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Posted: 1/15/2021 9:35:19 PM EDT
So I keep hearing that the outlet mounted with the ground lug on top is the correct way to mount the outlet. I've noticed on cords they design the plug so the ground lug should be on the bottom. My beer fridge is this way as well as my kitchen fridge. Who's right on their ground plug orientation?

The cord in the picture is putting angular force on the outlet while if the outlet was rotated 180 it would be putting linear force which I would think would cause less stress and not allow the plug to walk out.  This seems to cause the problem that is the reason the people say the ground lug should be on top. To prevent a loose plug from shorting by keeping something from contacting the hot lugs because the ground lug will stop it.
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:37:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Mine are ground prong down, because the weight of plug, the ground prong is last to exit penetrating the hole if the cord slips out. But all seriousness, I always mount ground on bottom.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:40:50 PM EDT
[#2]
My dad introduced me to three-prong outlets as "monkey face", and I am unable to accept them any way other than ground pin down.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:42:15 PM EDT
[#3]
It makes absolutely no difference which way its mounted.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:44:42 PM EDT
[#4]
In some areas, code dictates that the ground prong face upward if the outlet is greater than a specified height from the floor.  I assume this is to prevent the weight of a long cord from partially dislodging the plug from the outlet and exposing the spicier of the three contacts.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:46:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Mount the damned thing horizontally and watch heads explode in the argument aftermath.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:46:21 PM EDT
[#6]
There are some that say code requires the ground on top. Code says electrical items have to installed so if something falls on them it cant hit a live part, ground on top takes care of that. Then I have seen inspectors say they want the outlet installed so the righting on the outlet is the right side up. Yes most outlets are made that way.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-White-15-Amp-Duplex-Outlet-Residential-Outlet/1098367?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-elc-_-google-_-lia-_-205-_-wiringdevices-_-1098367-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&ds_a_cid=112741100&gclid=CjwKCAiAl4WABhAJEiwATUnEF3ChWCELIV__VVSZF6OxrZRiNl3cJ25b00u4rBD5ByWNlMRaJe3QyBoCkwgQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://www.beeslighting.com/2097TRW
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:46:42 PM EDT
[#7]
I was taught in school to install ground up. Reasoning if something conducive was to fall on to the plug it would have less chance of shorting hot to neutral. But in reality it’s pretty much personal preference I suppose.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:47:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Everywhere I have lived is down. Except the northeast. I have slowly been changing all of them in my house to down over the last few years.

And, most of the wall plugs that I have used are made for ground down.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:50:25 PM EDT
[#9]
The only reason to mount with ground up is to prevent something from falling and crossing the hot prong with the unhot prong!  Like a metal tool falling across the two prongs, seen it, not out of the realm of possibility.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:57:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The only reason to mount with ground up is to prevent something from falling and crossing the hot prong with the unhot prong!  Like a metal tool falling across the two prongs, seen it, not out of the realm of possibility.
View Quote

Then why are plugs designed in a way that causes the problem outlet orientation is trying to prevent?
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:01:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It makes absolutely no difference which way its mounted.
View Quote


I've literally installed thousands.  The above is correct.  

I've never had an inspector knock one down either way.  It all depends on what the specs say.  

If it makes you feel better or sleep better at night, by all means, install them ground up.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:01:46 PM EDT
[#12]
It's a shorter distance to the Ground if the Ground plug is down.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:02:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Mount the damned thing horizontally and watch heads explode in the argument aftermath.
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THIS!!!^^^^
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:03:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It makes absolutely no difference which way its mounted.
View Quote

Actually..........

Ever seen a dime balanced between the two prongs of a plug-in transformer, arcing out and tripping the OCCP? It made a difference to them.....
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:03:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Mount the damned thing horizontally and watch heads explode in the argument aftermath.
View Quote


Neutral lug up



But everything I install I put ground up.  Had a piece of steel stock leaning against the wall that slid, hit both prongs of a welder plug.  Scared the shit out of me, blew the fuse, and then I spent the rest of the day trying to find an open store that sold screw in fuses
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:03:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
In some areas, code dictates that the ground prong face upward if the outlet is greater than a specified height from the floor.  I assume this is to prevent the weight of a long cord from partially dislodging the plug from the outlet and exposing the spicier of the three contacts.
View Quote


The theory behind having it up is that if the cord becomes partially unplugged and something like a screw driver falls, it will hit the ground and one of the other prongs rather than both of the power prongs.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:04:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Also you might be a technical redneck of you fix your worn out loose outlet like this
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:05:39 PM EDT
[#18]
My inspector was an a$$. I have the only house in town with the ground up. I started turning over last year and my wife made me stop. She said that after 17 years she was used to them being wrong.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:05:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was taught in school to install ground up. Reasoning if something conducive was to fall on to the plug it would have less chance of shorting hot to neutral. But in reality it’s pretty much personal preference I suppose.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:10:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Turn the circuit breaker off and turn that outlet around. Its 3 screws - one in the cover and two holding the outlet to the box. No wiring necessary.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:11:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Ground up is for safety. All other pugs have ground up. Range, dryer and twist locks.
Here is my tape measure for proof why. I was measuring something on a garage wall. My tape measure snapped because I had it out to far and hit the plug that was partly sucking out of the gfi. True story.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:13:45 PM EDT
[#22]
As far as I know, commercial  kitchens  are the main place that ground up is required.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:16:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ground up is for safety. All other pugs have ground up. Range, dryer and twist locks.
Here is my tape measure for proof why. I was measuring something on a garage wall. My tape measure snapped because I had it out to far and hit the plug that was partly sucking out of the gfi. True story.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/296004/E69375DD-2BED-4485-A7F2-425FB0FA59E1_jpe-1781091.JPG
View Quote

But now you have instant 1 3/8 and 1 5/8 markings
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:18:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ground up is for safety. All other pugs have ground up. Range, dryer and twist locks.
Here is my tape measure for proof why. I was measuring something on a garage wall. My tape measure snapped because I had it out to far and hit the plug that was partly sucking out of the gfi. True story.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/296004/E69375DD-2BED-4485-A7F2-425FB0FA59E1_jpe-1781091.JPG
View Quote
Wow. I was going to ask if there was ever an actual example anyone knew about. I guess there's always a few.

Still not enough to make me go and flip all my outlets though.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:18:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

But now you have instant 1 3/8 and 1 5/8 markings
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ground up is for safety. All other pugs have ground up. Range, dryer and twist locks.
Here is my tape measure for proof why. I was measuring something on a garage wall. My tape measure snapped because I had it out to far and hit the plug that was partly sucking out of the gfi. True story.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/296004/E69375DD-2BED-4485-A7F2-425FB0FA59E1_jpe-1781091.JPG

But now you have instant 1 3/8 and 1 5/8 markings

It’s sharp and always cuts my finger when it’s rolling up if I’m not careful
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:19:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
As far as I know, commercial  kitchens  are the main place that ground up is required.
View Quote
What's in a kitchen that's more likely for ground down to be an issue?
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:19:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wow. I was going to ask if there was ever an actual example anyone knew about. I guess there's always a few.

Still not enough to make me go and flip all my outlets though.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ground up is for safety. All other pugs have ground up. Range, dryer and twist locks.
Here is my tape measure for proof why. I was measuring something on a garage wall. My tape measure snapped because I had it out to far and hit the plug that was partly sucking out of the gfi. True story.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/296004/E69375DD-2BED-4485-A7F2-425FB0FA59E1_jpe-1781091.JPG
Wow. I was going to ask if there was ever an actual example anyone knew about. I guess there's always a few.

Still not enough to make me go and flip all my outlets though.

Most outlets come with instructions on how to install them and they tell you to put them with the ground up. And they usually have printed on the metal yolk that says “top”.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:20:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
As far as I know, commercial  kitchens  are the main place that ground up is required.
View Quote

Hospitals require ground up too
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:20:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Only times I’ve seen ground up is plugs that were connected to a switch.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:21:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Mount the damned thing horizontally and watch heads explode in the argument aftermath.
View Quote


Neutral Up in that case.

No argument.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:22:17 PM EDT
[#31]
That wiring device is a receptacle, not an outlet. Also, the NEC does not provide direction or recommendation as to the orientation of a receptacle as OP asked...
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:25:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Ground down.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:25:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That wiring device is a receptacle, not an outlet. Also, the NEC does not provide direction or recommendation as to the orientation of a receptacle as OP asked...
View Quote
Is this like magazines/clips for electricians?
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:26:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That wiring device is a receptacle, not an outlet. Also, the NEC does not provide direction or recommendation as to the orientation of a receptacle as OP asked...
View Quote


Correct.

(FWIW, at UL we tested then with the ground pin down.)
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:29:39 PM EDT
[#35]
All the ones at work have the ground plug on top. I always thought it looked different.
I need to see the face.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:48:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I was taught in school to install ground up. Reasoning if something conducive was to fall on to the plug it would have less chance of shorting hot to neutral. But in reality it’s pretty much personal preference I suppose.
View Quote


Same here. That said I always install receptacles with the ground down.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:55:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ground up is for safety. All other pugs have ground up. Range, dryer and twist locks.
Here is my tape measure for proof why. I was measuring something on a garage wall. My tape measure snapped because I had it out to far and hit the plug that was partly sucking out of the gfi. True story.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/296004/E69375DD-2BED-4485-A7F2-425FB0FA59E1_jpe-1781091.JPG
View Quote

That would still have happened if you had the outlet upside down and had a non grounded device plugged in.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 10:58:14 PM EDT
[#38]
I have a bigger problem
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:02:48 PM EDT
[#39]
My brother is an electrician.  He said residential specs was ground down and commercial was ground up.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:03:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is this like magazines/clips for electricians?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
That wiring device is a receptacle, not an outlet. Also, the NEC does not provide direction or recommendation as to the orientation of a receptacle as OP asked...
Is this like magazines/clips for electricians?


Can be. There are a couple-three definitions for (or with) the word ‘outlet’ in 100. An ‘outlet’ is roughly defined as a point on the wiring system where electricity is connected to supply utilization equipment. Plenty of folks interpret that as being a receptacle.

I interpret that as being the box that a receptacle is installed in. Reason being is because there is a definition for a ‘lighting outlet’ too that is similar to the above definition. A light fixture is not co side red an outlet...
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:03:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Ground up is for safety. All other pugs have ground up. Range, dryer and twist locks.
Here is my tape measure for proof why. I was measuring something on a garage wall. My tape measure snapped because I had it out to far and hit the plug that was partly sucking out of the gfi. True story.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/296004/E69375DD-2BED-4485-A7F2-425FB0FA59E1_jpe-1781091.JPG
View Quote


something falling across hot and neutral on a partially exposed plug is literally the only theoretical reason I could think of for safety ground up installation.   But I was drawing a blank on a practical instance of that happening.   Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:04:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I have a bigger problem
View Quote


Not the blue screen of death, so there's that...
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:07:50 PM EDT
[#43]
I truly think some electricians do this ground up shit just to be annoying fucking pricks.
Then they make up this lame ass bullshit about something falling across the L-N prongs.

Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:09:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


The theory behind having it up is that if the cord becomes partially unplugged and something like a screw driver falls, it will hit the ground and one of the other prongs rather than both of the power prongs.
View Quote


You do realize that "one of the other prongs" is also ground.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:10:41 PM EDT
[#45]
No right or wrong answer common practice here is ground down in residential and ground up in commercial
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:13:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Another poster mentioned a fairly common reason used for installing ground up (in a residence anyways). It commonly signifies a half-hot...
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:14:36 PM EDT
[#47]
When I had my house built the electrician installed them all ground side down (which is also the way I like them).
But I had to go throughout the house and clock all of the faceplate screws so the slots were all aligned 12/6 (ocd and all that...).
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:15:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


You do realize that "one of the other prongs" is also ground.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


The theory behind having it up is that if the cord becomes partially unplugged and something like a screw driver falls, it will hit the ground and one of the other prongs rather than both of the power prongs.


You do realize that "one of the other prongs" is also ground.


And...here...I...go...

Article 250 Grounding & Bonding is quite complex. There are X (10) parts is this article. Not very many other articles have that many parts. 430_Motors may, not sure?

Grounding isn’t a simple as calling the green (or bare) conductor “ground”. That green wire has many different names, purposes & rules depending on where it is within the grounding/bonding system.

The green wire in the conduit that feeds loads (receptacles, lighting, ovens, HVAC...) is called the Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC). The EGC (wire type) is sized per 250.122. This size is based on the rating of the Overcurrent Protective Device (OCPD) that is protecting the ungrounded phase conductors. Other factors such as the ungrounded conductors being increased in size due to voltage drop affect the size of the EGC. If parallels are installed in multiple conduits, a full size EGC must be installed in each of them. Other allowable EGCs (other than wire) are a metallic conduit system, some flex types (size and/or amperage dependent) + others.
It’s purpose is multiple:
a) to help put all metal, non-current carrying parts at the same potential as the earth/grounding system
b) to be of sufficient size & low resistance to allow any ground-fault current to flow if a ground-fault was to occur

The thing that makes the physical connection to the earth is a grounding electrode. Most common types are ground rods, concrete encased (ufer) & building steel. Others are a ground ring, plate, other metallic structure (or something like that) + (1) more. There are (7) allowable electrodes in 250.52. Specific rules apply to all of these.

The (typically a) wire that makes the connection/bond between the electrode(s) and the ground bar in the service equipment is called an grounding electrode conductor (GEC). 250.66 provides rules for EGCs. They are generally sized per table 260.66 based on the circular mil area of (any one phase of) the service entrance conductors. If parallels are installed, than the overall sum of the cmil area is used to determine GEC size.
It’s purpose is to simply make this connection between the earth (electrode(s) and the grounding system. No ground-fault current should ever realistically flow through this wire.

The connection/bond between the ground bar & neutral bar is made via the Main Bonding Jumper (MBJ). In a typical residential main panel the ground & neutral simply share the same bar that the EGCs & neutrals terminate on. In larger services (commercial, industrial,...) this MBJ is typically a piece of busbar that is bolted between the ground & neutral bars.
It’s purpose is to provide a path for ground-fault current to be able to flow back to the source (transformer). This fault current would then be ‘seen’ by the OCPD which would then cause it to open or trip.
*the equivalent connection between the electrode and neutral at a seperately derived system (most common is a transformer) is called the System Bonding Jumper.

The green wire that is installed with the derived phase conductors (secondary conductors) between a transformer and the panel it supplies is called a Line-Side Bonding Jumper. Part V (5), 250-102 has the rules/regs for both these line-side & load-side bonding jumpers.

There is plenty more to discuss regarding grounding & bonding. Whole lot more specifics and details...



...now why the code is written is another story. NFPA authors a whole lot of code books for a bunch of stuff. NFPA 70 is the electrical code book. It’s language is ‘written’ via consensus of Code Making Panels (CMP). These CMPs are made up of primary and alternate folks from the industry. They are of such backgrounds such as manufacturing, labor, contracting, testing + others. Over the recent editions, there have been either (19) or (20) CMPs. Each CMP oversees (1) or more specific articles of the NEC. The code making process has multiple stages/phases that occur over the (3) years between book editions. Regular folk can comment and suggest during various phases of this code making process.
  There is an overall panel that oversees all of these CMPs. They are called *i forget  right now*.
  The NEC is a living document



Typing this on a phone takes a while
...
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:16:43 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Mount the damned thing horizontally and watch heads explode in the argument aftermath.
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Ooooh despard style I like it!
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 11:17:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Attachment Attached File


Yup, mount as you please.
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