try to arrest them when they are out of their car pumping gas, it's "what if they had a lookout across the street", apparently.

There is risk involved no matter what. I don't know the situation and a constable being the main party does make it sound a bit odd, but they do have the legal authority. I agree with your suspicions as to possible political motivations, but more information would be good, as outside of him commandeering his wife's vehicle, it's just a cop arresting someone essentially.

At the same time, how in the world would the constable know there was a lookout UNLESS it was a public location used by the guy for his business ventures? They don't normally just call up a buddy to do overwatch at any random gas station. If that is where he often deals, that sounds more like he just made a pickup or dropoff and in that case there is substantial value in grabbing him at that location. It doesn't sound like the guy just nabbed him at buccees.

There is a trade off in all things and sometimes backup can't get there in time, especially if it is a good location to get him- and honestly, pumping gas at the store on his own is a pretty great time to grab someone. There is no realistic way to expect an officer to generally know that someone has a lookout "across the street" without substantial outside information.

When was the last friendly fire incident that they had? Asking for a friend.

Allowing an armed wanted suspect access to a vehicle to drive away is rarely the best choice. You are likely giving him the push to flee.

The OP is being vague as to what it was, where it was, what the wanted person did, and so on. So, a fair review can't be done. Every single public takedown has a risk to innocent parties.

Before today, I'd only heard of a constable in the context of British law enforcement officers. And most of that is from watching Hot Fuzz.

The Texas constable thing seems to be an unnecessary duplication of what a Sheriff does. They're both elected, they both do some law enforcement, serve papers and subpoenas and such. And given that a constable is an elected position, there's always the risk that they'll do something to look better at the next election which may or may not be the best thing for community safety and justice.

https://www.county.org/About-Texas-Counties/About-Texas-County-Officials/Texas-County-Sheriff/%E2%80%8BWhat-s-the-Difference-Between-Sheriff,-Police-and

I also like that the link above specifically mentions that they're also responsible for gathering up stray cattle. Very Texas.

Was the arrest made without harming anyone? If so, you are just asking a bunch of what if questions that really aren't relevant.

I don't mean to be vague but I suppose I was. My Sheriff shared a LOT with me (all public info) that didn't make into the news article. I was handed an e-mail describing the suspect as a part of the "Cuban Mafia" out of Houston Tx. It said the suspect would be armed most likely. The reason for the suspect being at the gas station was that he had, at an earlier date, stolen over 1000 gallons of diesel by "rigging" the pump at this location. He was back for seconds with a camera mounted inside the fuel pump this time. The "constable" had previously told the Sheriff that he wanted to be Sheriff and will be running against him in the next election. My concern is that this constable may be dumber than a box of rocks and full of testosterone instead of brain matter. The major County Commissioner is from the same precinct as the constable and in an executive session the Sheriff and this Commissioner had "harsh words" (Sheriffs' words).

I had a battle with the State of Texas over a Workers Comp issues decades ago that cost me $200K because they claimed that I created "exposure" by my actions and to this day I disagree BUT settling was the best thing for us to do so we did. I'm seeing a similarity here in that the actions by the constable put many people/entities at risk in my opinion. In addition the suspect , post arrest, became combative and apparently knocked himself out. The constable stated that "he's ok" and doesn't need medical attention. The Sheriff refused to accept him as a prisoner because the suspect hadn't been cleared by an MD. It was a big mess. Two OTHER Sheriffs in adjoining counties refuse to take the suspect without medical clearance as well.

I'm trying to help the Sheriff get a plan of attack together to throttle this constable and the supporting Commissioner. It looks to me like the facts and the truth are on my Sheriffs' side but I'd like some input from those here that are "in the know" about the rules etc.

Bob Bates????

https://ktul.com/news/local/former-reserve-deputy-robert-bates-speaks-out-for-the-first-time

Sounds like you're friends or tight with the sheriff, receiving a biased story from a friend about a political rival, and beat up about a cop arresting a guy believed to be involved with organized crime at the same location he just stole 1000 gallons of fuel... because it could have gotten someone hurt?

I bet you won't have to look hard to find a deputy who had to go sit with a detainee at the hospital because the jail wouldn't take him, or a case where someone got hurt during an unplanned arrest.

I can't imagine a sheriff telling a deputy NOT to arrest someone wanted for that when they were in public, so it really sounds like a pissing match. How many people do you think get arrested at Walmart or dollar general? Plenty of them have violent records and tendencies.

LEO get dumb and petty over interagency bullshit all the time. Everyone wants to get the big busts and never do the boring shit. Sounds like same old same old.

If you want uniform rules about felony stops, there aren't any. But I bet that felony warrant he served had some language about how any officer with powers of arrest is to immediately bring the accused before a magistrate.

I watched some type of federal LEO take a dude down on the interstate.  I was driving behind a luxury SUV when 2 black suburbans cut between the SUV and my car.  Then the 2 suburbans lit the lights up, followed by a bunch of guys in plate carriers and ARs pouring out of both trucks.  It seems pretty well orchestrated.

I've not known my Sheriff to embellish things. He's a Preacher as well. I'm sure that the info I got in writing was 100% true and I'd bet that what he told me was true as well. MY Constable told me years ago that the Sheriffs office was not always helpful in the past. Our present Sheriff has been in place for two years and so far has done a good job doing Sheriff stuff. We're in a VERY rural area with huge response times due to manpower limitations as well as travel times. Appx. 45 minutes from one side of the county to the other. Constables here set their own hours but are essentially on call 24/7. As for the Constable in question,,,he seems to have some type of an issue legally not related to this event. The Sheriff didn't expand and I didn't inquire. My goal here is NOT to see my friend bushwacked by a Commissioner that thinks having a pet Sheriff would be a good thing. Our area has had some MAJOR corruption issues in the past for a DA along with a Judge and a City Marshall. All I want to do is to become educated enough to help him expose the errors made by the constable and move on down the road.

It’s always best to let the uniformed officer make the arrest, always. Back them up, but they have the power of the radio. During my former career, I’ve lost some high profile targets that I recognized because I couldn’t get a uniform there in time. I had my family with me, and I will not put them in danger knowingly. No way.

I’m an elected constable BTW. That and .50 cents will get you some coffee. A TN constable is different that a TX constable, at least in pay. TN constable is non paid. Still law enforcement, but not organized and salaried like Texas does it. I’m good with that.

I'm guessing there has to be something to it but there don't seem to be any errors. You just said it yourself, the area has big response times.

An officer of the law, while off duty and in a personally owned vehicle, arrested a wanted person at the scene of their alleged past crimes. The person became combative and the officer still handled it and presumably was not injured himself. That sounds like the kind of cop I'd want as top cop.

If there is a problem here, you really haven't articulated it. Yes, people get arrested in public, and the way you sold it makes it sound like the constable went above and beyond while off duty to arrest someone after attempting to get assistance for service from those on duty. That's the big part- according to you he tried to get uniformed assistance, was rebuffed, then took care of business himself.

I know we don't have the details, but if the cat was that dangerous that the sheriff is afraid to arrest him in broad daylight, he should have had his tac team out looking for him. Again, I'm not saying there wasnt a problem with the arrest or method of it- but the way you present it sounds like he deserves praise, not scorn, and the sheriff is being petty.

I would be willing to bet the arrest probably fouled up an ongoing investigation or planned arrest for the sheriff... but that's just my speculation after being in similar situations.

I didn't mean to confuse you. The Constable DID ask for uniforms to assist. He then went ahead with two other constables that happened to "be in the area" and CANCELLED his request for the Sheriff Units. I'm so out of my wheelhouse on police customs/plans/rules that I can't have an opinion. That's why I'm here.

I don't know, man. The constable was legally within his rights, even if felony warrant service isn't their main thing. Plenty of states have officers with "full service" power, they just don't use it unless required or it is necessary. Think of all the specialized agencies for a given state, that sort of thing. Sounds like he used it pretty well.

I'm just not seeing the problem. Your issue was that it was an arrest in a populated public place, well, that happens, and getting a guy outside of his car- and he had two other officers with him? Sounds pretty well executed for a felony arrest to me.

Must have been a protestor who was at DC on Jan 6 waving a sign and chanting "Merica First!" Or maybe a concerned parent who yelled at a school board for exposing their kid to tranny porn in the school library.

From what I can surmise the real issue was the refusal of my Sheriff to take the prisoner because of the medical issue. It left the constable in a difficult situation BUT the rules (as explained to me) say that anytime their is an unconscious  person they MUST be cleared by an MD prior to the County Jail taking him.

Was he unconscious on arrival? Pretending to be unconscious? High and nodding in and out? Claimed to intake staff he had fallen unconscious? What do you do when your inmate suddenly starts bashing their head against something?

The jails ultimately are able to make the call as to requiring a medical determination, but I'd again be willing to bet you won't have to look far to find them turning away a deputy to go sit at the hospital for a checkout either. That just isn't all that unusual.

Again I'm not saying he was or wasnt wrong. Just that the events as you laid them out make it seem like he did very well, not poorly. There could be some particular detail we don't know that would have really made it seem bad.

So was the constable alone when he made the arrest, or did he have two other constables with him?

Honestly the entire constable/sheriff system sounds fucking retarded. Below a certain size, agencies tend to suck because they're too small to have any talent retention, training, or best practices. Merging the constables and sheriff's agencies would probably be the best possible use of resources, but I'm sure no one will do that because turf war.

To directly address your question: it all varies depending on circumstance. There's plenty of times when a takedown at a public location may be the only feasible call. Personally, I'd prefer to have as safe and empty of a backstop as possible so I don't have to worry about where bullets might go.

That said, I have a much harder time with the idea of initiating a felony stop solo, and canceling backup units. If he cancelled deputies because his constables were closer, that's fine. If he went solo cowboy because he's too stupid to see the risks, that's not fine.

Medical clearance for an arrestee is like ordering fries with your burger at McD's. Absolutely nothing out of the ordinary there, but if the constable has only made five arrests in their career and never fought someone, I'm going to guess they were discombobulated by the idea of jail clearance paperwork. I'm highly skeptical of the "he just randomly knocked himself out!" part though. Guessing constables don't have bodycams, and guessing constables might be a bit lax about use of force policies...

Sound like the typical small town political pissing match to me,  I'd stay far away from all concerned.

The jail is not REQUIRED to take a prisoner. Medical refusals are pretty much a fact of life and the constable should have that somewhere in policy and procedure.

In Texas they are 100% statewide, 24/7 cops. Like all Texas cops.  They go through the same state mandated academy that every other Texas cop must go through.

But their Job is to serve the justice of the peace courts. Bailiff the court and serve the courts papers and warrants.   Besides running some traffic and backing up other agencies while out and about, some stick to that mission.  Some are full service agencies that do everything.   There are constables with hundreds of deputies.

Me neither, never bothered to look it up either....

Link about Constables in the US.

In my eyes they are pretty close to a sheriff or maybe Deputy.

Seems their responsibilities differ from state and there are over 25 states that have them...
I honestly, thought it was a UK or Canadian thing, not a US thing.  Never seen one.

LEO of any type held responsible for the side effects of their heroic actions ?  Hahahhaha....

Geez- the more you expand the info on this story, the less stupid it sounds.  OK he had 2 cover people onscene, made the arrest no problem, and then screwed around trying to book him in when the guy injured himself instead of just taking him to a hospital?  

The only point of concern is the lack of medical care, though it takes almost nothing for a jail to refuse a prisoner these days.  Fucking liability is so ridiculous, and nobody wants to babysit someone at a hospital for 24 hrs.

Stop worrying about it.  Sounds like the layers of law in TX need to work together a little better is all.  Thought it was bad that we had city, county, and state agencies all in the same area all the time...

Plan of attack?? Dude.... the guy is a credit card thief. Nothing else. Part of an organized ring tied to the communist govt. and supporting people within Cuba. Mafia?? Never heard of it called that. If he has that much knowledge to call them the Cuban Mafia, I would love to have him do a presentation on it.

The Cubans know they can't be deported. They know the financial crime is not likely to mean prison or a very short stint. They know that adding a gun or violence will mean a long prison sentence.

We don't get people cleared by doctors UNLESS there is a substantial injury and a jail nurse is too concerned to allow entry. Otherwise, an EMT clearance is pretty standard for minor injuries.  

So, in the end, this is a big nothing. Sorry, but don't waste your time. I would tell you the truth if it had some validity and this sure doesn't look like it.

Guys,,this is a no sweat off my nose deal. I just like my Sheriff and I'm trying to help him. We discuss all kinds of stuff from radio towers top permitless carry. I try to be a good sounding board for him on fiscal matters as well. We need a new jail and I have his ear on that as well since I was in the construction biz. Something is not right here with this event and I, as mentioned, am NOT LEO. After attending the commissioners court meeting this week I was shocked at the informality of it all. Roberts Rules of Order don't apply here lol. New Jail is $20M. Fuel budget for 2022 was exhausted by Oct. last year. We are a POOR county. Chief Deputy was removed due to a DWI. Another Deputy rolled his car. It is not an easy place to be a Sheriff I suspect.

My cousin was just elected a Constable last Nov, and I have no idea what he does.

Around me they used to write speeding tickets as a fill-in when the County needed a hand.
I haven’t seen one in years; I don’t know if we even have them any more.

While this is mostly true, some of the more recent Cuban arrivals are serious gangbangers, and it seems like the ones congregating in Houston are pretty ganged up.  

On a side note, the US does have an agreement to deport Cubans again, since November, but AFAIK the current administration hasn't actually made any moves to do so.  I know for a fact there are at least 10s of thousands of Cuban convicts with final orders and no remaining appeals.  ICE would take years to get rid of them all even if they stopped worrying about every other nationality

Cuba won't take them for criminal deportation UNLESS there is a reason they want them. It is a 1st attempt at an agreement. If they have committed serious crimes, they are saying no for now. Minor criminals are the 1st group. The best the US can do is allow them to travel to Cuba and then deny them upon their attempt to re-enter. It is the only way that works right now and it is very effective.