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Posted: 1/5/2021 3:15:18 PM EDT
1/24
Received the smaller pin gauges. Tried it with the smallest, a .244 - still wouldn't close. Realized something was wrong, and looked in the chamber really closely with a flashlight. The front of the chamber looked a little dark, so I got a big nylon bore brush (soft as to not wear at the actual chamber surface), put it in a cordless drill, and brushed the heck out of the chamber. Seems there was some dirt or grease at the front of the chamber that was preventing the Go gauge from seating properly. After cleaning things better, it closes on a .252 pin and a Go gauge, but not on a .252 pin and a No Go gauge. Seems like .252 is the locking shoulder size I need. for those more knowledgeable with FAL shoulder sizes, is .252 something to be concerned about? From what I'm seeing this is not in the standard range and is an outlier Looking around .252 isn't in stock anywhere and I think I'll have to custom order one from DSA. Bummer, $50 bucks and likely a bit of a wait. Still no FCG yet. Fuck you USPS. 1/20 Click To View Spoiler Had a little time to play around with this last night, started trying to determine what size locking shoulder I'll need. Was confused at first as it wasn't coming anywhere near closing with a pin in place. After digging around, you need to remove the extractor from the bolt. Not all of the guides I read mentioned this, and those that did didn't explain in detail. The reason seems to be that the moderate pressure used on the bolt when determining headspace isn't enough to overcome the extractor spring and the rear of the headspace gauge will stop on the extractor, not the bolt face. Removing the extractor from a FAL bolt is a pain in the ass, and most people use a specialized tool... that I didn't buy. I came up with a pretty good improvised tool that worked well. I took an old punch and clamped it in a vice grip so only a nub of the point extended past the jaws. This let me get a good grip on the recess of the plunger and pull it down enough to make the extractor come free. Attached File I had tried to go cheap with my pin gauges and only ordered a handful in the middle of the locking shoulder range. I had from .254 to .266 around. Wouldn't close on .254 with a GO gauge, so more pins on the way. I'm going to assume that needing one of the smallest sizes means my barrel has relatively little wear (which fits with the nice look of the rifling), so I don't mind dropping $25 bucks on more pins. 1/17 Had time to work on this today. Filed the shoulder slowly, following each round of filing with a round of sanding. 10 passes with the file at a time at first, repeating around the curve of the barrel. When I got close, input in the bore sight and started putting on the lower+stock to see how the sights lined up vs the dot. Attached File Not an elegant setup, but it worked. Overall I think using the bore laser was pretty easy and precise. Not that I have anything to compare to as this is my first FAL build. Attached File Did some reassembly, starting to look like a rifle now. Gas system went back together with ease, which is another sign I got the barrel timing right. Attached File If time allows, tomorrow will be playing with pin gauges and headspacing. Also debating refinishing the surplus parts vs wearing the receiver to (somewhat) match vs just saying fuckit as it has its own rugged charm in its mismatched state. You'll notice there's no FCG in the pic. The reason is I am waiting on a US made one for 922r. FALs have 17 922r relevant parts. The reg says max 10 foreign. For now it will be US receiver, hammer, sear trigger, mag body, mag follower, mag floorplate. This gives me 7 US, 10 foreign; and on the sunny side of the rule. Waiting on FCG right now, thus no FCG in the lower housing. Plan is to replace current furniture with a nice US made wood set from Ironwood Designs, but that will need to wait a few pays. That way the mag doesn't matter. I know some scoff at 922r and will point out that no one has been busted for a stand alone 922r violation. I'm cautious, and would rather not be the first.) 1/16 update below Click To View Spoiler things acceptably cleaned up and 922r compliance parts figured out (hate that law but I'm going to be risk adverse and cover my ass) tried torqueing the barrel, and it came up short. at 100 on the torque wrench, my guess is I am about 15 degrees short. Will need to shave the barrel shoulder. my attempts at improvised rods to visualize barrel timing did not work well. If I had been able to get it closer to correctly timed, I don't think I would have been accurate enough. I don't want to buy rods, so I came up with an alternate idea. The real test of if a barrel is correctly oriented is if the gun can be zeroed. So I'm thinking rather than spend $40+ on rods, I use the cheap ass 308 bore laser I already have. When I think I have it close, slip the lower housing (which has the rear sight) on, slide the laser into the chamber, and see if my sights come close to lining up with the dot. Is there any downside or flaw to this I'm missing? seems like it would be more accurate and avoid buying another tool 1/11 update below Click To View Spoiler Moving forward on building the FAL a little bit at a time. Next up was getting the receiver stub off the barrel. Did the dremel through and split with a chisel method. What you do is cut at the front the charging handle slot with a dremel, this is where the receiver stub is thinnest and narrowest. The guides I read all said to go slow and stop when either you see the threads or the metal at the bottom changes color. I went really slow and was terrified of going too deep. To my surprise, the color change was pretty distinct, the bottom of the cut turned much darker. Smacked it with the big hammer and chisel to try and crack it the rest of the way. The guides said you would hear and/or feel a pop when it goes. I felt nothing, it was only with close inspection that I could tell that it had cracked. Attached File was able to unscrew it easily with the barrel vice and receiver wrench. Moved on to trying to see how my new DSA receiver timed with the barrel by hand. Good news is it hand times to ~30 degrees shy of the gas block, so with proper torqueing I should be able to get it where it needs to be. (in the picture below, the gas block is at about 3 o'clock and receiver is at about 2 o'clock.) Attached File Bad news is it is pretty tight all the way through, almost too much resistance to hand tighten at all. I suspect I will need to do a good bit more cleanup on the threads. Next up is finishing cleaning and degreasing all the parts which will be reused. Might be able to do the actual final assembly next monday. Will post as I do more. 1/5 Original post below: Click To View Spoiler I'm getting ready to build my first FAL, and working on getting the parts to be reused off the receiver stub. The gas tube nut won't budge. This thing: Click To View Spoiler I have the little multitool for FALs, the little toothed wrench just pops right off. I tried repeated spraying and waiting with PB Blaster in case there was some rust binding it up (half a dozen time over several days). Didn't help at all, just seems to be torqued on there absurdly tight. Tried wrapping vice grips in duct tape to pad them and twist it off that way. other end of the gas tube is disassembled, the tube is actually free floating and is only held in place by the lack of clearance to slide it out. Its a cheap part, I can get a new one for $10 plus shipping. Very tempted to just get out the Dremel and grind a flat on each side so I can get a wrench on it properly. I do need to get it off as it traps the gas tube and also prevents me from getting the barrel in the barrel vice to get it off the stub. Any suggestions before I get destructive? edit: got it! Tried the heat gun even though it seemed feeble compared to a proper torch. Heated it until the grease started to smoke, and gave a good twist with the vice grips. Also threatened it a bit. Attached File |
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Pic doesn't work. Edit: now it does.
How gross is it? I had to heat mine up and use brass jawed pliers to get it loose. As for the barrel vise, just use a Dremel to split the stub in two places and pull it off. You don't want to try to wrench a receiver stub off of a FAL barrel. |
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Did you try doing the PB blaster in between the adjustment inside and the tube?
spray and let it slide right into it .... but I've found shooting it rapidly helped make mines easier ... it was caked in carbon...and I just used a polishing wheel to clean it out. |
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Quoted: Did you try doing the PB blaster in between the adjustment inside and the tube? spray and let it slide right into it .... but I've found shooting it rapidly helped make mines easier ... it was caked in carbon...and I just used a polishing wheel to clean it out. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Did you try doing the PB blaster in between the adjustment inside and the tube? spray and let it slide right into it .... but I've found shooting it rapidly helped make mines easier ... it was caked in carbon...and I just used a polishing wheel to clean it out. Strayed the heck out of it from all approaches. Quoted: Pic doesn't work. Edit: now it does. How gross is it? I had to heat mine up and use brass jawed pliers to get it loose. medium wear and crud. Trying to scrape what I can with a dental pick. |
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Use a torch/heat yet?
Otherwise you could probably just stick the barrel flats in a vise and use a receiver wrench to torque the stub off. |
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Quoted: Use a torch/heat yet? Otherwise you could probably just stick the barrel flats in a vise and use a receiver wrench to torque the stub off. View Quote Haven't tried heat yet, currently without a functioning torch. I do have a decent heat gun, but I was thinking that wouldn't add enough heat to make a meaningful difference. |
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Quoted: I'd have that bitch apart in 30 seconds. Heat + spanner wrench https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-o6m7bi0/images/stencil/660x660/products/1392/1879/WS-474__42269.1456424320.jpg?c=2 View Quote The problem is the damn little notches are not square, they are scalloped. |
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Quoted: You're cutting the stub anyway, cut the receiver away from the tube threads. Follow where the curve meets the radius on both sides. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The problem is the damn little notches are not square, they are scalloped. You're cutting the stub anyway, cut the receiver away from the tube threads. Follow where the curve meets the radius on both sides. That's a good thought. And if I fuck it up, it is only a $10 part |
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Quoted: That's a good thought. And if I fuck it up, it is only a $10 part View Quote Even if you bump the threads a little, they'll clean right up with a file. Same as when you split the receiver from the barrel. So long as you don't cut into the sleeve where it goes over the gas tube, you should be fine. |
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Instead of turning it OUT, try turning it IN.
Even just a smidgen might help break the threads. THEN try to turn it out. |
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You sure you can't get the gas tube off without it? I seem to recall you can punch out the pin from the gas block, unthread the tube, and get it off that way?
It's been forever though since I broke down a FAL that far... |
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Quoted: You sure you can't get the gas tube off without it? I seem to recall you can punch out the pin from the gas block, unthread the tube, and get it off that way? It's been forever though since I broke down a FAL that far... View Quote Did that, the tube is unthreaded and unhooked at the gas block end. The sleeve of the nut prevents enough side to side movement to pull the tube out. Still would need to get the nut off to either reuse it or just to get clearance for the barrel vice for removing the barrel from the stub. |
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Try a good bottle opener.
Or like you said, just get another one. |
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Quoted: Did that, the tube is unthreaded and unhooked at the gas block end. The sleeve of the nut prevents enough side to side movement to pull the tube out. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: You sure you can't get the gas tube off without it? I seem to recall you can punch out the pin from the gas block, unthread the tube, and get it off that way? It's been forever though since I broke down a FAL that far... Did that, the tube is unthreaded and unhooked at the gas block end. The sleeve of the nut prevents enough side to side movement to pull the tube out. Gotcha, ok, thanks for refreshing my memory. Dumb question - does it have a carry handle? Or no carry handle/cut? Maybe wiggle the carry handle around if it has one? I vaguely recall having a similar issue and using a flathead screwdriver as a punch, and a hammer, to force the issue... |
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Heat from torch and apply paraffin candle wax , and/or a 50/50 mix of acetone and trans fluid
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I'ver found using a punch and hammer works well to remove them.
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Flat screw driver and a hammer is how I would tackle that
If you want to get fancy put electical tape on the screw driver head |
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Quoted: Quoted: Haven't tried heat yet, currently without a functioning torch. I do have a decent heat gun, but I was thinking that wouldn't add enough heat to make a meaningful difference. It will make all the difference. And it did! I hadn't tried it since it seemed so feeble compared to a proper torch. Heated it until the grease started to smoke, and gave a good twist with the vice grips. Also threatened it a bit. Attached File |
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Good deal. Now, do you have a proper barrel vise and receiver wrench?
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Quoted: Good deal. Now, do you have a proper barrel vise and receiver wrench? View Quote yup, have everything I need except time to really get down to it. Next up is getting the barrel off the stub then really cleaning everything. lots of grease and dirt in random nooks and crannies still. vice and wrench from faltools pin gauge set Go / No Go set |
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Pro tip: put the hand guard retaining ring on your barrel now so you don’t forget to install it when you time your barrel.
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Quoted: yup, have everything I need except time to really get down to it. vice and wrench from faltools pin gauge set Go / No Go set View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Good deal. Now, do you have a proper barrel vise and receiver wrench? yup, have everything I need except time to really get down to it. vice and wrench from faltools pin gauge set Go / No Go set Will you be using alignment rods for the barrel timing? |
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I humbly request that the OP makes this a build thread.
I just ordered a kit so I am looking for pointers lol |
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Quoted: Will you be using alignment rods for the barrel timing? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes right now I'm thinking I'll see what I can do on my own before buying some. Quoted: I humbly request that the OP makes this a build thread. I just ordered a kit so I am looking for pointers lol I might, though this is probably going to stretch over a month or two as I'll be doing things a little at a time. Maybe an after action thread would work better. @redfox1911 where'd you order the kit from? now that I have the tools, I might want to build a couple of these. |
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Quoted: right now I'm thinking I'll see what I can do on my own before buying some. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Will you be using alignment rods for the barrel timing? right now I'm thinking I'll see what I can do on my own before buying some. It should be pretty easy to mock something up if needed. ARS uses a rod that threads into the front sight base, and you then use a horizontal level on the receiver and a vertical level on the alignment rod. https://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/product/fal-l1a1-timing-rod/ A piece of rigid tubing with an ID that fits snugly over the front sight post should serve the same purpose, though not as precise. |
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Quoted: yup, have everything I need except time to really get down to it. Next up is getting the barrel off the stub then really cleaning everything. lots of grease and dirt in random nooks and crannies still. vice and wrench from faltools pin gauge set Go / No Go set View Quote Good deal. If you hit any snags PM me if you'd like. I've built "a few." |
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Quoted: right now I'm thinking I'll see what I can do on my own before buying some. I might, though this is probably going to stretch over a month or two as I'll be doing things a little at a time. Maybe an after action thread would work better. @redfox1911 where'd you order the kit from? now that I have the tools, I might want to build a couple of these. View Quote There is a guy on gunbroker selling some imbel kits for $580. (parts kit depot or just search "FAL kit") The one I snagged to appeared to have a non bipod cut handguard. I am still trying to decide on a receiver. Either type 2 cast DSA or type 2 forged R1 DSA |
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Got a weight and a string? Make a plumb bob?
Make sure the receiver is level, hang the plumb bob, and use that as your guide for measuring whether the front sight is TDC or not? |
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Quoted: Got a weight and a string? Make a plumb bob? Make sure the receiver is level, hang the plumb bob, and use that as your guide for measuring whether the front sight is TDC or not? View Quote That's not a bad thought, though I think I like the bore laser idea more as if there isn't any flaw to it, I put the tools away knowing for sure I can zero it. That might be a good plan B |
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Quoted: 1/16 tried torqueing the barrel, and it came up short. at 100 on the torque wrench, my guess is I am about 15 degrees short. Will need to shave the barrel shoulder. View Quote Make sure it isn't the breach face hitting the receiver. Quoted:my attempts at improvised rods to visualize barrel timing did not work well. If I had been able to get it closer to correctly timed, I don't think I would have been accurate enough. I don't want to buy rods, so I came up with an alternate idea. The real test of if a barrel is correctly oriented is if the gun can be zeroed. So I'm thinking rather than spend $40+ on rods, I use the cheap ass 308 bore laser I already have. When I think I have it close, slip the lower housing (which has the rear sight) on, slide the laser into the chamber, and see if my sights come close to lining up with the dot. Is there any downside or flaw to this I'm missing? seems like it would be more accurate and avoid buying another tool View Quote Should work fine. I use a crappy level on the receiver rails and then the sight ears. You don't have to get it perfect. It's more important that the gas piston drops freely through. |
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Quoted: That's not a bad thought, though I think I like the bore laser idea more as if there isn't any flaw to it, I put the tools away knowing for sure I can zero it. That might be a good plan B View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Got a weight and a string? Make a plumb bob? Make sure the receiver is level, hang the plumb bob, and use that as your guide for measuring whether the front sight is TDC or not? That's not a bad thought, though I think I like the bore laser idea more as if there isn't any flaw to it, I put the tools away knowing for sure I can zero it. That might be a good plan B Well, don't forget...bullets travel in an arc, light does not. What's the typical zero distance of a FAL, 50+ meters or something like that? With a plumb bob, you can tell if it's leveled up immediately. With a laser bore sighter, you're constantly moving back and forth to check zero, etc. I'm assuming you've checked FalFiles for ideas, too, as well as the other older hits on google, circa 2003 or so...when the FAL heyday was going strong? Like this one, etc... |
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Quoted: Make sure it isn't the breach face hitting the receiver. Should work fine. I use a crappy level on the receiver rails and then the sight ears. You don't have to get it perfect. It's more important that the gas piston drops freely through. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Make sure it isn't the breach face hitting the receiver. Should work fine. I use a crappy level on the receiver rails and then the sight ears. You don't have to get it perfect. It's more important that the gas piston drops freely through. pretty sure the contact is on the shoulder. Checked with a feeler gauge (yay roller delay bolt gap check tools) and couldn't find a gap. Also read several places that its pretty normal to have to do some trimming / filing with new DSA receivers and surplus barrels. Good reminder on the gas piston, not many guides talk about that much. I'll be sure to test that too. Monday will probably be my next day to spend time on this. Quoted: Well, don't forget...bullets travel in an arc, light does not. What's the typical zero distance of a FAL, 50+ meters or something like that? With a plumb bob, you can tell if it's leveled up immediately. With a laser bore sighter, you're constantly moving back and forth to check zero, etc. I'm assuming you've checked FalFiles for ideas, too, as well as the other older hits on google, circa 2003 or so...when the FAL heyday was going strong? Like this one, etc... I'd just be looking at left/right with the laser, not actually trying to zero. That's for later. |
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You don't need special rods - a cleaning rod shoved through the gas block and another cleaning rod held on top of the receiver are all you need.
The rods should line up on the same plane when you have the barrel installed properly. |
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I built a few FAL's back in the day when FALfiles was still hot. Only had trouble with the Imbel Type 3 receiver on a Rhodie kit. Didn't time right, had to use a sanding disk to get the shoulders low enough. Worked great.
However, looking at your block and wrench, I think you weren't timed right. Arizonaresponsesystems.com has some good pictures that shows where you want that barrel shoulder at. Squinting from your picture, it looks to me like you were quite a bit off. |
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Quoted: I built a few FAL's back in the day when FALfiles was still hot. Only had trouble with the Imbel Type 3 receiver on a Rhodie kit. Didn't time right, had to use a sanding disk to get the shoulders low enough. Worked great. However, looking at your block and wrench, I think you weren't timed right. Arizonaresponsesystems.com has some good pictures that shows where you want that barrel shoulder at. Squinting from your picture, it looks to me like you were quite a bit off. View Quote Yup, it was stopping quite a bit early. Sandpaper only and I'd have been at it for days. Got it though, and torqued to 110. |
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What is your plan for hammer, trigger, and sear? DSA has been out of stock for the past few months. Those are the only parts I need to complete my kit.
Also patiently waiting for Faltools to get their tools back in stock so I can DIY instead of ending off to ARS. |
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