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Posted: 11/18/2021 1:01:44 PM EDT
Last year there was an unfortunate incident where my old Massey was left out of gear and rolled about 30' down a slight incline and split in half at the transmission.  5 Months later it was finally repaired for over $10k and we just said the hell with it and traded it in for this new 2750e.  Needless to say it has been nothing but a nightmare.  First day I had it I bent both of the hydraulic cylinders pushing debris.  I accepted my fate and spent the $1000 to get them replaced (been 6 months) and within 3 hours I bent the new ones while using the stump bucket the sales manager told me to buy to get the most out of my tractor.  Have you guys ever seen anything like this?  I will be going in to the dealer tomorrow to discuss the options, but it bends simply by tilting the bucket down.  I was sick to my stomach when it happened.  I was able to "straighten" them back out, but as you will see in the video they bind and bend the moment you put any downward curl pressure on them.  I'm not crazy to think this is completely unacceptable right?  The video shows exactly how I had bent it not 5 minutes before.  



https://imgur.com/JYut2PL

That is a link to the video.  Watch the left hydraulic cylinder.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:04:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:05:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Attachment Attached File

....beat. That's insane.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:06:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Well, it does specify that feature...
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:07:16 PM EDT
[#4]
That bucket isn’t designed for that tractor.

And that tractor isn’t designed for popping stumps.


I’ll take “use proper tool for the job” - for 1000, Alex.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:07:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Tractors aren’t bulldozers homie.

Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:08:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Wow, those are some shit-tier cylinders.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:09:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That bucket isn’t designed for that tractor.

And that tractor isn’t designed for popping stumps.


I’ll take “use proper tool for the job” - for 1000, Alex.
View Quote


^^This right here^^

You got played for a sucka, sucka.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:10:07 PM EDT
[#8]
What's the diameter of the cylinder shaft?  They look awful small for a loader that size.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:11:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
What's the diameter of the cylinder shaft?  They look awful small for a loader that size.
View Quote



They’re fine.

The bucket is fucking huge. And is designed for a large skid loader. Which has a more vertical cylinder design.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:12:30 PM EDT
[#10]
yeah that's messed up.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:13:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:13:43 PM EDT
[#12]
You can’t run a Mack truck on a bicycle tire.

Those cylinders look far too small for what you are doing, but larger cylinders would probably bend the lift arms. They look pretty wimpy too…
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:14:28 PM EDT
[#13]
FEL's on even the Ag sized tractors aren't made for any serious work.  Snow, hay, and lifting pallets of seed and stuff like that.  If you need to dig, get a backhoe or excavator.  If you need to grade or move dirt, get a backhoe or a tracked skid steer.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:15:03 PM EDT
[#14]
Wrong tool as mentioned.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:15:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Needs more D60.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:17:22 PM EDT
[#16]
I have a 10 year old Kubota 40 hp tractor.  The Hydraulics on it are crazy strong.  In the past I unknowingly hooked a root on a scoop of dirt and almost flipped the tractor when I "raised" the bucket.  

Also I get too heavy a load of rock in there and the rear wheels get to light even with ballast in them.

The tractor will turn its self inside out before the hydraulics fail.


I think in your case poorly specified components collided with unrealistic expectations of ability.



Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:18:51 PM EDT
[#17]
Even our crappy old Yanmar can survive that…
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:19:54 PM EDT
[#18]
That long bucket creates too much pressure for the toy tractor.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:20:21 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I have a 10 year old Kubota 40 hp tractor.  The Hydraulics on it are crazy strong.  In the past I unknowingly hooked a root on a scoop of dirt and almost flipped the tractor when I "raised" the bucket.  

Also I get too heavy a load of rock in there and the rear wheels get to light even with ballast in them.

The tractor will turn its self inside out before the hydraulics fail.


I think in your case poorly specified components collided with unrealistic expectations of ability.



View Quote



If you put that bucket on your kubota, then bounced the tip on a stump, you too would bend cylinders.


It’s A leverage thing and cylinder angles.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:20:25 PM EDT
[#20]
@godspeed11

It’s assembled wrong.

Massey Reference Link

The geometry of the bucket doesn’t match the mounting hardware.
Either there is missing linkage or it’s a faulty design.

Proper bucket and mount design will make the connection at an engineered leverage point so the forces are not fighting against each other. Fulcrum is what most recognize as the connection point.

edit - Example of proper linkage vs. OP hybrid. MF been making equipment a long time.
Also as many have noted previously, reference the specs on your tractor.

Attachment Attached File
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:20:52 PM EDT
[#21]
I have a deere 5105 with a 522 loader which is much beefier than that but I would not use it in that way.  Loose dirt, stone, gravel and brush is fine for a loader.  Want to scrape or push packed dirt use a heavy duty back blade.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:21:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Sorry, OP. You got hosed. Take the hit and get a bigger tractor, Mahindra or Kubota next time.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:21:48 PM EDT
[#23]
OP is a tractor killer.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:21:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I have a 10 year old Kubota 40 hp tractor.  The Hydraulics on it are crazy strong.  In the past I unknowingly hooked a root on a scoop of dirt and almost flipped the tractor when I "raised" the bucket.  

Also I get too heavy a load of rock in there and the rear wheels get to light even with ballast in them.

The tractor will turn its self inside out before the hydraulics fail.


I think in your case poorly specified components collided with unrealistic expectations of ability.



View Quote



Kubota for the WIN!
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:22:31 PM EDT
[#25]
Picture says it all. 2ft of leverage vs 4ft.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:26:52 PM EDT
[#26]
I've watched countless videos of tractors half this size lifting wheels off the ground with the exact same stump bucket.  It's not specifically designed for tractors necessarily but it's not bending when I lift.  It's not bending when I push on it.  That 1.25" rod is kinking on downward curl and I suspect it's because they have so much length on the rod it simply can't take any stress once it get's passed 2/3 curl.  It'll lift anything I want and not bend.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:27:25 PM EDT
[#27]
The hydraulic relief should kick in before they bend like that.   If it's properly set within spec then they are cheap cylinders.

You guys saying the bucket is the problem are forgetting that the extra weight and distance from pivot should cause the hydraulics to bypass before damage occurs.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:29:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Ok I'll take back my shitty smart ass comment because since it's been pointed out it's definitely missing the lower braces.
sorry op
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:30:25 PM EDT
[#29]
That tractor isn’t made for that and Massey is shit so there’s that.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:32:23 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@godspeed11

It’s assembled wrong.

Massey Reference Link

The geometry of the bucket doesn’t match the mounting hardware.
Either there is missing linkage or it’s a faulty design.

Proper bucket and mount design will make the connection at an engineered leverage point so the forces are not fighting against each other. Fulcrum is what most recognize as the connection point.

edit - Example of proper linkage vs. OP hybrid. MF been making equipment a long time.
Also as many have noted previously, reference the specs on your tractor.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467962/E6D1CE2C-9695-4A08-A351-BFB68F33A13C_jpe-2171325.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467962/2F0B30CA-2F8C-49B3-B2E5-18C8C1C4733C_jpe-2171326.JPG
View Quote

What he said also. All loaders have some type of dog bone linkage there.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:33:12 PM EDT
[#31]
That's a lot of leverage.

Rent/Borrow a Bobcat for popping stumps / roots.

EDIT: looking at the pics you are for sure missing something in that front end - probably stabilizes it from racking as well.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:33:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



If you put that bucket on your kubota, then bounced the tip on a stump, you too would bend cylinders.


It’s A leverage thing and cylinder angles.
View Quote


This.

And in relation to your video, the cylinder shafts have already been compromised from the leverage which is the reason for them appearing to "flex" in the most extended position.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:33:54 PM EDT
[#33]
The LINKS are actually missing.

Look at the pics I posted. Mystery solved.

OP. Sorry you got one of those life lessons (I’ve had many) that you will never forget.

If folks would be more helpful and less snarkfull ARF would rule the webs.
Well that and allow boobies.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:34:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:34:32 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I've watched countless videos of tractors half this size lifting wheels off the ground with the exact same stump bucket.  It's not specifically designed for tractors necessarily but it's not bending when I lift.  It's not bending when I push on it.  That 1.25" rod is kinking on downward curl and I suspect it's because they have so much length on the rod it simply can't take any stress once it get's passed 2/3 curl.  It'll lift anything I want and not bend.
View Quote



Because stumps bounce when you pull on them.

They’re not a normal lift. Once they start giving, you create a bounce.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:35:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The hydraulic relief should kick in before they bend like that.   If it's properly set within spec then they are cheap cylinders.

You guys saying the bucket is the problem are forgetting that the extra weight and distance from pivot should cause the hydraulics to bypass before damage occurs.
View Quote



Because it’s not about the by pass.


It’s about the material handled. Stumps are not a straight vertical pull or constant tension.  

They give, then stop giving. Then give again. It creates a bounce that puts extra pressure on the cylinders because the tractor is moving as well as the stump.


It’s why stumps are fucking brutal on all equipment.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:41:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The LINKS are actually missing.

Look at the pics I posted. Mystery solved.

OP. Sorry you got one of those life lessons (I’ve had many) that you will never forget.

If folks would be more helpful and less snarkfull ARF would rule the webs.
Well that and allow boobies.
View Quote



THIS!!!!
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:41:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

What he said also. All loaders have some type of dog bone linkage there.
View Quote




I see what your saying on all other loaders, but this model doesn't seem to have anything there.  Guess there might simply be a huge design flaw.  When the bucket curled all the way down you have almost 24" of rod exposed which is just begging to bend it.  

I agree with what everyone is saying that the bucket is large and is adding two feet of leverage, but again, it's bending under the stress of me simply curling the bucket down, it "straightens" the rod when I try to curl up with weight on it.  
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:41:53 PM EDT
[#39]
They shouldn't bend very easy.  Something is wrong with the way the attachment hooks to the loader arms.  If you are not abusing the machine they shouldn't do that.  I have an LS tractor and beat the shit out of the front loader and have never bent the loader cylinders.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:42:07 PM EDT
[#40]
It looks like the proximal end of the cylinder should have some support. I've never seen absolutely no linkage or support like that when it's a pivoting head
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:42:26 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@godspeed11

It’s assembled wrong.

Massey Reference Link

The geometry of the bucket doesn’t match the mounting hardware.
Either there is missing linkage or it’s a faulty design.

Proper bucket and mount design will make the connection at an engineered leverage point so the forces are not fighting against each other. Fulcrum is what most recognize as the connection point.

edit - Example of proper linkage vs. OP hybrid. MF been making equipment a long time.
Also as many have noted previously, reference the specs on your tractor.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467962/E6D1CE2C-9695-4A08-A351-BFB68F33A13C_jpe-2171325.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/467962/2F0B30CA-2F8C-49B3-B2E5-18C8C1C4733C_jpe-2171326.JPG
View Quote

I’m always amazed at what people around here know and can pick up on so quickly. Great eye.

Now the real key is to find out who put it together wrong.

Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:43:35 PM EDT
[#42]
It's column buckling with the cylinders at full extension like that, and you are overloading it with that load case.  
I was testing one of our loaders (we used to OEM for several brands, previous employer), and had the loader arms up, with the bucket horizontal.  I used the curl function, and taco'd the lift cylinders just like that.  Didn't do that again...  


The loader is not missing any parts, those are two types of dump mechanisms.  One is compound with the extra link parts, one is direct acting with the cylinder directly coupled to the quick attach plate.



ETA:
Normal loading of the bucket has the cylinders in tension (lifting, up curling, etc) .  Back dragging, and rocking the bucket using it as a wedge digging out a stump like that puts the cylinder rod in compression, which is what failed it due to the change in geometry (stump bucket added a lot of additional leverage), and column buckling.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:45:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The hydraulic relief should kick in before they bend like that.   If it's properly set within spec then they are cheap cylinders.

You guys saying the bucket is the problem are forgetting that the extra weight and distance from pivot should cause the hydraulics to bypass before damage occurs.
View Quote
'

You may be correct about hydraulic relief valves existing for a similar purpose.

But it sounds that you are suggesting that if an operator rams the bucket into a solid object, continuously, that the cylinder will bleed off enough hydraulic fluid to absorb the impact and prevent damage to the machine.

That is wrong.

Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:46:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's column buckling with the cylinders at full extension like that, and you are overloading it with that load case.  
I was testing one of our loaders (we used to OEM for several brands, previous employer), and had the loader arms up, with the bucket horizontal.  I used the curl function, and taco'd the lift cylinders just like that.  Didn't do that again...  


The loader is not missing any parts, those are two types of dump mechanisms.  One is compound with the extra link parts, one is direct acting with the cylinder directly coupled to the quick attach plate.

View Quote



Okay, y’all have a great day!

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:48:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Generally most loaders should not be used with the bucket tilted at a 45 degree angle.  Too much leverage on an extended cylinder.  Folks would bend linkages on crawler loaders the same way.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:48:12 PM EDT
[#46]
Your tractor shouldnt be able to break itself that easily. I dont care what you have attached to the front.

Hyd should bypass or tires should slip before any damage.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:48:29 PM EDT
[#47]
I've never seen  John Deere do that.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:51:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


I can't find a single photo of a FLX2815 with that linkage. OP's loader appears to be assembled correctly.

As said before: this looks like a worst use case with tons of 'rod' exposed and not supported by the barrel, combined with a stump bucket that is too big for the tractor. He needs a compact tractor stump bucket that's about half the size. I'm also curious if they have a bad batch of rods that were not hardened correctly.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:53:50 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Your tractor shouldnt be able to break itself that easily. I dont care what you have attached to the front.

Hyd should bypass or tires should slip before any damage.
View Quote



SSQA’s now allow people to do a bunch of dumb shit with front end loaders they shouldn’t otherwise do.

Because everything comes on an SSQA. And there’s a huge fucking difference between a 30hp tractor and a 120hp skidloader. Yet you can use the same attachments on both of them.

Take a regular bucket from a 30hp tractor and guess how long it lasts with a CAT 299D3 XHP pushing it around.
Link Posted: 11/18/2021 1:55:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


https://media.sandhills.com/img.axd?id=6211561241&wid=4326205933&rwl=False&p=&ext=&w=639&h=480&t=&lp=TH&c=True&wt=False&sz=Max&rt=0&checksum=B105r9UGWtxPlec3gPCO4fbGSd4a3UXkkmvMMwucciI%3­d

I see what your saying on all other loaders, but this model doesn't seem to have anything there.  Guess there might simply be a huge design flaw.  When the bucket curled all the way down you have almost 24" of rod exposed which is just begging to bend it.  

I agree with what everyone is saying that the bucket is large and is adding two feet of leverage, but again, it's bending under the stress of me simply curling the bucket down, it "straightens" the rod when I try to curl up with weight on it.  
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

What he said also. All loaders have some type of dog bone linkage there.


https://media.sandhills.com/img.axd?id=6211561241&wid=4326205933&rwl=False&p=&ext=&w=639&h=480&t=&lp=TH&c=True&wt=False&sz=Max&rt=0&checksum=B105r9UGWtxPlec3gPCO4fbGSd4a3UXkkmvMMwucciI%3­d

I see what your saying on all other loaders, but this model doesn't seem to have anything there.  Guess there might simply be a huge design flaw.  When the bucket curled all the way down you have almost 24" of rod exposed which is just begging to bend it.  

I agree with what everyone is saying that the bucket is large and is adding two feet of leverage, but again, it's bending under the stress of me simply curling the bucket down, it "straightens" the rod when I try to curl up with weight on it.  


It looks like it was not assembled correctly…
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