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User Panel
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Posted: 10/22/2018 7:18:38 PM EDT
[#1]
From BATFE: "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide", ATF Publication 5300.4
You can read it for yourself here: https://www.atf.gov/file/11241/download "Out-of-business records under Records in the index: Law: 923(g)(4) Regulations: 478.127 |
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Posted: 10/22/2018 7:42:55 PM EDT
[#2]
Go ahead. Tell them to FO. Then destroy those records to show them your distain ! Golf clap !
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Posted: 10/22/2018 9:17:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go ahead. Tell them to FO. Then destroy those records to show them your distain ! Golf clap ! 
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Posted: 10/23/2018 10:18:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From BATFE: "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide", ATF Publication 5300.4 You can read it for yourself here: https://www.atf.gov/file/11241/download "Out-of-business records under Records in the index: Law: 923(g)(4) Regulations: 478.127 -------------------------- 27 CFR 478.127 Discontinuance of business. Where a licensed business is discontinued and succeeded by a new licensee, the records prescribed by this subpart shall appropriately reflect such facts and shall be delivered to the successor. Where discontinuance of the business is absolute, the records shall be delivered within 30 days following the business discontinuance to the ATF Out–of–Business Records Center, 244 Needy Road, Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405, or to any ATF office in the division in which the business was located: Provided, however, Where State law or local ordinance requires the delivery of records to other responsible authority, the Chief, Federal Firearms Licensing Center may arrange for the delivery of the records required by this subpart to such authority: Provided further, That where a licensed business is discontinued and succeeded by a new licensee, the records may be delivered within 30 days following the business discontinuance to the ATF Out–of–Business Records Center or to any ATF office in the division in which the business was located. |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 10:20:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go ahead. Tell them to FO. Then destroy those records to show them your distain ! Golf clap ! 
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Posted: 10/23/2018 12:39:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Hello, ATF? We had this hurricane that destroyed the ground floor where my records were kept . . . " the relocation of explosives magazines and records from business premises to a safe location; or the removal of firearms and ammunition inventory, ATF Forms 4473 and 3310.4; and acquisition and disposition records from business premises to a safe location. https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/guidance-disaster-preparedness-federal-firearms-licensees-and-federal-explosives-licensees https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/disaster-preparedness-federal-firearms-licensees-atf-p-33177/download https://www.nssf.org/ffl-disaster-prepardness-plan-its-never-to-early-to-be-ready/ |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 1:14:29 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Hello, ATF? We had this hurricane that destroyed the ground floor where my records were kept . . . " He was a small time, kitchen table dealer back in the day when you could do that without much of a hassle. I was the one that wrote the letter to the ATF. Told them that there was no inventory and that the 4473s and bound book were literally "gone" and asked them for guidance. Also said he was turning in his licence and discontinuing the business but did not have the hard copy of his licence to send them. He dies two years later having never received a reply from ATF. |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 8:42:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A disaster preparedness plan should be established by all FFLs and FEL/FEPs to safeguard their businesses by protecting explosives, firearms, and required records. If necessary, licensees and permittees should take precautionary steps by contacting their local ATF field office regarding: the relocation of explosives magazines and records from business premises to a safe location; or the removal of firearms and ammunition inventory, ATF Forms 4473 and 3310.4; and acquisition and disposition records from business premises to a safe location. https://www.atf.gov/news/pr/guidance-disaster-preparedness-federal-firearms-licensees-and-federal-explosives-licensees https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/disaster-preparedness-federal-firearms-licensees-atf-p-33177/download https://www.nssf.org/ffl-disaster-prepardness-plan-its-never-to-early-to-be-ready/ And some of us are better at contingency planning than others. And as we all know, "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry." |
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Posted: 10/23/2018 8:46:01 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Should" not "shall". That's a big difference. With that said, Tornados are predicable events giving you days to evacuate. |
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Posted: 10/24/2018 12:48:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Common sense Should not have to be Shall. With that said, |
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Posted: 10/28/2018 11:34:56 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Law: 923(g)(4) Regulations: 478.127 |
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Posted: 10/28/2018 12:20:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bonus Question: What is the penalty for violating 18 U.S. Code § 923(g)(4) and/or 27 CFR 478.127? |
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Posted: 10/28/2018 4:29:09 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Common sense Should not have to be Shall. With that said, Tornados are predicable events giving you days to evacuate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Should" not "shall". That's a big difference. With that said, Tornados are predicable events giving you days to evacuate. It has a very specific legal meaning and force. |
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Posted: 10/28/2018 10:06:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
'Shall" sets up conditions that MUST be performed in CFR and CFAR. It has a very specific legal meaning and force. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Should" not "shall". That's a big difference. With that said, Tornados are predicable events giving you days to evacuate. It has a very specific legal meaning and force. Should and shall are not mandatory per the federal government rather they imply guidance. |
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Posted: 10/28/2018 10:21:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
'Shall" sets up conditions that MUST be performed in CFR and CFAR. |
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Posted: 10/29/2018 1:11:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/plain_language/articles/mandatory/ Should and shall are not mandatory per the federal government rather they imply guidance. I do not remember the Spec spec that says how to write equipment specifications but it defined the use of shall and will explicitly. The government will, the contractor shall. |
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Posted: 10/31/2018 1:20:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Hello, ATF? We had this hurricane that destroyed the ground floor where my records were kept . . . " |
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Posted: 11/1/2018 12:16:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/plain_language/articles/mandatory/ Should and shall are not mandatory per the federal government rather they imply guidance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Should" not "shall". That's a big difference. With that said, Tornados are predicable events giving you days to evacuate. It has a very specific legal meaning and force. Should and shall are not mandatory per the federal government rather they imply guidance. Nothing else. A single Federal agency can not affect rules for other Federal Agencies or laws. Sh|t cannot be made to flow uphill no matter what the FAA wants. |
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