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Posted: 10/21/2021 7:16:28 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 10/21/2021 7:18:17 AM EDT
[#2]
Get both
Yes they approved these ineffective shots too quickly without proper testing. Yes they withheld the approvals to fuck Trump. No I dont want an experimental shot, no matter who was President, that clearly is marginally effective for a short period of time when the disease it treats is 99% survivable for those who contract it. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 7:33:49 AM EDT
[#3]
I said I wasn't going to rush to get the shot when Trump was president. Nothing has changed.
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Posted: 10/21/2021 8:03:41 AM EDT
[#4]
Fda didbt approve them. They were rushed to use via emergency use authorization.
No long term testing. No regular protocol. Bad and dangerous products were rushed. Now they want everyone jabbed so there is no control group (people who didn’t get shots) to compare results with. Trump should stop bragging about fast tracking these dangerous shots. He is partly responsible for these disastrous results. His not firing Fauci was probably his biggest mistake. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 8:26:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Why do people assume this is political?
Most people just don't want to take an experimental "vaccine". It doesn't motivate anyone to take part of this experiment when not a single organization is willing to take liability if something goes wrong. Also, it doesn't motivate anyone to take part in this experiment when so much of the science is covered in lies and bullshit. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 9:16:22 AM EDT
[#6]
None of the vaccines are approved I don’t think. They have been authorized for use but not approved.
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Posted: 10/21/2021 10:03:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None of the vaccines are approved I don’t think. They have been authorized for use but not approved. The FDA approved Comirnaty on Aug 23rd. It is the Pfizer mRNA vaccine that was authorized and used under the EUA. The FDA has stated that the EUA and approved vaccines are interchangeable but legally distinct. People are arguing that it is not available here and that Pfizer will not sell it here. Others are saying that Pfizer is making it but that there are millions of doses of the EUA vaccine and they will use them first. I imagine that most companies are reluctant to throw out millions if not billions of dollars when there is no reason to do so. Moderna has submitted their vaccine for approval and the FDA is expected to approve it within weeks. J&J has not submitted their vaccine yet but is expected to do so. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 10:10:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do people assume this is political? Most people just don't want to take an experimental "vaccine". It doesn't motivate anyone to take part of this experiment when not a single organization is willing to take liability if something goes wrong. Also, it doesn't motivate anyone to take part in this experiment when so much of the science is covered in lies and bullshit. Nobody assumed it was political until Trump accused people who were trying to follow protocols for safety of being politically motivated. Nobody was rushing to make the vaccines until there was a large enough dollar amount attached to it. WARPSPEED brought the dollars, and pressure from Trump brought emergency approval of the vaccines. This set the stage for Xiden’s mandates. Before Xiden was claiming the vaccine saved lives, Trump was claiming it. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 10:33:38 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FDA approved Comirnaty on Aug 23rd. It is the Pfizer mRNA vaccine that was authorized and used under the EUA. The FDA has stated that the EUA and approved vaccines are interchangeable but legally distinct. People are arguing that it is not available here and that Pfizer will not sell it here. Others are saying that Pfizer is making it but that there are millions of doses of the EUA vaccine and they will use them first. I imagine that most companies are reluctant to throw out millions if not billions of dollars when there is no reason to do so. Moderna has submitted their vaccine for approval and the FDA is expected to approve it within weeks. J&J has not submitted their vaccine yet but is expected to do so. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: None of the vaccines are approved I don’t think. They have been authorized for use but not approved. The FDA approved Comirnaty on Aug 23rd. It is the Pfizer mRNA vaccine that was authorized and used under the EUA. The FDA has stated that the EUA and approved vaccines are interchangeable but legally distinct. People are arguing that it is not available here and that Pfizer will not sell it here. Others are saying that Pfizer is making it but that there are millions of doses of the EUA vaccine and they will use them first. I imagine that most companies are reluctant to throw out millions if not billions of dollars when there is no reason to do so. Moderna has submitted their vaccine for approval and the FDA is expected to approve it within weeks. J&J has not submitted their vaccine yet but is expected to do so. Meanwhile, since the FDA approved Pfizer's license for Comirnaty, the FDA was supposed to pull Moderna's and J&J's EUA's and stop distribution of their product and stop the use of the EUA version of Pfizer-BioNTech's product, not continue it's distribution and use. At least according to the Federal statutes, the FDA's own guidelines and that is precisely what the FDA has done in the past. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 10:39:34 AM EDT
[#10]
 Attached FileIt appears they're already stocking up on the pediatric doses, and it hasn't been approved yet. Why would they buy so much before the approval process is even finished?  Same reason that the "infinite re-try" female Rangers were pushed through? Noooo. "President is coming on Friday" in no way meant there was a screwjob to make sure the political optics made the lefty machine happy. All this of course, for a vaccine for a virus that's wayyyy less dangerous for very young people in the first place  |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:12:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nobody assumed it was political until Trump accused people who were trying to follow protocols for safety of being politically motivated. Nobody was rushing to make the vaccines until there was a large enough dollar amount attached to it. WARPSPEED brought the dollars, and pressure from Trump brought emergency approval of the vaccines. This set the stage for Xiden’s mandates. Before Xiden was claiming the vaccine saved lives, Trump was claiming it. Interesting point, Comrade bolster! |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:20:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meanwhile, since the FDA approved Pfizer's license for Comirnaty, the FDA was supposed to pull Moderna's and J&J's EUA's and stop distribution of their product and stop the use of the EUA version of Pfizer-BioNTech's product, not continue it's distribution and use. At least according to the Federal statutes, the FDA's own guidelines and that is precisely what the FDA has done in the past. It would be silly to pull the other vaccines. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:30:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Back before any of the vaccines were approved, just over a year ago, there was one person accusing the “Deep State” of dragging its feet to slow the approval process. In the past year, how many have claimed the FDA ignored its own protocols and rubber stamped the vaccines? If they went too fast, they were careless and in Big Pharma’s pocket. Went too slowly? Deep State. Only one genius could have created such a predicament. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/513216-trump-rails-against-fda-over-vaccine-testing “The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics. Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!” Trump tweeted. The vaccines were rolled out too quickly for full fda approval. I didn’t intend on taking them for a few years when Trump was President. Now that the potato says I have to or else, I am going with “or else”. I have no objection to their being offered for emergency use. I object to any employer requiring an experimental medical treatment for continuing employment. I’m fact I object to it enough I’m willing to stomp them flat with the policing power of the state to make the point. Long prison terms will make most people with something to lose reassess their actions. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:32:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be silly to pull the other vaccines. Do laws matter or not? This is probably the reason Cominarty is not available in the US. To maintain the fiction legally speaking. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:36:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The vaccines were rolled out too quickly for full fda approval. I didn’t intend on taking them for a few years when Trump was President. Now that the potato says I have to or else, I am going with “or else”. I have no objection to their being offered for emergency use. I object to any employer requiring an experimental medical treatment for continuing employment. I’m fact I object to it enough I’m willing to stomp them flat with the policing power of the state to make the point. Long prison terms will make most people with something to lose reassess their actions. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Back before any of the vaccines were approved, just over a year ago, there was one person accusing the “Deep State” of dragging its feet to slow the approval process. In the past year, how many have claimed the FDA ignored its own protocols and rubber stamped the vaccines? If they went too fast, they were careless and in Big Pharma’s pocket. Went too slowly? Deep State. Only one genius could have created such a predicament. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/513216-trump-rails-against-fda-over-vaccine-testing “The deep state, or whoever, over at the FDA is making it very difficult for drug companies to get people in order to test the vaccines and therapeutics. Obviously, they are hoping to delay the answer until after November 3rd. Must focus on speed, and saving lives!” Trump tweeted. The vaccines were rolled out too quickly for full fda approval. I didn’t intend on taking them for a few years when Trump was President. Now that the potato says I have to or else, I am going with “or else”. I have no objection to their being offered for emergency use. I object to any employer requiring an experimental medical treatment for continuing employment. I’m fact I object to it enough I’m willing to stomp them flat with the policing power of the state to make the point. Long prison terms will make most people with something to lose reassess their actions. I agree. Mandates are unlawful and bringing more animosity into a country with too much of it before this all started. I expect the lawsuits already happening to end in a large financial loss to the government and even less public confidence in our institutions. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:40:07 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree. Mandates are unlawful and bringing more animosity into a country with too much of it before this all started. I expect the lawsuits already happening to end in a large financial loss to the government and even less public confidence in our institutions. Large financial loss to the .gov and large corps is actually the better outcome too. The worse outcome is the typical “fix is in / Hawaii judge” situation. People whose lives have been irreparably harmed by ideologues who are brazen authoritarians, and who see that they cannot get justice through the courts, may choose to get justice in a different manner. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:41:08 AM EDT
[#17]
I'm no Trump lover. I appreciate some of the things he says, but a lot of the things he did and the people he appointed were plain wrong.
Rapid EUA for the most at risk people (elderly) with being honest about the risk and benefit for various populations would have been the reasonable course of action. Instead, we have rushed general approval despite evidence that the vaccines are at least as dangerous to young healthy people as the virus. We have mandates where people are being forced to choose between their careers, homes, etc. and taking a dangerous product with the supposed intent of protecting geriatrics and fat bodies whose vaccines are ineffective. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:53:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do laws matter or not? This is probably the reason Cominarty is not available in the US. To maintain the fiction legally speaking. You haven't convinced me a law has been broken. By the way, Cominarty is also covered by the immunity to liability provision under PREP. Did you know that? |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:58:09 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree. Mandates are unlawful and bringing more animosity into a country with too much of it before this all started. I expect the lawsuits already happening to end in a large financial loss to the government and even less public confidence in our institutions. An OSHA mandate seems likely to be unconstitutional to me. I can't see how it's a Federal responsibility. Quarantine powers (which includes vaccine mandates) are a State power. I think your State legislature could impose a constitutionally legit mandate but I don't believe the Feds can. An employer policy freely adopted by the employer (not imposed by OSHA) is probably not illegal, since employers are broadly free to hire and fire whoever they want at will. It gets questionable if there's a collective bargaining agreement in place, but otherwise it seems likely to be covered by employment at will laws. However the OSHA thing seems like a huge over reach. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 11:59:55 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryI’m glad OP has been industriously pointing out to everyone his lack of underscore. As if we couldn’t notice. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 12:18:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meanwhile, since the FDA approved Pfizer's license for Comirnaty, the FDA was supposed to pull Moderna's and J&J's EUA's and stop distribution of their product and stop the use of the EUA version of Pfizer-BioNTech's product, not continue it's distribution and use. At least according to the Federal statutes, the FDA's own guidelines and that is precisely what the FDA has done in the past. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: None of the vaccines are approved I don’t think. They have been authorized for use but not approved. The FDA approved Comirnaty on Aug 23rd. It is the Pfizer mRNA vaccine that was authorized and used under the EUA. The FDA has stated that the EUA and approved vaccines are interchangeable but legally distinct. People are arguing that it is not available here and that Pfizer will not sell it here. Others are saying that Pfizer is making it but that there are millions of doses of the EUA vaccine and they will use them first. I imagine that most companies are reluctant to throw out millions if not billions of dollars when there is no reason to do so. Moderna has submitted their vaccine for approval and the FDA is expected to approve it within weeks. J&J has not submitted their vaccine yet but is expected to do so. Meanwhile, since the FDA approved Pfizer's license for Comirnaty, the FDA was supposed to pull Moderna's and J&J's EUA's and stop distribution of their product and stop the use of the EUA version of Pfizer-BioNTech's product, not continue it's distribution and use. At least according to the Federal statutes, the FDA's own guidelines and that is precisely what the FDA has done in the past. That is not what the law says. The EUA stays in effect until the government says the emergency is over. Comirnaty is FDA approved but they do not have a stockpile of it ready to ship. There are people here who argue that Comirnaty is not available in the US. I think that they are rightfully using the Pfizer vaccine manufactured and paid for before using the new vaccine. The FDA has stated that they are interchangeable. We should be happy that the government is not wasting our money by destroying the paid for Pfizer vaccine. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 12:25:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You haven't convinced me a law has been broken. By the way, Cominarty is also covered by the immunity to liability provision under PREP. Did you know that? No. Also don’t care. Is it or is it not required by law to pull EUA vaccines from the market once a vaccine receives full FDA approval? The answer to that question is also the answer to whether laws have been broken. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 12:33:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is not what the law says. The EUA stays in effect until the government says the emergency is over. Comirnaty is FDA approved but they do not have a stockpile of it ready to ship. There are people here who argue that Comirnaty is not available in the US. I think that they are rightfully using the Pfizer vaccine manufactured and paid for before using the new vaccine. The FDA has stated that they are interchangeable. We should be happy that the government is not wasting our money by destroying the paid for Pfizer vaccine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: None of the vaccines are approved I don’t think. They have been authorized for use but not approved. The FDA approved Comirnaty on Aug 23rd. It is the Pfizer mRNA vaccine that was authorized and used under the EUA. The FDA has stated that the EUA and approved vaccines are interchangeable but legally distinct. People are arguing that it is not available here and that Pfizer will not sell it here. Others are saying that Pfizer is making it but that there are millions of doses of the EUA vaccine and they will use them first. I imagine that most companies are reluctant to throw out millions if not billions of dollars when there is no reason to do so. Moderna has submitted their vaccine for approval and the FDA is expected to approve it within weeks. J&J has not submitted their vaccine yet but is expected to do so. Meanwhile, since the FDA approved Pfizer's license for Comirnaty, the FDA was supposed to pull Moderna's and J&J's EUA's and stop distribution of their product and stop the use of the EUA version of Pfizer-BioNTech's product, not continue it's distribution and use. At least according to the Federal statutes, the FDA's own guidelines and that is precisely what the FDA has done in the past. That is not what the law says. The EUA stays in effect until the government says the emergency is over. Comirnaty is FDA approved but they do not have a stockpile of it ready to ship. There are people here who argue that Comirnaty is not available in the US. I think that they are rightfully using the Pfizer vaccine manufactured and paid for before using the new vaccine. The FDA has stated that they are interchangeable. We should be happy that the government is not wasting our money by destroying the paid for Pfizer vaccine. Then why not just relabel them? Or put out something saying they can be legally the same? |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 1:02:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Also don’t care. Is it or is it not required by law to pull EUA vaccines from the market once a vaccine receives full FDA approval? The answer to that question is also the answer to whether laws have been broken. I'm going to bet on no. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 1:40:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then why not just relabel them? Or put out something saying they can be legally the same? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: None of the vaccines are approved I don’t think. They have been authorized for use but not approved. The FDA approved Comirnaty on Aug 23rd. It is the Pfizer mRNA vaccine that was authorized and used under the EUA. The FDA has stated that the EUA and approved vaccines are interchangeable but legally distinct. People are arguing that it is not available here and that Pfizer will not sell it here. Others are saying that Pfizer is making it but that there are millions of doses of the EUA vaccine and they will use them first. I imagine that most companies are reluctant to throw out millions if not billions of dollars when there is no reason to do so. Moderna has submitted their vaccine for approval and the FDA is expected to approve it within weeks. J&J has not submitted their vaccine yet but is expected to do so. Meanwhile, since the FDA approved Pfizer's license for Comirnaty, the FDA was supposed to pull Moderna's and J&J's EUA's and stop distribution of their product and stop the use of the EUA version of Pfizer-BioNTech's product, not continue it's distribution and use. At least according to the Federal statutes, the FDA's own guidelines and that is precisely what the FDA has done in the past. That is not what the law says. The EUA stays in effect until the government says the emergency is over. Comirnaty is FDA approved but they do not have a stockpile of it ready to ship. There are people here who argue that Comirnaty is not available in the US. I think that they are rightfully using the Pfizer vaccine manufactured and paid for before using the new vaccine. The FDA has stated that they are interchangeable. We should be happy that the government is not wasting our money by destroying the paid for Pfizer vaccine. Then why not just relabel them? Or put out something saying they can be legally the same? I don’t know why they can’t relabel them. Maybe it is not worth the cost and effort to do so. There must be millions of doses of the vaccine produced before the FDA approval all over the country. It is also stored in ultra cold freezers, they cannot thaw it out to change the label and referee it. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 1:46:54 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then why not just relabel them? Or put out something saying they can be legally the same? The FDA put in the approval for Cominarty that the existing EUA Pfizer vials could indeed be used as if it were Cominarty. I think the OP wants Moderna and J&J pulled while their approvals are pending. I don't think there's really a legal requirement to pull all other EUA drugs for a disease just because a different drug is now approved. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 1:48:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You haven't convinced me a law has been broken. By the way, Cominarty is also covered by the immunity to liability provision under PREP. Did you know that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do laws matter or not? This is probably the reason Cominarty is not available in the US. To maintain the fiction legally speaking. You haven't convinced me a law has been broken. By the way, Cominarty is also covered by the immunity to liability provision under PREP. Did you know that? Once approved, it doesn't fall under PREP anymore, it falls under the regular fed statutes. They're still shielded from liability, though. It's just the victims can now seek compensation with the vaccine court, assuming there ever is Comirnaty available. |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 2:22:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. Also don’t care. Is it or is it not required by law to pull EUA vaccines from the market once a vaccine receives full FDA approval? The answer to that question is also the answer to whether laws have been broken. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You haven't convinced me a law has been broken. By the way, Cominarty is also covered by the immunity to liability provision under PREP. Did you know that? No. Also don’t care. Is it or is it not required by law to pull EUA vaccines from the market once a vaccine receives full FDA approval? The answer to that question is also the answer to whether laws have been broken. My prediction is they will not take the other vaccines off the market, and for the same reason they approved mixing boosters - to reduce the ability to track the horrible side effects back to a particular manufacturer. Did they do studies on the effects of combining the different vaccines? Of course not. And everyone knows nothing bad ever happens when using different drugs together
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Posted: 10/21/2021 2:52:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Couldn't you make a pleas with your employer that you have been trying to get vaccinated by the FDA approved "Comirnaty "? But it is not available anywhere.
Sure they will just tell you "Oh it's the same thing!". But those are not FDA approved. Comirnaty is. How can they force you to take an off label, non fda approved, drug? If it doesn't matter, then why the fuck do we even have da approved drugs? |
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Posted: 10/21/2021 7:00:40 PM EDT
[#30]
they are testing now on human beings...research should be solid in a couple more years of trials...
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Posted: 10/22/2021 2:43:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would be silly to pull the other vaccines. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meanwhile, since the FDA approved Pfizer's license for Comirnaty, the FDA was supposed to pull Moderna's and J&J's EUA's and stop distribution of their product and stop the use of the EUA version of Pfizer-BioNTech's product, not continue it's distribution and use. At least according to the Federal statutes, the FDA's own guidelines and that is precisely what the FDA has done in the past. It would be silly to pull the other vaccines. So they shouldn't have issued a license to Pfizer then. Then again, it's also against Federal law to have a vaccine mandate with only an EUA vaccine. Mandates were the sole reason FDA issued the license. |
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Posted: 10/22/2021 3:04:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is not what the law says. The EUA stays in effect until the government says the emergency is over. Comirnaty is FDA approved but they do not have a stockpile of it ready to ship. There are people here who argue that Comirnaty is not available in the US. I think that they are rightfully using the Pfizer vaccine manufactured and paid for before using the new vaccine. The FDA has stated that they are interchangeable. We should be happy that the government is not wasting our money by destroying the paid for Pfizer vaccine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: None of the vaccines are approved I don’t think. They have been authorized for use but not approved. The FDA approved Comirnaty on Aug 23rd. It is the Pfizer mRNA vaccine that was authorized and used under the EUA. The FDA has stated that the EUA and approved vaccines are interchangeable but legally distinct. People are arguing that it is not available here and that Pfizer will not sell it here. Others are saying that Pfizer is making it but that there are millions of doses of the EUA vaccine and they will use them first. I imagine that most companies are reluctant to throw out millions if not billions of dollars when there is no reason to do so. Moderna has submitted their vaccine for approval and the FDA is expected to approve it within weeks. J&J has not submitted their vaccine yet but is expected to do so. Meanwhile, since the FDA approved Pfizer's license for Comirnaty, the FDA was supposed to pull Moderna's and J&J's EUA's and stop distribution of their product and stop the use of the EUA version of Pfizer-BioNTech's product, not continue it's distribution and use. At least according to the Federal statutes, the FDA's own guidelines and that is precisely what the FDA has done in the past. That is not what the law says. The EUA stays in effect until the government says the emergency is over. Comirnaty is FDA approved but they do not have a stockpile of it ready to ship. There are people here who argue that Comirnaty is not available in the US. I think that they are rightfully using the Pfizer vaccine manufactured and paid for before using the new vaccine. The FDA has stated that they are interchangeable. We should be happy that the government is not wasting our money by destroying the paid for Pfizer vaccine. The FDA should immediately license J&J, Moderna and NoVaVax then if they actually care about trying to save as many lives as possible by using vaccination to end the pandemic. ETA: and if the FDA is still short on doses, maybe they shouldn't pledge to donate hundreds of millions of doses to others countries. |
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