My '08 6.7 Cummins has been the best truck I've ever owned. I now wish it was long bed and had the new club sized cab but we'll be fine for a lot more years

So ol' Bassgasm wants a new Gladiator but can't afford  said Gladiator so now all Chrysler vehicles are junk? Is that about the size of what's happening here? Didn't I say that was the case for a lot of the Chrysler hate on page one of this thread?

None of the Big 3 made their own diesels for quite some time I suppose besides the 6.2/6.5 which weren't great and now Ford has hit a home run with the 6.7 Powerstroke.

I hold two opinions of the Gladiator:

1) It's the single coolest vehicle FCA has made in my lifetime.

2) It's not a good value.

Both can be true of the same time.

I'm not sure what "pattern" you're looking for, but whatever. Here's my vehicle list as someone who started driving around '04:

1992 Chevrolet Astro conversion van. Purchased for $600 at ~165k or so, traded in at 212k.
2001 Jeep Cherokee XJ. Purchased at 97k, canned at 110k after cylinder head failure.
2008 Nissan Titan. Purchased at 3k, learned an E-4 couldn't afford 2k+ miles per month at 14 MPG, traded in at 18k.
2009 Honda Civic. Purchased at 7k, totaled at 100k after a guy ran a stop sign.
1994 Mazda Miata. Purchased at 94k, has 101k, still own it.
2014 Mazda3. Purchased brand new, drove it 20k, loved it but needed a truck.
2014 Ford F-150. Purchased at 50k, has 85k, still DD'ing it.

For bonus points, there are two vehicles that I purchased for a family member and spent time driving:
1999 Chevrolet Astro AWD. Purchased at 91k, traded at 160k.
2002 Honda CR-V Purchased at 181k, still own it.

All of these have weird overlap as I've never owned less than 2 vehicles at a time.

My next vehicle is probably going to be another F-150. Not because I think it's some superior vehicle or something, but rather because I think the aluminum body is a great idea in a salt state and I because value efficiency. If neither of these were true, the 5th gen Ram 1500 would be at the top of my list. The 5.7L Hemi is okay, the ZF 8HP is looking like it might be the best transmission in the segment, and Ram has reset the bar for interior refinement and ride quality. I also have a weird curiosity for the 3.0L Duramax Silverado.

Im guessing your cherokee was a 4.0? That is a freak thing for one of those to die early like that. Mine in the 87 comanche is at 230k and runs like a top still. Like most I6 they are pretty diehard.

I'm not looking for a pattern, I'm looking for some verifiable experience you have with all of these vehicles you routinely expound on as if you are some type of authority.

I see you don't have any, so carry on.

I'm saying Chrysler has a reputation for questionable at best quality because Chrysler has a reputation for questionable at best quality. Every quantifiable thing in the industry supports that perception.

Here's a fun one... For roughly the same price I paid for my used F-150, I could have bought a brand new Ram 1500. Being fully aware of that fact, I still chose the Ford because I didn't trust the Ram. Knowing what I know now, a Hemi 8 speed Ram probably would have worked out, but I don't regret my decision.

What someone can "afford" is a debatable concept in today's world. There's also a matter of priorities. I bought way too much house for a single dude because I liked it and I felt it was a good investment. That's where much of my money goes. I also eat out probably 90% of my meals because cooking/cleaning at home or eating sack lunches at work isn't often very appealing. I also have expensive hobbies (what site is this?). If I wanted to change any of those things, I could make vehicles a higher priority and spend more on them.

Also, a huge percentage of new vehicle owners are driving around with 72+ month notes. I'm not willing to do that.

I have a 1931 still on the road.

Dodge is generally what the people around them do because the owners drive like assholes. Anymore I just view it as a safety warning sticker.

It's just like the Tacoma frame rust thing. Neither me nor LoBo have owned one, but we both know it's an actual issue that happened. We don't need "verifiable experience" to know it's real.

I spend a shitload of time reading about things happening in the automotive industry. There are ~5 news/blog sites I check on a daily basis, I look at the major annual studies when they come out, and there's other TV/YouTube stuff I'm known to enjoy. I lurk on owner forums seeing what owners are experiencing and what they love or hate about their vehicles. I've read thousands of pages on f150forum, gm-trucks, and ramforum/5thgenrams.

I don't claim to know everything about everything, but I try to keep myself pretty well informed.

Bro, the best thing about that truck is the motor.
@Lug1

You know what sucks?  Cars from the late 70s and 80s.  That's what sucks.

So, no matter how bad anybody thinks X make/model is, just remember.... it could be worse. Much, much, MUCH worse.

Huh.  Alrighty then.

Ball joints

I've owned 95, '05 and '98 Rams over the years.  Nary a transmission or engine failure.  I've also had pretty good luck with the misc. Jeep, Pontiac, Toyota a 2 Chebbies I've owned.  I guess I'm extremely lucky.

Are you telling me you don't see the flaw in regurgitating what you have read on the internet as if it were gospel , while simultaneously ignoring what people who actually use a product are telling you on the same internet? Maybe you don't even realize you do this, but you do and it is annoying as fuck.

Go spend some time over on Gladiator forums, you'll find posts from me eviscerating FCA for letting some shit out of the door like they did/have/continue to do. Why? Because it's fucked up and I have actual first hand experience with it, that qualifies me to. I defend them where it's due, and call their ass out when it is also due. Jeep @JeepCares actually maintains a presence on that forum and offers assistance with the dealer network and satisfying their customers, that is meaningful.

I can tell you gorge on data, that's cool, but when you come plowing into every fucking thread, regurgitating what you read on the internet, not only does it get tiresome, but it also appears to betray an agenda (whether you actually have one or not).

Anybody who tells you Chrysler never made some shit is a bald faced liar, anybody who tells you that FCA is doing so today is either I'll informed or also a bald faced liar. Same applies to Ford and GM.

No, you don't have to own a product to be aware of very well known and specific problems that exist in them. You also don't have to own one to know that those specific problems do not represent an entirety of a product line.

Whatever, I just wanted to know if you had any actual experience with these vehicles and you answered my question.

The best thing about the truck is it's mine.

You can replace Dodge with Ford, Chevy or what ever maker and your statement is still spot on.

I have 2014 Charger w/ over 62,000 miles on it.  It's about time I get rid of it.  Already had the water pump replaced on it and the back passenger window switch is broken.

I rarely speak in absolutes, and I almost always use qualifiers in my speech (see what I did there?). I'm not saying all FCA products are bad. It's a game of statistics and probability.

I've never been robbed/attacked/murdered in a bad neighborhood, but without "any actual experience," I'm aware that there is an elevated risk of those things happening if I spend more time in a bad neighborhood. Alternatively, I know that if I were to restrict myself to living in a really nice gated neighborhood actively monitored by security and law enforcement, I still wouldn't be immune to being robbed/attacked/murdered. Those things still happen.

Crimes and fatalities are reported and tracked relatively well, and much of that data is publicly available. It's really easy for someone to put that information in a spreadsheet, import that into GIS, and make a map that shows where you really do not want to spend time. Mechanical failures in vehicles aren't reported much at all publicly. Manufacturers know what they are doing the most warranty jobs on, but outside of that, the next best bet is survey data. Those surveys can have weird outliers and anomalies, but there are certain trends that are corroborated across surveys.

Just to recap:





Both of these show the Koreans are better than most would guess, they both have Toyota, Lexus, and Audi with above average reliability, they both show Honda/Acura is slipping, and they both show the FCA and JLR brands near the bottom. Are there weird discrepancies? Sure. Why does the VDS have Chevrolet and Buick so far above GMC and Cadillac? Because that's a good question. But in general, there's a lot of supporting correlation.

The next best bet is what's observable in the world around you. I've never owned a GM truck/SUV, but I've seen a shitload of them driving around with burned out DRLs. Does that count as "actual experience" in your book? Or no? Because with or without actually having my name on the title, I think I've seen that happen enough to know it's a pattern.

Next in line is probably what's being discussed by owners. Things are even less scientific, but you can still draw some hypothesis about the severity of the problem depending upon the number of threads on that subject and the number of unique posters reporting the issue. Take the Gen3 Ford Coyote 5.0 oil consumption issue as an example. The F-150 and Mustang forums both have big threads on the subject. I don't know what the actual failure rate is, but I've seen enough to know I wouldn't want to roll the dice on one and that others should be at least warned to do some homework on the issue. Once a fix has been identified and verified, my message will transition from one of caution from all Gen3 Coyotes to those made between 2018-2019 or whatever year they fix it.

Honestly, individual experience might be the least useful because the sample sizes are too small. Both you and I had to replace 4L60s in our GM vehicles, but there's a member here that's a big GM fan that would argue and defend the 4L60. He can cite "actual experience" he's had with those transmissions in GM trucks/SUVs. Is he wrong? Are we wrong?

Which seems more irrational? Looking at all the data available and observing patterns? Or shouting "fake news" at the data because our own individual experiences don't line up perfectly?

For a different perspective, lets look at IIHS's driver fatality data...

"The overall driver death rate for all 2014 and equivalent models during 2012-15 was 30 deaths per million registered vehicle years."

Here are the values they have for crew cab 4x4s:
Tundra- 24
F-150- 24
Silverado- 35
Ram 1500- 55

Insurance data shows Ram drivers die at a significantly higher rate than those in Tundras, F-150s, or Silverados. Why? Are Ram 1500 pickups less safe, or do Ram 1500 drivers engage in more dangerous behaviors at a higher rate than their peers in competing models? Or is it a little of both?

What if we had the same quality of data for mechanical failures? Would you think those were due to design/production failures, or do you think it would be a difference in owner behavior?

HOLYSHITBALLS

Serious question, Bassgasm do you think you will ever be satisfied with any vehicle you buy?

If it doesn't have leaf springs it's junk.

Coil sprung solid front axles are the most maintenance intense front ends there is.  And sometimes they're not even good then.

Bain of the automotive industry.

LOL, what kind of maintenance do your coil springs require?

Damn.

das right leaf springs and KINGPINS get that ball joint junk outta here.

The New Ram 2500's have coil springs all they way around. That part of what makes them so good!

Track bars are the big thing.  Then ball joints, tie rod ends/draglink, pitman arm.

They are constantly wore out.  Junk.

You another ARF.com expert huh?

Your leaf spring FE has ball joints, Pitman, Idler arm, drag link and they too are wear items. If you are talking about the track bars and control arms wearing out, maybe so I've never had any wear out, but I have never started with a Jeep with 100k on it then beat the shit out of it.  The only difference is the spring type. The coil spring has no wear items, the leaf springs have two each, plus less articulation and much much much shittier ride. All of that completely discounts the four u bolts and 2 tie bolts that are all failure points.

Leaf springs are in no way superior to coil springs in the durability, ride or articulation departments.

Trick question? There's always room for improvement, and everything is a compromise. Sometimes, you find a sweet spot, and sometimes you don't.

If I had Jay Leno money and parking space, I'd buy a bunch of vehicles (including certain Mopars/Chrysler products) to play with on different occasions. But for day to day life as a regular guy, it's about trying to find the right blend of practicality, fiscal responsibility, fun, and comfort. I think I'm doing it right enough, but I sometimes think about what I could do different.

It's also weird to think about what has worked out well by the numbers versus what I've gotten more interesting experiences out of.

For example, the best vehicle I've ever owned, on paper, was the Civic. In the six years between me driving it off the lot and it being totaled, I didn't need to fix anything. Not even a light bulb. The car was always there for me, and it got me through my GI Bill years on the cheap. But the interior wasn't a nice place to be sitting in traffic or on long trips, and front wheel drive, a 4 cylinder, and an automatic transmission isn't exactly a recipe for fun. Not only was it neither comfortable nor fun, but it didn't have any added capabilities that let me do things with it I couldn't do with any other basic car. Most of my memories with that car are just driving. There are a few good memories mixed in, but it's mostly just boring.

At the other end of the spectrum is probably the Astros. Those vans were, objectively, not very good. Both needed transmissions, both needed rear end work, and both needed a series of minor repairs. Between the repairs and the fuel, they weren't actually all that cheap to operate. But the amount of good memories I have associated with them is crazy. There was lots of camping, tailgating, nights out, moving... things like that. They weren't fun to drive in the traditional sense, but there are fun memories of doing things people wouldn't expect a van to do. There was something endearing about those vans, and I wouldn't have done it differently if I had the opportunity. I loved those turds, and I still miss them.

The F-150 is a good compromise so far. Yes, it's thirsty, and no, it's not fun to drive. But it's good for all the camping, tailgating, and other fun outings kind of stuff, it's been essential for some projects/tasks, it's a decent place to spend time when stuck in traffic, and it's been reliable so far. My biggest problem with it so far is road cancer, but that's largely my fault for buying a lease return from Michigan. I learned my lesson. But I like it enough that I'll probably get a newer, somewhat different version of the same thing, and I'm open to competing brands. I now have an appreciation for why CCSB half tons are so popular. I didn't get it before, but now I do.

Maybe this is a more useful perspective to look at Chrysler products from...

From a math and logic perspective, Chrysler products are usually never the right answer, and their attempts at basic transportation are among the worst vehicles they've ever built. Sebring, 200, Caliber, and Dart? Gross.

But if you're going to throw math and logic out the window, say "fuck it," and buy something fun/different like a Wrangler, Power Wagon, or Challenger, that could be worth it if you actually use it in a way to get value out of it. Chrysler is better at the irrational stuff in a weird sort of way.

The most fun vehicle I've owned to date was the 1st gen Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8. It was a Steel blue 2008 model year. That thing was just flat out fun to drive! Stupid fast! It would literally kick its own ass out of the hole and slam your head back against the seat and keep it there when you mashed the loud pedal from a dead stop! It was all wheel drive so it would work reasonable well in the snow (meaning you could get by, as it was still very high performance oriented). And it had four doors so you can go down to the shopping center in it and haul stuff and whatever. I liked it better than my ram SRT-10 honestly. My only picks about it was it was a little crude in two ways.

Firstly It didn't had much if any sound deadening insulation in it. For whatever reason Chrysler cheeped out there. So it was a little loud road noise wise. And so you would hear the tires whining on the road. And it was full time all wheel drive and the drivetrain was a little noisy also. Particularly the Dana 44 rear end would whine on decelerations as you drove. There wasn't anything wrong with it. It was just sorta a hotrod of a vehicle and those where part of it's characteristics. I always meant to take the carpet out of it and put dynamat in it. That would have fixed a lot of the cabin noise issues.

Secondly. It had staggered tires on it front to rear. So you could only rotate the tires side to side and not front to rear. And it was set up to be a hotrod from factory so it had aggressive alignment settings. So tires lasted about 15- 20K miles and the was it! (I pretty sure Chrysler fixed that on the second gen and they keep the same size tires at all four corners).

Third. It got 13 MPG. And Thats it. Ram Srt was the same. I immediately knew when the switch to ethanol fuel in my area happened because my milage immediately dropped from 15 mpg ave. to 12-13 ave. in the SRT Ram.

But other then that the Jeep was fun fun fun! It was such a sleeper and you could fuck with people so bad with that thing! If you could live with what I just described to you I might suggest if you could find a clean low milage 1st gen. for around 20 thousand dollars. Or maybe an early Gen 2 with low milage in mid 20's price range. Not sure what the used market really is on them right now. As I do think the second gen are much improved with the issues I described. Or maybe you could consider an SRT Durango. There is just so much bang for the buck with the SRT SUV's! And again they are just uber fun! I would look for low milage cream puffs of either of those..

My current SRT is a 2009 srt8 Challenger with a kennel bell supercharger. Makes 600 hp at the wheels. Thats about 30 short of a new hellcat. That car has been flawless. Its as tight as a drum! No squeaks no rattles. It rides as smooth as glass. And its bullet proof. I've beat the shit outta that one pulling Brodies and power shifting it and just all around abuse it. And not so much as a whimper. I Love that Car! And it has LONG LEGS out on the interstate.  It will outrun about damn near anything on a long straight section of interstate highway and 170 mph is no problem! The first gen Jeep was about a 155 MPH vehicle.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

seems like there were some bad cylinder head castings used on the 00-01 4.0's that sucks because usually the motor is pretty bulletproof.

Move
Over
People
Are
Racing

that is awesome but I don't think I like the color on front of the splitter

ok sweet . do the chargers come with a manual?

ok sweet . do the chargers come with a manual? My cousin got one of the GC's with the hellcat motor in it, I wanna ride in it

Love mine.

Keeping those shipping protectors on has turned into somewhat of a fad, and Dodge's design crew hates it. So they're changing the color from yellow to some un-cool shade of violet.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/30157/srt-design-boss-wants-dodge-challenger-charger-owners-to-take-off-their-splitter-guards

Consumer Reports gave the 2019 Dodge Ram 1500 an overall score of 64 out of 100, which is neither great nor horrible. Compared to other full-size pickups in its class, its overall score ranks second among the competition. Though an overall score of 64 isn’t the best, it beat out other trucks like the 2019 Toyota Tundra, Chevrolet Silverado, and Ford F-250.

I agree with this statement. The newer SRTs are starting to make so much power that a manual trans is no longer practical. My kenne bell challenger is a 6 speed manual and it can be a little bit of a hand full! It certainly not for a novice driver any longer. An auto would be more manageable in stop and go traffic in the car's current state of tune...

Hey Bubba.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Jeep-Grand-Cherokee-SRT8-NAV-PANOROOF-4WD/202765875266?hash=item2f35c9b842:g:7mQAAOSwIA9dZZ3T

Every demographic will have a brand or brands to drive, economics demands it. Dodge is for the poor and stupid

My wife's has been a nightmare. Nonstop issues. You have to take a tire off to change the damn battery.

Charger/Challenger 392s are the only FCA vehicles worth buying.