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Posted: 1/17/2021 5:52:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Digging around in back of safe and was looking at a few older rifles to see which one to add an 1-6x or so optic to. Found it, original DDM4 (v1) with 16" M4 barrel, 12" FSB rail, 1:7" twist, 5.56 NATO chamber....can shoot all of my ammo up to 77g MK262 style. But I also found an older "carbine" that built a long time ago from a Rock River Arms AR4002 CAR A4 Complete Rifle Kit and replaced the original CAR handguard with a DD Omega 7" FF rail. But its FSB, carbine gas, etc. I forgot that its a 1:9" 16" barrel with a 5.56 chamber. I have a basic cross section of 5.56 ammo: M193, M855, MK262/77g. Everything else I have is 1:7"/5.56. Leave alone, just shoot M193 in it? Rebarrel to 1:7, 16"? Rebarrel and update rail, replace with a mid-length gas/low profile gas block? Other? Toss it in the trash because nobody has ever been able to shoot heavy bullets accurately from a 1 in 9 barrel. I'm lying. It's as useful now as the day it was made. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 5:53:45 PM EDT
[#2]
I'd have no problems using a good quality 1/9 barrel. I mostly have 55 and 62 grain ammo. I wouldn't turn down a 1/9 Colt HBAR at the right price.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 5:54:36 PM EDT
[#3]
i shoot M855 62gr out of my 1/9 rifles all the time with no problem. just as accurate as the M193 55gr. Ok...so i'm not shooting 69gr or 77 gr ...but who can find that now anyway.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 5:56:02 PM EDT
[#4]
For 99.7% of owners they are fine.
Answer: Yes they do. When I shot High Power Service Rifle my custom Kreiger barrel was a 1/7.75 which is virtually a ? and that was good for up to the 80grain bullets. The world doesn't fall off a cliff over a 1 inch difference. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 5:59:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Leave it as is.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 5:59:37 PM EDT
[#6]
not a fast enuf twist. i have one and at 100 yards the 55 grain Wolf bullets come in sideways.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:01:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Lol
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:02:45 PM EDT
[#8]
the yotes I shoot with mine dont seem to care about the twist rate. weird ;)
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:03:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not a fast enuf twist. i have one and at 100 yards the 55 grain Wolf bullets come in sideways. 
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:09:02 PM EDT
[#10]
We'd be shooting 1/9 twist barrels if it hadn't been for a need to stablize a LONG 5.56 Tracer in COLD arctic weather.
1/9 is better for 55 grain & most 62 grain (which is what 87% of all AR shooters us) than 1/7 which only comes into play with the 68 - 75 grain heavy weight bullets. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:11:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not a fast enuf twist. i have one and at 100 yards the 55 grain Wolf bullets come in sideways. That's a problem with your rifle bore or your ammo. A slow 1 in 12 twist is designed to stabilize 55 gr. That was the twist for the M16A1 using 55gr M193 ammo. 1 in 9 will definitely stabilize it. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:14:06 PM EDT
[#12]
 Thats all I got. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:16:04 PM EDT
[#13]
I only shoot Federal XM193. I actually prefer 1:9 twist barrels but most of mine are 1:7. 1:9 seems slightly more accurate.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:16:11 PM EDT
[#14]
I have a chrome lined Bushmaster superlight 1:9 barrel that's been accurate and reliable. I'd be perfectly happy taking it to war. I know 1:9 and carbine gas will get me killed.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:17:43 PM EDT
[#15]
What about those 1:8 twist barrels that PSA is selling lately? Are they any good?
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:20:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a problem with your rifle bore or your ammo. A slow 1 in 12 twist is designed to stabilize 55 gr. That was the twist for the M16A1 using 55gr M193 ammo. 1 in 9 will definitely stabilize it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: not a fast enuf twist. i have one and at 100 yards the 55 grain Wolf bullets come in sideways. That's a problem with your rifle bore or your ammo. A slow 1 in 12 twist is designed to stabilize 55 gr. That was the twist for the M16A1 using 55gr M193 ammo. 1 in 9 will definitely stabilize it. Not kidding on the shitty accuracy and going into the paper target sideways. Never did try decent ammo in it. Was a new barrel frum PSA. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:24:58 PM EDT
[#17]
my 1/9 hbar slings PMC bronze 55grn into 1&1/2 moa groups at 100 yards pretty consistently.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:25:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not a fast enuf twist. i have one and at 100 yards the 55 grain Wolf bullets come in sideways. Idonbelevit |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:27:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not a fast enuf twist. i have one and at 100 yards the 55 grain Wolf bullets come in sideways. Huh? 1:9 will stabilize 55grn just fine.... |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:33:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about those 1:8 twist barrels that PSA is selling lately? Are they any good? There’s nothing wrong with them. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:43:57 PM EDT
[#21]
My 90's, made in Windham Bushmaster 16" 1:9 is a tack driver with M193
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Posted: 1/17/2021 6:51:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Glad I never needed to use my old Bushy 1/9 16” CL Carbine. Didn’t realize I’ve been carrying around my funeral this home while.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 7:16:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I only shoot Federal XM193. I actually prefer 1:9 twist barrels but most of mine are 1:7. 1:9 seems slightly more accurate. My rifle has a 1:8 twist it prefers 69 gr. to 77gr. but shoots 55gr. fairly accurate and 62gr. better. The 77.gr. shoots under 1/2 moa. It is a 20" barrel though with a Wylde chambering. |
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Posted: 1/17/2021 7:17:01 PM EDT
[#24]
GD always entertaining, glad I asked. I'll keep an eye out for a replacement barrel, just in case, but probably leave it alone for now. I like AR projects, but I'll put the money into a optic or something for now and remember its 1:9 and only shoot 55 and 62g.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 7:41:14 PM EDT
[#25]
I have a 1/9 that will shoot lights out with 69 grain SMKs. It has a place in my safe.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 7:42:13 PM EDT
[#26]
Only if you want to shoot the two most common 5.56 ammo loads in America.
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Posted: 1/17/2021 8:06:46 PM EDT
[#27]
No no don't leave. I just bought a S&W MP Sport in August. I have only 100 rds out of it. 1:9 twist, it has shot m193 in 55 and 62 grn 2-3 moa at 100yds. I've read that some barrels in 1:9 will and will not shoot it well. Arcom is this true. Because I bought 50 rnds of different SMKBTs in different brands. Federal, Nosler and Frontier, in 68-77 grn. Waiting for weather to break and my knees to heal somewhat. thanks |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 9:10:07 PM EDT
[#28]
I like my 1/12 thanks
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Posted: 1/19/2021 9:13:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We'd be shooting 1/9 twist barrels if it hadn't been for a need to stablize a LONG 5.56 Tracer in COLD arctic weather. Truth. 1 in 7 was about the tracer rounds ss109 is fine for 1 in 9. If all you ever shoot is 55 grain like most people then 1 in 12 is ideal. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 10:50:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Several years ago I helped coach our counties 4-H High Power team before they made the annual trek to Camp Perry. I laid out a 600 yd. range at my house for them to use for Prone Slow practice. Someone donated Hornady 75 gr. BTHP ammunition for them to use. The coach told me that you just never knew about the 1/9" twists where bullet stabilization and the 75 gr. HP's was concerned; some rifles would stabilize them, some wouldn't. He surmised that some of the 1/9" barrels could've actually been 1/8.5" or 1/8.75", but who knows. But I did watch these kids shoot 75 gr. bullets out to 600 yds. with 1/9" twists.
The only two AR's I own in 5.56 are both Delton kits with 1/9" barrels; a 16" and a 20". My go-to handload uses a 69 gr. Sierra Matchking and both rifles shoot the bullet very well. These are all 200 yd. targets from after I completed the builds and was sighting the rifles in.     Obviously the 1/9" twist handles the 69 gr. bullets well. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:00:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Today's world, what does that matter? Twist rates aren't a fad or fashion.
Either you shoot heavier bullets through the rifle or you don't. My HD rifle is 1:9, all I shoot through it are 55s, my LR rifle is 1:7, I mostly shoot 90s through it, but some 55s too. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:00:35 PM EDT
[#32]
A few years ago, my son was consistently ringing steel on 1/2 size torso targets at 860m with my 1/9 20" Bushmaster; prone with a crappy bipod and shitty glass - and he'd never shot beyond 100 yds before.
75 gr BTHP Match. I think you'll be fine. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:08:24 PM EDT
[#33]
1/9 is fine with 62, even 69 grain bullets.
Some of them will shoot ok with 77, but it’s on the edge of stability. I’ve always wanted a Colt 6921. A heavy 1/9 carbine is just so right for burning up cheap 55gr. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:09:37 PM EDT
[#34]
My Colt 6721 has proven accurate with 55-64 grain.
It’s heavy and I’m building a 1:7 FN CHF upper work a free float but I won’t get rid of the 1:9 |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:11:46 PM EDT
[#35]
68-69 and lower should work fine. 75-77 will open up a bit, but practical accuracy shouldn't be effected until you are will past normal carbine shooting distances, if at all.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:12:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1/9 is fine with 62, even 69 grain bullets. Some of them will shoot ok with 77, but it's on the edge of stability. I've always wanted a Colt 6921. A heavy 1/9 carbine is just so right for burning up cheap 55gr. I have an old RRA heavy carbine in 1/9 that makes cheap ammo fun to blast up. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:16:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not a fast enuf twist. i have one and at 100 yards the 55 grain Wolf bullets come in sideways. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:20:02 PM EDT
[#38]
I would never buy a new one but I wouldn't shitcan an existing RRA, especially if it's a good shooter. Stupid heavy barrels, though.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:24:53 PM EDT
[#39]
1x9 is for the Poors shooting obsolete guns. None of the Operators in Extraction, Triple Frontier or Zero Dark Thirty use 1x9. It's literally, your funeral and cremation.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:47:11 PM EDT
[#40]
My main shooter is an 'old' RRA with a 1:9 heavy chrome lined barrel. Shoots 55gr just fine. A bonus is I can actually hurt someone buttstroking them with it.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:53:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We'd be shooting 1/9 twist barrels if it hadn't been for a need to stablize a LONG 5.56 Tracer in COLD arctic weather. 1/9 is better for 55 grain & most 62 grain (which is what 87% of all AR shooters us) than 1/7 which only comes into play with the 68 - 75 grain heavy weight bullets. Interesting that a lot of the non-NATO 5.56 users went with 1/9 twist. The FAMAS, AUG, Beryl, and AK-101 are all 1/9. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:56:05 PM EDT
[#42]
No.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:58:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 90's, made in Windham Bushmaster 16" 1:9 is a tack driver with M193 Same and with m885 |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:59:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Several years ago I helped coach our counties 4-H High Power team before they made the annual trek to Camp Perry. I laid out a 600 yd. range at my house for them to use for Prone Slow practice. Someone donated Hornady 75 gr. BTHP ammunition for them to use. The coach told me that you just never knew about the 1/9" twists where bullet stabilization and the 75 gr. HP's was concerned; some rifles would stabilize them, some wouldn't. He surmised that some of the 1/9" barrels could've actually been 1/8.5" or 1/8.75", but who knows. But I did watch these kids shoot 75 gr. bullets out to 600 yds. with 1/9" twists. They were DPMS 1:8s shooting 75gr AMAX. They measured about 8.3 and 8.5, IIRC. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:59:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Yall way overthink stuff sometimes.
Is it a .223/5.56 barrel? Do you have .223/5.56 ammo? If so, it has a place |
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Posted: 1/20/2021 12:07:56 AM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 1/20/2021 12:17:00 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting that a lot of the non-NATO 5.56 users went with 1/9 twist. The FAMAS, AUG, Beryl, and AK-101 are all 1/9. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We'd be shooting 1/9 twist barrels if it hadn't been for a need to stablize a LONG 5.56 Tracer in COLD arctic weather. 1/9 is better for 55 grain & most 62 grain (which is what 87% of all AR shooters us) than 1/7 which only comes into play with the 68 - 75 grain heavy weight bullets. Interesting that a lot of the non-NATO 5.56 users went with 1/9 twist. The FAMAS, AUG, Beryl, and AK-101 are all 1/9. American Exceptionalism in Action??  For shooting military ball ammo of the typical loads like 55 gr M193 & 62 gr M109 / M885 the 1/9 is better for accuracy. Had several 90's Bushmasters that people used to Rag on because they were 1/9 instead of 1/7 as Colt was doing. Buddy was very pissed then I clearly outshot him with my "Non-MilSpec" Bushmaster Vs. his Mil Spec Colt. 1/7 will still be minute of man with GI spec ammo of 55 or 62 grain, but it is just not optimum unless you are shooting LONG & Heavy 5.56 which sort of negates the best the advantage of 5.56 in terminal effects with light bullets at 2400 fps or higher. |
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Posted: 1/20/2021 12:30:12 AM EDT
[#48]
You wouldn’t notice any difference until around 500 yards out. At which point, you’re more likely to be the source of error rather than the twist rate pairing to a heavy (long) bullet.
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Posted: 1/20/2021 12:58:16 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd have no problems using a good quality 1/9 barrel. I mostly have 55 and 62 grain ammo. I wouldn't turn down a 1/9 Colt HBAR at the right price. They shoot 69 gr smk very well also. 
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Posted: 1/20/2021 1:00:23 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not a fast enuf twist. i have one and at 100 yards the 55 grain Wolf bullets come in sideways. Well shit! Guess I gotta get rid of all my 1/12 stuff now 
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