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Posted: 1/13/2022 9:21:52 PM EST

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/13/feds-say-they-used-encrypted-messages-to-charge-oath-keepers-leader.html

"Federal investigators say they accessed encrypted Signal messages sent before the Jan. 6, 2021, riot on the U.S. Capitol, and used them as evidence to charge the leader of Oath Keepers, an extremist far-right militia group, and other defendants in a seditious plot.

In a legal complaint made public on Thursday, the Department of Justice alleges the defendants conspired to forcefully oppose the transfer of power between then-President Donald Trump to Joe Biden, including by trying to take control of the U.S. Capitol.

The complaint references numerous messages sent on Signal, an end-to-end encrypted messaging app, raising questions about how authorities accessed them and recalling a longstanding point of tension between the law enforcement community and tech industry. Encryption scrambles messages for recipients so that no one else — not even the platform itself — can read them.

WATCH NOW
VIDEO03:32
Oath Keepers leader charged with seditious conspiracy
It’s not clear how investigators gained access to the messages used in the arrest of the far-right group leader, Stewart Rhodes, and other defendants. Representatives for Signal, the Department of Justice, and Federal Bureau of Investigation did not immediately respond to CNBC’s requests for comment.

One possibility is that a recipient with access to the messages handed them over to investigators. The complaint references group messages run on the app, so it’s possible a participant in those chats cooperated.

Encryption has been a point of controversy between investigators and tech companies for years. While law enforcement officers worry that criminals will exploit encrypted technology to hide wrongdoing, tech companies like Apple have taken the privacy side of the argument.

Investigators have in the past tried to get tech companies to open their devices to assist in probing serious crimes, but companies like Apple argue that if they break encryption, it will jeopardize the entire system and potentially help foreign adversaries to exploit weaknesses.

The issue gained particular prominence in 2015, when Apple refused to break the encryption of a suspect’s iPhone in the wake of a mass shooting in San Bernardino, Calif. After a tense standoff, investigators were eventually able to break the encryption without Apple’s help.

But some law enforcement specialists have said newer security features on iPhone software now makes it harder for them to technically access those devices, even if they are able to obtain a warrant.

The issue came up again under the Trump administration, including when Facebook, now known as Meta Platforms, announced plans to stitch together all of its messaging services and encrypt them from end to end. Investigators said the plans would hamper their ability to clamp down on child sexual abuse material on the platform."
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:22:35 PM EST
[#1]
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:23:03 PM EST
[#2]
So in other words, they had an informant.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:23:14 PM EST
[#3]
Someone gave them to them
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:24:59 PM EST
[#4]
Yep. They didn't crack shit. They had someone in the group.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:25:42 PM EST
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By IAm4:
So in other words, they had an informant.
View Quote

I would bet on that being the case 99/100 times, but it's also possible they just compromised his device beforehand.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:25:43 PM EST
[#6]
TLDR...



...fuck the fed
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:26:33 PM EST
[#7]
Well it should be interesting to see if they ignore the 4th or do an end-around to use the info in court.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:26:56 PM EST
[#8]
HEY GUYS WE CAN TOTALLY CRACK SIGNAL SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST STOP USING IT
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:27:48 PM EST
[#9]
lol
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:27:51 PM EST
[#10]
Keystroke logger or someone gave it up.
Will be interested to see how Signal responds to this.
But good chance they have already gotten a STFU letter from DoJ.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:28:14 PM EST
[#11]
Shhhh they might know "the chairs against the door"
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:28:18 PM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ranxerox911:
Well it should be interesting to see if they ignore the 4th or do an end-around to use the info in court.
View Quote

99.99% somebody in a signal chat just gave them access to their device or credentials. Why SigInt when you can HumInt?
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:28:45 PM EST
[#13]
Informant.  You get that many people in a secure communication, you can bet it isn't secure.

Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:29:15 PM EST
[#14]
DRINK LESS OVALTINE
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:29:41 PM EST
[#15]
OathKeepers has a stranger in their house. Someone is a Fed CI and handed over the chats.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:29:54 PM EST
[#16]
Originally Posted By BlazerGuy:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/13/feds-say-they-used-encrypted-messages-to-charge-oath-keepers-leader.html

"Federal investigators say they accessed encrypted Signal messages sent before the Jan. 6, 2021, riot on the U.S. Capitol, and used them as evidence to charge the leader of Oath Keepers, an extremist far-right militia group, and other defendants in a seditious plot.

In a legal complaint made public on Thursday, the Department of Justice alleges the defendants conspired to forcefully oppose the transfer of power between then-President Donald Trump to Joe Biden, including by trying to take control of the U.S. Capitol.

The complaint references numerous messages sent on Signal, an end-to-end encrypted messaging app, raising questions about how authorities accessed them and recalling a longstanding point of tension between the law enforcement community and tech industry. Encryption scrambles messages for recipients so that no one else — not even the platform itself — can read them.

WATCH NOW
VIDEO03:32
Oath Keepers leader charged with seditious conspiracy
It’s not clear how investigators gained access to the messages used in the arrest of the far-right group leader, Stewart Rhodes, and other defendants. Representatives for Signal, the Department of Justice, and Federal Bureau of Investigation did not immediately respond to CNBC’s requests for comment.

One possibility is that a recipient with access to the messages handed them over to investigators. The complaint references group messages run on the app, so it’s possible a participant in those chats cooperated.

Encryption has been a point of controversy between investigators and tech companies for years. While law enforcement officers worry that criminals will exploit encrypted technology to hide wrongdoing, tech companies like Apple have taken the privacy side of the argument.

Investigators have in the past tried to get tech companies to open their devices to assist in probing serious crimes, but companies like Apple argue that if they break encryption, it will jeopardize the entire system and potentially help foreign adversaries to exploit weaknesses.

The issue gained particular prominence in 2015, when Apple refused to break the encryption of a suspect’s iPhone in the wake of a mass shooting in San Bernardino, Calif. After a tense standoff, investigators were eventually able to break the encryption without Apple’s help.

But some law enforcement specialists have said newer security features on iPhone software now makes it harder for them to technically access those devices, even if they are able to obtain a warrant.

The issue came up again under the Trump administration, including when Facebook, now known as Meta Platforms, announced plans to stitch together all of its messaging services and encrypt them from end to end. Investigators said the plans would hamper their ability to clamp down on child sexual abuse material on the platform."
View Quote



Meanwhile Epstein and Maxwell entrapped, bribed, and then raped and murdered kids

What a joke of a Law Enforcement group.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:30:06 PM EST
[#17]
Originally Posted By IAm4:
So in other words, they had an informant.
View Quote

Originally Posted By Star_Scream:
Someone gave them to them
View Quote

Originally Posted By NunyaBidness:
Yep. They didn't crack shit. They had someone in the group.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:30:33 PM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Erevis:
Informant.  You get that many people in a secure communication, you can bet it isn't secure.

https://i.imgur.com/AHtW4xy.png
View Quote


Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:30:45 PM EST
[#19]
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:31:30 PM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NunyaBidness:
Yep. They didn't crack shit. They had someone in the group.
View Quote

Of course.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:32:03 PM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By voodochild:
OathKeepers has a stranger in their house. Someone is a Fed CI and handed over the chats.
View Quote

Maybe it was a honeypot from the start? If the NRA can be the longest lived and highest funded antigun organization behind almost every gun bill in 100 years why can't some patriot group be a glue trap?
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:33:15 PM EST
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By IAm4:
So in other words, they had an informant.
View Quote



This was my take. Lets see if Signal says anything.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:35:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: nu3gawhat] [#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AKengineer:

Maybe it was a honeypot from the start? If the NRA can be the longest lived and highest funded antigun organization behind almost every gun bill in 100 years why can't some patriot group be a glue trap?
View Quote


If it wasn't from the start, it was as soon as they heard about it.

I don't know anything about signal, but it wouldn't be the first time an app like that has been used as a honey pot as well.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:38:27 PM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ranxerox911:
Well it should be interesting to see if they ignore the 4th or do an end-around to use the info in court.
View Quote


If an informant gave the to the feds there is no 4th amendment violation
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:39:36 PM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Erevis:
Informant.  You get that many people in a secure communication, you can bet it isn't secure.

https://i.imgur.com/AHtW4xy.png
View Quote


Hahaha I came here to post this
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:40:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: PatrickHangry] [#26]
In decreasing order of likelihood:
a. The group is over 50% infiltrated by FBI.
b. They have someone in the group.
c. The binaries in the app stores are compromised.
d. They remotely compromised the endpoints.
e. Someone smarter cracked a vulnerability in the software and gave it to them on a silver platter.
z. Someone smarter cracked the actual encryption cipher and gave it to them on a silver platter.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:41:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: Ranxerox911] [#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dahugo:


If an informant gave the to the feds there is no 4th amendment violation
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dahugo:
Originally Posted By Ranxerox911:
Well it should be interesting to see if they ignore the 4th or do an end-around to use the info in court.


If an informant gave the to the feds there is no 4th amendment violation

True enough. That's where the "end-around" comes into play.  Also wouldn't discount straight up stupidity on the Oath Keeper's part.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:43:35 PM EST
[#28]
You ever see posts from a drunk chick’s account, where she left her phone unlocked and in the possession of her friends, and they post “Hacked by your bestie!”?

Yeah. It was this. The feds are dumb women who think that they are clever.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:46:03 PM EST
[#29]
SOOOOO many issues to cover here.

No matter how secure you think your electronic communications are, they are never secure. It's stupid to trust them.

You can trust long term relationships to a point, but only to a point. Unless you live with them daily, you never really know if they've been compromised.

Even if you know and live with them, when the pressure is applied, are you SURE they won't squish on you?

Really, the best scenario is to know what needs to be done, do it on your own, and hope that people are smart enough, intrepid enough, and conscientious enough to follow example. No women, no kids.

Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:46:33 PM EST
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NunyaBidness:
Yep. They didn't crack shit. They had someone in the group.
View Quote


They are all feds

Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:47:45 PM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ranxerox911:
Well it should be interesting to see if they ignore the 4th or do an end-around to use the info in court.
View Quote



They have already ignored the 6th, so why get right now?
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:48:31 PM EST
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By voodochild:
OathKeepers has a stranger in their house. Someone is a Fed CI and handed over the chats.
View Quote



Maybe even a volunteer. OSINT people have made it a sport to infiltrate various groups and post spicy chats for later use.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:49:41 PM EST
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By trails-end:



They have already ignored the 6th, so why get right now?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By trails-end:
Originally Posted By Ranxerox911:
Well it should be interesting to see if they ignore the 4th or do an end-around to use the info in court.



They have already ignored the 6th, so why get right now?

Appearances.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:50:44 PM EST
[#34]
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:50:44 PM EST
[#35]
So, if the FBI knew before hand what was going down on the 6th, why didn't they arrest the big wigs before the 6th?...Something smells fishy..have to wonder if the FBI compromised the oath keepers and set them up for the fall...
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:50:55 PM EST
[#36]
And Anthony Weiner's laptop, containing the vilest crimes against humans, is ignored.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:50:57 PM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By IAm4:
So in other words, they had an informant.
View Quote



This. If signal is as secure is they say it is, someone would have to give them access to a device.

Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:53:10 PM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Colt1860:
HEY GUYS WE CAN TOTALLY CRACK SIGNAL SO YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST STOP USING IT
View Quote


This.

They are trying to destroy trust
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:54:08 PM EST
[#39]
If they had one of the phones, they can extract the messages off of it.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:54:09 PM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By IAm4:
So in other words, they had an informant.
View Quote




you miss the obvious possibility.  The Feds could purport any message as what they decrypted it as.   You send “pick up paint for signs” and they decrypt “capture Nancy’s rolodex and handle of vodka”.

Anything goes with them anymore.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:54:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: kallnojoy] [#41]
Koincadink?

2 days ago...

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59937614#:~:text=Moxie%20Marlinspike%2C%20the%20co%2Dfounder,w­hich%20has%20concerned%20some%20users

Moxie Marlinspike, the co-founder and chief executive of encrypted-messaging app Signal, has resigned.
He blogged it was a "good time to replace myself as CEO" after working on Signal for over a decade.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:54:43 PM EST
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SeanTX:
Keystroke logger or someone gave it up.
Will be interested to see how Signal responds to this.
But good chance they have already gotten a STFU letter from DoJ.
View Quote



dun DUN DUhhhnnn.!...

blue tooth keyboard intercept
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:54:59 PM EST
[#43]
Hint: those idiots didn't use the disappearing message feature.
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:55:00 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By IAm4:
So in other words, they had an informant.
View Quote


How in the fuck could an organization like that NOT attract informants?

It's seems like it would be easy to insert some agents into a large group of dopes like that.

Link Posted: 1/13/2022 9:55:22 PM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Erevis:
Informant.  You get that many people in a secure communication, you can bet it isn't secure.

https://i.imgur.com/AHtW4xy.png
View Quote


Link Posted: 1/13/2022 10:01:33 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:



This. If signal is as secure is they say it is, someone would have to give them access to a device.

View Quote


What about Pegasus?  Could one of the phones been compromised in a way that they had access to the Signal message content?
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 10:07:14 PM EST
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Erevis:
Informant.  You get that many people in a secure communication, you can bet it isn't secure.

https://i.imgur.com/AHtW4xy.png
View Quote
Yep, it can happen.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/03/fbi-names-arrests-anon-who-infiltrated-its-secret-conference-call/
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 10:08:52 PM EST
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NunyaBidness:
Yep. They didn't crack shit. They had someone in the group.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/13/2022 10:09:25 PM EST
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kallnojoy:
Koincadink?

2 days ago...

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-59937614#:~:text=Moxie%20Marlinspike%2C%20the%20co%2Dfounder,w­hich%20has%20concerned%20some%20users

Moxie Marlinspike, the co-founder and chief executive of encrypted-messaging app Signal, has resigned.
He blogged it was a "good time to replace myself as CEO" after working on Signal for over a decade.
View Quote



honeypotted, compromised, back doors installed?
Link Posted: 1/13/2022 10:10:35 PM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By steelycr:

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By steelycr:
Originally Posted By NunyaBidness:
Yep. They didn't crack shit. They had someone in the group.



easiest explanation is the most probable
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