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Posted: 2/14/2022 2:54:26 PM EDT
Q: why did they come out of burner for a couple of seconds?
 Grim Reaper F-15C quick climb departures, RAF Lakenheath, England [4K] |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 3:38:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Those most stunning part of that video is that they actually fully pronounce “See ya!”
I always thought it was suppose to sound like a loud hiccup. 
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Posted: 2/14/2022 3:51:06 PM EDT
[#2]
I didn't see them come out of burner anywhere except the last takeoff at the end, but they didn't go back in. They came out of burner in that case because they reached their target altitude and airspeed.
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Posted: 2/14/2022 3:56:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Yeah they didn't come out of burner at all
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Posted: 2/14/2022 4:01:59 PM EDT
[#4]
On the first one it does appear to come out of burner while still low. However it might be the right external tank kinda blocking the burner flame.
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Posted: 2/14/2022 4:04:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Ok I’ll be serious for a bit, I always love unrestricted climbs.
On that first takeoff as the jet flew down the runway I think the angle of the aircraft just obscured the view of the AB flames. Is that what you were referring to? |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 4:19:34 PM EDT
[#6]
The first jet definitely came out of AB on both engines while he was blocked by that red and white building
He may have had an engine anomaly and took them out of AB and then back into AB to try it again. Like a thump or a bang or something Not uncommon or he was about to over speed the gear because it wasn't fully up yet. |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 7:15:12 PM EDT
[#7]
Winter 1974, F15s came to Grand Forks AFB for testing. We were told frigid air density was an important factor. Numerous vertical climb runs were conducted. Very interesting to watch records being established.
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Posted: 2/14/2022 7:18:41 PM EDT
[#8]
No, that's not video of their unrestricted climbs. When F15's are serious about getting to altitude they go straight up on afterburners, not 60 or 70 degrees to the ground but 90 degrees, and they need to have a tanker waiting for them as they burn off most of their fuel. September of 1990 I stayed overnight on Elmendorf air force base when I was visiting my brother, and was woken in the morning by the KC-135 taking off. 20-30 minutes later 2 F15's woke up everyone taking off and going vertical to climb up to the tanker.
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Posted: 2/14/2022 7:25:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Q: why did they come out of burner for a couple of seconds?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kItN6eABoENot an unrestricted climb. A quick climb but not what they think. They come out of burner because they are sucking gas and could be getting close to limit for closure or overall speed the ATC dictated to them. When Vipers do it, the first off the ground is out of burner much sooner than the others because they want to join up without wasting fuel or exceeding mach etc. |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 7:28:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The first jet definitely came out of AB on both engines while he was blocked by that red and white building He may have had an engine anomaly and took them out of AB and then back into AB to try it again. Like a thump or a bang or something Not uncommon I missed that he pulled back for a second. Maybe too fast? |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 8:17:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, that's not video of their unrestricted climbs. When F15's are serious about getting to altitude they go straight up on afterburners, not 60 or 70 degrees to the ground but 90 degrees, and they need to have a tanker waiting for them as they burn off most of their fuel. September of 1990 I stayed overnight on Elmendorf air force base when I was visiting my brother, and was woken in the morning by the KC-135 taking off. 20-30 minutes later 2 F15's woke up everyone taking off and going vertical to climb up to the tanker. Unrestricted climb is really an ATC clearance kind of departure. Normally when you takeoff you then contact Departure and follow a flight planned route which typically involves more normal climb restrictions. Mainly due to other airways traffic. The airspace has to be clear/cleared for high performance type climb outs. This flight was only cleared to FL 19 I think I heard. |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 10:59:03 PM EDT
[#12]
I once saw an F-18 make an unrestricted climb. He went straight up over the end of the runway and at about 5,000' (my estimate), rolled over and resumed level flight 90 degrees from runway heading.
It was pretty cool. |
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Posted: 2/15/2022 9:21:53 AM EDT
[#13]
Might have been a power modulation so as not to overspeed the landing gear. Most guys just climb more aggressively, but when you're trying to look good for the quick climb, pulling back the power works better. Not sure if that's the case for these guys, but the 300kt gear speed comes fast in a Viper, especially right now with super cold winter days.
Since looking/sounding good is like 95% of the job, I'm going with that!  
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Posted: 2/15/2022 10:13:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, that's not video of their unrestricted climbs. When F15's are serious about getting to altitude they go straight up on afterburners, not 60 or 70 degrees to the ground but 90 degrees, and they need to have a tanker waiting for them as they burn off most of their fuel. September of 1990 I stayed overnight on Elmendorf air force base when I was visiting my brother, and was woken in the morning by the KC-135 taking off. 20-30 minutes later 2 F15's woke up everyone taking off and going vertical to climb up to the tanker. That is about as unrestricted as you can do with 2 external wing tanks. 60-70 degrees is certainly unrestricted meaning you have a climbe clearance into the upper 20,000 or 30,000 feet with a climb rate in excess of 30,000 feet per minute. 90 degrees is done just for fun. 60-70 degrees is done to get to altitude fast. Taking off and being level at 35,000 by the end of the runway ( been there done that ) does not require a tanker standing by and does not burn most of the gas or even a significant amount by any stretch, you are only in AB for about 60 -90 seconds. |
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Posted: 2/15/2022 10:16:32 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I missed that he pulled back for a second. Maybe too fast? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The first jet definitely came out of AB on both engines while he was blocked by that red and white building He may have had an engine anomaly and took them out of AB and then back into AB to try it again. Like a thump or a bang or something Not uncommon I missed that he pulled back for a second. Maybe too fast? yeah, either had a motor pop or he was close to over speeding the gear because it wasn't fully up yet with the doors closed. Unlike an F16, if a motor goes pop in AB in an eagle, you take it out and put it back in. But looking back on that it looked like he needed a second to get the gear doors closed so he didn't over speed them |
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Posted: 2/15/2022 10:19:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Might have been a power modulation so as not to overspeed the landing gear. Most guys just climb more aggressively, but when you're trying to look good for the quick climb, pulling back the power works better. Not sure if that's the case for these guys, but the 300kt gear speed comes fast in a Viper, especially right now with super cold winter days. Since looking/sounding good is like 95% of the job, I'm going with that! eagle is 250 kts with centerline tank, 300 without ( can't remember if that applies to no center and wing tanks, it's been a while and not a common configuration when I was flying due to the increased departure characteristics ) ) , but most use 250 no matter what because it is ingrained in the brain. I doubt he was close to 300 especially with 2 tanks, but he easily could have been close to 250 and a gear door may not have been fully closed yet since he had just broken ground A training configuration C model will be off the ground in 700 feet full blower on a chilly day and be supersonic by the end of an 8000 foot runway if still in blower and little climb |
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Posted: 2/15/2022 12:35:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Might have been a power modulation so as not to overspeed the landing gear. The C Model gear speed is 300, so not likely. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 9:19:47 PM EDT
[#18]
T38 "unrestricted (by ATC)" departure
 USAF T-38 Unrestricted Climb at MSP |
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Posted: 2/20/2022 11:28:13 AM EDT
[#19]
What Mach said. 90 degree climb looks cool, but if you want to get high quick with any sort of load out, 60-70 degrees will do it. And assuming both wing tanks were full, along with full internal fuel, the C will burn roughly 10% max fuel capacity per minute in MaxAB. If memory serves correct, they will drink about 1,850lbs per minute in AB. If you look at the Streak Eagle record runs, nothing in the profile involved a straight 90 degree climb. It was a roughly 2G immelman, then accelerate in a gradual climb, then a 60 degree climb to altitude. All that, the Eagle is one, bad bird, undefeated in air to air.
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Posted: 2/22/2022 10:29:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What Mach said. 90 degree climb looks cool, but if you want to get high quick with any sort of load out, 60-70 degrees will do it. And assuming both wing tanks were full, along with full internal fuel, the C will burn roughly 10% max fuel capacity per minute in MaxAB. If memory serves correct, they will drink about 1,850lbs per minute in AB. If you look at the Streak Eagle record runs, nothing in the profile involved a straight 90 degree climb. It was a roughly 2G immelman, then accelerate in a gradual climb, then a 60 degree climb to altitude. All that, the Eagle is one, bad bird, undefeated in air to air. I was surprised by the StreakEagle doing an Immelman, rather than just straight 60deg climbout.. wonder why? Did they have to stay within a specific area? |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 10:42:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryNot kidding, I have seen them do that at MSP before. We use the Signature flight FOB for our corporate shuttle, and we were there one afternoon waiting to board our plane. To guys in flight suits were in there talking to the Flight desk (maybe paying for gas) before walking out to the plane that was parked with the rest of the business jets and props. They got in, closed the cannopy, and taxied out. Not long after they did a takeoff roll on 30L and seemed to be off the ground in like 1/3 of the runway about the time they were passing in front of Signature and climbed out like a rocket. We've seen a lot of C130's parked next door there, and they had a Super Bug there one time too. Not sure if those are perhaps overnight diverts or maybe training flights? The C130 makes sense for the MN ANG that is based there, but not sure why it wasn't over by their hangers. Also was there for the last flight of the 747 into MSP when a Delta plane did several patterns around the field as a salute. Very cool! |
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Posted: 2/22/2022 11:01:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The first jet definitely came out of AB on both engines while he was blocked by that red and white building He may have had an engine anomaly and took them out of AB and then back into AB to try it again. Like a thump or a bang or something Not uncommon or he was about to over speed the gear because it wasn't fully up yet.  |
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Posted: 2/23/2022 5:19:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He may have had an engine anomaly and took them out of AB and then back into AB to try it again. Like a thump or a bang or something Not uncommon C'mon, man...these are Strike Eagles. We don't have no stinking -100 compressor-stall-o-matic motors! They're -229s with improved DEECs! |
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Posted: 2/23/2022 5:26:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was surprised by the StreakEagle doing an Immelman, rather than just straight 60deg climbout.. wonder why? Did they have to stay within a specific area? When I was in my initial F-15E basic course, there was a great McD-produced movie about the Mach cruise/climb schedule that the engineers had produced specifically for the Streak Eagle. I wish I could remember what the specifics were about that initial Immelmann on takeoff, but it had to do with the rate at which it got the airplane to its initial altitude, where it leveled off to accelerate. Something about acceleration characteristics under G vs in a standard climb in the thicker air at lower altitude. I remember being astounded that it was possible for an aircraft to accelerate better under G than unloaded. That's why they're engineers and I'm just a pilot. |
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Posted: 2/24/2022 12:32:56 AM EDT
[#25]
From reading the profile, as well as watching the videos, the initial take off to immelma was rotate, suck the gear up, accelerate to 428 kts, then pull into a 2.5g immelman and accelerate while climbing to M 1.2 and level off at 32,000 ft, accelerate to M2.2 and climb at about 60 degrees nose high. It was pretty bitchin to watch the videos. Plane weighed about 32,000lbs at take off. They would attach the tail hook to the runway with an explosive bolt, run into max ab, then blast the bolt and off it went.
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Posted: 2/24/2022 9:28:51 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: C'mon, man...these are Strike Eagles. We don't have no stinking -100 compressor-stall-o-matic motors! They're -229s with improved DEECs! This! The -229 is a beast and compressor stalls are an extremely rare event. Much better than even the -220 and certainly much better than the -200 (modified -100). |
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Posted: 2/24/2022 10:52:06 AM EDT
[#27]
I remember my $ ride in T-38 at Laughlin in December 1972. It was 28F with a strong NW wind take off RW 31L.
Unrestricted climb to 50,000’. Hold down to 500KIAS then pull. I remember going through 40,000’ and looking back over my left shoulder and seeing the runway still just off the tailpipe. The white rocket was fun!!!! 
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Posted: 2/24/2022 12:05:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember my $ ride in T-38 at Laughlin in December 1972. It was 28F with a strong NW wind take off RW 31L. Unrestricted climb to 50,000’. Hold down to 500KIAS then pull. I remember going through 40,000’ and looking back over my left shoulder and seeing the runway still just off the tailpipe. The white rocket was fun!!!! Unfortunately, the C-model mod added weight and the PMP mod added drag. The White Rocket you remember is, unfortunately, mostly a figment of all of our memories...outside of the handful of ACC units that still fly A models as companion traniers and aggressors. Still one of the most fun airplanes I've ever flown. |
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Posted: 2/24/2022 12:39:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Something about acceleration characteristics under G vs in a standard climb in the thicker air at lower altitude. I remember being astounded that it was possible for an aircraft to accelerate better under G than unloaded. That's why they're engineers and I'm just a pilot. This is specific to the C, I am not familiar with later models: the wing is designed to produce minimum drag in the 2-3g range. Ie. Drag at 2g is less than drag at 1g. This was done to offset the l/d performance towards better maneuverability. It wasn’t designed to cruise, for max range, etc. it was designed to maneuver at the expense of cruise performance. |
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Posted: 2/24/2022 6:28:15 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is about as unrestricted as you can do with 2 external wing tanks. 60-70 degrees is certainly unrestricted meaning you have a climbe clearance into the upper 20,000 or 30,000 feet with a climb rate in excess of 30,000 feet per minute. 90 degrees is done just for fun. 60-70 degrees is done to get to altitude fast. Taking off and being level at 35,000 by the end of the runway ( been there done that ) does not require a tanker standing by and does not burn most of the gas or even a significant amount by any stretch, you are only in AB for about 60 -90 seconds. @Mach |
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Posted: 2/24/2022 7:09:40 PM EDT
[#31]
Thread hijack
Elmendorf was a great place to hang out. We were always on base fucking around since I moved up in 76. The F4s were damn impressive but the best was on Wednesday when the hot Major F15 pilot did aerobatics in the afternoon. We would try to get tee times just to watch him. Great watching them come in to land right over the 15th green a hundred feet up. Also fun watching them scramble a pair of F15s on a Bear intercept. Worked at Eilson for a couple summers and sonic booms are a near daily treat up there. I also hunt in fighter jet playground, although low level flyby are rare now. |
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Posted: 2/24/2022 7:21:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryI miss watching T-38s flying out of Williams AFB. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 10:39:09 AM EDT
[#33]
In early 1975 I was a Lieutenant “Guard Bum” flying the sleek and racy KC-97L “Stratotanker/sophisticated war machine” for the Texas Air National Guard / Air Militia out of Dallas Naval Air Station.
Our unit volunteered to fly tanker support for the Lightweight Fighter test program at Edwards AFB so I got to do a lot of flying there for a few months. While there I got to see a lot of other test programs that were going on at the same time. One of those was the new F-15 preparing for the time to climb record. It was an interesting profile that didn’t just go straight up. The following link describes it: https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/world-record-for-time-to-climb-to-a-height-of-30000-meters/ |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 12:48:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Know anything about the guy at Galena who popped the wings off when he pulled up at the end of the runway? Mid or late 80s, C type iirc. @Mach Yes, he did not have a properly functioning OWS (Overload Warning System). |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 1:08:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: … F-15 preparing for the time to climb record. It was an interesting profile that didn’t just go straight up. The following link describes it: https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/world-record-for-time-to-climb-to-a-height-of-30000-meters/ That’s interesting. Knowing nothing about an f15: the Immelmann is to take advantage of the fact that the 2-3g drag is less than the 1g drag. At low altitude the dense air makes reducing drag worth the time lost accelerating before/after the Immelmann. The almost level acceleration to 2.2m is probably done near the altitude where the thrust/drag ratio is best to give the shortest acceleration time. The 60deg climb instead of vertical is probably done for controllability (easier and safer to transition to a dive) and because the drag at such altitudes is so low that most airspeed is lost to potential energy rather than drag. |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 4:09:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Know anything about the guy at Galena who popped the wings off when he pulled up at the end of the runway? Mid or late 80s, C type iirc. @Mach Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is about as unrestricted as you can do with 2 external wing tanks. 60-70 degrees is certainly unrestricted meaning you have a climbe clearance into the upper 20,000 or 30,000 feet with a climb rate in excess of 30,000 feet per minute. 90 degrees is done just for fun. 60-70 degrees is done to get to altitude fast. Taking off and being level at 35,000 by the end of the runway ( been there done that ) does not require a tanker standing by and does not burn most of the gas or even a significant amount by any stretch, you are only in AB for about 60 -90 seconds. @Mach Yes I do. What would you like to know? @wwace |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 4:34:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, he did not have a properly functioning OWS (Overload Warning System). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Know anything about the guy at Galena who popped the wings off when he pulled up at the end of the runway? Mid or late 80s, C type iirc. @Mach Yes, he did not have a properly functioning OWS (Overload Warning System). IIRC he was a young LT that was used to taking off leaving Galena turn out and come back down the runway low and fast with an aggressive high G pull at the end of the runway. He was used to doing this as was everybody with a single centerline tank. This time he did it with full wing tanks and folded the wings. The full wingtanks significantly reduce G allowed to remain within structural limits. I think that happened in '85 or '86. At the time I think Elmandorf was flying F-15A models without OWS. But I could be wrong, I am going by memory and that was a long time ago. The pilots name is on the tip of my tongue |
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Posted: 2/25/2022 6:18:38 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIRC he was a young LT that was used to taking off leaving Galena turn out and come back down the runway low and fast with an aggressive high G pull at the end of the runway. He was used to doing this as was everybody with a single centerline tank. This time he did it with full wing tanks and folded the wings. The full wingtanks significantly reduce G allowed to remain within structural limits. I think that happened in '85 or '86. At the time I think Elmandorf was flying F-15A models without OWS. But I could be wrong, I am going by memory and that was a long time ago. The pilots name is on the tip of my tongue That sounds like something that likely didn't turn out well then for the plane or the pilot. 
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Posted: 2/26/2022 12:15:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That sounds like something that likely didn't turn out well then for the plane or the pilot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: IIRC he was a young LT that was used to taking off leaving Galena turn out and come back down the runway low and fast with an aggressive high G pull at the end of the runway. He was used to doing this as was everybody with a single centerline tank. This time he did it with full wing tanks and folded the wings. The full wingtanks significantly reduce G allowed to remain within structural limits. I think that happened in '85 or '86. At the time I think Elmandorf was flying F-15A models without OWS. But I could be wrong, I am going by memory and that was a long time ago. The pilots name is on the tip of my tongue That sounds like something that likely didn't turn out well then for the plane or the pilot. Nope https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/60404 |
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Posted: 2/26/2022 12:57:39 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryGalena, what a shitty place to die. Did the As have the same structural issues later models have? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 1:35:32 PM EDT
[#41]
How about another nice TO video
 2 F-15 Eagle unrestricted climbs |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 6:13:27 PM EDT
[#42]
I'd die a happy man if I were able to experience that just once.
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Posted: 5/23/2022 3:25:19 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not kidding, I have seen them do that at MSP before. We use the Signature flight FOB for our corporate shuttle, and we were there one afternoon waiting to board our plane. To guys in flight suits were in there talking to the Flight desk (maybe paying for gas) before walking out to the plane that was parked with the rest of the business jets and props. They got in, closed the cannopy, and taxied out. Not long after they did a takeoff roll on 30L and seemed to be off the ground in like 1/3 of the runway about the time they were passing in front of Signature and climbed out like a rocket. We've seen a lot of C130's parked next door there, and they had a Super Bug there one time too. Not sure if those are perhaps overnight diverts or maybe training flights? The C130 makes sense for the MN ANG that is based there, but not sure why it wasn't over by their hangers. Also was there for the last flight of the 747 into MSP when a Delta plane did several patterns around the field as a salute. Very cool! Quote HistoryQuoted: Not kidding, I have seen them do that at MSP before. We use the Signature flight FOB for our corporate shuttle, and we were there one afternoon waiting to board our plane. To guys in flight suits were in there talking to the Flight desk (maybe paying for gas) before walking out to the plane that was parked with the rest of the business jets and props. They got in, closed the cannopy, and taxied out. Not long after they did a takeoff roll on 30L and seemed to be off the ground in like 1/3 of the runway about the time they were passing in front of Signature and climbed out like a rocket. We've seen a lot of C130's parked next door there, and they had a Super Bug there one time too. Not sure if those are perhaps overnight diverts or maybe training flights? The C130 makes sense for the MN ANG that is based there, but not sure why it wasn't over by their hangers. Also was there for the last flight of the 747 into MSP when a Delta plane did several patterns around the field as a salute. Very cool! |
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Posted: 5/23/2022 6:52:53 AM EDT
[#44]
The coolest vertical climb I ever saw was at a MacDill Airfest when an F-14D did a low pass and pulled straight into the vertical until it practically disappeared.
The new F-110-GE-400 engines they put in that variant gave it a thrust/weight ratio of 0.88 (clean configuration.) The sound was thunderous. |
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Posted: 5/23/2022 12:07:33 PM EDT
[#45]
I was an F-16A/B Doc Shop Weenie with the MT ANG.
I always got a super warm fuzzy when they would take-off for the FCF and roar/screech down to the end of the runway about 20' off the ground and go vertical. As it turned into a dot it would pull inverted, shake the jet, and when nothing fell into the canopy to be gathered-up, roll right side up and head out towards Havre to wring it out. It felt cool to know I connected the throttle and fuel pipe and elec connections and torqued the nuts that held the two drive pins that held the engine in.  I miss working on cool stuff.
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Posted: 5/23/2022 12:18:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's too bad we don't have anyone around here that would actually know about this kind of thing. That flight sim guy coulda given us the info. |
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Posted: 5/24/2022 1:18:20 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those most stunning part of that video is that they actually fully pronounce “See ya!” I always thought it was suppose to sound like a loud hiccup. Lol everybody does it these days, even on chat Usually it's CYUUUUUUUUUUUH! 
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Posted: 5/25/2022 8:41:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd die a happy man if I were able to experience that just once. 
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Posted: 5/25/2022 8:44:12 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I got to do it at PDX in a clean B model. Full burner, almost straight up, and me cackling like a maniac the entire way. Man, I do that in the two jets I fly and neither type has burner. |
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Posted: 6/19/2022 6:14:05 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Q: why did they come out of burner for a couple of seconds? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kItN6eABoEI love the F22 and i really wish we had about 400 more. but Jesus the F15 is a sexy ass bitch. Not upset Boeing in bringing in more.
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